Bribing...
 

Hi all,

After reading a lot of post where it is commonly mentioned that someone had to bribe someone to do something, I wanted to say my thoughts about this...

I (we) have travelled quite a bit and NEVER EVER bribed anyone to get something done.

Please, before continuing reading, I don't want to start a war, I don't want this thread to become an issue, to have impolite or accusative posts etc. I want to stress something that makes me sad when I get confronted to this issue (by reading about it) and I just hope that I am not the only one here.

Honestly, I get angry and disappointed when I read that people (especially motorcyclist!!!) offered money to the police, customs officer or whoever was in an official capacity to get something done or not done.

Get some selfrespect and try to get out of it without paying if the person is clearly after money. Now I know that some will say "there was no other way" but I'm pretty sure that in 99% of the cases there was but you just didn't know or wanted to see another way.

I won't even tell my tricks to get out of it, but the one I heard from a fellow traveller a few weeks ago that i really really liked; this is the story in short:

He gets pulled over, the policeman want money for whatever reason and shows him the "international sign" for 'give me money' behind the bikers license so the cop's boss can't see it. The biker pretends he doesn't know what the cop wants and after a few awkward minutes he just takes his helmet off, goes to a bench, takes out his cigarettes and lit ones up still pretending not to understand what the cop wants. They both knew exactly what was going on so it was just the game of who would win.
Since you're traveling you have more time than the cop who's shift will end in X hours, so play this out like he did. After another 5 minutes the boss came to see what was going on, asked the cop what the problem was and he said that there wasn't, they were just smoking a cigarette together. He finished his cig, gave one to both cops and they even warned him where the next speedtrap was. Bribe? Two cigarettes and the information on how not to get fined 30k's further down the road... good deal I would think.

What I want to explain with this, is that if he would have given the money, he would have get fined again later on and the next in line coming that way (maybe you?) would also have to pay, and so on.

Now I am not foolish enough to know that we won't solve all the bribing problems around the world, but it would make me a lot happier if at least I could read reports of people like him getting out of it more times than reading questions about where you'll need to pay a bribe etc. As stated, up to this day I have never ever paid a bribe and I don't think I will ever. It would just be better if people tried harder not to pay instead of expecting to pay and just argue about the amount. I think that a big part is in your attitude how to resolve the 'problem' with the bribing agent, they'll just try as you're a rich foreigner in their eyes.

I can give a lot of examples where I (we) got pulled over etc but I think the best way was to use someone else's story (not to be selfish...:innocent:) to illustrate that it can be done, if you just want to try it instead of immediately taking your cash out to solve the "problem". Show some balls, if you are SURE that you didn't do anything wrong of course...

(ps; I'm now traveling again and won't have internet for a few days probably, but be sure I will look at this once I can again!)

Admirable stuff and I wouldn't argue with any of that personally.

However, it has to be borne in mind that in some parts of the world there is a culture of "bakhshee" - it is not seen to be a bribe as such, but more the way that everyone gets by in what may be a difficult economic situation.
Within such cultural conditions, the one-off situation of crossing a border or dealing with a speed trap is just that - "one off" and no big deal in the bigger scheme of things.

You say this, and yet below...

You don't want to have impolite or accusative posts and yet you "get angry" when you hear about something you don't like, tell people to "get selfrespect", and how sure you are that 99% of the time someone just wanted to pay a bribe.

Honestly--not to be impolite or accusative--I find your post very patronizing.

I'm really glad that you never ever pay bribes during your various journeys through exotic places, good for you. But I've got plenty of self-respect, good judgment, balls, and experience, and will do what I consider appropriate at the time, regardless of whether you get angry or disappointed or whatever.

Have a nice trip.

