3.6 million UK voters are undecided
 

This is a non political comment, so I'm not promoting one party or another, not even discussing the party names.

According to the YouGov survey I just participated in (sample size over 3,000) 5% of the respondents don't plan to vote tomorrow, 88% have made their minds up on how they will vote, but a massive 8% haven't yet decided.

If this holds true for the population as a whole, out of the total of 45+ million voters, 3.6 million of them will wake up tomorrow, look out of the window, and only then somehow make their mind up. Will it be the sight of a black cat crossing the road? Or an eclipse of the sun that will finally make their mind up?

How representative is the sample? I should have thought those who were savvy enough to sign up for a smartphone app or use a web browser would be amongst the most decisive in the population.

The mind boggles.

(Please don't turn this into a political thread. No party names allowed!)

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In Australia, it is no problem being undecided, but if you want to stay out of the polling booth it will cost you a $50 fine. Sounds like it might be a good idea to bring that in in the UK. At least nobody can say that a particular outcome wasn't their fault because they didn't vote.

There are lies, damn lies and then there are statistics! You can speculate about hypothesised statistical analysis until your bum falls off but it won't change the outcome! :smile3:

I liked the talking dog and stripping grannies but can live without yet another urban dance group/choir. Can't tell the difference between the soap box jokers though.


It's a NO from me.


Andy

Democracy in action
 

Why assume that each and every one responding to a survey tells their innermost thoughts, much less the truth of their real intentions.

Nor I.
Nations get the politicians they deserve and this nation is pretty decrepit so, sure enough, the totally of politicians are equally decrepit and there isn't a Statesman among the lot of them.
So, there is nothing to pick between them, no matter what party they claim to have allegiance with.
The corollary is that it really doesn't matter who happens to be in government for another 5 years - ultimate control of the UK will come from elsewhere.

It could be worse. You might have been unlucky enough to be born across the Atlantic and have to suffer the US election circus.

But hang on. I live way across the Pacific and we have to suffer through most of it. Probably a direct result of allowing Sesame Street into the country all those years ago.

Thankfully the UK process doesn't rate in the colonies so we are spared most of it unless we look at the Guardian on-line.

I didn't even know an election was coming in UK. All we hear about is the new Baby girl. Is Bridget Jones' boy friend Mark running? :smartass:

You lot are doing much better than us, only 57% voted in US presidential election in '12. Lowest turnout since WW2. Think voting doesn't matter?

You just have no idea just how fooking crazy our nutjobs really are.
World War 3 ? They won't even hesitate. doh (or ... as some X president who talks to God sez: "bring it on")
:tank: War! ... it's what we do best!

I've followed this year's campaign intensely even watching the Scotland-only and Northern Ireland-only debates. I think all of the politicians are well intentioned even if I don't share their particular vision of the future and I would gladly go for a drink with any of them and have a natter.

I actually got my photo in a national newspaper at the 2010 election along with a funky chicken.

My daughter is a producer with the BBC and was running a doorstepping crew at Nick Clegg's house in Putney. We live only about 400m away and I got a call real early to say she was cold and could I do a coffee run. So I organised coffee for the BBC, Sky News, ITV and whatever and then the Daily Mirror's 'Mirror Chicken' turned up to get in the photo at which stage Cleggy appeared—doesn't he look young?

You have to admire his composure, seriously answering questions about the coalition talks with a chicken at his elbow.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/...03_634x424.jpg

I couldn't find the image with me in it, but in the one above from the Daily Mail my daughter is in the white hat.

Possibly a better way of deciding than listening to the election bs coming out from them all :)

I voted last weekend as I have a postal vote, and then realised, shit, what happens if I see a black cat crossing the road on election day? and have already voted for the wrong person :eek:

HA! doh :thumbup1:
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First of all, I wish people could look up the word 'democracy' in a dictionary and research its origins before using that word to describe any aspect of the first world political circus.

Fining people for not voting?? That really makes no sense, whilst I would argue that it is irrelevant which main stream party candidate anyone votes for, people at least maintain the right to protest by having the right NOT to vote.

