Police Troubles in Argentina
 

Hi Folks:

I’m from Argentina, and with my wife we know some of you. And I know that sometimes you had troubles with the Police here.
Some of you don’t know which kind of problems.
Well, some of the police, most in the northeast, are not too much honest (to be polite with them) and they will try to get money from you.
First, The police in Argentina are not allowed to receive money from the drivers. If you don’t have anything in order they will make a bill and you have to pay at the Municipality Court.
The police have a lot imagination to ask you strange things. They can ask you a white sheet (to cover you if you dead), A fire extinguisher (only is an obey for the cars), and things like that.
The only problem is the 3rd party insurance, here is an obey, but….. you can show any paper in English, its really difficult find a police who speak English.
At some Europeans Embassies you can find a form to fill whit the names of the policeman or any functionary to present there to make any reclaim. The most of the times when they see the form and you explain what’s that they say GO!!!
But any way some times the police could be hard, try to measure the problems if you insist.
The best is start with I DON’T SPEAK SPANISH. I DON’T UNDERSTAND. KEEP SMILING. AND REMEMBER YOU HAVE MORE TIME THAN THEY.
Hope be useful
Javier & Sandra…….


[This message has been edited by javkap (edited 14 November 2004).]

Good advice, and thanks for the information Javier and Sandra!

Of course one thing we'd like is to find out how to get 3rd party insurance, it seems to be impossible.

Grant

Good advice indeed. As you know Javier, I am in the process of trying to purchase a bike here in Buenos Aires. I too, would love to know where the hell I can buy insurance!

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There's no justice, just us.

Hi all
I work on my shop like a insurance broker but always to customers and bikes natives, tomorrow I will inquire about the requires to foreign people and bikes, I will post the answer as quickly than I have it.
Mick: sorry about the late answer for you but I’m trying to do some summary like FAQ about to “Buy & Sell Bikes in Argentina” whit all the information what I have and send it to the B Board. Anyway phone me or come to visit me, I will try to help you, use the search function to find my address and phones.
Javier……………..

Hi all
As Javier knows, I recently crashed in the Laguna Brava and the police in that area ( west) were brilliant. They recovered my bike , took me to hospital and refused any money except to pay for diesel (they took me to the garage and i paid directly the gargae man)

So, don´t be too paranoid

Dave

Hi again:
Yes, Dave is right. Not all the Policeman are corrupt, they use to be helpful. But the police in the traffic control (specially in Formosa, Chaco, Entre Rios, Corrientes, Misiones.) use to try to get extra money. Not only to the foreign people. It’s thru don’t be paranoid. Often, most in the south, the police stop you to see the bikes and talk with you. But we want you know that the police must not take money from you.
Javier & Sandra......

Hi all,

I have third party insurance for my bike from ATM (Associacion Mutual para Condutores - Asistencia Total de Motovehiculos)

Address: Carabelas 281, 6th floor "B", Capital Federal, Buenos Aires
Tel: 4327 0403
Email: atmotos@oaseatm.com.ar

Its one block from the obelisk.

Hope it helps
Hernan

Hello,

I just had these very problems in the northeast of Argentina. I agree that most police in Argentine are very helpful. However, I ran into some real bastards at the checkpoint on the way to Iguazu.

I stopped at the checkpoint and they led me into their police building. Inside they showed me a paper that said I must have a fire extinguisher and reflectors on my bike. I told them I didn´t have the fire extinguisher and they said I had to pay a fine of $300. When I said I didn´t have that much money, they asked me how much I had. Obviously they were going to take whatever they could get.

We went around and around for quite a while, with them even threatening to search me for the money. Finally they insisted that I go south to the nearest town and withdraw the money from a bank to pay their fine. Ya right.

I tried to find another road around this checkpoint but there just aren´t any in this part of the country. That´s why the checkpoint is there.

