Crossing Colombia-Ecuador border with international license
 

Hello guys,

A week from now I am leaving Colombia for Ecuador. I have a motorcycle that I bought here in Colombia and all the documents should be fine. However, there is a problem: I have an international license but I lost my Belgian motorcycle license. Will this get me into trouble at immigration? Will I be able to temporarily import my motorcycle into the country? I'm asking this because I wasn't able to rent a car in the US without showing both my international and Belgian license.

Lost license in Colombia
 

Tijidecierck, We have crosse the Colombia- Ecuador border several times and I do not recall any request for driving license. The International license - is it a Pan American license or international license? Both are issued only if a valid State or Country license is provided and the issuing authority takes a photo copy of that license. I would contact the entity that issued your International license/Pan American license via e-mail and request a scan of your original license. You will have to provide the # on the international/Pan American license plus other ID.

Most officials in South America are accustomed to photo copes of documents. So once the scan from your international/Pan American issuer arrives, print it and voila you should be OK until your replacement license arrives from Belgium.

Also, at most periodic road stops by police, your international/Pan American license should suffice. Please verify that the countries you are traveling are listed inside the international/Pan American license - some international licenses do not cover all South American countries.

If you purchased your international/Pan American license from an American Automobile Association you might telephone the # on your AAA card and they can route you to the office where you purchased your international/Pan American license.

Also, never offer documents unless asked, and be very polite and do not mention the IMF under any circumstances.

xfltrate Eat, Drink and watch your watch, wallet, testicles, spectacles and keys

Thanks for the great response, very helpful.

Hi.

Can you tell me more about how you bought the bike in Colombia ?

Thanks, Ted

i don´t have informations for columbia, i haven´t been there yet.

but if you go further south you may will need your european licence(the checkcard) to cross to peru.

they checked at the border and wrote the license number on the tip...the international licence doens´t have a number.

if it doesn´t work out for you...just try the next border station...it´s south america, everybody know the things right and everybody does it different :D

good ride

# for international license
 

Pickypalla, I am looking at my international license right now and it has an individual # (num) in red on the cover upper right hand corner.

What international license are you referring to? Where did you purchase your international license?

xfiltrate

It is actually called "International Driving Permit" and has no legal standing unless the legal Driving License is produced, because all it does is standardise the descriptions of the type of vehicle your license is valid for and provides the info in several languages.
I've always produced my regular license and never been asked for the permit.

There is no such thing as a recognised International Drivers License even though a couple of scamming web sites would have you believe otherwise

International Driving License
 

Tony Lee,

As I suggested in my first post this thread discussing International Driving Permit and International Driving License:

"Both are issued only if a valid State or Country license is provided and the issuing authority takes a photo copy of that license."

Both are issued by the American Automobile Association and do not claim to be stand alone licenses/permits. Yes one is actually named International Driving License and the other International driving Permit.

The issue here is that a rider lost his driving license from Belgium and wanted to know if he could cross into Ecuador on the strength of his International Driving License. My response was when I crossed Colombia to Ecuador I was not asked to produce any Driving License.

No one here, nor the AAA, has claimed that an International Driving License or International driving Permit are stand alone documents. The International Driving License is also know as the Pan American Driving License and covers only Pan American countries and the USA. And, FYI, the American Automobile Association is a far cry from a "scamming web site." Check various foreign Embassies and you will discover many require a valid operator's license plus an International driving License.

xfiltrate

Let's try again. There is no "International Driving License" issued by the American Automobile Association (AAA). Here's an easy reference for doubters or poor researchers: International Drivers Permit.

Note that if you do, in fact, procure something called an "International Drivers License," you've fallen for a scam. It's worthless, except for bluffing purposes. It has no legal validity, no matter how much you paid for it, how long you waited, or how many fancy stamps, seals, watermarks and holograms it features.

The AAA issues two (2) International Driving Permits: one titled, unsurprisingly, "International Driving Permit" (IDP), and another entitled "Inter-American Driving Permit" (IADP). Both are "permits," which in this case means they are mere translations of your existing US license.

Other countries have similar documents which apply to their own license-holders, established per an international treaty signed approximately 65 years ago. This is not recent news.

Some countries do not seem to recognize home licenses, with or without an IDP/IADP: in Guyana I had to get a local, Guyanese license. Same in Cuba. And according to the AAA, some countries don't recognize my actual license, but will honor an IDP--I've never encountered this, but then again I sure don't know everything.

