Riding with a torn ACL (Knee ligament)
 

Yesterday I tore my Anterior Cruciate Ligament in my knee. Not only is it excruciatingly painful, it's turned my knee to jelly and I can't walk on it (YET)...

I think im going to need surgery as once a ligament is torn, it can only be reconstructed. IT WONT HEAL !! But, the NHS waiting list is 6-12 months.

I'm commited to a UK-Capetown trip this September and I just can't back out of it. I'm planning on going anyway but I could be asked to go for the op while im away..

Has anyone ridden in a similar condition ?? Any hints and tips ? Advice ??

I'm going to invest in a quality hinged knee support but I can't see what else I can do.

Bl**dy hell Ted, how did you do that. With your knee and Neil's wrists you're not being sponsored by the air ambulance are you?

I friend of mine did exactly the same about two months ago in a skiing accident. She had the scans to confirm it just before Easter and it'll be late summer before she gets anything done. Even after two months she can just about hobble with a stick - and her's wasn't completely snapped. After surgery she was told it'll be weeks and weeks of recovery. Sorry if that's not what you want to hear but unless you can do something to get round the waiting lists I don't think it'll be a quick fix.

Playing football..... I'm a bit of a nutter when it comes to sports. I "popped" my knee last year and left it to heal on its own. Bad idea it seems as it's left a weakness.

TWO MONTHS !!! Holey crap... That's not what I wanted to hear. After 24 hours im already walking about, be it with a stick ! I'm really hoping to be back on the bike within a week.

Yeah.. Me and Neil should be sponsered for sure. We'd be better off driving an ambulance to Capetown lol.

On a more serious note, this has seriously thrown my plans into chaos !! I could get the op this summer but I would have to cancel my trip for rehab or go to Africa and just hope it will be ok and get the op after... :helpsmilie:

If you're already walking around, it's not a serious tear. I know someone who skied for two decades on a partial tear, but eventually he had the surgical repair....and he's an animal.

Obviously, you're more at risk with a partial tear than with an intact ACL, so if you're going to Africa in that state you need to be really clear about what you can do and (more important) what you can't. It's ridiculously easy to shred your ACL completely--one wrong step, one slip on a wet patch of grass, or presumably one errant dab while riding. Stiff boots endanger your ACL even more by eliminating the ankle flex which might otherwise save your ligaments.

You need better advice, more specifically adapted to your specific situation, than you can get on the internet. Plus with knees it always helps to get a second professional opinion.

Hope that helps.

Mark

Well, im not walking.. Im hopping with a walking stick ! I can't put any weight on that leg at all.

I've been to A&E and they sent me home with Ibuprofen and told me to see my GP if it didn't get better. I didn't expect anything more from them to be honest. I saw a Physio yesterday (a friend) and he said its a grade 2-3 tear. He said I really need to see an Orthopedic Surgeon to be sure as he's more involved with the post surgery than diagnosis.

I'm glad to hear that it's not the end of the world. From further research, many people go their whole lives without having the surgery but as you say Mark, one bad twist and thats it !! And knowing my luck, that will be in the middle of the Sahara ! And trust me to have the biggest stiffest boots on the market.... :(

Tough.

Not quite the same as you, I have a right knee problem from too much mogul skiing and running the streets of London for many years, earlier in my life. I have worn away the miniscus layer of the bone end (the sort of shiny teflon type layer) such that the raw bones grind on each other.
The reason for telling this is to say that I use a neoprene knee support for most physical activity, upgrading to a more sophisticated, stabilised, hinged one for skiing. They make the activities still enjoyable and pain free.
Although I took them on SibEx, I never had a problem or pain while riding so I never used them.

Quite honestly, think what your forthcoming trip is worth to you in terms of costs or loss. A good few thousand pounds I am sure. A couple of hundred pounds spent privately seeing an orthopedic consultant, specialising in sport injuries, for an assessment and advice is not going to push the budget up too much. For the cost of a pair of good tyres you will have better advice than you will ever pick up from a BB.
And I am sure it will be more meaningful than a cup of tea and asprin at A&E!

Good luck.