Personally, I have no respect for any of the candidates, they are simply the face(less) representatives of the various lobby groups that control our political establishment and ensure that the corporations and billionaires become richer and richer, whilst the workers and middle classes pay for the 'joy' of working for the aforementioned.

In UK terms, the last 2 politicians of any credibility were probably Enoch Powell and Tony Benn. Opposite ends of the spectrum in many ways, but that had ideas and conviction.

UKIP might be able to return a little power to the UK with a swift exercise of removal from the EU, but they seem frighteningly American in their outlook to everything IMHO. Otherwise its all the same...... Integration into the Fourt Reich..........:oops2::oops2::oops2:

I'm undecided.

It makes relatively little difference as I live in a Conservative stronghold. I, "Agreed with Nick" last time and still respect Vince Cable but feel a little let down by Cleggy. I won't be voting Labour and certainly not UKIP.

I've done some online questionnaires this evening. The Independent told me to vote Labour, the Torygraph said vote Conservative.

Apparently, my party matches are:
Conservatives - 66%
Labour - 60%
Liberal Democrats - 59%
Green Party - 51%
UKIP - 43%

Either way, I just wish my vote actually mattered and am seriously considering moving to a marginal constituency. :biggrin3:

I'm one of the alleged 8% Tim refers to. My view of the 2015 lineup is

http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/med...nce_muppet.jpg

I live in a safe seat for one of the parties that I can't bring myself to vote for, so my vote is pointless. The constituency next door has this chap as it's MP. I wonder if he'll be in a job by 10pm GMT +1 tomorrow?

That is pretty much how all the press and other media perform when it suits them.
A few days ago we had a large circulation newspaper here in the UK with 3 different front pages for 3 separate areas of the UK campaigning for 3 different outcomes.
Why should the population be anything other than ambivalent?

As for UK elections, this is how they can turn out:-
Tower Hamlets: how a dictatorship flourished in the East End | Nick Cohen | Comment is free | The Guardian

Hanging chards just ain't in it.

I don't blame so many people for being undecided - it's usually a matter of choosing the lesser of two (sometimes more) evils.

I remember as a young boy asking my father who he was voting for in the upcoming election, and he told me he always voted for the underdog. I figured that was a pretty good idea then, and it is often a good idea now.

Choises
 

In the United States, only about 40 - 45 House seats are undecided(out of 450). If the person running is an incumbent(and not in jail), he will get elected 95% of the time. This is due to gerrymandering. In the last governor's election in Louisiana where I live, there was no serious opponent to the bum who is in office(his current approval rating is 24%). As we say, you get the government you deserve. I still vote, but its due to habit rather than hope.

As they say "it doesn't matter who you vote for, the government still gets in".
In reality, in the constituency where I live, it doesn't matter who you vote for as the Tory still gets in and has done in every election since 1910.

Even at the point where I'm about to walk down to the polling station I'm not sure who's going to get my cross in the national election. Should I go with the (inevitable) flow or make a policy led decision based on what I think is best for the country? The problem with that is there's "hardly a sheet of Bronco between them" (UK tv joke) and when I went through an on line quiz aimed at helping you work out whose policies best fit with your ideas it came out as 20% each for Conservatives, Labour, Lib-Dems, Green and UKIP. I think I might be looking for a pin to take with me. :confused2:

Maybe it really doesn't matter who you vote for as the Scot Nats will be pulling the strings no matter who gets in.

Make them wait
 

I'm keeping my powder dry until just before 10 pm when the polling booths close; that will keep the tellers outside the polling station on their toes.
Their aim is to conduct an exit poll for the political parties - make them sweat.

Incidentally, I have a postal vote but I shall deliver it by hand this time.

Also incidentally, a spoilt ballot paper is reported to be of more interest, and angst, to the parties at the counting stations then a legit one because they all try to convince the returning officer that it is one cast for their candidate; so if you want to be noticed vote for "none of the above" or some such variation.

It's much the same here, especially in the local elections which are also running today alongside the national election.
Very many of the local candidates are standing unopposed so it is a 100% certainty that they will be returned to their post no matter what the turnout happens to be.

I'm one of the 8% still wavering.