Standard disclaimer: I am perfectly prepared to be wrong about any of the above. Really. Provide an authoritative link to a governmental (or duly authorized) issuer of an actual "International Driving License," valid internationally, and I'll crawl humbly back to this thread and publicly eat my words.

Wishing you happy researching!

Mark

Thanks Mark. Good to get that clarified. I think the same people that sell the scam licenses also flog an international passport they claim is actually accepted by some countries on the third full moon of each winter season.

As for crossing borders, or in fact anything to do with international travel, one persons experience that happens to prove a positive, or in fact 10 experiences that prove a positive, mean absolutely nothing if you can come up with one experience that proves the negative.
I was asked for my drivers license when we crossed from Colombia to Ecuador and again when we crossed from Ecuador to Peru. Don't recall being asked for it at any other border though.

The loss of the normal license means the IDP has no standing AND since I doubt whether any jurisdiction allows people to drive without having a valid driving license on their person, seems to me the OP has more to worry about that getting across borders. When my 5-year DL expired when we were overseas, I went through a very difficult and expensive process to make sure I was sent new licenses before the old ones expired - simply because there is more than enough scope for having things go wrong when all the paperwork is in order so I didn't want to be in a position where I lost the battle right at the start.

Probably the most painful post ever
 

Ladies and Gentlemen who read here... it is with great sadness and pain that I present the following evidence to support my position on this thread. Tony Lee is well versed in international law and might well be an attorney, and Markarf's advice is usually very solid. Unfortunately, and I mean that, in this specific post, both are in error.
In no way do I want this destruction of their mutual argument to reflect upon their remarks on other threads or their character in general. I feel both have supported my positions in the past and I have supported them. Just because they are wrong here does not mean they are always wrong. Matter of fact I have great respect for both of these gentlemen.

Cover photo3062 clearly presents an International Driving License I purchased from a branch of the American automobile Association, Phoenix Arizona with a start date of 01 November, 2015 and expiration October 31, 2016.

Page 1 photo3063 lists the Pan American countries where this International driving License is valid.

Pages 6&7 photo3067 clearly states that this International Driving License was issued by the American Automobile Association on 01nov2015.

Pages 8&9 photo3066 presents a photo of me with the official stamp/seal of the American Automobile Association.

I do not expect the apology from Tony Lee or markarf that I doubt will be forthcoming anyway. But to clarify the matter, I have never stated that an International Driving License is a stand alone document - it must be accompanied by a valid country or State of the US license.

The question originally posed here was whether a Driving License was requested at the border wither upon leaving Colombia or entering Ecuador and my response after crossing that border 4 times was no!

xfiltrate eat, drink and try to remember who your friends are

it got complicated:eek3:

i think it doesn´t make sense talking about US licenses. the guy is from belgium - europe

so, for germany it looks like this:
the international one
http://cdn.auslandssemester-bali.de/...hrerschein.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...erschein_1.jpg

and xfiltrate, you are right, there is a number (i haven´t seen this before :) ) but it is not valid without the european licence
http://www.fahrschule-heyne.de/FS_Vorne.jpg

i bet belgium has quite similar documents. i was not able to cross the border to peru wihtout my european licence, but maybe because i didn´t see the number^^ they just need a number for the tip, thats all, if i have showed them the number on the international license, i think they would have accepted it.


try to make a good copy of your european one (i hope you have them somewhere digital) and laminate it, than try and just in case you have something to show...

good luck


pictures found on google

thanks for the reply
 

The original question was - if a driving license was requested by border officials when entering Ecuador from Colombia. This has nothing to do with geocentric driving licenses/permits. After having transgressed that border 4 times, I responded that no, no driving license/permit was requested at the border. This was the question. Pickypalla, as you might have noticed by now there is a lot more going on here than the original post suggests.

Pickypalla, You seem to be a fairly clever guy and probably get the drift of this thread - it may be a little weird to you, being a sincere person, who only wants to help, but your positive nature does come through and I hope your posting of German licenses has some meaning to someone somewhere.

xfiltrate

Thought I'd contribute, again as with others above, my experiences mean jack. It's just that I've travelled though multiple borders in South America many times in the past year; all the way from Ushuaia to Santa Marta. I was never asked for any drivers licence at any borders, ever.

When stopped in country (very rarely: being on a bike you can hide behind large vehicles and it's easy to avoid eye contact when riding in the ditch/on the verge when undertaking stationary traffic being hassled by el commandante importante = fat bloke in a uniform fishing for a bribe = justifying his existence on the planet = increasing the hole in the ozone layer through his flatulence).

