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Seasons-How to avoid extreme heat and cold ?
Plan to spend 3 months traveling in South America, mainly Chile, Argentina, Peru and Bolivia.
But I don't take heat very well, anything above 30degC (86F) and I struggle. Don't mind it being cool (from Norway after all) but am aware that the Andes are high altitude so have to try to avoid snow as well. So not sure how easy it is to make a general route where temps are mainly between 10 and 30C (50-86F). But thought maybe take advantage of the seasons, something like: Start in South of Chile/Argentina in January/February End up in Peru/Chile in April/May OR Start in Peru/Chile in August/September End up in South of Chile/Argentina in November/December Then I'm in South when it's summer and warm-ish and north when winter. I do of course realize there will be hotter/colder days than I prefer but just trying to plan as smart as I can. What about rain seasons...if there are any? |
Speaking from purely my own net-based research, it always rains in Patagonia but does so less in the summer months of Nov-February. You won't need to worry much about high temperatures in the Andes but rains can be a problem. Personally, I think cold weather is easier to cope with than torrential rain, not least when it comes to motorcycle touring. In the Andes, and maybe someone will hopefully correct me if I'm wrong, but you either go in the summer and get soaked or go in the winter and deal with -minus night-time temperatures. My plan is to hit Northern Chile Peru/Bolivar in August, September, October and then head down the eastern side of the Andes in November, taking my time to reach Patagonia by December, and then make my way back up through the south of Chile for January :)
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When I rode through Argentina at he end of December around Mendoza it was 104 Degrees F.
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I've done the Andes twice now and it can be hot :-)
Findingthe right time is hard, but using the right gear can help. If you are prepared to use a light summer jacket and kevlar lined jeans then they are suitable for the heat. On our 1st trip I had my Hein Gerrick jacket and trousers in an Ortleib bag on my back seat so that I could switch as soon as conditions change. On our 2nd trip as we were both on one bike I kept the HG gear (jacket) on most of the time and sweated in Argentina (NW corner). Jean used decent thin waterproofs (until she burnt them on the exhaust) on the 2nd trip. We have ridden Bolivia in December and Feb, both time it was mainly dry. In the December my HG gear kept me warm and we only experienced the one heavy down pour (El ALto, in the traffic). December is just at the start of the wet season. But if you drop to Cochabamba it will be dry. In the Feb in Bolivia again we must have got lucky, 9 days without getting rained on. never seen snow. To stay cool head through Chile, use Ruta 5 and take the coast road between Iquique and Antofogasta if the desert bores you. You can either cross to Argentina north or south of Santiago. Mendoza is probably always warm :-) Ptagonia, does not *always* rain :-). Again, we may have been lucky and only needed waterproofs a few times. YMMV, but isn't that always the fun ? :-) Oh, Patagonia fills up with Chileans at the end of Jan, best end of Dec into Jan. |
Thanks for that Bruce.
Any ideas what to expect in Bolivian/Chilean Atacama, Bolivar highlands and Peruvian Andes in August, September & October? I'm hoping not too cold but no rain either... Is going up there at this time going to be crazy or just a bit chilly? |
re seasons down south
Not wanting to push your question aside Ridetheworld (though El Forko tells me those are fine months to be in those parts - May+ Bolivia, Aug-Oct Peru) . . .