I´ve lived in Mexico City for 37 years. One thing is going through a place as a tourist and another is living in a corrupt country. I very rarely get stopped on my bike but it happens sometimes. I can normally get away with whatever I have done by talking and explaining my way out of it. Once in a while that is not possible and I may get a ticket or end up giving a bribe. I always feel terrible when bribing someone but reality is that it is a way of life.
Around 20 years ago I was stopped because my plate was out of date. I explained that I had several bikes and had spent many days trying to get plates for all of them. I then said that if the cop could help me get the plate that would be great as I had run out of patience and given up. He said he had to impound the bike. I said that was fine but that I wouldn't give him any money. I thought he would let me go but we ended up at the pound. Twice on the way he asked me if I had changed my mind. I then spent 2 days getting a plate for the bike and paying fines and finally a bribe. All in all it cost me 10 times as much plus all the extra time. After that I decided that it is very difficult to beat a system that is so well set up.
In the cases where I have bribed someone I did something which I think is true in 99% of the cases. Why should you be allowed to get away with paying nothing like the case of your friend? Doesn't he feel bad about breaking the law?
I still don´t like it but it is how things are. It´s a bit like paying for a TV lincence in the UK, totally stupid but it´s the way things are.

Motoreiter; I don't think you got my message this time my friend... It looks like you took this one personal and this I find strange.
I don't want to have people respond to specific cases like 'i wouldn't have bribed in that case' etc.
I think it is a shame that some people (most of the time us, EU citizens) think it is normal to bribe or to suggest or to "automatically" offer a bribe without trying not to. That's what I mean. Two weeks ago we saw this and it made me angry, yes, in real not on a forum. We got pulled over, (for no reason) and after we just negotiated that there was nothing wrong and that the cop didn't had any legal basis to inflict us a "fine" another biker stopped also (it was a checkpoint) and just asked the cop how much he wanted... Yes this makes me wonder and yes I think that he could have been more tactful at least...
The guy is no way a HU member... I'm sure of that... :nono:
So I am not really sure why you seem to take this one so harshly?

I agree, but I wasn't especially reflecting on those areas, maybe I had to be more clear in my original post, but I wanted to generalize without mentioning countries or specific regions to avoid a 'yes-no' possible debate.

My post is a reflection on the maybe limited places I have been, sorry, I haven't been to Mexico yet and I haven't been to black Africa, so I can't possibly say anything about those places but I just think that some of the tourists are bribing to easely. That's it.

Of course it is different when you live in a corrupt or difficult system, I can try to understand that. My idea/post is about when you are traveling and doing nothing wrong and doing it all how it should be done.

Sorry if I came across as harsh, but it is one thing not to pay a bribe in the situation described above, which I agree is stupid and cowardly, and quite another to say that one should never ever pay a bribe, for the reasons well described by garydymond. I have lived in Moscow for many years and these days am very rarely asked for a bribe, especially if I haven't done something wrong. If I am asked for a bribe in those cases I don't pay, because usually I just laugh and tell them "I don't think so" and that's it.

Let me give you a story from many years ago, however. One night many years ago I was coming back to Moscow from out of town, and had not been drinking. I was pulled over for speeding (in an unmarked construction zone...) and the cop said he thought I'd been drinking and that I had to come with him to a rural medical clinic to have a blood test. Besides the couple of hours that it would have cost me (late at night), I was rather concerned about the potential for unsanitary needles, etc. at this rural clinic and had absolutely no intention of having my arm stuck with a dirty needle. So after about half hour of arguing with this ***** without him giving an inch, I paid him some money. I was absolutely furious--not ashamed--but there you have it. But that is one of only very very few times that has happened during ten years of living in Russia.

So if you are saying it is stupid to pay a bribe just because someone asks for one, I totally agree. If you are saying you should never pay a bribe, under any circumstances, that's very commendable, but very difficult if you are living in a place like Russia.

There used to be a licence required for car radios in Belgium; when I lived there back in the 90s no one paid it; even though everyone knew that new cars were delivered as standard with radios fitted, it was just denied to the tax people that the new car actually had a radio.
Pedal bikes also had a tax disc: my boss let me use his and it had this little metal plate thing attached - he was one of those few who had paid for his pedal cycle to be legal on the road.

Sometimes bribing is essential to get things done which you usuarly cant do like importing a bike into Peru wich is not registered on your own name. No cirarett will help you there but $10 "pa tu mujer" will do the job ;)

http://reisemotorrad.eu/?report=en_suedamerika

Of corse i dont waste money for stupid police man but i would love to be able to bribe in Europa too...the official fines are just too high. Bribes can make everything possible and turn Earth to Paradise :)

Well I generally agree that offering to pay bribes is stupid and pretending to not to understand is a great idea that works a lot of the time.