I have thought a lot about it - its a privilege and responsibility. 4 or 5 weeks ago I mapped out my priorities:

1. Manage the economy well
2. Don't spend what you haven't got (however worthy the cause)
3. Care for the vulnerable
4. Don't even start to think about cutting taxes until you've finished doing 3 above

No one party, in my view, represents that agenda as i would choose. I am in a 3 way marginal. The candidate i most respect is unlikely to win. The right tactical candidate for my requirements has fought a very negative campaign so i don't really want to vote for him. All in all a tough decision that i am still weighing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

A fair and transparent election
 

Apart from which, and just as a "for instance":
A vote in the Hebrides is worth about 5 times more than one in, say, the Isle of Wight.
About 22K voters in the north constituency have a member of parliament viz a viz the 110000 (or thereabouts) on the IoW who also have a single MP.

Thats why some people believe we should have proportional representation!

I told my MP ( Ed Balls himself no less) I wanted direct democracy. An online vote for policies not parties or people. Would you believe he didn't agree? Could it be the huge salary, expense account and job security based on getting promoted to the house of lords might sway his thinking there?

Andy

Not seen any black cats crossing the road yet today so it looks like my postal vote still stands correct :D

I joined the queue at my designated polling station this afternoon and voted for the character pictured above. He wasn't actually on the official voting slip, so I had to add his name and a box, into which I put my cross. I'm intrigued to find out how many others "spoilt" their vote in my constituency.

No longer undecided. No longer a floating voter. I am now, decided. I just hope I'm not sunk.

Vote cast.
A vote for every party on the paper except for one of them.

Exactly so.

The turkeys are never going to vote for Christmas to come early.

I once asked a lawyer acquaintance of mine why something or other was progressing so slowly (I forget what the issue was).
His reply: there is no money to be made from providing a quick answer.
I guess politicians follow a similar line of reasoning; actually many of them are lawyers aren't they? Maybe not the Lord Prescott.

Enough; the deed is done for another 5 years, or maybe not?

Did the cat win?

The Channel4 election event, featuring Paxman, is great viewing.

I'm sure you've already heard that Mr Balls has ballsed it up and is no longer on a fat salary and expenses. He may of course now be heading to the House of Lords.

It's said that politics is Hollywood for ugly people. That's certainly true in in red Ed's (x 2) case.

Gorgeous George got binned too. I wonder if he will now have others able to salute his indefatigability.

http://www.israellycool.com/wordpres...ig-brother.jpg

Well, I wasn't expecting that. Were you expecting that? I wasn't.

That was my point in fact.

Another statistic from the reporting:-

About 7% of the UK population get 56 seats (Scotland) and about 14% get just 2 (if the forecast at present turns out to be correct).

So, things have changed but they haven't; the constitution of the UK is very amiss; it could be best described as dysfunctional.

And, if the turnout of voters is analysed then it is likely to show that politics in Scotland is far more important to that electorate than it is the case in England et al.

Prediction:
The way it will go for the next 5 years is that UKIP will morph into some form of an English Independance Party (that is where they are receiving their support of nearly 4m votes) while both the Scots and Welsh continue to plough their own furrows (along with Northern Ireland of course).

Can't say I'm that upset. He was actually the best of the Red Rosetted Pork Pies we've had since they gave the plebs the vote and the Yellow lot couldn't bribe enough voters anymore (We were a prober bent Borough back in the olden days, three voters; the MP, his brother and the bloke they got ****ed on polling day to make sure).

We had Merlyn-Rees who was just dumped here to hide from the IRA after his stint in Ulster. It was a sort of retirement/care in the community sort of job. He once actually told me I was wasteing my vote not picking red as they'd always hold the place. Then we had Colin Challen who I think was some trade union reject, but he never actually turned up. You could at least check that Red Ed made it nearer to the chamber than the members bar. He'll have to learn to recognise parked cars and yellow lines now he's rejoined the minions though.:innocent:

Andy

Done and dusted, for now
 

Quite apart from the absolute population figures, what happened is:-

37% of those who voted got some 331 seats and the govn they voted for.
31% of those who voted got 232 seats
13% of those who voted got 1 seat (the Kippers)
8% of those who voted got 8 seats (the Liberal-Dems)
7% of those who voted got 22 seats (the Others)
5% of those who voted got 56 seats (in Scotland)

So, it's another minority government that has to govern with a very thin majority in the parliament.
That will work then!