The one or twice I was stopped, I either did the usual no fumar espanol or showed him my colour photocopy of my expired drivers licence (laminated) or expired actual drivers license. On one occasion the matey actually had 2 brain cells to rub together and spotted that date on licence was prior to the actually date. I did have a new real current DL that I was able to flash at said copper.

I also carried a real international DL, albeit one that had expired (Uk ones only valid for 1 year) and had been (by magic?) extended with a biro squiggle and a stamp (from my local library? From when I last climbed the Eiffel Tower?), but it was never available as it doesn't fit in my mugger wallet in my jacket pocket and stuffed if I was getting off by bike in order to access my important documents, hidden on my person, just to satisfy some plod.

Summary to the OP:
1. Don't sweat it
2. Don't stop at road blocks
3. Learn how to use photo editing software
4. If 1 to 3 above fail, use bs or revert to the dumb gringo No fumar espanol. Remember to smile profusely. If you do, they think you really are stupido.

All very good, but you just muddied the water again by calling the IDP and IDL :-)

And the difference between "permit" and "licence" appears to be the root of the argument/discussion.

But yes, I echo all your points and the OP should not sweat it. We were never asked for our licence or IDP at borders from CA to SA.

The only times we had to produce our licences was at police stops, and buying insurance.

In Chile I happily showed the real one to police as they are

a) not stupid
b) not corrupt

Everywhere else it was a copy.

Interesting.

But what I can't see, is what the document permits or licenses you to drive. So it is in effect not a licence IMO.

Note I have used both spellings and the word permit here, which is where all the differences come in.

From mine (and others) perspective there appears to be an IDP (International Drivers Permit). This acts as a translation for the licence you carry from your home nation.

What you appear to have is something that was mentioned in the trhead about an inter-american license/permit whereby there is a secondary agreement between all those countries.

Had a google, as you do, and the AAA would appear to only list an IDP on its site.

Wikipedia, yes I know is not always 100% right, quotes the "Regulation inter-american automotive traffic" I can see in your picture ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intern...Driving_Permit )

So, IMO. It is all just semantics, and for some reason the inter-american IDP has for some reason got the word "license" and not "permit" on it

As license means to give permission I believe it is a left over from the 1943 agreement it is based upon.

Page 17 International Driving License
 

BruceP,
since the discussion was centered around the legal existence or non existence of an International Driving License. I did not photograph all pages of the document. Here I present page 17 indicating the vehicles/moto I am authorized to drive.

All one has to do is check the various Embassy web sites or South American car rental agencies to discover the need for an International Driving License or an International driving Permit to accompany your valid State of the USA or country driving license. This topic is covered on TripAdvisor in detail.

In Buenos Aires for example it was explained to me by the federal police that my Arizona driving license with motorcycle endorsement was fine for driving in the Province of Buenos Aires, but anywhere else in the country requires a standard State driving license for one of the 50 states of the USA or a standard country license plus and International driving License or International Driving Permit.

Each country posts driving license requirements for tourists on their web site. Most South American countries require an International driving License as I have posted this thread plus a standard State (US) or country driving license.

Page 17 International driving License photo3071 allows me to drive car and Moto

I also have a valid International Driving Permit Photo7073

but it is not valid in some South American countries as demonstrated by photo7074
which presents the list of countries where the International driving Permit
is valid.

The International Driving Permit also allows me to drive cars and motorcycles.

chris, you certainly have a distain for South American police. Do you feel that way about all South Americans? After all, the police are people too.

As a final note to chris , your altering of your driving license releases any motorcycle/vehicle insurance you might have from covering your potential liabilities - as all insurance is prefaced upon the insured having a valid driving license. And, believe me they will request your driving license and check its' authenticity before paying any claim. If your are not properly licensed, your insurance company will not bail yo out of jail and you will be charged with an offense. What does photo shop have to do with driver licenses, you are not suggesting fraud are you?

In most South American countries- as indicated on their Embassy web sites, you also need a valid International Driving License or an International Driving Permit. Once you have presented your valid State or country license to the agency (like AAA in the USA) that issues your International Driving License (valid for 1 year only) it can be renewed by mail - by sending photos and current copy of your present State or country driving license.

I finally applied for and passed the test for an Argentine driving License that is good throughout Argentina without an additional International Driving License.

Remember, neither the International Driving License - commonly called the Pan American License nor the International Driving Permit are valid without an accompanying State or country driving license.

xfiltrate eat , drink and don't photoshop your documents

Geeeezz xfiltrate - you are arguing against your own argument.

