rabies? Yes or No?
 

Hi All,

going through the process of getting injections for trip from Canada to Ushuaia and been told two different things regarding rabies.

1. You need to get it.

2. Don't get it as it only gives you an extra hour to get to hospital for treatment?

What is people advise on this please. What have people done when travelling.

Some people might say just get it and its done ( cost near me is £200 ) is it really needed if statement 2 is true?

Thanks.

I believe it's an extra 24hrs, so you'd have 48 vs 24. We opted not to get them and my husband got bit by a dog in Russia. He got treated and had to get shots 5x over the next weeks across the stans. I think if you have been pretreated this cuts the number down to 4 from 5-6.

Eastern turkey up into the caucuses is rough for aggressive dogs, motorbike drives em nuts. But other areas we didn't have nearly as much problem. I remember visiting Ecuador years ago and there were tons of strays. But who knows how docile. At any rate if you ever get bit, do not take any chances & get treated, otherwise that's your a$$! Whether you want the extra time just in case is up to you. Be careful:)

Agreed the extra time is always worth it.. e.g trekking up in the Himalaya, or up on the Pamir Highway, you can be a good day or two from a decent clinic, and can't always rely on helivac due to weather..

We are embarking on a similar journey to yours on the 18th June. The advice from our local surgery was to get the rabies jabs as it buys you an extra 24 hours to get treatment. We considered the cost of £144 each to be a worthwhile insurance and provides peace of mind.

So far we've paid £408 for jabs for the two of us, certainly more than I had anticipated and worth taking into consideration when financially planning a trip. The only vaccination we can't get right now is Yellow Fever as the local surgery has had no stocks since last September. That, of course, will only mean more money when they do get some.

I was thinking of posting similar question myself. Wife and I will be in eastern Turkey und into Georgia this year so interesting to see responses to this. So far it looks like we get jabed up !

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Yep, eastern Turkey has been also for me so far the only place in +50 countries ridden, where I´ve actually been attacked by large dogs that roamed free...... in fact only one mountain pass area or region near Dogubayazit, but it was damn scary! Decided not to stop, just use the horn and go full throttle, and they backed off at the last minute... I don´t know, what would have happened, if I had stopped. I had taken rabies jabs before leaving home.

Do remember, that not only dogs can carry it, it´s also possible to get infected by bats, monkeys and several other animals. Also remember, that their saliva is infectious, so just simply best to completely keep away from any physical contact with animals, no matter how cute. This is something you do NOT want to fool around with, because it is a 100% lethal disease.

Note, that if you are in a faraway area, and suspect you might have got infected, getting somewhere where counter-jabs are available, in 24 hrs, can be hard. That´s when having the jabs beforehand can become helpful (you will still need those extra jabs after a suspected infection, but you have more time to get them).

I would not lose sleep over this, the risk is much smaller than having a bad traffic accident in basically any developing country, for example. Just follow the precautions, and depending on areas, where you´ll be going, make a decision, whether you´ll take the jabs or not.

(sorry a bit off-topic, but just asking if anyone has had similar experiences in the place mentioned below?)

Marked with red is where I had my pulse-raising encounter with the big dogs... this was back in 2007, but if my memory serves me right, it was the Tendurec Gecidi pass, where there was a huge old lava flow right next to the road on the Lake Van side. And dogs were only a problem up in the pass area itself, just there where the road goes very very close to the border of Iran. There were some dwellings that looked like shepherd huts, maybe they were actually their dogs:

http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/...ps2e5c3eb7.jpg

What good is money when you are dead? Isn't any trip about (mostly) the celebration of life? and the discovery of amazing lands/customs/people/food/etc etc?

Your health and well being is everything. Without it, any trip, heck, even staying at home, can be hell.

If you ever were so unlucky as to be bitten and infected with Rabies and you were not inoculated, IMHO I'd guess you'd gladly pay £1000 an hour to buy you time before... you died in a terrible and painful way.

Be wise- get your jabs- £200 is nothing compared to the potential consequences of not getting those injections.
That's my 2 pence!

100% YES, get jabbed
 

I may as well put in my 2cents worth'...yes indeed, you'd be crazy not to get the 'vaccine'

That is some seriously valuable time it can buy you, especially in SA where you can be days away from a doc and a shot. That's 1 cent's worth

My other cents' worth of comments is about what I believe is the over-hype about attacks or illnesses from animals. 10 years on the road continuously...never ONE incident/disease caught from an animal, and trust me, I pat them ALL

HUMANS, on the other hand, now those are the ones we should get vaccinated against. man have I caught some nasty crap from other people :)))
Just a thought. Risk is minimal but always best prepared.