Later the next day I went back to their checkpoint and didn´t stop. In retrospect it was a very stupid thing to do since it put me in the wrong, instead of them being wrong. And because of this mistake I was forced to leave Argentina and miss the HU meeting in Viedma. Bummer. Argentina is such a beautiful country and most of the people are very friendly. I was sorry to leave.

So my advice is to avoid this part of Argentina, or this road at least (Ruta 14?).

Story

Hi

My advices for controlls worldwide; stop in the middle of the road, in the sun or rain(!) until they say something else, never stop the engine until they wish it and don´t start to remove the helmet. Smile but don´t speak. 50% of all police officers in the world let you pass now. If they want to see the papers, give them copys ,never the original! Stay sitting on your bike, drinking something or imagine to search something in your tankbag - show no interest what they make with the copys, but allways stay polite and smile, but don´t speak. As Story said - if they can´t comunicate with you, it´s very hard to make you a problem and put you in the wrong. If you stay sitting on your bike, smiling like a n idiot they will get rid of you very fast. It allways worked, we never paid a bribe in two years travelling trough russia and S.A.

Marco
PS: special greetings and thanks to Javier!! Remember the two swiss with the dakars...?

Hello,
I was in Argentina in 2003 (met with Javier and Sandra in Azul).Police was very polite except one time at a check point that it seems to be the same like the one Story had problems. Its after San Jaime on the way to Paso de los Libres on route 14. They had me there for 3 hours demanding 100 pesos for insurance, but I think they were just looking for an excuse.After I told them I did not have money (with my very limited spanish) they start bargaining, first 75 then 50. Finally it was getting dark and I did not want to stay there so I paid 27 saying that that was what I had on me. They gave me a receipt and I left. This happen end of September 2003 and I am sorry that I did not posted this earlier.It might have save somebody from troubles. The funny thing is that when I arrived in Argentina in December 2002 I made an insurance, but that was the only time I was asked for an insurance in SA and...I could not find it http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/ubb/smile.gif
Ofcourse this incident did not change my opinion about Argentina and the people who are friendly and nice, and I look forward to go there again.
Antonis

If are traveling without s rigid schedule it seems that you can wait out the police. I'd like to hear of people who have refused to pay anything and what eventually happened.

I don't thinkg driving through border checkpoints is a good idea, especially in today's political environment.

Also, if they see you have camera/computer equipment I don't think claims of poverty are going to be successful. You're already riding around on a machine that they could never afford.


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Brooklyn Dakar
http://motorcycleramblings.blogspot.com/

[This message has been edited by JSherm (edited 10 December 2004).]

[This message has been edited by JSherm (edited 10 December 2004).]

This company in The Netherlands seems to be able to provida an insurance for South America
http://www.alessie.com/

[This message has been edited by herbertroelandt (edited 27 December 2004).]

Hi all

For info,I just got ripped off on an Ruta Nacional 14 checkpoint (at km 261 just outside Salto/ Concordia).

When they couldn´t find anything wrong with the papers or the bike, one of them charged me with speeding and fined me 300 pesos. There was no way I was speeding as I´d only just got on the bike and gone about 3km that morning. When I finally got round to translating the ticket it said "overtaking on a yellow line" so they couldn´t even get their story straight.... and it was for 120 pesos..... no prizes for guessing where the other 180 went!!

Apparently the traffic cops in this area are reknowned for ripping off foreigners so it might be worth avoiding the area if possible.

It was a real shame because otherwise everyone in Argentina (including the cops and border guards) has been really helpful and friendly.

Gary

The mongrels Gary encountered tried it on with me today. The first two police checks after entering Entre Rios pulled me over and tried the phoney charges routine.

The first was for speeding saying someone had snapped me 2kms up the road. I offered the policeman a lift back up the road and to pay double if there was someone there. He let me go.

The second had just got 100 pesos out of a German guy for not having the fire extinguisher. They took me into the little station and showed me a black folder with photocopied lists of fines and other scrap book cuttings, one of which listed fire extinguisher weights for vehicles. For me it was laughingly unconvincing. It looked like a photocopy of a fire extinguisher catalogue!