But a related question: I’m currently in Puerto Natales and would like to take my time weaving north over the Andes. I’m wondering when the weather turns (i.e. when roads get dicey with encroaching winter and passes close for the season). I don’t want to cut it that fine, but good to know. I realise the snow comes and goes higher up with rains in the valleys, but its the season end I'm interested in. I imagine being up around Bariloche by end Feb/early March will be sensible, beyond which the temps are hot, though hopefully coming down from peak temps of Jan-Feb, especially up in northern Chile and NW Arg. Then Bolivia for May+. Cheers! Bob |
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The Atacama is almost guaranteed dry :-). But it is a desert and can also get cold at night. There is no time that is crazy t go IMO. Just what fits with your itinerary. As long as you have decent riding gear the extremes are manageable. If space, carry summer gear (light jacket and kevlar Jeans) and mix and match |
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For Southern regions of Chile and Argentina, November to March generally have the best weather ... but it can still rain and wind can blow like a Banshee! :helpsmilie: During this same time period ... going a bit North and into central or East coast of Argentina, you can run into extreme HEAT. Buenos Aires can be 35C or higher. Go further North and it gets even hotter. Once North of Mendoza it can be over 40C. (around Salta) Coastal Chile and the Andes are cooler, even in Summer (November to March). By March temps can begin to cool and Patagonia and Tierra del Fuego may become too cool to ride. But further North it should cool off, with luck you'll find pleasant weather. With Climate Change (Global Warming) it's now impossible to predict how your year will go. It's now really variable .... and crazy. :taz: We're seeing unprecedented record breaking HEAT, COLD, RAIN, SNOW. So we can't 100% count on anything. "Seasons" are no longer as predictable as they once were. With any luck you'll have predictable weather and have a good ride. But as others have said, having good versatile gear is important. I would never wear Cotton jeans of any kind, Kevlar is hype. They are HOT and sweaty when it's hot and cold and wet in bad weather. I'd much rather have vented/mesh dirt bike riding pants (like KLIM Baja or Mojave pants) for hot weather ... and use rain over-pants for cold/wet. Same with your jacket. Quality mesh or partial mesh jacket with quality armor. Use a light rain jacket and under layers if it's cold or wet. If hot, strip it all off and ride in the mesh dirt bike riding gear. It's wonderful in the heat! If it's over 86F ... that is the best set up, IMHO. I've ridden in S. America and been to Ushuaia five times over 3 years. But it's been years since I was there. But I do ride in our California Sierra Nevada mountains year round. I am quite familiar with going from 4000 meter snow covered mountain passes down to below Sea Level to Death Valley with temps over 45C. I've done this for over 20 years. The above gear is seems to provide the most versatility. I spent 6 months in Peru' and Bolivia in my travels and found weather hard to predict in the high Andes. Seems like rain can happen anytime. When the Sun comes out it is INTENSE and will FRY you without you knowing. Temps may not get HOT ... but Take Care with Sun in high Andes. If the Andes are too cold you could go lower in Altitude and head down into the Amazonas regions ... like Equitos, Bolivia or Maldonado, Peru'. Muy tropical! A few links for some decent travel gear: Klim Baja Pants - RevZilla https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-X...age_detail.jpg Summer Jackets - RevZilla Men's Mesh Motorcycle Jackets - RevZilla |
Great responses - flying out on Monday can't wait!!!
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Oh, and they do their job protecting me when I throw my bike down then road :-) (Argentina and France ... :-() |
hey Bruce,
No worries ... glad you've had good experience with your jeans. Using rain pants over is smart ... I do the same over my dirt riding pants or leathers. What brand Kevlar Jeans are you using? If you look into so called "Kevlar Re-inforced" jeans you'll find that first off, they use a small amount of Kevlar strands, and only in the "Impact" areas. (hips, butt, knees) This helps protect the fabric from burning through when sliding down pavement at 50 mph. But most serious injury happens on IMPACT. But it would be nice to have that Kevlar protection if sliding down a gravel road. But I'd imagine the jeans would still get torn up? For me good quality armor and pads are more important than Kevlar fabric. Ballistic Cordura fabric is pretty rugged ... but I rely more on armor I use underneath than the fabric itself. If armor is placed accurately it can prevent broken bones. The other thing about Kevlar Jeans is that a very small percentage of actual Kevlar is typically used in the impact areas ... like 5% or 10%? So it's a bit of Kevlar thread woven into the Cotton fabric. Several moto magazines have looked closely at several brands of the Kevlar reinforced jeans. Not all good reviews. :thumbdown: "Draggin Jeans" are one of the most popular brands. But several other companies now make these jeans ... even Cycle Gear. :rofl: In high heat and humidity with temps over 35C I find jeans are HOT and sweaty. They also get wet both from your own sweat and from a tropical shower. They do not dry out quickly. Crotch Rot and Monkey Butt seem to be a common complaint of jean wearers I've ridden with. Heavy jean denim fabric is relatively heavy compared to dirt riding pants. Riding off road sometimes can be hard work, so we sweat a lot. Vented, mesh type gear tends to allow the sweat to evaporate fairly quickly. Jeans stay wet for hours. Monkey Butt? But can't argue with your experience ... and it sounds positive! :thumbup1: When I lived in El Salvador and Guatemala (2 years) I gave up all my jeans, for casual wear (not riding), wore what locals wear: Wash & Wear wrinkle free syn blend pants. Thin, light, no wrinkles, easy wash (unlike Jeans) and dry super quick ... and less sweat! bier |
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I know what you mean about armour, but the new D30 is a great improvement. Some protection is better than none IMO. And as I have not broken anything yet...... :-). As I say, I am a big fan of jeans and have not worn leathers for about 5 years now. As with bikes, it is each to his own choice :-) |
Bolivia Jan/Feb
In 2013 I rode from Potosi to La Paz three times, once in late January, then twice in February (mid and late.) Twice I encountered snow in the mountains north of Potosi and every time there were periods of hail. I go drenched in Potosi and the altitude made the ride from there to Sucre challenging. The distances between towns can be long and if the weather turns you might not find lodging right next to the highway (in fact chances are you won't), so be prepared to explore small towns that are within sight of the highway.