That area in eastern turkey was the worst, we rode at night and the crazy dogs kept coming out of the darkness. They were almost certainly sheep dogs over there. The best tactic is to keep moving, do NOT stop. Jeff got bit because we were rolling up to a Russian police checkpoint north of vladikavkaz & the cops motioned us to stop. We were attacked by 3 psychotic dogs & the police could not keep them away. We gunned it out of there but when we checked him down the road his leg had some nasty teeth punctures. Fortunately Russian hospitals though crappy, know exactly what rabies is. Needless to say after that I really steer clear of strange animals.

Then...we got to Bangkok and met up with a friend. He told us he had just gotten treated with rabies shots there (which in Thailand is VERY expensive unlike Russia which was always free). He was patting the pet dog of an American embassy worker and it bit him. He wisely took no chances and got the shots.

All y'all animal lovers want to pet anything cute but you can't trust those animals to be disease free. Please be careful. Even if you get the rabies vaccine you still MUST get treated swiftly!

Pete,
I am not a doctor but a friend of mine is a scientist in charge of a lab where they design these vaccines. I am in the process of getting my Rabies shots for trip to Mongolia! It is a judgement call but this is the whole story; the difference between being vaccinated or not does indeed provide you with a theoretical extra 24 hours... BUT (big BUT) when you are vacinated (3 shots), you only need two more similar vaccine shots 1 day and 3 days after the bite and you are good to go. These additional vaccine shot are (or should) be normaly available in any city! If you plan to go to Brazil, FYI, Brazil is a rabies hotspot.

If you are NOT vacinated you will need a shot with 15ml SERUM (something entirely different) within 24 hours directly into the wound (extremely painfull) and that serum is very difficult to come by in remote area's. A giant country such e.g. Indonesia has none of it! Even here in the Netherlands it is only stocked in three places. Expect that none of it will be available in coutries like Peru and Equador! This means you will need an emergency Medivac to a country where they have the Serum and you will be tied down for minimum 3 weeks for after treatment.

On top of that note that Rabies is the ONLY virus with a 100% mortality rate! No Cure Possible. (Ebola with a mortality rate of some 50% and Marburg with 70% are benigh compared to Rabies)

Now ask your self again! :confused1:

Cheers,
Noel

yep I won´t pet animals in faraway countries. But everybody´s free to do as they see fit, this possibility is still good to keep in mind.

This is what happens if you go about 'patting' humans on your travels :rofl:

go prepared !
 

Well I'm in no doubt about my thoughts on this topic now after seeing the references to Eastern Turkey, where the wife and I will be this year.

As well as getting jabbed up, I plan to issue my pillion with spare sausages. These will be deployed when attack dogs are detected in a random pattern from the rear of the bike. Rather like America's "Air-force-One" would deploy ant-missile decoys. Hopefully that will allow safe escape. Now...............? do I cook them first or not? :helpsmilie:

However...........I'm sure there are far more people pass these snarling dog packs without injury, illness or indeed worse,

Thanks all for all the info, I will be getting the shots now,

Bertrand The money was never an issue, was just putting it up there for people to know how much it was. I just wanted peoples opinion on what they had done and came across on there travels, as you say how much do you value your life.


@ noel di pietro - very insightful info there, thanks.

@Laura73 - Yes, totally agree there,

Rabies - yes or no
 

No question - rabies is a killer, and motorcyclists are an easy target for aggresive dogs, even if they don't have rabies.
I too have been attacked on the Dogbayazit road, it's no joke to have large dogs after you.
Almost any mammal can carry rabies, you will find your owen level of trust by observation, but you must assume the worst case first, the shots are a relativly cheap insurance.

Peter, in Oslo

My two pesos worth. I'm an animal lover, write books about animals (one about street dogs in Latin America), pet them, get along well with them. Never bothered with the jab for the Americas. I've never heard of a case of rabies here. However in Asia, Africa, the incidence of rabies is much higher! Getting a vaccination is tough on your body. Choose wisely!

Thanks especially Lorraine I agree never heard of dog rabies in South America but in eastern Turkey 2 years ago we were warned. I encountered a rabid bull in Costa Rica.

Anyone know how many years the preventive injections are good for? In 1966 I had a series of rabies injections in my stomach as mandated for Peace Corps volunteers serving in Costa Rica.

High boots and good throttle have avoided all incoming thus far... I like the flinging of meat aft by pillion. Need a deployment system for those of us who fly solo.
Xfiltrate

First I was chased by dogs in east Turkey, but that was easy on a lonely road, just accelerate and they could not follow....... but maybe 3-4 times, the dog(s) entered the road ahead of us, and run towards us, with their teeth exposed, now that was a totally different ballgame..... maybe someone needs to develop some sort of ´Sausage Thrower´ for this purpose :rofl:

Rabies VERY nasty, I have had the inoculations, and would really recommend you get them, it's not just dogs that can give it to you:

foxes, bats, skunks and coyotes. Wolves, weasels, badgers, mountain lions and other mammals can also have rabies. (even bears but the is extremely rare)

Fish, birds and reptiles aren’t mammals, so they can’t carry the disease.