I told the policeman that unless he showed me a copy of the Argentinian laws with my offence listed I would not pay. I also mentioned that many motorcyclists were being fined in this region for this offence and yet the embassy in the UK had told me no law currently existed.

Finally I told him I did not want to break the law - that I was a policeman back in the UK, but it was totally unacceptable to pay a fine under these circumsatances. Then he let me go.

No doubt I will be nailed somewhere else up the road but if you get stopped in this place do not believe the black folder!

Good luck!

Matt

Seems like entre rios is a bad place for driving if you're a foreigner. As I wrote in another post, a policemen obviously tried to squeeze money out of me. I was lucky, he asked for my insurance, and doing like understanding nothing, it took him 15 minutes to explain me dummy-sure what he wanted. Was funny :-) I pointed to some entry in my bike papers which was for the european insurance, and a few minutes later he gave up and let me go.

That was on ruta 12, on km 117 or somewhere around there. Before the bridge over 'parana de guazu'

My advice from what I heard and saw: Try to avoid the whole entre rios if you're not patient enough for dealing with corrupt policemen......

Marco
http://www.schnueriger.net

About the Fire Extinguisher the Argentine law say:
Ley Nacional de Transito N° 24.449

Art. 40 Requisitos para circular
Ins: “F”
“Que posea matafuegos y balizas portátiles normalizados, excepto las motocicletas”
That has fire extinguisher and triangles markers, except motorcycles.

Other points helpfully for you:

"Art. 3° .- Garantía de Libertad de transito. Queda prohibida la retención o demora del conductor, de su vehículo, de la documentación de ambos y/o licencia habilitante por cualquier motivo, salvo los casos expresamente contemplados por esta ley u ordenados por Juez competente."
Free Transit guaranty. It’s forbidden the retention or dilates of the driver, his documents, and/or his license for any reason, except the situation expecificatly treaty in this law or ordered by a Judge in charge.

"Art 4°.- Convenios internacionales. Las convenciones internacionales sobre transito vigentes en la republica son aplicables a los vehículos matriculados en el extranjero en circulación por el territorio nacional, y a las demás circunstancias que contemplen, sin perjuicio de la aplicación de la presente en los temas no considerados por tales convenciones."
International Agrees. The International’s Agreements about transit valid in the Republic are applicable to the vehicles registered in a foreigner country in transit trough the national territory and others circumstances treaty, with out detriment the application of this law on the situations no considered by these Agreements

Sorry About the translation is difficult the laws terms. But I hope it will be helpfully

Sandra & Javier


[This message has been edited by javkap (edited 03 April 2005).]

I had the opposite experience in Argentina. I was riding very fast, around 140 km/h when the police stopped me. I tell him that this was my firts visit to Argentina, that I didn't note the speed, that was my fault, but I ask the policeman to be kind with me, that mi wife and I was in our mariage anniversary, allway smiling and very polite. And the policeman returned me the documents and no fine. Really a nice person.

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Ya verás como quieren en Chile al amigo cuando es forastero (traditional song)

Jose Pedro Espinosa
Curico, Chile

Never had any problems with any police in South America other than this region in Argentina. From the frequency of problems this is no coincidence.

I would suggest that anyone else coming up the Ruta 14 in Entre Rios has a copy of Javier's laws to produce when necessary. The black folder that convinced the German biker to pay $100 moments before I arrived quoted a certain law relating to fire extinguishers. Would be good to see that one put in it's proper place.

Good luck to everyone else!

Matt

Matt/ Marco

Sounds like I need to learn a few lessons from you guys! I agree with Matt that generally the police were fine in South America - although the Peruvian traffic police around Juliaca also managed to relieve me of a few quid for something or other .... you live and learn

Cheers

Gary

I was also stopped by the police on Ruta 14. They asked me for the fire extingusher and showed me also the black folder with the copy of the fire extingusher catalouge. I asked the policeman for his name and his passport and showed a copy of Javiers translation. It worked. We got away there without paying anything.
Thanks Javier!

