DR650 - Safari Tank - Starved of fuel, why?
 

Howdy. Right so yesterday my bike spluttered cut out on the highway, clearly sounds like it just ran out of fuel. I stop, check my fuel taps are on (which they are), it starts and i ride about 10km and fill up with my riding mates. I have a 30L safari tank, with inline fuel filters, taps on reserve (I always run it on reserve out of habit), at this point the fuel height is AT LEAST an inch above the height of the fuel hose where it turns and goes into the carby.

Next day it happens again, then again 5km down the road, and again, until i make it to a petrol station, fuel up and ride another 100+km with no problem, again it happened when the fuel is about an inch above the hose to the carby. I pulled the hose off the carby and checked each tap was sending fuel. that was fine, maybe SLIGHTLY less when the hose is held at the height of the carby intake.

Now when I first got the tank I wasnt aware of the carby intake/fuel hose height stopping the last bit of fuel from getting in, so on my way back from a trip I ran out of fuel (in my drive way luckily) with not much more than 1-2 inches in each side. On this day I had my girl friend on the back, so was taking it pretty easy. In the last 2 days it has happened at roughly 100km/ph on HWY.

So why now is my fuel running out when I have more in the tank than I used to? Could it be that cruising slower with my GF on the back translates to less fuel flow needed and in that case I was lucky?

I also have a locking cap, which I thought might be the problem as I know they have been known to block air. I took it off and left it only half a turn on after the first time it happened. Still didnt fix my problem as the next day it happened 3 times with the cap only half a turn on.

those who have Safari tanks, how low does your fuel get before you run out?
the bike doesnt have any other issues, like choking or running rough, goes like new, just for some reason I'm not getting fuel in there when it gets low, but not as low as it used to.

Carb inlet filter?
 

Have you checked the little plastic filter in the carb inlet? I've known similar filters slime up with transparent gunk that's not immediately visible.

Not sure about the Safari, but to get my Acerbis tank to work I had to rotate the carb inlet about 80 degrees anti-clockwise to avoid airlocks. I also run a non-lockable fuel cap with a one-way breather to help maintain fuel pressure when low (blowing up the tank like a balloon via the breather can also help).

Good luck!

Vacuum? Check the breather of your fuel cap isn't blocked/ covered (tank bag?)

Vapour lock in fuel line?

Spark plug needs replacing?

Air filter blocked?

I had exactly the same issue on my DR650 with a Safari tank. It turned out to be nothing to do with the fuel supply. It was a skinny little breather pipe that comes out the back of the carb. Mine got pinched and trapped in my swing arm mount after I gave my wife a lift on the back of the bike.
The bike could do about 5-10 mins max of running and then die like fuel starvation. I just leant on the seat with my chest to compress the rear end and freed the pipe from the suspension. Done.

Tell me I'm wrong!!

@ Chris. The tank/petcock setup is not vacuum operated. Spark plugs do not need replacing or the air filter - The bike goes like a bat out of hades for 100's of KM before I get about an inch from the fuel line/carby intake height. I'm starting to think that this is just the lowest it can go before pressurization is needed, and maybe the first time I ran it lower I was just really lucky.

Actually the first time I ran it low (lower than last this week) I was using the normal Safari tank cap. Now I use the lockable version with tank filter (which I know doesnt create a seal on the top of the tank). So maybe the change in tank cap has made the difference?

Turn the carb inlet counter clockwise to about 90 degrees that will let use most of the gas.
Another thing you can do when the gas gets that low. Put the bike on the side stand and the gas will all run to the left side. Close the right petcock and trap the fuel on left side.

Yes done all those tricks (except moving the inlet pipe) What my issue is - is that before I could run the bike lower on fuel than I now can. I used to get an 1.5 inches from the bottom before it was all over. Now im over 3 inches from the bottom before im out. Im starting to think the change tank cap, as well as the addition of a tank filter has made the difference, as the new filter means the top doesn't seal (its a bad fit).

You've misunderstood what I said.

Good luck with sorting your situation.

DR650Bandit,

The intermittent symptoms you describe are similar to what happens when you have water in your gas tank - are there any blobs down by the petcocks?

if so drain and clean the tank, drain the float, clean out the fuel hoses and filters

If not:

How close does your right side fuel hose get to the exhaust, any chance of a vapour lock from the manifold ?

