Crooked police...Peru
 

Hi everyone,

Just a reminder about the crooked police just north of Lima, about 80 miles north of Lima if I remember correctly.
I had read about this place on the Hubb and was prepared. Sure 'nough they saw me coming. I was doing the rediculously slow 30kph (about 18mph) long before I entered the puebla of which I can't recall the name, sorry.
Anyway, my spanish is decent. They flagged me down yelling and waving their arms in the air "infraction! infraction"! They said I was speeding. Then they pulled out some 'official' book of infractions and fines. They said the fine was $1,000.00! But, if I paid on the spot I coould get by paying 'only 10%! Afterall, it was right there in the book.
I told them I wasn't speeding and had done nothing wrong. They then asked if I was traveling alone to which I stupidly replied that I was. I refused to budge. Then they asked for my passport. Again I refused to give it up, because then you truely are at their mercy.
They told me in that case I would have to leave my bike and all my gear there at the side of the road while we went 80kms back to the station house to sort this out.
There was no way I was leaving my bike on the side of the road, and they knew this. I was livid with anger. I told them i didn't have that much cash on me, they asked how much I had and I told them $30.00. They said the least they would except was $60.00.
Anyway, I ended up paying. I was furious and told them in spanish that they were crooked cops and that there was nothing worse than a crooked cop, this didn't faze them in the least.
I road away at 18mph, passed through the depressing puebla, and no less than ten minutes later another cop flagged me down as I was leaving the puebla, the same shit, running at me waving his arms so dramatically yelling "infraccion! infraccion"! I stopped, jumped off my bike, my 6'4" frame up against his 5'4" and proceeded to tear him a new asshole. He was totally taken aback and didn't know whether th shit or go blind. I called him a crook and told him if he wanted any money he'd better go see his friends at the othe end of the puebla! I then got on my bike and drove off, leaving him standing there with his lower jaw on the ground.
I don't recommend this tactic to anyone, in the end they've got the guns and you just know their superiors are getting a cut of the action so it wouldn't do much good to complain (I live in Mexico so I'm familiar with the mechanics of all this).
I'm just forwarding the story to relate my experience. I feel really bad for letting the side down. I know once one biker pays up it just makes it harder for the rest of us, but under the circumstances I fell I really had no choice. I later met a German biker who paid up $300.00!

Complain to there cheaf of police that you had to pay $1,000 fee 2 times and you did pay them on the spot in cash. This will get these con men fired or shot when they refuse to give there boss a 50% cut. At the vary least it will make them think before stopping another bike.

Greed is a wonderful weapon it can cut both ways.

No offence Jeff, but you have to wait the police out in my opinion. As frustrating as it is if you keep on hasseling them and lying to them (make sure you stick to your lies, (by telling them you had some money they knew you were willing to compromise)).

Tell them one really big lie and after every question they ask you tell them about the big lie again.

ie. I was robbed yesterday and the thieves stole all of my money and the pocket watch my grandfather gave me the day he died.


I am no expert and I know that every situation is different. Maybe paying a bribe is better than having a gun held to your head. (but not in my opinion)

Why did you pay?

Just wait them out. Tell them that you can all go to the nearest big city police station and sort it out there or otherwise nothing.

Refuse to give them your papers with the explanation that "you cannot be certain that they are real cops, so you will only do it at the station"

They will bitch and whine for a long time, but then they will let you go.

I agree with gg that you should tell that you have absolutely no money and that you wont get any till you meet your friends in the next big city.

Stand your ground and dont get angry...

Just dont pay, because now they will be even more persistent with the next traveller. You are making it harder for all the people who come after you by paying.

Next time better luck man.

I agree with gg that you should tell that you have absolutely no money

I disagree. Unless you've actually done something wrong, I would refuse to discuss the subject of money. If they persist explain you will happily pay down at the station where you can be issued a receipt.

I stick with "I've done nothing wrong...May I speak to the Comandante...Its wrong to pay here...etc. "

Saying you have no money implies you would pay them, is an obvious lie, and surrenders the moral high ground.

You can redeem yourself for paying the crooked cop by saying 3 Hail Marys and chewing out 2 more crooked cops.

I was livid with anger.

Sometimes anger works as in your second encounter but I would advise against it. Dealing with corruption is a chess match you always have to consider your next move. If you get angry and the guy is unimpressed then what? Try and steer the conversation to the subject of right and wrong. I'd even be hesitant to say "corruption" as it escalates the situation. I have waved down another officer and asked to be taken to the station. That worked wonders.

I feel for you man, I've been beaten a couple times by dirty cops. Bad feeling followed by bad vibes everytime you see a cop.