However sometimes you inadvertently pay them also, I was pulled over in Kaz for speeding after trying the no understand routine unsuccessfully, the officer started to write out the ticket, about halfway through he indicated it would be 1000 tenge, which I gave him and when he gave me my license back I realised I had paid a bribe.

As for ta-rider are you f'ing kidding? One of the reasons westerners have the wealth to travel is that our countries (for the most part anyway) function properly.

That was pretty much my thought about the paradise on earth comment.
Anyone who has experienced living in a corrupt country knows that it is not what the citizens of that country want, but they have little or no choice if they wish to survive day-to-day and make a crust for themselves and their family.

Passing through, as a traveller/tourist/adventurer whatever, produces a much less intense experience of what corruption actually is.

Spot on what I mean(t)!

There are cases/situations when one has to do what one has to do, but it's the almost "automatically" reflex that one 'ignorant' traveler could have that concerns me because he or she read about it that it is common practice.

Should have made this more clear in the original post (sorry, English is not my first language...)

Corruption is part of the fabric of society in many, many countries of the world. For example in Bangkok at certain times of the month (connected to their pay cycle) the police will start a traffic blitz booking people for the smallest infraction. You get the choice of wasting time paying at some office or pay the cop directly which boosts his personal income for the month. Locals suffer the same as tourists.

Or you pay a few bucks to some low paid worker to facilitate your movement through a border or whatever. If you want to spend hours arguing with some official over what is usually spare change for a western traveller to feel superior to those that pay it, thats your prerogative.

If your in a country where baksheesh is part of the culture, smile, pay it, get on with your day. Or stay at home and watch Nat Geo on cable. Far less aggravating for you.

I've been subject to overt claims to be bribed twice, once in the UK by a traffic cop who had gone through my logbook and found that I had too many unsigned sheets due to being away on the Continent for three weeks. I refused and copped a fine.

The other occasion was when importing a vehicle into Australia and the paperwork had been delayed due to holidays by public servants. "My problem" could go away if I paid a public servant to do her job. From then on all phone calls were recorded - which in itself is illegal, but who is going to solicit a bribe knowing they are being recorded!! I never paid up and she made my life very difficult for about two weeks.

Its not just Third World countries that have bribes - it just gets far more expensive once you get into First World countries. How often nowadays do you see a politician or civil servant at a sporting event, holiday resort or "education tour" all paid for by a lobby group. If its good for the top of the tree its good at the bottom seems to be the message that's coming out now.

Interesting topic Seb .... I have a couple of thoughts on this that are quite a different point of view.

While I absolutely would not accept bribing a police officer in my own country, my view in other countries is totally related to the local culture. If it is a normal process there, then I do feel that its culturally arrogant to not play by the local cultural rules.

I used to go to a bar I liked in the Moscow, and used to tip very well. The tip was not to make the barman happy, it was because the bar was often very crowded, and if that barman saw me, he would serve me first at a crowded bar, cause he knew he would get a big tip if he did that. I am paying money to get something done more quickly.

Is that me not having self respect?

I was paying for priority service. I was paying to have the process of buying a drink in a crowded bar sped up.

Some people pay for priority boarding on Easyjet.

I am happy to pay to speed up the process if I get caught speeding in Russia or Ukraine or Kazakhstan or wherever. The full process, of having a full ticket written out, going to a bank, queueing to pay the fine is long, slow and economically inefficient (it wastes half a day of your travelling time). Paying half the fine to the policeman on the spot saves my time, saves the banks customers time(they dont have to queue behind a wall of speeding fine payers) and saves the state the money it would need to pay the police if that process wasnt normal.

At the end of the day thats all anything in the economy is. Your employer bribes you to come to work. You bribe a plumber to fix your broken pipes. You bribe him more if he can come more quickly, serving you first, and leaving his other customers who arent willing to pay a premium to wait.

I think you need to define exactly what you mean by bribery and what is specifically negative about it in a case by case basis.

