Carnet really necessary for car in Senegal and Gambia?
 

Some people say the rules in Senegal have just changed: we want to take a car older than 5 year through Senegal to Gambia to sell it there. Can we do it without a carnet? How about Gambia?
Please send recent information, thanks!

Hi,

Rules have just changed in last couple of years but to be honest the information is difficult as it seems to depend on the official on the day whether or not you will get into Senegal.

Some facts you will not be able to sell your car in Senegal - forget that. Gambia will also be difficult and you will need to make sure you get it registered properly.

A Carnet should help in getting into Senegal .

I will be doing this route in six months time but not selling my car.

Hi,

just back from the Gambia. You do not need a carnet for the Gambia. You can get a temporary permit (most of the time a 7 day valid document which can easily be extended for 1 month in Banjul).
Senegal is much easier with a carnet. Without carnet you either get a customs guy with you for 200 euro till you get out of the country (and have to pay for his expenditure on the way as well) or if they are in a good mood it seems sometimes they give a 2 or 3 day temporally permit. This is the latest news. I have not spoke to people who really got the 2-3 day temp. permit!!

Yep .. Its possible to enter Senegal Without a carnet.

Last April05 I was driving a 30 year old Landrover .. and -at the border- they toldme that I had to pay around 225 Euros for a customs' escort ,e tc..etc..etc.

at the end and with around 1 hour discussing the price , I got a 5-days transit permit (without the escort!) for 75 Euros handled directly to the customs' officer.

Most people at Zebrabar 'had a similar story with prices ranging from 50 to 150 Euros. But IT is definitely possible to get Senegal without the carnet or the Convoy .

Have fun.

Hi all,

Just had my Carnet Papers from the RAC and in it is an official letter from the Senegalese embassy saying from the 1st of June no vehicle will be allowed into Senegal without a Carnet that is over five years old.

So I will get one in October.

Andrew

Hi
The Senegalese Embassies are talking shit about this issue.Dont trust them , cos They don't got a clue (really the embassy don't know what's going on ) on these remote borders. Depending on the country (France , Spain , UK or Germany ) the Senegalese embassies tells a different Story.

Same as Mauritanian embassy in Spain which tells people that carnet is compulsory and that visas are NOT issued at the border (both facts are wrong)


That 5-year old law hast been around for 2.5 years and its EASENING a bit now .. 1 year ago there were reports of people stranded in no-mans land , and the like.

Indeed ITs only a north border (Diamma % rosso) thing ... and the law itself is unheard of in other borders.

But I insist that the trend is pay some ammount -for sure less than the cost of your carnet 75-150 Euros - to the customs' officer and they'll let you in with a smile and give you all the needed paperwork (ITs called "passavant'"

My experience (and all the people I talk to in Africa , as that's a common conversation topic) is that the situation is getting better and now is grossly obvious that -with some ammount of bribbery- you get in without a carnet.

Indeed , you can cross Africa without a carnet ... regardless what embassies say. 100 Euros is 3-5 months salary for these fellas , so they can't avoid letting you in for these ammount. They got the passavant' book (as they need to for local taxies , trucks , etc.. ) so Its their golden chance to earn 3 months pay in one day. Just insist .. and you will get in.

-a personal trick - for crossing borders without carnet / insurance/ papers , you name it :


while bribing try not to insist too much and stick to a quantity (say 50-80 euros) .. and when the officer refuses ... then pretend not to be in a hurry and tell him that OK .,you wait for the next turn's officer.
Then .. they visualize that Its their colleage and not him the one which is gonna take all that Cash !!! and suddenly accept any offer you do.

Use it wisely .
Javier

Hi, we'll be attempting to get to Gambia and leave a vehicle there for around six months before coming back for it to continue our trip.

Are we going to manage it without a carnet?

Any more thoughts? or recent experiences entering Senegal?