The BST40 inlet when vertical can cause a vapour lock too with the curve of the hose getting heated up - if you can turn inlet as Bigdon mentions and make sure the fuel hose is straight from the petcock to the inlet with no loop and keep it as cool as possible this might cure the issue. Remember too that as you get to the bottom of the tank the fuel is prone to being warmer - especially if you run slowly in traffic and with high ambient air temperatures - this can also contribute to vapour locks

Just to check, did you remove the small carb inlet fuel filter as AndyBev mentioned - when partially blocked (it blocks up very quickly as it has a small surface area) can cause fuel flow to reduce and this in turn can cause a vapour lock in hand with any of the other factors.

Are you using inline filters, are they clean ? - back flush them, maybe also remove the petcocks and clean them.


The last thing I can think of is the petcock(s) not flowing properly, do you use fuel with ethanol ? this can degrade the petcock o rings and make them stick
The OEM petcocks that come with the Safari tank are not very good and I have had one stick closed in the open position before - avoid using ethanol if possible or use a fuel stabiliser (Sea Foam etc.)

post photos of each side of the bike if possible and lets have a look at the setup.

Fuel flows freely on both taps and through the in line filters. The plumbing is pretty similar to the instructions given, only I have shortened the length to the inlet, raising the T closer to the inlet in the process. The fuel pipe is also not close enough for the fuel to be getting too hot.

I did however just check the inlet filter and there was s### in it. I cleaned it out, so hopefully this might be the end of my problem. Agreed about the safari petcocks. I had mine only 3 months before I replaced the rubbers :thumbdown: but they are fine now.

If you are running good in line filters, junk the carb inlet filter.

I got the wrong name for the Safari tank petcocks - its OMG - which must stand for 'Oh My God' these are crap :cool4:

How did you go with the cleaned out filter?

People have previously reported that additional inline fuel filters prevent fuel flow when it gets low if there is any air inside the filter. Is your filter clear so you can see if there is any air in it?

I have found the Safari supplied petcocks to be OK so far. I think they used to supply plastic type ones but they are now metal ones. Interested to hear from you guys who have petcocks that went bad, what year did you buy the tank from Safari? Maybe it has changed? Mine was mid last year.

Good luck with it.

mines was bought new in 2010 -the petcock body is metal, the lever is plastic

Bought my tank this year. The petcocks are metal, with metal tap. the rubber seals leaked like a sieve after 3 months, like running out, not drips. Safari told me the petcocks are made in europe where the fuel is better quality and doesn't perish the rubber. Anyway long story short they sent me new petcocks with new rubbers, which were apparently made of a different rubber and wouldn't leak. That was 6 months ago and they have been faultless since.

Yes I have had air bubbles in my inline filters, which I also thought may be a problem as the line would suck the air instead of fuel and then trap it in the bend near the inlet. I cleaned the inlet filter and put it all back together. I have not had a chance to run it as I'm prepping the bike for shipment and have drained the tank. I'm not really worried about it. my riding mate has a 20L tank so ill just fill up every time he fills up and we will be fine. However I'll post later if id do find out if my problem is fixed or not.

btw ill be shattered if any s### ends up in my carby since I have a
tank cap filter
petcock filter
inline fuel hose filter
and a carby inlet filter!
Surely thats enough to stop any grit :thumbup1:

I have all that except the inline filter. I found the tank cap "sock" filter is great but too slow to fill up at the fuel stations - the attendants don't get it and don't slow the flow so the fuel has time to flow through, hence it overflows. So I gave up on that at fuel stations and just use it when fuel comes out of a barrel or something. This is in South America... and I did get some crap clogging the carb inlet filter a few times - surprisingly in the two more developed countries only - Chile and Brazil. Easy and quick to clean out though and the carb has remained clean.

The best mod I did was a very long breather hose from the cap. When bike stops because fuel is too low i can grab it and blow into it, tie a knot and keep going - all without leaving the comfort of the seat. It is long enough to go down to the higher metal speedo cable holder that attaches at the fender. Tuck the end in there and pull it out when you need to pressurise tank.