The PanAm really sucks for maybe 20 miles south of La Paz due to deep grooves/ruts caused by trucks. Adventure is something that sounds charming when you are sitting on the couch by the fire. Living it can be hard, but its worth it. |
Great comments Peter! No question your experience reflects just how nasty weather can get on the high Alti-Plano. Snow and super cold happen. :freezing:
I did not ride bikes in Bolivia, but remember the Bus ride from La Paz down to Coroico (Death Road). You start out in La Paz around 14,000 ft, then go UP and over a high pass before dropping down onto the Death Road. That pass had a blizzard going on ... I was amazed the bus made it. Would have been dicey on a bike. :stormy: That super cold/rain/snow is another reason I gave up on cotton jeans over 20 years ago. If Cotton gets wet ... and you ride into freezing conditions ... you freeze! Ice next to skin is not good. With a Wool blend or synthetic you can still stay a bit warm even when wet and both dry out with air flow. Staying dry is key to staying warm. I have most trouble with my hands and feet (because of exposure to frost bite). If your boots get wet inside and then you go UP to high altitude and freezing temps ... your feet will freeze, and that is really uncomfortable! (painful for me) I treat my riding boots with Sno-Seal (US product) and use water proof over-booties. All this helps. With frozen hands and feet it's tough to maintain safe control! bier |
Dry and warm
Summer in southern South America can be quite pleasant, not too hot. I doubt you'll have issues with being over heated. You are more likely to be cold if you go deep into the cone. I have heard reports of a dusting of snow during high summer in Ushuaia. Search for "annual weather in...", then figure it will be considerably colder in the mountains.
Here is a sample website: Santiago, Chile Travel Weather Averages (Weatherbase) Its not all about riding, you'll want warm stuff to wear in the mountain during the evening. Cold and me, we have a love/hate relationship. Mostly hate from my side. I failed to take enough warm layers for the evenings. When it comes to fabric, wool has some very practical properties. I was told that when wool gets wet, the insulating benefits increase. A friend of mine wore a light wool pull over shirt throughout his ride in South America. I am a fan of wool socks, for several reasons.
My riding gear (Olympia Moto Sports) has waterproof and insulated liners. I hate the cold, so I wear a heated vest at high altitude or if the temperature drops and its raining. My spirits improve dramatically when the heated vest kicks in. Did I mention how much I hate the cold? I don't think you will run into a lot of rain given the time of year, but it happens and you have to be prepared. When it comes to keeping your fingers warm and dry, I have searched for summer weight gloves that are water proof. I can't find a pair that are affordable and the liners don't come out when pull my damp hands out...so, I wear big rubber gardening gloves (Home Depot, $5.00 USD) over Mechanix gloves ($19.00 USD) . Yes, I go a little light on hand protection. The rubber gardening glove keep my Mechanix glove dry, and my fingers stay warm. Nothing really works to keep your hands 100% dry in a full day of riding in the rain. One of my favorite memories from Bolivia was crossing the mountains north of Potosi. About an inch of snow had fallen shortly before I reached the highest point in the mountains. A few cars had gone ahead of me, leaving a tires width of track to ride in. Twisting back and forth along the mountainside I spotted a sheep herder sitting on the slope. He was wrapped in some kind of blanket and had a blunt cone shaped hat. This guy was hunkered down watching his flock as the snow fell around him. Tough as nails. |
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And agree with all of you that having the right clothes is important. Have a part leather/textile gortex pro Shell Stadler suit which should work well for the cooler/wetter days (with rain suit on top for continous heavy rain). Got large vent ZIPs under arms and in chest so OK up to 30degC. Not sure if will use mesh jacket or pressure suit for the warm days, got both. May buy pressure suit With same armour as Stadler jacket to save space, jackets with amour is terribly bulky. And already got the Baja pants, brilliant stuff! When it comes to under wear, I'm a big fan of merino wool even when warm, there are some very thin ones avaiable. Will be back for more advices as soon as we have decided when to og, thanks so far bier |
Reread the posts again (thanks again) as finally got some time (stuck in Nigeria for 4 weeks) and given some more thought to the clothing side as, as you all say, even though you can try to plan for best weather you can/will still face anything from snow to very hot.