I used to take clients out to nice restaurants so that their firm would deal with me and not a competitor. Investment banks take clients to the Monaco Grand Prix - it isnt cause they like them. Its cause they are trying to manipulate their choices by the application of money.

Corporate entertainment is bribery, pure and simple. You offer expensive gifts and services (but theoretically not money) to encourage an individual who works for another entity, to make that entity spend money with your entity. You are trying to affect that persons choice by means that have nothing to do with the quality or price of the product or service you are offering. - You are trying to affect the outcome, and what you are offering is personal enrichment. i.e. bribery.

Thats something that is a keystone of western business, yet is 100% bribery. Why is western style bribery acceptable and eastern style bribery not?

what concerns me in this story is no one seems to care whether or not the guy has broken the law. If he was pulled over by the police, its not for something or another. Its cause he was caught speeding, or he crossed a white line or some other breach of the traffic laws. Or possibly for no reason. But it is relevant. You actually implied he was pulled over for speeding. If he was pulled over cause he broke the law, and he made life difficult for the cop to get out of paying a fine (whether to the cop or to the state) then HE is the guy who has no morals in my book. If he was speeding, and he knew it, then he was just trying to weasel out of a penalty that he genuinely deserves. He broke the law ... AND he was caught doing it. Thats plain and simple. He broke the law and he was pulled over for it by local cops. Natural justice implies he owes someone somewhere a penalty. You can argue all you like about who and where, but him trying to get out of it is him trying to get out of a perfectly just and fair penalty, for being caught breaking the law.

I strongly disagree with the notion of western superiority. That because our police are less corrupt than in other parts of the world, then we can ignore local rules, local police and act as if we have impunity. I think thats cultural arrogance.

While we are on cultural arrogance, I think its important to recognise there is more than one culture in the world. I think its not credible to say one culture or another is inherently superior to others. We might do things differently in the west, but when we travel to these countries, we should accept the way things are done locally and not try to impose out culture. If you dont like eating dog meat, then there is no point going to Korea and complaining about it. If you are female and want to sunbathe topless, then dont go to Iran or the USA.

If you go to Russia / Ukraine / Kazakhstan etc, then I think you have to accept the system works a certain way. The speed traps are not there to catch foreigners. They are not biased against foreigners. A radar catches all people equally. They catch locals and they catch foreigners - equally. The locals pay the fines a certain way. In the back of the cop car. Its the system. Why do you think as a foreigner you dont have to? What makes a westerner immune to following the system? What makes a westerner able to speed, and think he doesnt have to pay fines, when the local have to when they get caught. Does the westerner think he is a superior human being? Above local laws? Above the local system?

I think its very easy to fall in to the habit of thinking "everyone should be like us". "Everyone should do things the way we do". I think its a dangerous way of thinking. And I think its culturally imperialist.

If certain countries are going to change the way they do things, its for THEM to change their system, from within. Its not for us to travel to other countries and feel that "this is the way I demand to be treated". You are in their country. You are not entitled to be treated as anything superior to how they treat locals. You are not special nor do you have more rights because you are a foreigner.

As for us, the travellers, I feel its for us to either accept their system as it is, or not go there.

Well thats what they do in Germany too:

http://www.rundschau-online.de/aus-a...,23117630.html

There it a road strait and wide like a highway. Then they put up a sign 60 km/h and start charging people who are faster but you cant say "ok offiver here you get 10 bugs please dont make me loose my licence and with this my job too for not harming anybody"...in this situations i would love to bribe. The Police is not only a problem in poor countrys...

Walter, a couple of obvious points:

First, in a lot of "corrupt" places (by which I specifically mean corrupt by Western standards), local people are as offended by this corruption as any of us. The concept of "corruption" being bad doesn't originate among clueless Western tourists who can't relate to other cultures.

Second, a lot of the "corruption" I've experienced does specifically target foreigners like ourselves. It's not an integrated part of local culture; it's an add-on, corresponding to precisely nothing in local terms.

FWIW, I pay when that's the locally-accepted penalty for being caught breaking the law--and when I have in fact broken that law. And I tip when expected to tip by local custom--that can include payments which are sometimes called "baksheesh" or "bribes." Even so, local custom usually includes a period of bargaining--kicking and complaining and whining for all your worth before perhaps capitulating to some minor sort of payout. People who blithely pay whatever is first demanded because they figure that's the way things are done in exotic locales are doing nobody any favors, and they're certainly not participating in local customs.

