Ben Laden Killed By Usa Army, Great News And Great Day !!!!!!!!!!
 

President Obama announced this some hours ago.

Lets see what happens now on.

Great News
 

The Globe will be a bit safer to ride now......but may be a little rocky at first !:thumbup1:

It will probably lead to a lot of reprisals.. White tourists in "trouble spots" should probably be a lot more wary.

Or maybe nothing will change at all. Someone will soon fill his boots...

Agreed!

I expect that the news will feature a few response attack over the coming weeks. I hope to be wrong, but...

I honestly think that these fundamentalist factions have been managing without OBL for some time and this, whilst symbolic for the US, will not change much on the ground....

Dark times... best go for a ride then....:scooter:

Agreed, although suspect Ted means wary rather than weary.
There again, the tourists may simply be a bit tired as well.

LoL... I should really speck my chelling !!

You expect to see something happen, a change perhaps, what change? Have a look around. The change started to happen long ago, the change in the world has been occuring for some time and continues to occur it started well before Bin Laden was even identified as the 'mastermind' of 9/11.

It is naive to think that one mans death will change the world, it's not in death that changes are made but in life in the life of the many that are still alive and affected by that death and many others of no lesser value. The families of 9/11 families that voted in Bush and supported the war sending troops to Iraq and Afghanistan. The changes in how locals of the countries now view westerners through the troops that have served there, the errosion of civil liberties in the west, the crack-down on airport security, the introduction of biometric passports, increased fees for tourist visas, increase security and background checks for buisness visas, the list goes on and on.

Are these not all changes? They affect us as travellers, do they not?

Yet we (USA, France, Germany, Britain, Italy, Australia to name a few) still vote in right wing parties that play on our collective fear of terrorism exaccerabted by media who do nothing but conjure stories full of hype. Where is the real journalism I ask?

A terrorist is one who instills fear on others, origin terror, to terrorise others in pursuit of an often political or ethnic goal or agenda.

If you fear them then they have succeeded. If you change your vote or travel plans because of one then they have already won.

Bin Laden won the battle but only time will tell whether terrorism will win the war.

...Rant over.

In my humble opinion, I believe that education is the key to change. Be the change that you want to see in the world.:smartass:

It's started already!
 

I was rudely awoken this morning to mortar alarms and the 'Phalanx' gun blasting into the sky at some crap time this am. Upon finding out 'Ole Osama' has been sent to the big flaming pit down below we realised why we will be diving into bunkers for a few mental days before it'll calm down.
My body armour and helmet are never far away and I have 2 days and a wake up before I get the hell out of here. I just hope the rockets and mortars don't hit the airport runway as the repair delay will piss me off no end!!

BTW.... I'm a security contractor in Iraq and just cos you don't see it on the news anymore doesn't mean it ain't 'appening!

I've just got all my new kit for the Tenere delivered to home and was the winning bidder for a 1985 XL600LMF Paris Dakar! I'm salivating over to take apart this summer.

So Osamas followers can go and F:censored:K themselves, I've got a fresh pack of smokes in the bunker and can wait it out for 72hrs, NO PROBS!! :thumbup1:

Navy actually, not Army
 

Navy Seals

Guess there will be some change....

I suspect that this was a revenge and political killing rather than a tactical one. Understandable possibly but surely an observe and monitor scenario would make more sense as now where and who is the designated successor and what sort of a command and control system does he have? Hi Geoff, looks like you're stuck in the Gulf for a while yet, hope you have better luck with your new bike. Ride safe.

Well, he managed to slip away almost 10 years ago in Tora Bora, so I guess they didn´t want to take that risk a second time. And remember they had no idea, what he might have up his sleeve this time - and also knew that he´d never ever be taken alive to court by the Americans. Few options left really.

Think the Pakistanis now need to answer some tough questions about his hiding place.

+1.

AQ is an ideology that gets franchised out and doesn't seem to have any particular command structure. The beeb was saying tonight that probably the first OBL knew about the atrocities in Madrid and London was on the TV/radio after the event.

Definitely worth being vigilant at home and abroad.