Not to forget cats and monkeys. Woun't pet a badger or wolf easily :taz:but domesticated monkeys and cats can be tempting. And infected animals are not alsways crazy with rage, they can also become very docile and affectionate! Simpel rule to follow is; never touch any mammals dead or alive.

yep the monkeys at the Monkey Temple in Kathmandu have a taste for blood!

I had this dilemma before my trip. I got the rabies jab, never (to my knowledge) got bitten, and came home alive. £150+ is a lot of money but those 24/48 hours might save your life. And rabies is a horrible way to die.

On a more general note (and I'm sorry if this angers anyone) I think we all have a moral responsibilty to take what we can to aid our health. The countries we travel through are (almost always) less well developed than our own and it's OUR choice to go there. Dare I say I think the traveller who doesn't take precautions (and don't kid yourself you CAN afford it) is being selfish. You'll be using scarce resources if you get ill and rely on help. Be it rabies, malaria or anything else if you can afford to go on a trip you can afford to pay for the drugs - and if the drugs weren't available at home I bet you'd be crying out for them to be.

Pay the money, protect yourself, have a great trip.

Dead right.......

It's not 24 hour hour rule as much as not needing that rare, extra shot that the vaccination saves you from...

In South America, feral dogs are everywhere. They live on the outskirts of most towns and villages and they just LOVE to chase motorbikes. I was glad of my MX boots when I had to kick my way through a pack of dogs with 2-3 of them trying to nip and my feet. A stern Alpinestars Tech 10 to the face and a twist of the throttle and they give up...

Get the shot....

did you take it up the rear ?
 

Research has thrown up something interesting on this. I wonder of the people who have had Rabies Jabs how they were given. It appears there are two methods:

1. Intramuscular - which is jabbed in a muscle somewhere ( like your arm / rear end! ) the most common type and easier to do.

2. Intradermal - this is given under a layer of skin which is very effective, but does take a little more "skill" Also has the advantage of requiring less vaccine, resulting in a considerable cost advantage

Both methods require the same "course" ect....


So my question is which method did you have...........and did it work :confused1: ( not expecting any replies to that last bit other than "yes" )

I am planning to seek more professional advice on this before making my decision. But I guess it will depend on what is available in my area.

I had three injections (HDCV) in 2007. Over a couple of months... Then a booster in 2010.

I had my 3 jabs in 2007 (for South America) intramuscular.
2 months ago, I had a single booster (valid 3 years) again intramuscular.

My husband was told, however, in another clinic, that the 1007 jabs would still be giving protection and a booster was not necessary. go figure...

Was never bitten so until now, I don't know if it works. A blood analysis would reveal it, but it is very expensive (I had to do it to import my dog from Brazil to the UK so I know! $$$$$!)

I'm having the intradermal, cost Euro 100,- I trust it works, the University Hospital where I am getting them has many years experience. They give three shots, similar to TBC Mantoux test, with sufficient interval so your body will for sure make anti-bodies. With one or two shots, that would be uncertain and subject to the individual. With 3 shots, clinical testing has proved everybody makes the required anti bodies and blood testing is not required anymore. That is how they explained it to me.

I was sold on the vaccination after I read what Rabies is and how unpleasant and deadly it is to get infected (Rabies - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). And very few countries are Rabies free...

There are very few infections which scare me, Rabies is in every sense nasty.

I think we all can agree that it's small price to get the 3 jabs to have a decent chance to survive if bitten by dogs, bats, etc.

And just last year I was attached by dogs in Romania, 3 times within 30 km, no fun at all.

Casper

I think that is putting it very, very mildly. Rabies is 100% lethal. And you don´t even have to get bitten to get infected by it.

..actually I can´t right now remember another disease, that is like this.

(Won´t let fear ruin my trip, and I like animals, but in most places I do steer well clear from them, because of this possibility).

I actually think it's something like 96%, but yes a nasty piece of work. I've also seen the result of meningitis carrying tigs...

So in general get the vaccinations, it might save your life.

Casper

Ok I feel a need to reiterate on this thread: if you get bitten you MUST get treated even if you've been vaccinated. The only difference is the amount of time you have before the window expires. If you have not been vaccinated the treatment window is 24hrs. Rabies is 100% fatal, there has only been one recent recorded case of survival and she never will be right.