My petcocks are the metal ones with a metal handle/tap. No issues with either of them and I turn them on and off each day (riding most days) for the last 8 months. Sounds like the taps between us are all over the place. Glad I got the good ones!

Where you guys shipping to?

Shipping to Cape Town. Taking the first bike to the ship yard tomorrow and the other one next week.

I had the same issue with the big Safari tank. Repositioning the carb inlet pipe on the DR650 solved the problem. Like bigdon said earlier in this thread. See here for my writeup in post #9.

http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...ari-tank-47452

Here's another reference. Carby mod to suit 33 litre Aqualine tank - DR - ThumperTalk

I fixed it by shortening the pipe entering the carby, making the curve smaller. Rode 20,000km in 94 days and it didnt happen once. I guess there was an air block previously.

hi bigdon, you mention here to turn the inlet at the carby approx 90 degrees , can you please advise how to do this ?

Thanks

rodney

I used an big adjustable wrench.
Put it along the inlet pipe and carefully turn to 90 degrees.
The inlet is push fit. It needs to turn in the carb body, not bend.
Mine turned pretty easily, some have had more trouble.
Good luck.

Here’s how I fixed mine. Removed carb, let inlet pipe/carb connection steep in Liquid Wrench overnite.

Used my vise with some rubber strips to protect the inlet pipe metal.

Position inlet pipe in the vise and tighten vise. I had mine between the two clamps on the left side of the vise.

IMPORTANT – you want the pipe connection point to the carb as flush & tight as possible in the vise. This is to prevent kinking the pipe. If you have even 1mm or 2mm space you risk kinking the pipe.

So with the pipe connection as flush & tight in the vise as possible, you move the full carb. It took a LOT of force to move it and yes it is a little nerve-wracking. Finally, it gave way just slightly -- you can feel it give.

I removed from vise, examined, and repeated the procedure about four times until I had it where I wanted it (9 o'clock, which has worked fine). It gets a little easier once the first movement is made.

One time I was a little careless and didn’t have the pipe fully flush in the vise. Result – a slight kink. No big deal but lesson learned.

Some guys have tried to do this with vise grips or some kind of wrench, with bad results.

That's probably the best way to move the metal fuel inlet pipe.

Of course, I did it differently! :smartass:

I took Carb off bike, carefully held it in a vise using rubber padding. If you clamp too tight ... you will crack your Carb in two! doh

I then used a big Channel lock pliers. Grabbed inlet tube evenly and with quite a bit of pressure, simply rotated it to 9 'o'clock position, all in one move. Done. Done it on two DR650 Carbs, no problems ... and now I can use ALL of my reserve on my IMS tank. From 10 mile reserve to 30 miles! :thumbup1:

Some fit a fuel pump to the Safari in order to suck all the fuel out ... and many use two petcocks, right and left.

Hi guys. We just fitted a 20L acerbis. We used the petcock that came with the tank.

We blocked of the second little vacuum pipe. The bike started but would jot go around the block. Tonight he wont even start.

Also the petrol only flows out on reserve but doesnt fill the little filter thingie ( sorry im a girl and learning all the terminogy)

Can my tank be too empty. I only have a petcock on the left. Other side is empty

Also must the small vacuum hose that was in the original petcock be opened or sealed off.

I commute every day and cant use my bike at the mo :(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...d659a2b707.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...7bfda4489b.jpg

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We all have problems with terminology. What is a wrench in one part of the work is something different in another part of the world.. even where they are supposed to be speaking the same language. doh

So the basic questions...
The inlet of fuel to the carburettor .. does it point up, or horizontal? Standard it points up, and that means the fuel has to flow up from your tank to get to the carburettor .. liquids don't normally flow up hill. So the inlet has to be rotated so it is horizontal .. see the other posts above as to how that is done.

If you remove the rubber fuel feed line where it gets to teh carburettor fuel should come out (when the tap is turned on). If it does not then you have a problem before this point. Open the fuel cap on top of the fuel tank and see if that fixes it. If not then try removing the fuel line from the fuel tap and see if the fuel now come out of the tap. If not .. look closely at the tap... If you cannot see any thing wrong .. then I'd remove the tap and check fuel will come out of the tank. If fuel comes out the tank then it points to the fuel tap ...