Chris

this is not the beginning and this is not the end. this is just the part of the show, that's it!!

what did change after saddam was hanged? nothing yea? and dozens of people are still dying everyday in this region. what has changed in egypt, or in tunisa? will the things be different after they catch or kill gaddafi? will the citizens of these countries live in a peaceful and democratic country?

democracy does not mean civilization. there is still no human rights in afganistan despite of large coalition force army.

after soviet russia has collapsed, world needed a second pole and a cyber enemy, reshape and re-share the energy sources like petrol, gas and some mines. this is why this show is on air!!

so my friends, obl boots will be filled by someone and seals will be trained to hunt him again.. this would be like never ending story, unless they find some other enemy and need to reshape the energy sources.

as a traveller, there will be a treat for western tourist especially in north africa and in middle east. getting visas for a eastern people will be very hard, securities will be tightened, etc. that's it

I'm forced to watch Fox news and it depresses me how opinionated this 'news' broadcasters is. Blatant stirring.

You can't fight these ideas with guns. Those ideas are created as a reaction. Not an action. The west should look at their foreign policy to find the answer to this problem. Marginalise people and send them into poverty and treat them with disrespect and this is what happens. All through history all over the world. A lot of issues started before both world wars. Somehow the US took those problems to themselves when they started throwing their weight around.

The hugely complex Northern Ireland conflict wasn't solved through violence in the end. Time to start learning from the past. Not shrug it off as history. That's how WW2 started. They learnt their lesson after that one though. But it seems not any more.

This has happened already it's what I've been saying for a long time, if we (the west predominently) react to terrorism then we've already lost. (See my previous post).

In a decade, how many more mercenaries do you think could be trained by Al-Qaeda? There are operatives in every country, they are lying low now, but will emerge and will seek revenge, in 6mnths, 2yrs or 20yrs... my point is there will always be terrorism. The question is (or should be) how are you going to change your life, or not to deal with that fact??c?

Can the UK have another 'Bank Holiday' Please bier

I think the words of Martin Luther King sum it up for me:

"I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness, only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate, only love can do that"

Mlk
 

Are you sure those are the words of Martin Luther King?

+1
Peace & respect to all people, cause all people deserve it. :innocent:

Can't we all just get along?...
 

Is anyone tired of this war yet?

Ideology killed by a bullet?
 

I don't think so.

Bin Laden was a tired old man, with ailing health (if the reports are to be belived), the potency of his possition has long been reduced and Al Qaeda as a force was no longer a real threat (the real threat comes from other groups).

Anyone who has bothered to learn a little about this type of terrorism wil agree that there is no leader, Bin Laden was a figurehead only, someone to look upto (in the eyes of some). And by killing him Osama has made Laden a Martyr, elevated to faith where no harm can come of him. In short, What Asama has done is taken a weak snake who has long since lost the power of his bite, and given him more power than we can imagine.

Obama says the world is a safer place, forgive me if I think that is nothing more than an attempt to secure a second term in office.

Bin Laden has died for no other reason than to boost the votes in the White House.

And seeing the mass groups in the US having a party, makes them no better than the groups of terrorists chanting when the twin towers fell.

What Obama should have done, was despatch Bin Laden and said nothing. But where is the voting power in that ?


A Little over 2000 years ago, if the books are to belived, the Romans eliminated a terrorist, they paraded him for all to see so that the ideology would die. Today, Christianity has spread the world over, people have died in wars to support it, the old Europeans set of on crusades to spread the word, and even footbal is effected by it.

No, you cannot kill an ideology with the bullet, only increase it's draw and power.


I would like to think I am totally off the mark here, and utterly wrong. Lets hope so. :stormy:

Osama Bin Laden was killed for his direct role in the 9/11 attacks. He was executed and it was just; I say that as someone whose family live in New York so please, no bleeding heart liberal shite about trials and justice. Justice was served and served well - congratulations Seal Team Six - you did a helluva job and all true Americans are proud of you.

Celebrating the demise of the world's greatest terrorist may be crass but I didn't see anyone burning Pakistani flags in front of the white house, burning effigies or chanting "death to ******* "(insert figurehead of choice) - the difference between a liberal democracy and a pariah state where the people are not free. Americans (some of them) may be fearful and ignorant but they are not hateful in the way that some people in less free countries are.

As to Al Qaeda not being a substantial threat any more - I do not for one minute believe that; there is a long way to go in TWAT (the war against terror).

You saw the title of the thread - why read it if you are not interested? Most people who travel appreciate that stuff like this affects us. Surprised you can't see that.

Great News???? Great Day ???
 