This carnet-business is confusing. I'll be driving under Ghanaian license plate. The Ghanaian Licensing Authority issues an "International Certificate for Motor Vehicles GHANA", which, they state, is linked to some International Convention of April 24, 1926. And it is with this document that I've traveled from Ghana to Togo, Burkina, Mali.
Is this another version of the notorious carnet (that could also take me into Senegal)?
And if not: do I need to get one somewhere in Ghana or elsewhere?

No . That's not a carnet ,but either way, you dont' need a Carnet if your vehicle is registered in Most African countries.

Javier

Hi . The only tricky country is Senegal , which won't accept cars older than 5 years old without a Carnet IN THEIR NORTHERN BORDER ONLY . Therefore you can get into Senegal via Mali (as most people do nowdays) hassle-free .

alternatively you can bribe your way in , and cross via DIAMA (around 100 Km west of Rosso) , for a undetermined bribe amount . This *often* ranges from 70 to 150 Euros per car , and much less for motorbikes. This is much less than the cost of the carnet itself , let alone the security . Not to speak the hassle !.

This money entitles you to a PAssavant , which is a permit to drive your car for around 10 days in Senegal.

Id definitely go to Diama .. and wouldnt worry at all about the Carnet. Everyday dozens of cars cross to Senegal by paying the unnoficial bribe in Diama.

Cheers.

Cheers Javier, that's helpful.

Do you know what the situation is for leaving a car in Gambia or Senegal for a long period of time (say 6-12 months) without a carnet?

Is it possible or are the passavants arranged on a monthly basis only?

Quote from javier: "No . That's not a carnet ,but either way, you dont' need a Carnet if your vehicle is registered in Most African countries."

Thank you Javier, that's great! It surely makes life a lot easier.

If somebody could tell me what "most African Countries" means, though, or where I can find such information, then I'd be all the way off the hook. Ghana is often the exception to the rule, among its French speaking neighbours.
Otherwise I guess I'd just give it a try. Thanks.

Mana

HI ..

well , I can only speak about my experience .. I drove a Spanish reg bike from Madrid to Gambia ... and well , It wasnst easy but definitely doable without a Carnet.

however ... most and most people are opting now for registering the motorcycle in any African country . I did that with my bike in The Gambia . Since then , I roam freely into any countries (Gambia , Senegal , GuineaBis , GuineaCon , SierraLeona ) without any hassle at all . It actually seem to be a different law for African registered bikes. They start asking for money , passavant , etc.. etc.. and as soon as they discover the African plate .. they don't bother you at all any more .

Indeed , in GuineaBissau , Conakri and Mali .. I am not carrying any Passavant at all . I mean At all. Just crossing the border as If I would be riding a bicicle. When I ask for a Laiize passe , they tell me that west african vehicles don't need passavants , and so far .. I have been no asked for it . However , I still pay insurance .

I really think that -other than Morrocco / Egypt- one can cross the whole of the continent with little or no papers at all *as someone said here , with little more than a number plate stencil on a cardboard* . They don't care , they don't mind , iTs not their business . and Its getting even better (for us) .
Last time in BAmako , half of the people (with EU cars) didnt have both the papers , or even worse any PAssavant *at all* . Of course no one had insurance , and policement just don't care. Its not like here *at home* that driving a unregistered , uninsured car would mean probbably prison .

Over there , they simply don't care , and =at worst= you will allways be able to fix your situation with a few Euros.

On the other hand , being caught with a counterfeit Carnet is much more serious offense , which lands some tourists into Ghannan prisons every year.

Carnet really necessary for car in Senegal and Gambia?
 

Javier this is useful info, however can you, or anyone else come to that, tell me how you go about registering a vehicle in Gambia or more usefully to avoid Senegal hassles in ,say RIM? Do they actually need to see the vehicle because if not surely there is no reason why you couldn't get a mate locally to do the paperwork, send you some license plates and, lo, all carnet hassles gone!

Does this just apply to bikes or can you do it with any vehicle? I have a good mate in Mali and a big Merc truck hence my interest.