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Patrick
You are welcome!!!!!! http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/ubb/smile.gif
Send me the 10% of polices demanding and I will be very happy http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif
Sandra (she was the translator) says hi!!!!
We fill very greet to be useful http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
See you again here?
Take care and give a copy to others coming down.
Javier……………


[This message has been edited by javkap (edited 13 April 2005).]

I made a PDF version of Sandras and Javiers translation of the laws for easy printing. It can be downloaded here:
http://www.schweizer-ing.com/weltrei...es/arg_law.pdf
Thanks Sandra and Javier

Greetings Patrick
--
www.schweizer-ing.com

Here's something that seems to work well...
http://www.smellybiker.com/arg_cops.doc

I tried it on the police when they tried to fine me on Ruta 14. I said I'd only pay if they filled out the form I was given by an official at the airport in BsAs.

The cop looked at the form, then showed it to his boss who didnt look very happy & quickly sent me on my way.

The form is completely bogus & was inspired by a German traveller I met in 2003. I just made it a scarier & a friend translated it into Spanish.

Have fun !

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Last seen in S.America, missing presumed fed.
http://worldtour.overpro.co.uk
http://www.motodogging.com

[This message has been edited by Happy Hacker (edited 27 February 2006).]

[This message has been edited by Happy Hacker (edited 27 February 2006).]

Bob,great idea!But don´t tell it to loud,remember the enemy is allways watching!
I will try to get some official logo to print on the paper.
Again superb idea to ruin the "extra" income of those corrupt vultures.
Have a safe trip
KH

hi,
i agree with sima, while i was travelling through south america, and centeral, i was pulled over on several occasions. I just smiled, kept my helmet on, denied anything and sat there until they got fed up with me and told me to go on. One policeman in particular in peru was funny and honest, i said this is corruption and he said yes it is! so i gave him a drink of water and he was happy, and i got a photo with him. But i never gave any police or border people ANY Money or goods, there really needs to be more people not paying the bribes. I did spend 4hrs at the El salvador - Hondorus border arguing as they wanted to charge me $70usd. I ended up getting them down eventually, but i did see many people going through just paying because they wanted to get out of there. Ooops off the track a little but again smile and be happy.
Troy

Fortunatly the enemy doesnt normally understand English ;-)

Another one to add to the list: at the usual suspicious border crossing (entering Entre Rios from Zarare, just over the bridge on Routa 14) i was pulled over. Initially the cop wanted to fine me for not having reflectors on the Touretech cases (which I have). I go into the room, and there the story changes to a really good one:the luggage (presumably the same Touratech cases and maybe my guitar) exceeding the space allowed to be carried by a motorcycle. 300 pesos fine! I had Javiers translated notes laid out in plain view on the table, but this didn´t seem to bother the cop.
I pulled out Bobs sheets and asked him to help me fill it out and if there is a post office nearby. He read it out loud, slowly, and then goes back to Javiers sheets. ¨ Ahh, this one. Number 2. Free Passage. This means you can go free¨.
Finally, in desperation, he goes for the kill: ¨¨But Insurance!! Where is your insurance!!?¨¨
Of course I have none, but I confidently hand him my carnet. ¨Look, here is where Argtenina approved the insurance (pointing out the customs stamp) and here on the back page is the club that authorizes it (on the back are all the countries that the carnet is valid for, and conviently, the automobile club of Argentina, ACA, has its name beside the country. He let me go.

My only problem in all my time in Argentina.
Rene

It seems that the police on Routa 14 is trying very hard to become rich. All the information given here are great, and I am planning to use them next time, but I am just wondering if we can do something about it. Maybe write a letter to a newspaper or to a ministry. Any ideas? suggestions? Does anybody know how we can get these policemen on routa 14 and maybe save some fellow riders and other tourist?

Antonis

I was not able to download the bogus form that can be given to police who are trying to bribe.
HELP!!!