Why would a license need the backing of a proper license . The obvious answer is that it isn't really a proper license, but merely a certified translation of a proper legal license.

AND just because you got through a particular border twenty times doesn't mean that everyone will get through. I didn't. End of argument.

Also, for you as an acclaimed stickler for obeying all relevant laws to be essentially saying it is OK to drive without a valid license in your possession seems a bit out of character, especially when it is only petty semantics you are relying on to prove a point. Pan American License is just an irrelevant diversion even if the OP could even get hold of one. Regardless of how it was expressed, the actual scenario of no official license and only an international driving PERMIT isn't going to work in all cases and all situations.
DO NO HARM.

Not a "stand alone" document
 

Tony Lee, please read my posts, this thread I never argued that the International Driving License - which you claimed to be the product of a scam or the International Permit were "stand alone" documents.

Perhaps the problem is you did not understand what I meant by "stand alone document". What that means in this context is to be valid the IDL or IDP must be accompanied by a standard license.

I never claimed in this thread or anywhere else that the IDL or IDP were valid on their own without an accompanying standard driving license. If you believe I did please put my quote in your next post, so I can see it.

Can you not at least acknowledge the legal existence of the IDL and the IDP that one or the other is a requirement for driving in many South American countries? Seems you are avoiding your original argument. I presented photos of my International Driving License and documented that I purchased it through the American Automobile Association in Arizona. And theft my IDL was not a scam as indicated by you.

What I suggested to the man from Belgium who lost his standard driving license, was to contact the issuing office of his International Driving License and request a photocopy of his standard license - as that was required to obtain the IDL.
And use the printed out copy until the replacement of his standard license arrives from Belgium.

And, I further suggested that with a copy of his standard driving license and his IDL he might get through the border even if asked for a DL, which I was not on 4 occasions.

xfiltrate

My sincere and humble apologies for not differentiating the difference between and IDL and an IDP. The main reason is that I clearly smile a lot and thought they were one and the same.

I never showed the following licence/permit, but thought the image would be helpful in some way. Interestingly licence can also be spelt license.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...7c42854dd4.jpg

The first time you mention my name: wtf!

The second time you mention my name: As I'm sure you read everything that everyone writes very closely, I'm sure you spotted that I wrote I carry a real up to date current drivers licence/license/permit, so your line of discussion is futile.

Having a copy/doctored document to give to a corrupt polisman in South America or anywhere (I've shown these documents to dubious looking "officials" in Russia/Central Asia and Africa too) and when they wanted to "confiscate" said document for "crimes committed" until a "fine" is paid, they were "disappointed" when I told them they could keep them. Admittedly I didn't say "I have plenty more where they came from".


http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/p...psf0724876.jpg

Exhibit A: Bent copper with nice hat. On road between Almaty and Kyrgyzstan border, Kazakhstan, summer 2012

I think I met him ......
:-)

Wow, so you managed to get both an IDL and IDP ? Sounds like you wasted your money on at least one of them.

What would be of interest though, is if you can explain why if we all go to the AAA site we see IDP listed, but *not* IDL.

I accept these are two separate documents, but am curious as to why only the IDP seems to be available.

I am also curious as to why when most of the world was knocking seven shades of sh1t out of each other in 1943 that someone thought ti was a good idea to go and negotiate a drinving permi^H^H^H^H licence^H^Hse with a bunch of South America countires.

BruceP, thanks for your questions.

Early on I made it quite clear that neither the IDP or the IDL were stand alone documents. Neither cost me a cent because I am a Premier member, and have been for many years, of the AAA and receive both IDP and IDL for no charge - including the photos being taken at the AAA office.

As to your question why on the AAA web site IDP is listed , but not IDL - my best guess would be just as demonstrated by various posts here, there might be a misleading conclusion as to the meaning of the word "License" after the words "International Driving." Some might consider it is a "License" complete without the need to be accompanied by a Driving license issued by a State of the United States or a country. Therefore, there has probably been a sea change regarding the use of the word "License". I certainly never made that mistake, for it was explained to me years ago that a valid State of country license had to accompy the IDP or IDL. Various embassies still request IDL along with another valid driving license already explained here and in my previous posts this thread.

To respond to your WWII question, the Axis powers were making in roads into South America, especially the Germans, and the Allies might have been trying to strengthen relationships with South American neighbors. Maybe, all our spies in South America needed driving licenses for insurance purposes? Who Knows?

xfiltrate