3.6 million UK voters are undecided
 

Me neither - shocked and really hoping (praying) for the compassionate brand of conservatism promised years ago. Feel sorry for Clegg - I thought that overall the ConDem government did a decent job in difficult circumstances - a better job than the Tories would have delivered alone.

Conscious that is a personal opinion and as per the intro to this thread, respect that others will have different views which are as equally valid as mine

I'm with you; the brakes are off and I'm a little concerned.

Coming full circle
 

This class of people are now crying into their glasses of pinot noir and half pint lager shandies while proclaiming that their game will continue and they will do better next time; any excuse applies for failing to do what they claim to do but they never mention that politicians lie and the public have learnt to lie to the pollsters.

There is only one poll that counts.

3.6 million UK voters are undecided
 

I think the polling issue is quite interesting.

My gut instinct is that it gave a misleading picture for 3 reasons:

1. The undecideds went right not left at the end - and there were enough of them to make a big difference

2. Overall the left wing vote is more ideological than the centre right one and hence more likely to commit earlier, thereby distorting the poll

3. In some circles at least voting left is viewed as socially more 'acceptable' (certainty among my mates you'd believe the no one with any shred of decency could possibly not be left wing - total rubbish but there you go). As such those voting left are more open about it.

There has to be a better solution than the above. At the moment a massive percentage of votes cast have no impact whatsoever on the results, so no wonder that many people think they are disenfranchised. I think everyone's vote should have some impact even if it's a much diluted one.

If you apply the SNP results (4.7%) to the UKIP percentage (12.6%), UKIP should have got 150 seats.

According to the Electoral Reform Society, if the election had been run under the D'Hondt method of converting seats to votes, UKIP would have had 83 seats, LibDem 50 seats and SNP 25 seats. But this sounds too extreme in the opposite direction, maybe the ideal result lies a formula that gives a result somewhere in between.

But... back to lies, damned lies and polls...

According to the pollsters there was a sudden last minute shift in voting intentions. OK, so if this was the case you'd expect it to be reflected in this morning's polling.

Yet when YouGov poll asked this morning what respondents thought of the result of the election, a full 50% said they were disappointed or worse. This demonstrates that clearly the respondents are NOT representative of the voting public at large. So I won't be paying much attention to polls in the future.

.

Well, put your thumbs in your braces and tell us all about it.

Ed Miliband, born 24 December 1969; died, May 7 2015. He leaves behind a smug clique
 

"Ed Miliband, born 24 December 1969; died, May 7 2015. He leaves behind a smug clique of elitist a**eholes"

There are others who can tell the tale far better than I:
The 25 Hour News and Dead Ed: An Obituary

The Sunday Post: A Right Kick in the Balls

I followed the links but didn't read them. If they had an opinion that they were prepared to put their name behind maybe i would have. Without some credentials their opinion is just that 'their anonymised opinion' and therefore no more valid than yours or mine and therefore not worth quoting, though clearly thats just my opinion.:biggrin3:

well, that's a matter of opinion!

Yep, that's life.

Be careful not to countenance any view that may clash with current belief systems.

Cullis,

Would you really want UKIP to have more seats? Really? Is that what you are saying here?

I don't think Tim is saying that, but there must be an alternative system that reflects how people actually voted! The above is absurd.

I think the wards simply reflect the phenomenon that "birds of a feather flock together"; for example in this part of the world, a chimpanzee would get voted in if it wore a blue rosette (and funnily enough, would probably do a better job than the current incumbent MP).

Then again, you don't see any tories complaining about the results, do you? The system may be a bit rigged, but as long as the rigging keeps morons like UKIP on the fringes or out of British politics altogether, I think I can live with it.

The gaping faultline in that form of argument is that "the people" cannot be trusted to decide for themselves, so the politicians know best what we need and what is best for us, the electorate.
In itself, not much of a step onward from "no votes for women and a parliament composed of vested interests such as wealthy landowners" (not all that long ago in fact).