Hola,

YES, this is a travel forum and not a soapbox. You are right palace15.

THE FIRST THING that a traveler on the road has to learn, dont get involved into political or religious discussions or arguments !!!

And it is never good to kill anybody, because maybe you are next.

So, pls stop this thread here.

Good night from Salta Argentina

Mika

Firstly, it is a travel forum but if the mods thought the post to be inappropriate then it wouldn't by now still be here.
Secondly, if you do travel it may be handy to understand a little of the influences, political or otherwise, on the places you go.
Thirdly, in certain situations/circumstances it is right to kill someone. You cannot state it is always wrong to kill no matter what. It all depends though on your own interpretation of what the right reasons are.

I see TV pictures of Americans dancing in the streets and chanting U-S-A. I read the Arab press and see well formed arguments about how this was bound to happen and the guy was going to get what he deserved one way or the other,but it will still act as a recruiting call to some who are on the edge who will now support whichever extremeist cell is on the up. It really doesn't help my fears about religious extremeists having the most powerful weapons in the world when they don't seem to get the fact that you can't bomb or shoot an idea. If you can't get to the middle east, try reading a bit of T E Lawrence, there's even the odd explosion to keep the chanters happy.

Andy

These are two points utterly missed by Obama. I noticed other world leaders are being rather quiet about this whole 'party' attitude to what has happened.

There is a very good book by Jason Burke called Al Qaeda - The true story of radical Islam. The <part> quote on the back reads "shows how eradicating a single figure or group will do nothing to combat terrorism"

The other point to make, if any other country in the world had flown into the US, taken and killed a number of people and flown out again the response would be very brutal, servere and swift. I find it very worrying that any world leader thinks it's justifyable to break the sovereignty of an ally in this way.

I actually though Obama was one of the more astute US leaders, clearly I need to redifine my view.

The 'War on Terror' has already been lost, if you are in any doubt just try to take an international flight (I have to frequently). The freedoms have gone. No water, no liquids, X-rays, searches, long queues, etc. Just using the word 'bomb' anywhere within a 3 mile radius of an airport will get you arrested. The terrorists have struck a major win, and they will lokk for ways to exploite any furth holes. These holes will be closed with more restrictions, removal of more freedom for the public, and so the cycle goes.

As was shown in Northern Ireland, you just cannot fight ideology with a gun. When the groups started to talk things started to happen, and today it is a very different place to the place I visited 20 years ago.

What happened in New York happened, and yes it was right to close the book, but I still maintain it should have been done quietly so the man just vanished.

I agree that there may be an element of revenge for the 3000+ people murdered on 11th September 2001 but this was a righteous kill. IMHO - and that of many, many people.

We are at war, he was the enemy and was killed within the rules of engagement under which his assailants were operating - big boys games, big boys rules I'm afraid.

Are you in war with Pakistan or Saudi?
Is it within the rules to kill a suspect (and a few others) in a foreign country where you have no right to be?

Hello people
I've deleted a couple of personally offensive posts. I would like to leave this thread where it is, rather than moving it to the Bar. Pls remember to discuss the issue (or don't read it at all if you don't like it being discussed) and not insult other users because they have different views to you.

Many thanks,
Chris

Nope, at war with AQ in case you hadn't noticed. OpSec determined that Pakistan should not know about the raid in advance or they never would have got him. Justified, I rekcon. I don't see an Pakistani casualties - do you?

This was an assassination on the sovereign territory of another country wasn't it? IMHO, justified and well executed. Well done ST6.

Okay, so you think a war against an organization gives you the possibility to kill suspects and the people around him/her in any country without prior arrangement with the government?

I don't think we share enough basic values to continue this discussion.

I agree regarding the bit about continuing the discussion.

======

Could you please take this little sub-discussion off line?

IMHO the main thrust of any disussions on the HUBB should be based around how the events of 1st/2nd May 2011 (depending on what time zone you're in) affect m/c and 4x4 and bicycle travels in different parts of the world and at home.

Ta
Chris

DrSherlock and Alibaba

More stuff deleted. I asked you to PLEASE take your discussion off line!

Thank you

Chris

Sorry Chris.

I thought that the thing I wrote was essential to understand how people you meet on the road might look at this incident.

