Learning Spanish - Progress
 

Hi there HU,

For those of you traveling Latin America, I thought you might like some down-to-earth feedback, tips, thoughts, or whatever on what it's like learning the Spanish language and exactly what it takes. I’ll be posting on this thread once every other week or so to give updates on my Spanish progress.

Quick background: I’m new to a second language. I’ve tried to learn Spanish before but got bored or it just didn’t stick. I tried Rosetta Stone, Michel Thomas, and now I’m on to Pimsleur (which is fantastic so far!). I’m learning Spanish because I’m heading to SA in 2013. I hope that these 'real-life' progress reports will give a better understanding as to what it takes to learn a new language.


Rosetta Stone:

Started (just for the heck of it) a year ago. At first it was awesome, a whole new approach to learning a second language! After a while it felt like I was really learning something but in reality I wasn’t getting anywhere. I wasn’t able to have the same interaction as you would speaking with a Spanish-speaking person. (I gave up after the year). That aside, I DID however learn a few things like what apples, dogs, cats, and other random objects were. (manzanas, perros, and los gatos).

Michel Thomas:

This guy is a real character! I listened to these recordings for a while but as before, I lost interest. He was great in emphasizing how to emphasize words and I truly did learn one of two things but I got bored -I gave up – although sometimes his recordings pop up when my iPod is on shuffle… <next>.

Pimsleur:

Now let me be clear here first: I DO NOT WORK FOR THESE GUYS, nor do I get any endorsement bonus, but I think you know where I’m going with this... On their website I listened to the first lesson or free and after that I was HOOKED. It starts off with a conversation between a man and a woman (in Spanish). I think to myself: “What the F*&% was that?!”. The narrator proceeds to teach me how to have a conversation without me even knowing it, and then he engages me in a conversation-like format. At the end they play the first Spanish conversation I heard and what-a-ya-know… I understand it - Fully.


So this is my first bi-weekly write-up and I hope you enjoyed it. I was pretty lost and didn't really know which lessons to take, if I should teach myself, or if I should pay for lessons. To help me help you, please post your questions or comments to help out the community.

I've tried the Pimsleur and the Michel Thomas courses, I actually prefer the MT course though I can't decide if the male student is being deliberately thick, he usually makes me want to punch the speakers..

Another idea is to have a look at sites like Gumtree, there are always native Spanish speakers looking for 'intercambios' in most cities, its good to hook up with some of them and try speaking face to face. And it's free!

haha yeah, but at least the girl has a great voice.

How did you do with the MT course? Can you speak Spanish now? I'm going to check out Gumtree, thanks.

I'm frantically learning Spanish too

I have been using Michel Thomas and thought it was quite good. Always surprised at how quickly you can start building sentences. I like the thick male student, he makes me feel like my spanish is not actually that bad.

Thanks for the tip on Pimsleur, I'll check it out.

If you like it, write me in Spanish. Word to word, I can help you and you can help me with English. Cheers..

There is also Coffee Break Spanish, free audio podcasts. They are quite good for the basics; greetings, number, etc.
Coffee Break Spanish | Radio Lingua Network

Progress Report: 2
 

Well it's been 2.5 weeks since my first lesson and I can say that I'm confident so far. I'm by no means able to take on a Latin American in regular chit-chat, however I'm confident that if I ask the person to speak very slowly (still not sure what the word is for 'slow') than I could have a small chance of knowing what they said. In fact I would probably say something like this:

'yo entiendo castellano pero yo entiendo muy poco. Hablo muy lento por favor.'

'I understand Spanish but I understand very little. Please speak very slowly.' (I looked up 'slowly', but the rest was all Pimsleur)


Sometimes I get confused and lag behind when I forget a word. I use a few techniques to remember the word, here's an example:

The word 'Spanish' in Latin America is 'castellano' (pronounced - CAST-A-YAN-O). For the life of me I could not remember it and so I attached an image along with it in my head. From now on the image of Casablanca pops in my head every time I try to think of the word 'Spanish' in Spanish... err castellano.


Overall my progress is... well progressing. The format of the mp3's have a person say something in English, then you try to say it in Spanish. Then a person says it in Spanish after a pause. I found that once I hit lesson 9a I started to lag behind, and the Spanish answer felt like it was coming too soon. (before I could figure it out in my head) I've solved this by using the pause button, then redoing the same lesson the next day and trying not to use the pause button. So far this works.

I hope this helps and maybe gives you some motivation to learn this beautiful language!