Hi Ted Football again, That's why I watch now and don't play!
I did my cartilage and finally my ligament in the 04 Weston, it took the NHS a year to fcuk it properly and now its 2010 and I often limp, I'd been better off having nothing done at all, just try and rest and pray it improves, don't put your trip/life on hold waiting for the NHS clowns to possibly be incompetent!

there seems to be quite a lot of people that have had this injury. In my case, I proper knackered my knee, ACL, cartlidge, meniscus, etc.
I still did a 2 up trip in Europe, but, it caused no end of trouble, once whilst kneeling down without thinking to check the chain, I almost passed out with the bolt of pain, the knee had a habit of collapsing backwards at inoportune moments, and this was a soft trip by your standards.
Iain of this site, rode for a couple of years with a bust ACL, but eventually got it fixed.
Personally, I think if you fall off the bike awkwardly again, you may not be able to walk properly for quite some time. fine in europe, but dodgy elsewhere.

Did you wear a support ??? Did you ever find yourself stranded ??

That is my main concern.. Twisting my knee on a rough road in the middle of nowhere.

With an knee strain, it's impossible to walk let alone ride.. I've had a few of my less educated friends saying "man up" or "walk through it".. They seriously have NO IDEA !!

Ted,

I'd agree with Tony. Try to get it sorted ASAP. Stick it on your plastic and worry about it later.

BYT

You are not going to want to hear this but....

Get it repaired before you go; if you have to delay your trip, so be it. Converting a partial tear to a full tear in Africa - almost inevitable I would say - will be inconvenient to say the least - and your insurance will not cover this pre-existing condition.

Consider a private op to get it down more quickly if you have the cash.

I had same problem and I lived 12 years whit it before the surgical repair. It's fu.. painfully but you can manage with a neoprene knee support or even more sophisticated, stabilised, hinged one like Thor. Here in Finland you can get the surgical repair and mine cost some 3000€ on private clinic, DYI that wasn't the clinic what Beckham used :innocent:.
After six weeks I was able to ride some trails with hinged knee supporter but I did lot of training every day and met my Physio three times a week.
You can also try to live with it but things in side of you knee are going wrong direction all the time when time pass and leg is coming weaker and heeling after surgery will be longer.
So like Tony P said "Quite honestly, think what your forthcoming trip is worth to you in terms of costs or loss."
:thumbup1:

Jeeez !! I don't know what to do...

Private is out of the question. From what i've learnt, it's about £5000 ! I'm just not in a position to even consider that and it's not going on plastic (Debts and loans have ruined my life in the past)

I'm going to demand to see an Orthopedic Surgeon and see what he says about it..

I know it's risky (and stupid) to travel like this, but sometimes risks are what life is about..

BUT !!!!!! If I can't have the surgery for 9 months (average NHS waiting time), I'll be back by then anyway...

Putting my trip off for a whole year does seem total madness. I'm working a shit job that I hate and living in my mums spare room... The only thing keeping me sane in this country (for many reasons) if that I know im getting away in September.

On the other hand... Will I enjoy the trip with that in the back of my head. Too scared to go offroad, climb mountains etc.

Ahhhh this sucks !!

What if you could get the repair done privately for much less, say £1500? Is that feasible?

Well, affordable at a push but still a bitter pill when I pay a shit load of tax to have a national health service which will do it for "free"...

How could I get it so cheap ?? Fly to Romania ? Russia ?

Not going to be with Dr Nick is it? :eek3:

Dr. Nick Riviera - Simpsons Wiki

That's the first thing that came to my mind too :rofl:

Your best bet would be either Bangkok General or Bumrungrad in Bangkok. It would be worth investigating Singapore as well. I take your point about your tax and the NHS, but that's the Labour Govt for you....

I've been doing rather a lot of research about riding with f**ked knees !

It seems rather a lot of people ride motorcross, trails and enduro with knees of jelly... Usually caused because it of it lol.

I might Invest in an EVS RS7 motocross knee brace. They seem to get the best "value for money" reviews and have proved very good in providing support against twists and sprains while on or off the bike.

Not the most comfortable thing in the world and getting pretty professional, but it could end up a lot cheaper than cancelling my trip for a year.

Maybe a good compromise ??