(Feel free to delete this post)

Hi AliBaba
Sent you a PM.
Chris

Well, it´s become pretty obvious, that Pakistan (or at least some people there with high rankings) knew about bin Laden´s existence in the country. So telling them would´ve clearly jeopardised the whole operation, and also put the strike team in great danger.

Not saying that this was 100% legal, though. But they probably care more about the fact, that they got him, after over 10 years of hunting him down.

Legal right doesn't mean moral right and neither does moral mean legal.
You have to make your own mind up as to whether the circumstances fit either, all or none.
And you'll have great difficulty persuading anyone with an opposite view to come round to your own way of thinking.
What is morally right is a very personal opinion, so not black and white - the law is much the same when you go in to it.

We are best discussing how long it will take before genuine bricks and knick knacks from the building are available on eBay.

There are so many "rights" and so many "wrongs" at so many different levels, it's mind boggling to me.

September 11th was an atrocity beyond words. The annihilation of UBL didn't make me jump up and down. Yet, I'm glad he is gone. It's just a continuous saga of sadness for mankind for a while (...until different shit hits the fan).

I am with the administration of not showing any pictures and getting gory with details. I'd prefer the fuzz being kept to a minimum. Ben Laden does not deserve the press and attention. And, it doesn't make the job of our (any) troops in the region easier :(

"Bin Shot"
 

S.e.a.l.s.! U.s. Navy Seal Team 6 Got The Bastard! Not The Army.
:d

Well I do not see the killing of this man to make any difference in overlanding. The people that hate me because where I was born still hate me. The ones willing to kill me will still kill me.

We do not know what the USA and Pakistan may have on arrangements. We do know the USA has spent billions to get Pakistan to help it and Pakistan must walk a thin line in helping the USA. I do find it odd that the USA can sent jets and helicopters in to a military city in a nuclear power and it not be known seen or stopped. Let alone sit on the ground for 40 min. and no one stop and see what there doing. Seal team 6 or not you can not hide an operation that big that long.

You will probably find the aircraft were not able to be detected by radar. It may be that a cover story or distraction of some sort was put out to confuse the Pakistani military as to what was really happening on the ground.

BBC News - 'Stealth helicopters' used in Bin Laden raid

let us not forget that one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter,
obl was a good guy when he was blowin up the commies and we were giving him cash.Do you think obl woke up one morning and said i would like to be Mr Evil??

Stealth helicopters might help with radar, but aren't much use when your target is only 400m from a Pakistani military base. If the base wasn't aware of what was going on then it was pretty incompetent of them not to investigate!

Can't see how the army base wasn't aware, this guy was apparently the first to 'tweet' about it and doesn't sound like they were that quiet either but probably just very quick:

https://twitter.com/#!/ReallyVirtual

war on terror!
 

Can't believe my replies got deleted. Anyway just to clarify, mercenaries are hired killers. When we occupy foreign countries, people will fight back. Expecting afghans, Iraqis, Irish, Palestinians to lay lay down and die while we brutally terrorize their country will never work.

Yup, there's a deletion happy moderator on the loose who deletes anything he does not agree with. Zapped a couple of mine too.

Pretty much - it was the use of Saudi to base US troops prior to the war to kick SH out of Kuwait that did it. Infidels on Saudi soil etc etc

Let the Mod do his/her job...
remember you might be reading this thread
from your own home others are on the road
maybe in inter cafe's reading this with others viewing

Eh?:confused1:

Scenario: You are sat in an internet cafe in the rough end of Jakzistan. You pop onto an "Adventure travel" site to see if anyone else is going in your direction. Some fool who doesn't actually own a passport and thinks Mexicans and Canadians have two heads has posted a video of himself chanting U-S-A while stamping on a picture of Osama Bin Laden and drinking sex-in-a-canoe "beer". Some kid sitting at the next screen sees this and is waiting for you outside with twelve of his mates and a few flaming torches.

This does seem pretty unlikely in that when travelling you'd tend to stick to other parts of this site (and avoid the other one where our video poster is more likely to hang out all together) same as you'd avoid expressing an opinion on anything religious or political unless you knew the other people well and wouldn't be overheard. It is still a valid point though, I once stayed in a hotel in either Morocco or Algeria and a guy I half knew was reading some sort of spy novel. The huge US flag on the front cover was getting him some funny looks given they were bombing Iraq at the time.

Shouldn't this thread be in the bar unless people on the ground are seeing a reaction to what happened?

Andy