I will also pay a bribe when I feel genuinely in danger. That's happened exactly once in all my travels, in the middle of the night at a deserted outpost in an African country about to descend into a particularly nasty civil war. Even then, I bargained the guy down, that being what was expected (and being done on all sides of me by the locals).

It's possible we're describing different cultures, all else aside. I'm most familiar with Africa and the Americas; you may be thinking primarily of areas of Europe and Asia. Or not: what do I know? But I think it's worth considering: the rest of the world doesn't operate according to Kazakh or Ukrainian customs any more than it does by Euro or North American standards.

Mark

Mark - I focussed my answer on That area in particular as Seb, the OP, is currently in Mongolia, having just travelled through Ukraine Kazakhstan and Russia - thus its reasonable to assume that area played a strong part in the post. Its also the area where most of my first hand knowledge of such practises originates.

I don't disagree that local people may hate some aspects of corruption. But as I said its up to them to change it rather than for us, as temporary visitors in their country, to demand to be treated differently. I would add that in the countries I mentioned where traffic police can be negotiated with, while the public may hate those traffic police, very few would want to scrap it for full fines and penalty points that result in drivers losing their licences for three minor offences in the previous 5 years like we have in the UK.

I also agree with you that being singled out for larger fines as a foreigner is not something I can generally tolerate. Thus it pays to know local customs, and what's normal fines and practices for dealing with them for locals in that area. I have written posts before describing the usual practice in those countries above and the typical fines associated with certain offences so that people have some idea but to be honest I am surprised it doesnt come up more often.

Again tho my key point is why should a foreigner get different treatment to a local? The example given in the OP was of a guy pulled over for speeding. So thats the example I am working with. At the end of the day, the guy in the example broke the law and he was caught. Why is it unreasonable that he be penalised exactly as a local would be?

I had a number of cases of overt demands for money whilst in Kazakhstan. On two of those occasions I hadn't done anything to warrant it (ie hadn't broken the law) for me those were the occasions that pissed me off. The other times I did what I would normally do, try to talk my way out it.

Walter some of the "Western Style" bribery you mention offends me just as much any Eastern corruption and is just as bad IMHO.



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True, BUT:

I never implied (at least that wasn't the purpose) that a foreigner should get another treatment, quite the opposite.

What makes me "angry" (it's a bad choice of word, I can see that now) is that if I get pulled over for no reason, I didn't brake any law, and it is expected that I pay. That's something that I won't do. If anybody think then that I am 'above' the locals or anything, I disagree. I will not pay a "toll" just for passing by, because that's it in the end. And yes, maybe I am alone thinking this, but I've been a cop for the last 10 years and I won't give any "bribe" because I just happen to be passing by and being a foreigner. If I did something wrong, or don't have the right papers or need to speed things up or whatever that's a complete other discussion. That I apparently opened even if it wasn't my goal with my first post :(

So let me refrase my first post to this:

Honestly, I get "angry" and disappointed when I read that people (especially motorcyclist!!!) paid a bribe to the police for no reason whatsoever. If you broke a law it's your choice to pay the official or unofficial fine, but paying just because you are there for no reason is something that I will never ever do.

I hope this is a bit more clearly, I am really tired and thinking A and writing B apparently, as even Kim (my wife) said that I meant something else than I wrote down... Anyway, I clearly mean paying for nothing because the other one has a uniform/badge/... my opinion.

@ Walter, you're more or less right about the region of which I am talking about, but I've been here last year also... so it's not a one time thing either. :thumbup1: And I am clearly well aware of the local habits, that's not the point. And I don't know if he was speeding or not, as he told me I thought not, but if he was it changes everything of course...

Need to make a clear distinction between getting pulled over for breaking a law (regardless of how trivial, and whether or not the locals do or don't obey that law) and getting pulled over to contribute to the officer's standard of living.

In the first case it is quite legitimate to try and talk your way out of it - and that happens all over the world on the assumption that the officer might give you a warning instead of a ticket - but if that fails then the correct fine has to be paid at the right place. What's to complain about?