I'm off to China for a month for work, but I'll try to do an update if anyone thinks these things might help them?

[QUOTE=AVID;374120]Well it's been 2.5 weeks since my first lesson and I can say that I'm confident so far. I'm by no means able to take on a Latin American in regular chit-chat, however I'm confident that if I ask the person to speak very slowly (still not sure what the word is for 'slow') than I could have a small chance of knowing what they said. In fact I would probably say something like this:

'yo entiendo castellano pero yo entiendo muy poco. Hablo muy lento por favor.'

'I understand Spanish but I understand very little. Please speak very slowly.' (I looked up 'slowly', but the rest was all Pimsleur)


Sometimes I get confused and lag behind when I forget a word. I use a few techniques to remember the word, here's an example:

The word 'Spanish' in Latin America is 'castellano' (pronounced - CAST-A-YAN-O). For the life of me I could not remember it and so I attached an image along with it in my head. From now on the image of Casablanca pops in my head every time I try to think of the word 'Spanish' in Spanish... err castellano.


Overall my progress is... well progressing. The format of the mp3's have a person say something in English, then you try to say it in Spanish. Then a person says it in Spanish after a pause. I found that once I hit lesson 9a I started to lag behind, and the Spanish answer felt like it was coming too soon. (before I could figure it out in my head) I've solved this by using the pause button, then redoing the same lesson the next day and trying not to use the pause button. So far this works.

I hope this helps and maybe gives you some motivation to learn this beautiful language!

I'm off to China for a month for work, but I'll try to do an update if anyone thinks these things might help them?



Hi

You must translate 'I understand Spanish but I understand very little. Please speak very slowly.' like

'yo entiendo castellano pero yo entiendo muy poco. Hable muy lentamente por favor.'

the verbs conjugations is complicated in "castellano" :clap:

I understand that "natural" ways are less boring/demanding, but having a good basis on grammar is the key to improve your language skills and proficiency, instead of remanining in a "football player speech". Both are compatible, so I'd say it's good to go for the MP3 speech, if that's your personal approach, and then, once having learned a while, study some grammar. Things pop up suddenly and you may say "Oh, that's how/why it actually works!" and it's much easier and enjoyable.

I strongly recommend "Aprende Gramática y Vocabulario", published by SGEL. Book 1 will be enough for you by now. Fullly in Spanish, but affordable. Concise and straighforward grammar explanations with good examples, alongside with exercises (and solutions at the end!)

I've been a volunteer teacher of Spanish for years and I use it in addition to the regular manual.

Don't worry about saying castellano or español, that's a long discussion going on, with español currently prevailing.

Rauleloy, well pointed the important "hable" imperative form being it a request. You are totally right, "mente" suffix converts adjectives into adverbs as "ly" in English, but you don't (always) need it, they are just adverbs in the same form as long as they "describe" the action (verb), instead of the sustantive. But is doesn't hurt to emphasize it with "mente"! :-)

Coche lento (adjetive) or hable lento or lentamente (adverb, remember change "o" into "a" as rápido to rápidamente).

Hope it helps. As Rauleloy said, happy to give hand.

Esteban

For what it is worth;
i took 2 weeks spanish class in Buenos Aires to start my trip.
You do a basic test (which my results put me in the lowest class because I couldn't speak any). But you are in a group of 6 with the same ability.

They spend a lot of time on conjugating verbs, the regular verbs are mechanical but the irregular verbs are a nightmare! For example in English "to speak" we have 5 variants. In spanish they have 53!

Having said that it is very helpful to know the basic rules of the language.

I then booked another 2 weeks in Santiago. The school wasn't as good and I changed from group lessons after the first week. the 2nd week i just spoje with a tutor for 2 hours. It was the best thing I could have done, she corrected my pronunciation and helped with phrasing of sentences.

The best part about school is that I met a lot of good fun people, all travelling and having a ball. The age gap didn't matter as we all had travel in common.

so for my money - book in to a class when you get here. I am still in contact with some Aussies, Swiss and German guys I met on the course.

Suerte!
Delb

Report 3: Catching Up and Making Time
 

Hi guys and gals,

Well as mentioned in my previous report on my progress I was in China for a month on business and came to a few conclusions: It's really easy to not study and it feels like it's hard to find time.

With summer fast approaching, that awesome weather has my mind on cottages, motorcycles, being on motorcycles, and figuring out how to legally marry a motorcycle. Study (I hate that word) is becoming so much more difficult.