See how your going from looking for fuel at one point .. and moving that point back and back untill you get fuel and isolate one item that is obstructing the fuel? That is the way all fault finding works. There are further considerations .. but on a simple system to a complex system .. this is what is done. It takes time, but you just work through it.

---------
Oh .. the vacuum line .. you seal that off. Unless the fuel tap requires it.

As Warin says, figure out if the fuel is flowing out of the tank and to the carb first. Sometimes the small inline fuel filters do not look like they have much fuel in them, don't worry about that, see if the fuel is getting to the carb


Can you post a photo of the bike from the side, at the height of the petcock or just below - looking at the side of the carb and showing the fuel hose going from the petcock to the tank?

Thank you Warin... we turned it horizontal. Well try your advice!

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Ok will do

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Ok.it seem it only flows on reserve...so maybe to empty for on? Ok we closed vacuum line with nut. Stayed on for 5'seconds.

Hope this is pics you wantedhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...8649afd090.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...2d215490b9.jpg

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Thanks for the photo Ilse,

Was the DR running fine before the tank was changed?
So now the fuel inlet on the carb has been turned you should be getting petrol into the carb ok, in the carb inlet pipe (the metal one you turned) there might still be a small yellow plastic filter screen, if one is fitted I would remove it and throw it away, they are very small and clog up easily - but up to you, there are pictures here of what it looks like.

2006 DR650 won't stay running - www.DRRiders.com

The fuel level is quite low in the tank, so if the petcock is turned to 'ON' there might not be enough petrol, I would put another 10 litres into the tank at least to test it properly.

Make sure that the inline fuel filter is the right way round - to me it looks like it could possibly be on backwards - it may have an arrow on it with 'flow' written on it, but normally they would be the other way around with the narrow end of the internal (gold coloured) filter towards the tank. This is so you can see any dirt in the filter. To clean the filter, flow petrol into it from the other direction to 'back flush' it or use some brake cleaner spray. However I may be wrong - it has happened before :)

Was 100% before.

Is the thingie that is the wrong way the little plastic one? We were wondering. Ok well try that tonite when we get home and keep u posted. Thank you so much

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Hi Ilse,

the tiny plastic filter (or thingy) is in the metal carb inlet pipe, you can remove this and do not use it.

I was talking about the inline fuel filter being around the wrong way - the larger plastic one that is between the 2 sections of rubber fuel hose

That's a good point ... if the inline fuel filter is wrong way round fuel will not be passing through.

The Tiny, white plastic filter inside the metal fuel inlet pipe can clog, so YES,
use a razor or sharp knife to catch it's edge and remove it. Or not.

(I leave my little white filter in but do check it once in a while)


Only other thing that might be blocking fuel is a clogged petcock.

You can undo the two bolts holding it in place and remove it.
(DRAIN FUEL BEFORE YOU DO THIS doh ) Some times on a new tank crap can be inside blocking fuel flow ... but not common.

Your hose routing is GOOD and I like the turned metal inlet fuel pipe. Good move on that! You should be able to use ALL the fuel in the tank ... so I'm surprised it's not running now ... hopefully it's just fuel filter put in wrong way.

Good luck! Let us know how you like the bike! Your range should be AWESOME with the big tank! bier

Thanks so much for all the advice. My baby went around the block twice,seems it was the little plastic thing between the 2 pipes. It would not really let petrol through,so we removed it completely for now.

We put 10 litres in and now starts on ON

So happy. Now I just need to sort my jetting out then hes good to go :-D We put on a aftermarket cowley and put in a 150 jet,bike was a monster :-D but vot 164 km on tank instead of 210 km. The guy then tuned it and got 174, enjoyed bike alot but because it was before the 20L tank goi g awaybwas a problem even with my 5L Desert fox.

The guy then put in a 145 main jet, I now have to downgear in traffic all the time and gettin 139km on small tank. So now contemplating should I put bigger jet in again or just put on the stock exhaust. I enjiyed gim as a monster and if I knew then what I know now would have just left it. We dont really want to do it ourselves because of the needle thingie.

Anyways, so happy at least I dont have to commute by car now so thank thank you peeps



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Loving my Dr!!! Especially offroad


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