The cold weather part is the easiest for me, I ride all winter in temps down below -10C/14F and the 2 main things are wool and wind stoppers, both in several layers, and textile jacket with thermal liner. Anything below this and you need heated gear unless slow speed and high activity like enduro. So same gear will work well up to 25C/77F just removing layers/liner and opening vents (if any) and zips. But above this, like you say, I need more vented stuff. As I see it, I've got 3 options: 1. Jacket with plenty ventilation like HELD Carese, that is still good for cold with all vents closed and liners in. Good: Don't need a second jacket Bad: Hassel with layers, still not as cool as a mesh jacket or pressure suit 2. Mesh jacket Good: Cool Bad: More street oriented cut (standing a problem?), less protective than a normal jacket 3. Pressure suit Good: Cool, very protective off tarmac Bad: No abrasion resistance on tarmac Within each of these categories there are of course many alternatives and variations, enough to drive you crazy really... A mesh jacket that is very nice is the Dainese Air Frazer Jacket with large leather sections in exposed areas and pocket for chest protector. If buy a Dainese textile jacket for colder weather, I can use the same armour in both jackets saving weight and space (jackets pack a LOT smaller without armour). http://images1.revzilla.com/product_...ket_detail.jpg SPIDI's got an interesting jacket, MULTITECH ARMOR TEX JACKET that's something in between a mesh jacket and pressure suit. Again, buying a SPIDI textile jacket, I could use same armour for both. But not sure convinced I am about the abrasion resistance on tarmac. Should add here that I used to ride tarmac only and fast. Too fast really as had a few crashes but leather have saved me every time so my confidence in leather on tarmac is high while I've seen others with textile that didn't look to good after a slide. So it's a thing I have and, though plan is to do as much off tarmac as possible, I know I'll be riding on tramac quite a bit too. Oh well, just thinking out loud here but any comments appricaited. As mentioned above got both mesh jacket and several pressure suits already so maybe already got what I need... EDIT: Then there's the Klim Adventure Rally Air Jacket, not leather but super fabric that's supposed to be even more abrasion resistant than leather. Not very subtle though... |
I love the design of the Dainese jacket shown above ... but for traveling I would miss my Pockets! My jacket has lots of pockets ... 7 in all if you count 2 inner security pockets a lower back pouch. All my pockets have waterproof zippers that actually work.
Also, the Dainese could benefit from a rain jacket worn over to cut wind/cold/rain. Not much better than leather for real protection! :thumbup1: |
Yes, agree, the Dainese is not the ideal touring jacket and more for on road.
Looked some more on the Klim Adventure Rally Air. It's very expensive but do tick a lot of boxes: - Flows a lot of air - Very protecive on and off road with superfabric and giant d3o protectors - Many pockets (though not waterproof without bags) - Hydration pocket http://images2.revzilla.com/product_...rey_detail.jpghttp://images2.revzilla.com/product_...rey_detail.jpg Not sure about the looks though, actually the jacket is OK-ish so maybe combine it with another pair of pants (like Baja). Then use more shell type jacket/pants when cold. So similar setup as TT Companero. (Another option...). |
The KLIM Adventure Air is very nice ... but for $1300 usd, I'll pass, thanks.
