gas in peru
 

yesterday I ran into two riders in puno who said peruvian gas had about a 1/3 alcohol content, they procceded to tell me a story about their friends bmw being torn apart by it. ive been in peru for two rides (Copacabana- Puno, Puno-Cusco) and have had no problems running their premium, only available in cities, 90 gas in my 250cc honda xlr.
does anyone have experience on a similar bike, good or bad?
thanks alot,
adrian

Spent 2 months riding all over Peru on a KTM 990. I ran the 80 octane which was all I could find in the places I rode. FWIW, my bike still runs.

... Peru isn't a place to get fussy over gas. 90octane is sometimes available, but typically 84 or 80 is normal. The bike will run a bit lumpy, but with no lasting damage.

... Basically take what you can get when you can get it, the next gas station may be empty!

I saw some postings by the couple who are so worried about the effects of what they assume to be high alcohol content on their BMW's. They seem to feel that Beemers are especially prone to being damaged, and they're convinced the percentage in Peruvian fuel is far higher than advertised.

Maybe they're right: what do I know? But my KLR survived just fine and is still running many tens of thousands of miles later. And the lowered octane is what you need for high altitude, so don't worry about that part. If it's the same couple, they're fine people but overly worried about a lot of stuff which never seemed to bother me, so maybe take it all with a grain of salt.

Hope that helps.

Mark

I am one half of the infamous couple with F800GSs who's engines had melt downs after taking a drink of the notorious Northern Peruvian gas (or at least in Peru it is). Oh how I wish my bike just ran a bit lumpy... doh

All i will say is that Peru has more suspect gas than other Latin America countries we've been to, and this seems to be commonly knows by the locals. So just be careful. Even after our experience we aren't going to alter our route and miss the highlands (where you can only get gas from a jug) I'm just saying that exercising caution is probably the way to go.

It is not clear what exactly broke our engines, but extensive discussion has taken place and what is clear is that a single tank of gas that is "bad" (contains things it shouldn't like diesel, alcohol ... ) can seriously damage your engine.

just my 2 cents.

... Gas is iffy in Peru, but yours is the only report I've had of a meltdown on an F800GS.

... I am familiar with 800s and 650s running here with no lasting ill effects.

... Question - Did you set your bike on to the 'low-octane' gas option in the engine management system?

Wow, 2 800's with destroyed motors in one tank of fuel? You definitely didnt get normal gasoline, no matter how low the octane. My bet is you got pure Ethanol, or worse......

FWIW, my KTM 990 ran fine in Peru, but in Brazil, it doesnt like the Comun gasoline, at all. Runs good on Podium though.

Yes, judging by the results ("melted down"), that was not gasoline.

I once had a guy in Slovakia top up my tank with diesel, as best I was later able to determine. I suppose it was deliberate on his part. The bike ran worse and worse, eventually stranding me in a small, ridiculously expensive town in the mountains. This led to some bonding experiences with local folks and in the end only cost me a day or so. No rebuild, no meltdown, no worries. That was at least 60,000 miles ago.

FWIW, like Crashmaster I heard (and experienced) worse about Brazilian gas than anything in Peru. Lots of Brazilian vehicles run equally on gasoline or pure alcohol, and the alcohol is way cheaper, making it extremely tempting to dilute the gas. However, you know what they say about mileage and variability.

Mark

Edit to clarify:

I had not read posts by Marinomi. I had read posts by (I presume) the people who were describing Marinomi's troubles. Clear as mud? Reading those posts, I noticed a tendency to be concerned about things which do not much bother me. On the other hand, probably there are things which bother me but do not bother them. Besides, I was presuming too much. I meant no insult, and I hope none was taken.

Marinoma's blog, which says that BMW voids their warranty if you use gasoline of less than 91 octane, is indeed alarming stuff. No one sells high-octane gas at high altitudes in South America because high octane gas tends to pre-ignite, causing damage. If you can't use lowered-octane gas, you can't go there....which leads to all sorts of speculation about the suitability of warranteed BMW's for adventure travel in South America, IMHO.

In this same humble mode, I'd suggest that any bike intended for adventure [tm] use in North or South America really ought to be able to run on 10-20% alcohol. We may not like it, but that's the nature of the game: in the USA it's 10%, in Brazil 20%, in Peru who-knows-what.

Yes we did. The entire episode has been detailed extensively over at ADV. If you want to get into the details please post over there (I don't want to hijack this thread :thumbup1:)

Agreed our situation is the extreme but I just wanted to point out that really bad things can happen if you are not diligent. I've talked to TONS of other riders with both Japanese bikes and European bikes. They've put in lower grade fuel throughout SA and had no issues.

So yeah, I just wanted to highlight what had happened to us, because had this not happened, I would still be blissfully filling my bike at gas stations with only a normal level of skepticism.

I dont think diligence will help very much to be quite honest. Once you leave the beaten path and leave the large petrol vendors you are rolling the dice with what you put in your tank.

Back to Brazil..........

I got some real bad stuff in Brazil on two occasions and wound up flushing my tanks both times. I suspect that I got almost pure Ethanol, or a ridiculously high percentage of it that was passed off as gasoline.

I had been warned about this when gassing up out in the sticks, so I was expecting it. My bike has a third aux tank plumbed into the two main tanks with a one way check valve so there is no back flow from the mains to the aux. So, I made sure the aux was filled with Podium (98 Octane good stuff from Petrobras) and closed the petcock to keep it in reserve for when this type of thing happened. The second time I think I got almost pure Ethanol as I went about 10 miles down the road and the bike was surging and backfiring so badly that I drained the main tanks right on the side of the road and used the good stuff in the aux to get me to the next station. I only had this luxury because on my routing through Brazil, gas stations were plentiful and could keep the aux filled with good stuff and only use when absolutely necessary.

You obviously got a batch of something very bad, for any bike, not just an F800.

You can be careful all you want, but sometimes, stuff happens.

Just read through the ADV thread. I can see why you don't want to run through the whole series of discussions again over here.....but I'd be interested in hearing how it all works out (for example, if anything conclusive is ever determined about causes, cures, prognosis) if you're willing to post back here.

I will never complain about my low-compression, carburated bike again. In fact, I think I'll wander out to the garage right now and tell it thanks for transcending all the abuse I gave it!

Safe journeys!

Mark

The bikes are close to being on the road again.

Anyways the official cause for our meltdown is (from Germany): We have been running the bikes on less than 91 AKI, even though we had the re-map option performed in Canada for 87 AKI, and that over time running lower octane gas has broken our engines.
Our broken engines will never be analyzed by anyone, so I don't expect the conclusion to get better than this. This cause was determined by a representative in Germany through pictures and translated correspondence.

As you saw, there are tons of good ideas over at ADV. My guess is that it could have been a combination of a few things.
So what to do about it? We will be putting in premium gas whenever we can for the rest of the trip. I like the idea of putting in a knock sensor (if you were taking a F8GS on a RTW trip) mentioned on ADV is a good one.

oh and for the record, our bikes broke after getting gas on the Panamerican Highway. We weren't even in the sticks... that is why I think people should be careful.

Is the moral to the story, "Buy a bike with a nice small Japanese motor" ? :-)

seems that way :biggrin3:

On a serious note, did I read in your blog that you rode through a sand storm in the desert in Peru ? If so, was it possible that sand got through the filtres ?

I'm finding it very hard to believe that low octane fuel can do that sort of damage.