Not legitimate to pay the officer a bribe to not write the ticket, if only because you are then breaking the law too.
In the last case, I have all the time in the world.

That said, there are always going to be situations where life or limb might be at stake, and in that case, nobody is going to expect everyone to follow a set of guidelines as to what to do or not to do.

That i totally agree with :)

And yes it does happen in KZ and UA that you can be pulled over for doing nothing wrong and asked for money. In my experience it doesnt happen in Russia anymore, and hasnt for 10 years or so. They (in RU) might pull you over and ask to check your documents, but only in KZ and UA have I had cops actually make up offences. In those cases obviously its a mind game. For a number of reasons, Ukraine and Kazakhstan are a lot more corrupt at that level than Russia.

Some russian friends have a policy ... tell (or make clear) to the cops that (1) you have plenty of time (2) you have no money (3) you are not afraid of pain.

Well if you break the law and get caught, why is the officers motives in pulling the trigger on the radar gun relevant to whether or not you deserve to pay some sort of a fine? :confused1:

I suspect in Russia and other countries, the police are paid a deliberately low income by the state because they are expected to supplement it via "tips". You are not so much supplementing his income by paying him, as you are part of the quota he needs to fulfil to feed his family.

If you dont want to legitimately get caught speeding, its pretty simple to avoid it. Either dont speed, or take back roads. Radar traps are only economically viable on well trafficked highways.

Traffic cops in Russia are not wealthy guys. They are pretty damn low in the food chain. They are not the Russians taking beach holidays in the South of France, or contributing to Jaguar / Range Rover's massive sales growth in Russia. Russia's is a rapidly growing economy where the average person has gone from an average income of 10% that of the west 12 years ago to 50-60% if the west now. Traffic cops are not part of that that dramatic rise. If you take away their supplementary income then the job becomes pretty close to non-viable.

Russian driving habits and traffic enforcement still has a long way to go. The state needs as many of them on the job as it can get. There is sometimes a contradictory set of complaints from foreigners in Russia ... that the standard of locals following traffic rules sux, and that traffic police's willingness to penalise them (the foreigners) for breaking the traffic laws sux. Its illogical to complain about both. The reality is that the locals do not follow traffic rules as critically as western drivers, which should mean we APPLAUD the traffic police for being out there enforcing the rules !

I still have plenty of occasions in Russian cities where I get cut off by drivers cutting across lanes or pushing in front at traffic lights when I am yelling in my helmet "where are the damn traffic cops?"

What's to complain about? Have you ever gotten a ticket in Russia? First of all you generally have to go to the bank and pay a fine, which would be no problem except for two minor details:
1) depending on the violation, often they won't let you take your bike until you can show your receipt, so you have to take a cab or some other form of transport;
2) unless you are in a city, you might need to go quite a long way to get to a bank, and then back to your bike;
3) penalties for some violations are very harsh; IIRC you can lose you license for six months for passing in a no passing zone (before you say that that sounds reasonable, you have to see all of the wide-open stretches of road in Russia which are no-passing zones).

all in all, it is a system designed to encourage drivers to settle things on the spot one way or another.

things are changing here, however, and I expect that pretty soon motorists will be able to instantly pay traffic fines from the roadside via mobile phone, and that will be a real game-changer.

In the meantime, as Colebatch says, it is just not common any more to be asked for a bribe in Russia if you haven't done anything wrong. In fact, in the last five years or so, I'm not sure it has happened to me even once. Therefore, if you are flashing cash every time you get pulled over in Russia you're certainly doing something wrong.

Well i think that is a pretty bold statement to make, if i feel a bride is needed i will pay it.

On one border crossing they started to strip my bags to check and at the top i had a pair of wrist protectors i never used and the guy searching was a big body builder type guy and thought they where for weight training and as i did not use them i gave them to him and he let me go saving me pulling all my crap out my bags and repacking

In another country at 3am i was riding well over the speed limit breaking the law and the police officer who pulled me over was right in doing so, i was in the wrong so instead of going into all the paper work a bride worked find. i was tired and just wanted to move on, he was happy and i was happy

I got to another border and i lost some paper work, this was sorted out quickly also.