While I was in beautiful China I seriously slacked on my Spanish courses (Pimsleur) and fell behind. I was on lesson 12 when I left and now I'm on lesson 15. The point here is that with only a minor distraction, I fell behind - which brings me to my next point: making time.

Making time really is easy, seriously. All of those out there that say it's not possible are just plain lazy (myself included). You can find time in your car to and from work, at lunch, doing the dishes, prepping dinner, or some other creative way. The truth is that you just have to commit to actually doing it and not slack. When I was in China I made excuses not to do it so I fell behind. The result is that I can't concentrate on the new levels without backtracking (like when you've put a book down for too long and you're halfway through a chapter).

So what have I learned?

- When you study, do it when you don't have to concentrate too hard on something else.
- Finding time is easy if you take 2 seconds to figure out when is best for you (20 mins a day).
- China is an awesome place that you should all try to visit!


So what have you guys done to find time/battle your laziness?

There's a weekly "News in slow Spanish" podcast out there as well, good to listen to whilst on the bike.

Spanish Podcast

If you struggle to force yourself to study, which requires A LOT of discipline... enroll in a course. Every Tuesday and Thursday the world stops at 19h because you have language classes (that was my approach, since there is always something to do).

The only fault, if you have to travel a lot (say China 1 month!), then ask your colleagues what they've seen in the class and the homework and do it at the end of the day in your hotel (instead of playing wiht your Ipad). Once bac, try to correct the homework if possible. Study & homework, the key factors.

Cannot find time to study? Then go to work by bus, find a seat and study, so it is not wasted time. If you like reading, get a basic dual language book (1 page Spanish, 1 page English translation) from a book you already have read and enjoyed. You'll remember the vocabulary more easily.

"Mis dos céntimos..." :thumbup1:

Esteban

There is a free site that is worth checking out. SpanishDict | English to Spanish Translation, Dictionary and Translator | Diccionario y traductor inglés español I subscribe to their e-mail Spanish word of the day. They have a good translation software and a couple of other features. Dave

P.S. Delbert hope your trip is going well.

I tried these courses before I went to South America. They are useful for learning how people sound on a tape while talking at half speed using words and phrases that you will probably never hear.

I jibbed them off and did a GCSE at night school one day a week. Then I did an AS. It's easily doable if you have a plan to go somewhere in a year or two. It's really so much better to learn with other people and have exams to push yourself to study for.

However, once I got to Argentina I felt like I shouldn't of bothered at all. Once you get into slang, dialects, accents it all changes. I was totally lost.

I had to go back to basics and just ask bi-lingual locals what I should be asking for and what words people use etc.

The ONLY ONLY way to learn a language is to just listen,try,try, listen, try and then listen some more. Immersion is SO important.

I learnt more Spanish in 6 months touring (mostly speaking in English too) than two years of and countless books, audio books etc


Lastly... TRAVEL ALONE !! You're language skills will improve DRAMATICALLY.

Ride safe, Ted

Agree... and disagree
 

I totally agree.

And I totally disagree, and I explain why:

Spanish is spoken in a VAST area, so vocabulary varies enormously (not slang, but regular vocabulary). However, we all understand each other, we only need to understad the word in the context or just ask. Yes, it's the same for me as a native. When I'm told a REMERA (translates to rower woman) in Argentina, which is a Camiseta (T-shirt) for me in Spain. Like you, I don't know the word. Well, you'll only have to ask "¿qué es una remera?", since you may understand the rest of the sentence and you already have the sufficient knowledge and confidence to ask. Say I go to Scotland and don't understand anything people say. Well, I still can read or ask!

So, what you studied before the trip provided you with the "structure of the language", and that's what allowed you to put in the right place every bit you learnt during the trip. I'm 100% sure that you learnt much more and way faster than someone who knew nothing: you already knew that all infinitives (verbs) in Spanish end with "ar", "er" and "ir", so you could identify them easily, you knew anything ending in "mente" is an adverb (if adjectives define nouns, adverbs define actions=verbs), you knew most words ending in "o" are masculin, while those ending in "a" were femenin, etc. You built the house on well laid foundations. Now look at all those who learnt almost NOTHING in 6 months/1 year and now remember absolutely nothing. Needless to say that you were able speak 100 times more correctly than them while in South America ("me want pork stick").

Of course, getting there will boost your knowledge and cannot be compared to classes once a week. But studying before the trip played a key role and was not a waste of time at all, I'm sure.