How do you get around local customs duties? Do you keep the bike on local plates when you return home or just put the old plates back on etc etc?

All info gratefully received........

best wishes

Q

HI !!

I can tell you only for the Gambia .. which is the only place I got experience in registering a vehicle . For a motorbike .. It was around 30-40 Euros .. including duty. On top of that , you need the plates.. (at that time the ONLY plate-printing machine in Gambia was broken ) so I had to pay someone to draw the numbers by hand .

I *may* remember that registering a car in Mauritania was around 200-250 Euros *all dutys included* . In Gambia probbably less .

Definitely don't worry about Senegal . AS long as you enter via Mali .. they don't mind at all about not having a carnet. If you enter via north (*St Luis /Rosso/Diama ) then you'll have to pay a fee , but still on the region of 100 Euros. ITs only once .. and Its only there . I think on it as a toll or as a ferry . ITs not fair... but heck ! Is not tha much money . Apparently the whole village of diama makes their living from the money extorted to tourists so .. after all .. its not that bad.


What I definitely don't know is if it is possible to register a car "remotely" .. but sounds really interesting .. Good Idea. . I am fliying there this wednesday , and have a look around .. 'cos that could be the solution fo a lot of people's troubles !!!

Having said that ... as soon as most and most poeple do the African number plates thing .... I am sure that the authorities will start complaining about another thing .. or probbably a new law about ("Tourists driving African-reg cars") . Sooner or later..

JAvier

African plates
 

Hi everybody.

I'm wondering about this driving under African license plates and registering in an African country. Mind me, I don't know anything about bikes, but let me tell you what I know about cars.

As a devt. worker in Ghana, I'm allowed (with a letter from the Dutch embassy) to import one car without paying import tax. The idea is that I'll take the car out again after my contract. But if I want to sell my Jimmy (Suzuki) here, the person would have to pay around 2000 Euro import tax.
I also still have an old Toyota Landcruiser (1987) without official papers - don't ask me about the story - which I'm trying to sell. I'm being told that it will cost about 4000 Euro to import it, because of its weight. In fact, there's lots of people here in East Ghana, driving around with a Togolese number plate: the car was bought from the Freeport in Togo and 'once they have the money' (in a thousand years to come), they will import it officially.

In Benin it was the same story. I don't remember the amounts exactly, but they were substantial, including for the bike of a friend of mine.

So I wonder about the cheap registration you managed, Javier!! It definetely sounds good!!

Apart from this, I also have a question. I'm really trying to find out some things about getting to Europe with an african plate, which is not common on these pages, since most people do it the other way around. But Javier (or others), may be you can help me.

The ANWB (Dutch RAF) will only give me a car-insurance for Europe if I have a dutch plate. So who knows a (cheap) insurance companyt that can get me an insurance for Europe? (Spain, France, Belgium, Germany, Holland). I also saw something somewhere about a carnet for Spain... Now please, I was too happy to be off the hook in Africa because of the african plates, I hope Europe is not going to bother me in my ghanaian car with carnets, are they?!

Looking forwrd to answers!

Mana

Carnet in Senegal and Gambia
 

Hiya,

Okay I came back from Gambia in February and let me try and tell you the situation in Senegal and Gambia regards vehicles. I am now recovering from a near fatal accident in Senegal on the 30th of January and haven't really been able to face posting. See my post in main forum.

You will not get into Sengal via Rosso without a Carnet - they will impound your car. Using a fake Carnet means instan arrest and a minimum of five years in jail. There are lots of cars impounded at Rosso for this very reason.

Rosso is awful - hassle and in the end I used a fixer - he was brilliant.

Every few miles you will be stopped by Gendarmerie, customs, Police, uncle tom cobbly and you will go through a ritual of Carnet, Insurance, passports, driving licence, yellow fever, 2 x triangle, fire extinguisher, spare bulbs and even mobile phone! You are missing any of these except the mobile phone and they will fine you. Or stop you completely (No carnet in serious trouble unless under 5 years old)

I met one french couple and for not having an extinguisher ever few miles they were fined 10 euros. They got one by the time they reached St Louis and had been relieved of 100 euros.