EVS RS7 Knee Brace - MX1 Fox Racing | Dirtsport | Fox Racing Clothing | Geared Up | Motocross | Eyewear | Mountain Bike | Monster Energy

http://blog.ridermagazine.com/upload...01/EVS_RS7.jpg

after problems with my knee, I bought a pair of these : POD MX

http://www.fc-moto.de/WebRoot/FCMoto...Knee-Brace.jpg

Now they look the business !!! £250 EACH though..

How are they off the bike ??? Do you wear them under normal riding trousers or baggy MX pants ??

I'll leave off on a brace until 6 weeks before I leave and decide then..

It least I know there is a way I can ride without becoming a cripple :thumbup1:

If you have surgery, for the 1st month of healing, it is is quite easy to lose the graft. then you are proper knackered. There is a strict regime of physio therapy. have a look at this:


ACL Reconstruction, ACL Surgery, Anterior Cruciate Ligament Reconstruction: UK

I was lucky and got surgery quite quickly, it was successful enough for me to get back to practicing karate after 12 months , never mind riding the bikes.

After the accident, I strapped the knee into a stable position using a honda cg125 shock as a splint and ratchet strap. It made the thing usable enough to get to my local hospital. Certainly gave A&E a giggle.

Hi Ted, simply put you are burying your head and hoping - you simply need to face facts - if your going to do your trip you need to be healthy before you leave - would you be able to pick up your bike, push it through mud or out of a river bed. Are you going to leave all that to your mate. What about the day your mate has to leave you at the side of the road in the middle of no where looking for help its not fair on him. these are only tiny bits of the jigsaw. You will be pushing yourself on the trip if you were fit if your injured you will be sign the trip to failure, and maybe huge costs of repatriation -and you wont be insured. The world will still be there in a years time if you go now and cause more damage it may be your last trip - as you may end up never walking again after a bigger injury somewhere in Africa. You need to re approach the NHS try to get a cancelation or urgent op anywhere in the country.Check out the rights and rules Under the Patients charter - and start rattling sabres about your rights if you get no joy any other way, maybe you can travel to Germany or France through the Nhs for Treatment if the NHS can not do it in a short time - But whatever you do Get yourself sorted first - simply put at some stage somewhere you will regret it if you do not.

Dr Doom - Aka - Jake.

If you can wait until the second week of may, I can give you a better idea. Then I am back from a two week journey off-road in Morocco.
I wear them under my BMW Rallye Pro 2 trousers with the original knee protection removed. For sure you are better without them once you are off the bike, but you have to make compromises.

I will wait with baited breath................ Good luck on your trip !

I went to see my GP today.. Luckily, he specializes in Orthopedics :thumbup1:

He said iv badly sprained or partially torn my "Medial Collateral Ligament". Possibly my ACL too, but it's still too swollen to tell properly. It needs to settle down before he can do a proper diagnosis.

I explained my situation and he said that plenty of people compete at high levels of sport with torn acl's and there are plenty of people out there with torn ligaments but don't even know it.

He said by the time I go to Africa, it will probably be stable enough to confidently use and with a support/brace, I should be ok.

Obviously, i'll know more in 2 weeks time.

I've bought a hinged knee brace and i'm walking around without a stick already but my knee does feel very unstable.

Ted - I lived with a torn ACL for ten years - and it's a right royal pain in the ass. It went all the time - in the shower, playing footie (stupid) and even just climbing over a gate. I found it often went whilst I was drunk, as I wasn't on guard and was prone to stupidity. It's a horrible feeling when you feel the wobble and then the snap. It really really really is worth fixing up asap. Obviously I wasn't as sensible as my own advice.

But, the last time it went was in Cape Town, where I happened to be on a training course. I took advantage of my cheap insurance, and got it operated on by some of the finest knee surgeons of the world at Newlands Sports Clinic.

Orthopaedic Clinic Cape Town | Sports Injuries Surgery | Knee Injury

As way of warning, the doctor told me I was borderline knee replacement candidate, which would mean surgery every ten years or so. Luckily they could still staple it back together and the knee is great now, 12 years later.

Remember though, if you do use your insurance, say it's the first time it's happened! The doctors know full well it isn't and don't care as long as you are being operated on, the insurance will only pay if you have a new condition.

Good luck either way. And take it EASY!

Cheers for the reply !! Great advice !

10 years !!! WOW.. Braver man than me ! No wonder you're knee was borderline.

Sadly, my injury is recorded at the doctors now so insurance probably won't cover it but he has only recorded it as a sprain. At the moment anyway.

I really am going to try and get this fixed ASAP !! My only choice is the NHS. Purely financial. I'm at the mercy of their waiting lists and bacteria infested vermin ridden hospitals.
If I had the money, i'd be in BUPA's waiting room right now with my bum showing out of a gown.

I'm not going to take any stupid risks.. I have a good hinged support which I will wear and i'm not taking any risks with sports. Football can wait !

The doc said i'm managing better than most, probably because I have strong stocky legs and great hamstrings which really help in knee stability.

I'm going away on the bike on Friday morning for the weekend so that will be a test. Probably a little stupid but i'm only on a very light DRZ and only riding light A-roads. I have to meet up with some potential African riding buddies to get visas sorted for North Africa so I don't have much choice... I don't own a car btw ! lol.

So it now appears you don't even know if your ACL is involved. MCL is a whole different animal. Take it easy for a while and get properly diagnosed before getting all worked up about it.

The above advice is worth approximately what you paid for it.

Mark

The MCL is definately goosed. The doc said the ACL is probable but it's too swollen to know for sure yet..

I'm just assuming the worst as it's always best to plan for the worst.... Trust me, there's no one more than me that wants this to be a case of severe over-reaction :innocent:

If life's about taking risks, get yourself a £5k loan, get your knee sorted, and fully enjoy the trip.

haha ! I'm still paying off the 7K loan I took out to go to South America !!

Ted,

I did my acl about 12 years ago or so. Also done medial ligaments on other knee. I'm sure medical science has advanced but I doubt your GP could ever be 100% certain as to what you have done either without an arthroscopy or scan (not available when I did mine). You can probably go private for the arthroscopy (shouldn't be too much dosh just for a diagnosis but it should mean you jump the queue). Surgery was only recommended if you were pro sports person, but not guaranteed, much more invasive and a hell of a long recovery period.

Strengthening the muscles around the knee should see you ok for most things. I can still play footy and only get an odd twinge if I really twist it. Most other things (eg hillwalking) I can do with no issues at all.

Hope this helps

Dave

Asterisk Knee Braces

Pro Tip: Cti2 and Asterisk Knee Braces

The links above are for Asterisk Knee braces. They have been the #1 rated knee brace in the USA for years. Even better than CTI braces that cost 3 times more. They are about $500 but I've seen them used on Craigs list for two to three hundred USD. Good luck.

The Dirt Rider review above rated them "Product of the Year" some years back. Do some research and see what might work for you. Good luck!

Thanks for all the replies folks.. It's very encouraging.

Well, 2 months on from my accident... I can walk fine, ride fine and even cycle pretty well, but im far from fixed.

I can't run without shooting pains through my knee, it clicks when I bend it still doesnt feel stable.

The Doc is convinced I dislocated my patella and sprained my ligaments. I'm not convinced so I'm booking a private Physio session this week.

The good news is that I'm sure it's good enough to travel on. I WILL be wearing a knee brace on the bike though, just in case !!

Hey Ted,

Glad your improving well and the trip is still on!

How are the rest of your preparations going?

We've been on the road a month now and have been through France, Spain, Italy, Austria, Slovakia, Poland, Lithuania and are currently in Latvia. Still aiming to reach Africa at the end of August.

See you on the road to Cape Town!

Ride safe,

Matt & Kim

Great stuff ! I wish I was riding and not working lol.

Preperations going well. I think i'm almost done. Carnet application went in the post a couple of days back ! :thumbup1:

Sorry to reply only now. I've tested the knee brace during my off road trip in Morocco and I am extremely pleased. I wore only the right knee brace. It did the job perfectly. From now I will never drive without it. I could easily persist it all day, without the hassle of it. Below the knee braces I wore a sock that is used to put a leg in plaster. This works perfectly.

Thank's so much for the feedback. I'm still hoping that I won't need one but i'm really happy that there is a solution if I need it !

Hope you enjoyed your trip, ride safe !

Ted