Even if the death rate is 96% and not 100% (and I dont know which one, perhaps you know better than me) I would still take this thing pretty damn seriously.

Since there seems to be so many medical experts present, may I ask, what other disease could be transmitted by just getting a tiny drop of saliva of an infected animal on the wrong place in your body, and is practically guaranteed to kill you in a very short time? I think Marburg/Ebola-type of viruses might get close, but luckily those outbreaks have not been common.

My initial course was paid for privately but administered free of charge at my doctor (NHS)

They could not fit me in for my boosters (second lot some years later), so I had to go to a NOMAD clinic to get these done!

all have been intra muscular.

back in 1992 I was given some inoculation that had to be injected into my stomach, that was not nice! I think it was for rabies but I am not sure!

True, it does more or less not matter... the last 4% is probably just a abnormality in the studies.

Start by reading Rabies - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, Rabies vaccine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, Rabies virus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, I stopped after the main article as I had enough after that.

But from what I gather it transfers by bite (Saliva).



Casper

Infected animals saliva is infectious. And that´s not really the same as transferring only by bite, even though getting bitten is probably the most common method, and infected animals tend to bite.

Another important thing to notice here is, that although cases may not be common, rabies can still be found almost all over the planet.

I took the vaccin when I went to eastern Turkey, Armenia and Georgia in 2010. Don't take the risk, you will encounter dogs (not necessary with rabies).

Had my first jab yesterday, in the arm, Next is in 7 days time and then 28 days after that.

Remember to get the booster 12 months (+/- week) after the first one. As it then will last for 5 years.



Casper

Cheers, Will do.

Vaccinations in the U.S. are exorbitantly expensive.

We got the rabies vaccinations in Bangkok at the exceptional Bumrungrad Travel Clinic for 600THB ($18us) each.

Travel Medicine Center | Bumrungrad Hospital Bangkok Thailand

We called beforehand to check which vaccine they were administering. It was the exact one the travel clinic in the U.S. was going to give us.

We also got some vaccinations at the Medi-Travel clinic at the V&A Waterfront in Cape Town. Again, prices were way way way way lower than U.S. prices.

About MTI

Those in need of several vaccinations or medications who would be paying out of pocket for them (high deductible) would likely save the cost of their airfare by going a little early and getting these done outside of the U.S. system.

I wouldn't worry about getting a Rabies Jab:nono:, just think about it !:innocent: after your very slow and agonising death of rabies, you will make the news on the TV in your home town & not to mention all the newspapers:thumbup1: !!!! How goods that:thumbup1:.....& I bet you may even get a mention in the Darwin awards:innocent: f*$#@ Ripper you'll be famous !!!!! (in the local pub at least):D
But you won't have bragging rights as you will be dead !!!:confused1:

Arrhhhh uumm better get that jab after all:innocent: at least I'll be alive to whinge about the cost:clap: & still be able to ride my bike:scooter:

Cheers
Paul

If you're trying to be funny, then it is a very very bad joke.



Casper

I thought It was a good joke = $310nzd here for intradermal - $610nz for muscular.

Painful on the wallet !!

If there is the slightest chance then there is no argument, get the jabs. If you remember the boosters then over the years the overall costs diminish significantly. Along with the rabies jabs, get a "Dog Dazer", they do work but you have to let them get into range, about 5 metres then the effect is spectacular but they certainly use up the batteries If anyone knows of a solar charger or indeed a Dazer that can be carried in a charger unit on the moto that would be ideal. In my experience on a moto all of the time you can outrun them but going walkies is a different matter.
Ride safe.

Although I never have, I would say, get the Rabies vaccine. I had a rabid dog go within an inch of my leg in Chiang Mai, I more of less moved my leg out of it's jaw, as it closed it.......
On another note, I once worked for the only Man in the UK with Rabies, at that time. He also contracted it in Chiang Mai, from a little mut, that bit his leg, then his hand.
He had not been previously vaccinated.
Thais couldn't be more helpful, knew exactly what to do, gave him the list of Vaccines, and treatment schedule, to give to the NHS.
When he came home, the NHS docs looked at the list, pooh poohed it, and treated him their way. Within a fortnight he was on a life support machine, at which point, the NHS decided to look at the Thai list again........
He did recover, but it was close.

That is fact is only half the story. Not only the time in different, also the treatment after the bite is TOTALLY different with or without vaccination. And that just makes all the difference. See post #11 on the complete story.

In the last few days I have traveled the northern black sea coast line in Turkey and have been chased several times by large packs of dogs. Dont travel at night because they will go bonkers! I had to do about 4miles in the dark and they were all over me.
So yes money well spent for me.

sent via tapatalk on the road.