By the way, for those in the UK, there has just finished on the BBC a pretty good discussion about this very topic - every politician on the Question Time panel agreed that the current system is not fair and there were various suggestions about how to improve the current system.

One thing struck me, that was not discussed therein; two actually -
1) there is much more interest in politics in England since the rise of the SNP.
and 2) in general, contributions by the public to discussion points are better informed than they have been in the past (hence "due deference" to the politicos is declining and the latter are more often on the defensive).

In short, people are waking up.

As evidenced by the metro being the best selling car in the UK for many years, and 10th best seller of all time, and the mass market bollocks on the TV, the sun is the best selling newspaper
and thats before I even consider the stream of muppets coming through my ED department!

Education, education, education
 

A stat mentioned on the TV debate of last night is that 25% of the UK people voted for the current government = 37% of those who actually voted on 7th May x the % which represents those who were registered to vote but some did not turn out on the day.

Quite so, and there are many more examples.

So, the UK is decrepit and definitely gets the politicians that the people deserve, OR they are waking up and reading something other than the Sun newspaper; useful, informed blogs for example or this very Bulletin board or, --------------- name your own ideas for educating the populance.

You think so? I hope so!

https://thepoorsideoflife.files.word...5/img_4167.jpg

Murdoch FTW!

http://a.abcnews.com/images/Business..._110719_wg.jpg

Newspapers by circulation in the UK;

The Sun, Daily Mail, Daily Mirror, Evening Standard, Daily Telegraph, Daily Express, Daily Star, The Times, Financial Times, Daily Record, The Guardian, The Independent.

FYI The Sun has a higher readership than the Mirror, the Guardian and the Independant put together. Out of these list, these are the only 'left-wing' publications. The rest of right or centre right, mostly tabloids. Murdoch, Desmond, The Barclay Brothers and The Rothermeres own the UK press and they set the agenda.

But the UK is full of benefit scroungers innit?

http://www.centreforwelfarereform.or...in-context.jpg

1billion is too much, totally, but look at that in relation to tax avoidance... You won't hear much about that in the Daily Mail or Murdoch press though.... Bank Rescue package in 2008 = £500 billion. Will you hear about banking reform in the Tory press? No, keep on blaming the "benefit scroungers" and forget about the real scroungers, i.e the rich and monied who enjoy all sorts of benefits but you'll never see any channel4 "poverty pornos" about that.

doh

Well, perhaps it is just a hope on my part; maybe most people are still fast asleep.

I am broadly aware of your various statistics, including those about the printed press; the latter are losing circulation year on year as other means of communication rise in usage.
Personally, I haven't bought a newspaper in over a decade and I have only every read one or two very local weekly publications.
I do look at them on line very occasionally, such as a certain big seller which a few days before the election used the front page to support 3 different parties in 3 different areas of the country; perhaps they were confused, perhaps hypocritical, perhaps paid to publish??

There is so much information made available via the WWW nowadays for anyone to even want, never mind need, to rely on print to remain informed.
Just as a single "for instance":
The Guardian newspaper and Mohammed 'Al' Fayed

I think you are dead right about that. The press and the traditional forms of power who control it no doubt feel very threatened by the meteoric rise of social media. Perhaps this is why Murdoch the Misanthrope lashed out and bought up MySpace, though it backfired spectacularly.

If you can read between the lines of the speech Cameron read the other day, the one about 'terrorism' and 'British values', apart from sounding a bit Nazi-esque, what it contained was very scary and I think it was part of a growing response to the new emerging power of social media. For example, if someone posts an article about "ISIS", you could post something that would incite violence but if one were referring to British or American troops invading another country, you could be arrested and charged. This happened.

Consider this along with the Tories trying to scrap the Human Rights and replace it with something more conducive to establishment interests, with anyone who 'challenges democracy' or is an 'extremist' (extreme ironing in danger nowadays?), the Tories are keeping the machine built by NuLab steamrollering over our civil liberties and freedom.

Anyway I digress! Apologies. :innocent: