Remote first aid for bikers - Interested?
 

Hi

Just looking for feedback:
Have just spoken to a company regarding a first aid course to possible run at HU next year. Basically its a motorbike course that we'll design to apply to remote travel. It will be HSE certificate at the end of it. The course would be a 9 hour (one day course) and taught by medical trained bikers and expedition leaders/mountain rescue teams in groups of about 15-20 people. The cost has been negotiated to approx £60pp (depending on how much interest). They are also prepared to give a presentation on first aid kits/where there is no doctor etc.

Being from a nursing background it does look like a great course but would love any feedback before i run it past Grant.

Thanks

Becky

Great idea - we had a basic first aid course tailored to suit our triathlon club last year and everybody who attended agreed it was well worth the effort.
I would definitely attend a motorbike travel first aid course.

drew

A great idea
 

Becky that's a great idea.

I did the Saint Johns First Aid for Motorcyclists course and am glad that I did. I have a feeling though that the course you want to put together might be better, being run by bikers and adventurers.

Perhaps it could be tagged onto the beginning or end of the meeting next time? (the day before might be better)

Sounds like a good idea

Can be any time
 

The guys are prepared to come any time to do the course - but bearing in mind it would be such small groups i thought that to get as many people on it then it would need to go across the whole weekend. Basically thursday through to sunday but again it depends on the interest.

If not i'm happy to do an hour or two on the same subject but it wouldn't have the certificate at the end. I could taylor it to what we want though?

sounds really useful, I'd be interested

Great idea, I'm very interested!

Very interested

Becky,
Sorry to break the sequence of previous posts but I feel I should let you know that I am not the slightest bit interested in going to a meeting of riders in order to sit through a 9 hour/1 day course so that I get a certificate at the end of it (yet another bit of paper in this paper-driven world of ours!)

Please don't let me put you off, I admire your enthusiasm, but I just wanted to let you know that there are other opinions and you should take that into account in judging what to do with your plans.

Good luck (just re-read this before pressing the button and it sounds harsh but ............it's my truth)

Hi Becky

I'm very keen on the idea of first aid training for travellers, but this has moved some way away from your original concept. I'm thinking of the scenario that you're some way from civilisation, with a fairly limited (because you're on a bike) accident and sickness first aid kit, and one of you either has a fall or becomes ill.

My fear is that the average person won't remember much of a nine-hour training course. Personally I think it should be MUCH shorter and focused in on the important bits.

Off the top of my head (and others might disagree) for accidents this might be ankle, leg, wrist, arm, collarbone. Add in D&V for sickness (what else?) And then recommendations for first aid kit contents. I've listed mine below.

SICKNESS MEDICAL KIT
thermometers
needle/syringe/suture kit
12x antihistamine
Witch hazel (bite/sting)
Lanacane anesthetic cream
12x Imodium (diarrhoea)
6x rehydration sachets
21x Ciprofloxacin antibiotic
16x Co-codamol (pain)
12x Paramol (paracetamol+)
6x Asprin
12x Ibuprofen
Voltarol NSAID
8x Sudafed
DayNurse
megazones pastilles
lipbalm
21x Amoxicillin antibiotic
21x Metronidazole antibiotic

ACCIDENT MEDICAL KIT
sterile field, gloves, scalpel
scissors, tweezers
antiseptic wipes
TCP antisetic liquid
duct tape
2x cohesive support bandage
1 9x25 dressings
1 10x10 dressings
2 8x6 dressings
2 5x5 dressings
2 8x5 gel dressings
variety of fabric plasters
micropore tape
thermal survival blanket
4x Co-codamol (pain)
Optrex eye drops
Ventolin inhaler
sunblock and wet wipes
cigarette lighter

Tim

I think a basic knowledge of first aid procedure is a good thing:thumbup1:
Especially bike related things, like how/when/if to safely remove a helmet, recovery position etc. The real issue (with me anyhow) is the stupid compensation culture we have, I'd hate to fall foul of that:thumbdown:
Imagine the scenario, you tend to someone in need, and then get sued for it, well in this country you would!
It's all very sad, but unfortunately true:(
Having said that, I still think it's a good idea.
The ambulance service are running a course at the moment, called FBOS (first bike on scene), have a look hereLancashire Ambulance Service NHS Trust - FBoS - FIRST BIKE ON SCENE

Another thing, all this elf and safely malarkey is going to bring the country to a grinding halt, according to this. Remembrance Day parade scrapped for first time in 60 years over 'health and safety' fears | the Daily Mail
It's okay to have a anti war etc march/demo, but not one to remember the fallen hero's, all very sad:confused1:
Apologies for straying off topic:oops2:


Trophymick

Don't worry about being sued
 

Mick

Although there are precedents for being sued in such circumstances, it is very rare for such actions to be successfull. I think there is a legal defence of using due care, and "due care" for FBOS at the roadside as someone's blood is draining into the gutter is much less than "due care" for a surgeon in a hospital with full theatre support. Having said that, I hope I never find myself waiting for a jury to vindicate my response, but I will still respond if I can. [Of course, in a perect world, I'll never see another accident because no one will have any, so there's no need to worry about compensation.]

To put the same into fewer words:

If you can help, do so, worry about the law later (it might be me lieing in the road).

First Aid
 

Becky,
Great idea and I'd be willing to join in. Preferable a day at either end of the meeting cos there's so much to do. From what I was informed on my last St John course two months ago is that worries about the threat of being sued after helping are covered by what is called 'The Samaritans' precept - I also think you would have to be a fairly callous individual if you didn't help on arrival at a scene.

Cheers

Al:thumbup1:

Given up on Idea
 

Thanks to all those who fed back. It seems the general feeling is that it would be too long which i completely agree with - but wanted to offer a proper course if people were interested.

I will probably still do my own presentation (if theres interest) which would be a short to the point essential talk.

As for good samaritans - I don@t have a choice as the Nursing code of conduct states that we have to stop at an accident if required and if we don't then we can be struck off - diffilcult to enforce but there as a threat!

I broke some ribs doing CPR but the guy survived and was quite happy to live with a few broken ribs!

As for good samaritans - I don@t have a choice as the Nursing code of conduct states that we have to stop at an accident if required and if we don't then we can be struck off - diffilcult to enforce but there as a threat!


Stopping at the scene of an accident as an ordinary person and using the good samaritan defence if things get legal subsequently is one thing, but as far as I understand, as a medical professional your expected standards - even if off duty- at the side of the road are higher than for the rest of us.

I know quite a few doctors who are extemely reluctant to get involved for this reason. Their (staggeringly large) MDU subscription provides legal backup for worktime problems but vulnerable to charges that they should have left it to the emergency services on duty

Hi there

Shame to hear it is scrapped.

I am coming to London in October after what will be 9 months on the road. Having been stitched up by someone who gave St John`s courses (lucky me- thankfully nothing critical), I am extremely keen to learn whatever I can as my preparation was not adequate had the situation been reversed.

Around this time if Becky or someone is going to offer something or has any suggestions on alternative courses, could you please email me through the HUBB as I expect I`ll be out of the `biker loop`for a few months getting set up.
thanks in advance if someone has their ear to the ground.

Hey Bec - sounds like a great idea and I'd be more than happy to come along - I qualified as a nurse in the UK quite a while ago now - then left the profession 18 months later - I must admit I don't recall the nursing code of conduct stating that I had to get involved in accidents outside my day job (A&E) and certainly not stating that I could be 'struck off' for not being involved.

If I were to withhold care in a professional environment - sure - my head is for the block - but in the street? I don't think that holds water - and I'm sure the RCN would support that view.

m

PS - I lost count of the ribs I broke when I was working - come to think of it I don't think I've ever seen CPR done without cracking a few - so don't stress it!

"Accident" and "sickness" kits .. well I'd call them "Trama" and Personal"
The Trama kit is to save a life... no bandaids .. some Asprin .. not for the pain relief but because they are blood thinners .. usefull for heart problems.. What is in here is stuff you need quickly ..

The personal kit is for bandaids, panadol, lipbalm etc. The comfort stuff.. long term care type stuff too.

You'd not try to teach a GPS beginer how to do every thing in 30 minutes.. same thing for "First Aid".
Here in Australia the "Remote Area First Aid" course takes 3 days. I think that is too quick. At the end of it you get a book .. well you actually get it at the begining .. some 300 pages from memory.. I bought another 3 books to give you an idea of teh amount of information avalible. The course is valid for 3 years .. at the end of that you are suposed to retake the course... things change .. Likwe anything else - if it is not practiced then you will loose teh skill/knowledge .. so I read the notes every now and then .. and sometimes a book.

In the USA thay have the "woofer" course .. about 9 days from memory ... I may well take that if I ever get to the states... and I'm fit enough to do it.

Yes you get a bit of paper at the end of it .. but in Australia you have to pass a test at the end .. and the pass mark is not 50%... and yes it is not worth anything .. well not unless you use the knowledge gained ..

A 30 minute first aid presentation is simply a sales presentaltion to convince you lot to do a proper course. A one day course will get you the basics for preserving a life for the first 30 minutes before help arives. If you need/want to do more than that then you need more time to get and practice the information ... at least that is my experience..