If you go near Dakar it gets worse. I did and it got worse.

Any car that is right hand drive is now not allowed into Gambia without a carnet without exception. You must have the Carnet - this is from my friend who is a Brigadier in the Gambian army. I also checked this out with the border guys entering Gambia. They are getting tough on vehicles as they are trying this year and next year to start MOT's of a kind and they do nto want unroadworthy vehicles entering the country. Checkpoints are much less in Gambia.

It really isn't worth the hassle for a Carnet that you can get for £165 UK pounds.

Yours

Andy (Was a 110 Defender still in Dakar and now a Discovery which is with me in England)

well , in Africa nothing is "forbidden" and nothing is "allowed" . The line in beetween is too blurry .. and easyly moved deppending on your bargaining abilities.

Rosso is really tought if you don't have a Carnet. Not impossible ,but much more difficult.

That's the reason all people without a carnet prefers to cross via Diama (see several posts here about it ) in which you can cross for around 100 Eur.

If you got a PassaVant ,then you have exactly the same right to drive trought Senegal than having a Carnet. Exactly the same. They expect you to have a carnet , but if you show them a Passavant Its exactly the same.

REgarding Gambia... well , dont know really for RHD cars. I heard that ITs impossible to sell them in Gambia , but for tourists... dunnow. A friend of mine is driving a UK Mondeo to Banjul ( no carnet , of course ) to Gambia. I ll let you know how it goes , but I am ready to bet a few pints that It will make it to Banjul.


The more times I go to West Africa (and I am back home just a few days from UK->Morocco->Mauri->Senegal->Gambia->Guienea->Mali->Burkina->Niger -without Carnet- ) is that you can do whatever you wish , with a bit of " knowledge" . I have met people driving their cars without carte-gris at ALL (me for example)!!! Same with Visas.. .they are a joke. You get them wherever you want , and if not , you can bribe your way in with the utmost difficulty.

I can tell you endless stories of how the "impossible " in Africa becomes possible just with a few beers/Cadeaux in exchange. Just don't look too rich and too in a hurry and It will do !

Good to hear you are back home safely .

Javier

Hi Javier

Do I take it you didn't get any further with the the idea of registering vehicles locally?

Best wishes
Q

I won't redo my entire post but in April we got two vehicles to the Gambia through Senegal without carnet, gambia only because we had a letter of authority from the police as a charity, but senegal was done in both directions on a passevant.

found the same probs with fire extinguishers etc, we had them but they tried all sorts of tricks to extract money from us. the post is on this forum subject under - 'senegal hassles'

Andy
TLC H60
landy 101ambie/camper
1968 morris minor traveller
www.plymouth-dakar.com

Hi !!

Sorry , I didnt saw your post until now .

Yep , I did it . REgistered the bike (a 600 XL) in Gambian plates , paid duty , etc... and now I got an African Bike !!!! you can see it at the banner of my web http://viajesyaventuras.mywowbb.com/ Look the black number plate .. Its Gambian !!

Since then , I didnt had any problems at all at borders. I don't get even a passavant/laizepasse nothing at all . Just drive as If I drive a bicycle. Definitely the 30quid better spent in Africa. The bike now is in Nyamey parked for a few months , waiting the issues at Chad to ease down a bit.

A car is somehow much more pricey , on the region of 100 -200 Euros in Gambia.


REgarding entering Gambia... Its probbably the easiest country to bring a car in . I have never had any problem at all .

Actually in a week I am gonna drive that RHD mondeo to Banjul (as my friend couldnt) , and I hope , that will show you all again (the 5th time) , that it is perfectly possible , legal , and hassle free to drive a car from London to The Gambia.

Have a nice day.