But even most important: consider a language as a long term investment, you want it to last, and "what you learn quickly, you forget it quickly" and the language you learn "naturally" (hearing and speaking), you forget it also "naturally" when you don't use it that much. I know this 1st hand.

That applies to ANY language, but much more to difficult ones. And READ once you are back. Get an easy and interesting book and read. You only understand 30%, no problem, go ahead, check only the meaning of essential words, but keep on and you'll improve.

But to keep alive a "naturally learnt" language really requires a titanic effort once you'r back. Then you really have to go to classes and study a lot (although you never know your level: you talk a lot better than others in your class, but make many mistakes in grammar, talk as a football player). Of course, you can be naturally talented, have an excellent memory and be a genious, but just like people who smoke two packets of cigarrettes a day and live up to 100 years.

PS: It may sound weird, but people who speak the language save a lot of money compared to those who doesn't, since they cannot be scammed so easily, can find out more info and get better deals, etc. I've seen it many times and experienced it myself in Latin America, where people took me too often for a "gringo". PS2: All this had to be very boring to read...

alternatives to rosetta et el ......
 

ive always liked learning languages - though in the past this has been a long hard slog...
ive tried rosetta , and found the experience very dull ...

ive learnt that software programs etc are no real help - and no substitute for self enquiry ..

there are some good teach yourself books - which can take you from beginner to intermediate ,, good example : for russian " teach yourself russian in 6 months -dr brown/" for arabic " teach your self arabic -a. gowan ".... but they in themselves can be a bit boring ..

these days ,, i find google translate to be an indespensible means of langauge learning and MUCH MORE fun...

pick a language you are interested in , take chinese for example ... select it as the target language , and in the source start typing in some really simple non idiomatic sentances - and see the chinese translation ,,, keep doing this every day for 15 mins or so ... varying each sentence eg : " yesterday , i wanted to listen to the latest news " to .." tomorrow , i will listen to the latest news " etc etc - after a few months youve not only gained some volcabulary - but a good sense /recognition of grammer ,,, ( if not a concrete knowledge) - learning in this way is much better than reading some boring text book / or worse still using a rosseta type program...


additionally ,,, try reading newspapers from the country youre interested in -
eg ... if learning french ,, go to lefigaro.com and let google translate automatically ,,, hover your curser over each word /sentance and reveal the origional text - bit by bit ,,, you will teach your self to read ....


from reading ,,, everything else follows ...

ive learnt to read russian and polish in this way , reaching a point that i could dump the dictionary and listen to russian radio news on the net - of course at first i couldnt understand a word .... but hour by hour /// week by week - each word that i could hear , i could also "see" as well - the experience became as if i was reading a news article and not listening -which ,,, of course is the stage you want to get to...


from reading and listening , speaking becomes easy -

i think this is the best approach to language learning ...

buck for buck - learning to read is the quickest way to learn a language and gives the best return on any study ...

Report 4: 80%
 

Has it been that long since my last report here? (125 freakin' days!?) If you're wondering why, it's because I wanted to complete the first of 3 units before I got back here. It was a kind of motivation that failed. The excuse is that I spent a lot of time on and inside (not like that you sicko) my bikes, so fair enough.

The real deal here is that I've completed the first of the 3 units. Each unit has 30 lessons at about 30 mins a piece. If my math is correct that's 15 hours per unit. So how that f@*k did it take so long to get through it? I believed I mentioned before that I often repeated lessons in order to really understand each word I learned. I may have been a little to strict on myself though. Once you get to the end of the 30th lesson in the first unit the recording pretty much says:

"If you only got 80% of the shit we filled your head with then you're the right track."

So I guess I'm good. I can comfortably say that I fully understand 95% of what was said, but that means shit all as far as I can tell. I sometimes hear people speaking in Spanish when I'm on the street or leaving my building. It's really cool because if I listen carefully I can pick out 5% of the conversation. FIVE PERCENT!? That's balls, but I figured it would be this way. With no one to chat in Spanish with, these lessons are like what learning how to play a guitar is to actually playing a full song... in a band... on a stage... in front of everyone... and there's pretty girls in the front row.

On the flip side, winter is approaching and I'll have much more time. I'm actually really excited still about learning the language and I haven't gotten all that bored of the audio lessons. The only problem is: YouTube or Pimsleur?

Any Toronto kids want to meet up and form our own Spanish/coffee meetup? That's like a dream come true!

AVID, i can chat in spanish if you want, or you can create a "spanish chating thread"

bier

Well put. Now back to lessons...