That document is now available - slightly edited for English - in the Trip Planning / Country Info / Argentina page. (See menu on the right of the Trip Planing main page)

It's a pdf document - you may have to right click and save as.

In case of trouble with that, I have also created an html document that should be no problem to print.

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Grant Johnson

Seek, and ye shall find.
------------------------

One world, Two wheels.
www.HorizonsUnlimited.com

Hi
Also on my workshop/hostel are some copies printed by BCK_973 (Karl) ready to pick up for any who need it.
Javier…
www.dakarmotos.com

Danger - Three hungry policemen in Entre Rios on Ruta 14
Sure enough there they were waiting to pick me out of a long line of traffic, I was hiding behind a converted bus/camper - saw them from three quarters mile away.
Used Sandra and Javiers advice, spoke only English - lots of no comprendo's, wanted me to dismount and join them in the police car - yeah sure. Tried to tell me I was speeding, to which they received many no's, finally they gave up and suggested it may have been an (otro moto)

Alec - MZ Baghira



[This message has been edited by Livotlout (edited 27 February 2006).]

I was recently advised by two German riders to avoid the highway 127 crossing between Entre Rios and Corrientes. They were detained for quite a while by corrupt policemen.

About two weeks ago we tried to cross into Argentina from Chile @ Futalafu. Argentina police were professional, but told us that Argentina insurance is required to cross in. We had Chile plates on bikes so might be more f an issue with Chile vehicle(Chile/Arg need to be better friends). We tried to get ins at Futalafu(both border offices said it was available) but no luck so we just moved on. Later saw signs at Chile border towns advertising mandatory Arg ins for sale. Also spoke with Chile national that said is was a new law(or old one being inforced) that does in fact require insurance in Arg. It would likely be more difficult to get the ins deeper into the country so I advise getting at the border and give police less reason to detain you. I have found Chile/Arg police quite professional(except at the road to Foz Iquazu)

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Corrupt argentine Police posts
 

OK almost 6 years later, ill continue this thread.
Here are 2 police posts that are extremely corrupt. Avoid them.

Police Post at RP26 exiting Victoria to Nogoya, Entre Rios, Argentina=>Coordenates -32.6207, -60.1326
Police Post at RN127, between San Jaime and Liberdad, Corrientes, Argentina=>Coordenates -30.2178, -58.1804

Hope this helps.

I'd like to know if theres a way to take a ferryboat from Montevideo to Buenos Aires. Id rather sail for 3 hours that pay these bastard and have to re-toute 400km to avoid them.

Cheers
Carl</SPAN>

Buquebus ferries from Montevideo to B.A., but it's expensive. Use Google and reserve a cheap spot--prices seem to vary a lot according to boat, time, day, phases of the moon and mother's maiden name (<<<joke).

Mark

FWIW I had no problems with the police in Entre Rios, all the way to Iguazu.

At one checkpoint they were wanting money, and I laughed so hard I think they thought I was not quite right is the head (which is true) and they sent me on my way. Also, having a little gopro camera on my helmet seems to expedite my progress through police checkpoints. The very first question: "Is that a video camera?" Si. "Is it filming right now?" Si. That little camera seems to encourage the police to be on their best behavior, FWIW.

does anyone know where I can now download that document to register corruption? The link doesn't work anymore... I do have the printout of the law about fire extinguisers... love this kind of stuff!

Not 100% sure of this but I heard this from a fellow that lives in BA and he said that the highway through Entre Rios is totally being reworked and the the police checkpoint was no longer there.
There have not been any post here related to this checkpoint so it may be true.

Anyone be through there resently to confirm this?

Be careful around Posadas they got me two times in one day there

I went through Central and South America this winter. I put a GoPro Helmet cam on. I never had a problem with corrupt cops. A couple of times I got pulled over. The cop would be looking at the little box on my head. Suddenly his expression would change as if he was saying "Oh Shit. It's a camera." Then they might ask to see my license and then say "enjoy your stay in ...." I take lousy videos, but I just loved having that camera on my helmet. Dave