If i break the law or i am missing some paperwork then why not? i am the one in the wrong so if i feel i need to sort this out quicker then i will

And as for getting pulled over just to get money of me i think it all depends how you act? i have so far traveled though 17 countries on my bike including the ones where these apparent harassing for money takes places. i think a firm handshake and smile does a lot and then i usually just stay awhile to shoot the shit.i was even drinking beer (one may i add) with the police after stopping to ask for directions.

Interesting thread.

I have worked extensively throughout Africa including that hotbed of corruption known as LAGOS (Nigeria). I have also survived the violent riot and rush of boarding the Lagos to London flight on many occasions. :(

I worked at the UK High Commission in Lagos and was a serving/warranted UK (Met) senior police officer.

In nearly 4 years of working in Lagos I never (not once) paid any OFFICIAL a bribe. That included the corrupt police force which has the annoying habit of placing roadblocks every few hundred yards on major highways.

My tactic was to plain REFUSE to pay. I used to ask to see their superior officer and this normally had the desired effect. If middle management were also corrupt, I would demand to see senior management.

I have had pistols & AK47's pointed at my head and have STILL refused to pay. doh

I admit to using my police warrant card / diplomatic passport a few times but this counted for almost nothing outside the UK.

The reason I refused to pay bribes in Lagos is simple - If I pay the bribe, I am doing all who pass after me a dis-service.

These thieves dressed in a uniform do NOT deserve a bribe. They are a shambles and a disgrace to their country.

That is not to say I haven't voluntarily paid locals to expedite a normally lengthy process. By this I mean use their local knowledge and experience to cut through laws and customs I'm not familiar with. I don't consider this to be a bribe because I am electing to use a service without coercion.

What I do object to is being held up at gun point or not being allowed to get on my way without first paying someone who has already been paid to do their job.

That all said, I have traveled through some borders where the border police get their wage from fleecing travelers.... In these instances I have had to relent.

I just hate being threatened. :helpsmilie:

Remember these thugs in uniform often treat innocent local people in exactly the same way. The local people are often just as pissed off with this bribery as you are! :nono:

I guess we all deal with subject the best we can. If you come away from a dangerous situation with you're life, then I suppose you dealt with it in the best way you could....

Only give a bribe if it's absolutely necessary and always try to resist (within reason).

Bribe
 

It is funny how people get mad when you use the term bribe , I travelled in many places around the globe and many times I have been ask to pay a fine "on the spot " I did pay some and refused many but when the situation get really bad and you are taking the risk to see your bike taken I cannot see why not paying a little fee to an underpaid policeman. In Africa this use to be pretty much necessary if you wanted to continue travelling in some cases , but more often if you are kind enough they will let you go . If I happen to speed or break any driving law while travelling I still try to get away with it but at the end I will avoid problems with official and pay the fine . A friend of mine argue too much with corrupt cops and end up sleeping in jail and still paying a fine .I noticed that faking not speaking the language works very well as they get tired of you very quickly. We all pay bribes , some are legal some are not that is my point of view ( just check some of the cost to enter or exit some countries or the difference between what a local pay for food and what you pay , its all normal to me)

There is a difference between paying someone to expedite a lengthy procedure and having a gun pointed at your head!

If you break one of their laws it's appropriate to pay a fixed fine. I don't see this as bribery at all it's natural JUSTICE.

Another aspect to this conversation is the fact that sometimes the amount of money being demanded / asked for is extremely small for Westerners. Personally I don't begrudge paying someone a bit over the odds just because I'm a (rich) Westerner. Often if you work it out you're only talking about a few miserly pence! :(

There is a HUGE difference between someone asking and an official demanding it and threatening to not complete his job role.

Although I never paid a bribe in Lagos, I often helped those less fortunate when it was right to do so....

It's a great pity that the New World Order (NWO) (capitalism) allows this situation to happen in the third world still.

I have found that the often dirt poor local people get the same treatment from these jumped up Nazis. The uniformed morons don't realise they are standing on top of the SAME pile of shit. dohdohdoh

I have found it's always the innocent dirt poor people who help out when you most need it....