Honestly, who do KLIM think they are fooling? I've seen that jacket ... it's good but not 3 times the price good. Seriously, a rip off. And Rukka? At $1800 I'd say they're smoking Crack. Good Crack! :rofl: I'm very happy with my First Gear Rainier jacket. I've owned two. Made in China, same as the KLIM! :innocent: First generation (2008) Rainier not so good, but my 2nd gen one shown below is quite good ... $250. (on sale) I don't use their D30 armor, I use Aerostich, much better. The latest generation is even better ... but ignore the hype about the armor. List price is $499 but they go on sale, usually sell for $250 or so at season's end. Super good value IMO. Fantastic venting, and the fabric flows lots of air. Quite water proof with waterproof zip pockets that work. Good basic functionality. Not a great Cold weather jacket ... but closing vents and layering up helps a lot. Best hot weather enduro jacket I've found. (I've tested at least 10 of them back when I worked for the magazine) read this Web Bike World review on the First Gear Rainier Jacket: Firstgear Rainier Jacket Review - webBikeWorld https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-8...ear-Ranier.jpg |
Yes, the adventure rally air is over the top both regarding price and design and probably better having a jacket with vents
First Gear jacket is nice but looks like not in range any more? Looked some more on Klim stuff, got some of their gear (pants traverse, dakar an chinook) and very happy. The Badlands jacket and pants is expensive but get extremely good reviews. Like the design, many pockets without looking to overloaded and a bit more enduro than touring look. http://images0.revzilla.com/product_...000_detail.JPGhttp://images2.revzilla.com/product_...844_detail.jpg Even some pressure suit options using same d3o protectors like italian SIXS for those very hot days and low speed. Should take zero space without armour. http://www.sixs.biz/uploads/foto_pro...o-ts9-back.png |
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https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-y...0/DSCF4679.JPG and got colder the next day https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-R...0/DSCF4691.JPG |
Well, at least you got white Christmas :freezing:
THIS GUY is doing tours in the Andes and his review of the Badlands are great. His preferred setup is with pressure suit under though, but point is works for all temperatures and weather. Maybe Santa will give me a suit for Xmas bier |
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Being in extreme South, Ushuaia can have weather extremes any time of year. In one day it can go from muy Sunny to bastante misery. Over 3 yrs/ 6 trips in-out of Ushuaia (mostly Summer months) saw decent weather. (lucky?) One November saw sunny & warm nearly every day. bier Legendary wind of the area seems to partly miss Ushuaia. Much stronger bit further North, North/West. I flew alot around there (passenger) ... that wind is a real challenge to pilots. :stormy: One Drake crossing (by boat) in late March saw a sea state of 9 with 60 ft. waves for 4 days. :stormy: Never so glad to see (and smell) Ushuaia. :palm: December? want warmer weather? go to Buenos Aires. Or, for more moderate temps, try Valparaiso. :Beach: |
Looks like we might start in january (2016 unfortunately, have to save money and time off :( )
Then we'll probably start south an work our way up to Bolivia and south Peru maybe going by Buenos Aires on the way up (yes, realize not a small detour). If we have 3 months and ride 2 days and rest 1, how far south can I realistically start? It's maybe 6.000km/4.000mi taking shortest route from all the way south in Chile, doing 200km/day it takes 30 days or 45 days including rest days. So we got twice that but is it still unrealstic (got a feeling it is)? We will try to ride gravel when we can. |
The new Dainese D-Explorer jackets and pants may be what I want. Giant mesh vents on chest and entire back is mesh plus good vents all along inside of arms. All can be closed by zips/panels.
Bit same concept as Held Carese but addresses a few of the things I don't like with Carese: -Better abrasion resistance (believe Carese only 500 denier while Dainese use D-stone that is tougher than leather(?) in exposed areas) -Possible to include chest protectors (not possible on Carese) -Think even better ventilation So MAYBE a real alternative to mesh jacket or pressure suit when hot but better abrasion resistance. Still, shell supposed to be water resistant in case of a shower. And always liked Dainese, had several suits which have (literally) saved my ass a couple of times. Good quality and fit and those italians know a thing or two about design. Dainese D-Explorer Gore-Tex: For Unpathed Waters http://mediacdn.shopatron.com/media/...jpg?1408175674 http://mediacdn.shopatron.com/media/...jpg?1408175674 |
That looks like an incredible jacket! A bit too much $$$$ for my budget but really great features. At $900 usd, it should be good! But probably worth it if on the road for a year or more ... as we riders LIVE in our riding jackets ... so they must be GOOD!
bier |
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