All the Peruvian cops I encountered South of Lima and in the mountains were great. Once they flagged me down to ask about road conditions and to find out if there were any accidents they should be attending to...Lol.

Methods for dealing with crocodile-smiling cops are like cures for hiccups - everyone has their own. After a West African masterclass, Peru was easy enough. But PD's right - if you lose your cool, splutter, and pay-up, then you make it exponentially harder for every traveller unlucky enough to follow in your tyre tracks.

I was stopped a couple of times on the Panamericana north of Lima, and the cops' attitude seemed speculative - bored, broke, looking for an angle. So I chatted, smiled, shared my smokes, treated inappropriate requests as lads' jokes, and made it clear that although I respected their toytown authority, I wasn't a chump, and never paid a centavo. A couple of times I flipped it - spotted a likely-looking cop before he spotted me and stopped, said 'hullo' and asked for directions. Makes it double difficult for the cop to swap heads from 'friendly' to 'predatory'. This double-bluff works especially well when you don't have the right documents, and got me through the Ecuadorean border with expired papers.

Maybe the best tip is this - never let on that you're in a hurry. If they are breaking the rules, they don't want to get spotted by the shift-change or by superiors. So stall. In Guinea, when I reached an impasse, I'd sit down by the bike with a book. Mates of mine in a Landy used to get the kettle on. And LaserJock's right - be very wary about using the word 'corupcione' - escalates, insults, and keeps it 'us and them'.

And as always, let's not get too disheartened by a couple of smalltown pigs running interference, let's not let a couple of irrelevant chancers stain a continent. These tales of wiggly tails shouldn't stop anyone enjoying Peru.

Suerte, Dan

Had the same problem, i think the name of the city was Huacho, about 200 or 300km north of Lima! They asked me for $300,- and i endet up paying 50,- Soles!

You shouldn't have paid him anything. If you were joking about the 50 soles, that was meant for all the other guys that broke and paid. I totally agree with Dan, make it seem like you've got all day if not days. I once started setting up camp. That did it. Sucked having to pack it all up in a hurry, but the feeling of winning the willpower contest was satisfying.

Honestly guys. STOP PAYING THESE DICKHEADS!!!!!!!!!

My strategy for dealing with corrupt officials...
 

My strategy for dealing with corrupt officials at border crossings or traffic stops, etc.:

I have used this procedure is a number of countries ranging from C/S Am, Central Asia and Southern Asia and in all but one situation, met with success. I payed a bribe once in Tajikistan, but this was largely due to the actions of my traveling partner (ignored a cop trying to flag us over).

I go through a series of demeanors in stages.

First:
Be respectful, happy and enthusiastic. Always start with a cheerful greeting in the local language. Introduce yourself formally. Ask for their names, and shake hands (as per custom). Enthusiastically, tell them how much you love their country and admire the people there. You can also compliment their town and ask if there is a good place to stay or eat. They will be much less likely to try for a bribe if they think you may be around for awhile. For borders and check posts, I learn some landmarks ahead and express my enthusiasm to see them. You do not need much in the way of language skills to communicate these things. Ask lot`s of questions and make small talk, directions, gas, weather etc. The longer you talk to a person the more they subconsciously begin to consider you as friend. This process happens very quickly, ask any car salesman. It also helps to offer any type of small gift, such as offering to share your water, a smoke, a small bit of food. Never leave a situation w/o your passport. Also, starting a digital photo session can help create a jovial atmosphere in many places. Don´t use an expensive, professional camera.

Try not to hand over your passport if you are not at a border. Some places you can offer a nice color copy, otherwise you can show your passport while holding on to it. Respectfully, explain that it does not belong to you, it is the property of your country´s government and you cannot surrender it w/o calling your embassy and getting their permission. This is indeed true and they will likely know it.

Generally, this will be enough to get you through. If not, and you get hit with refusals to continue or a bribe, apologize sincerely, and promise you`ll (slow down, fix your bike, get the right papers). Sometimes, if they have taken a liking to you, this will be enough. If not, many places you can try to offer a small gift, depending on the area, a package of cigs or a bottle of the cheap local liquor will be well received. Be explicit that it is a gift, not a payment for a fine (particularly effective in central Asia, where they will often reciprocate with a pen, photo or some such). Sometimes, it can help to act as if you have extremely little of their language or even English, in Asia I sometimes spoke in Spanish to make communication even more frustrating for them, they may soon give up.

Second:
If I continue to be pressed, I quickly change my countenance to very sad. I look at the ground and slowly shake my head in despair. This is particularly effective in in Asia, where they don`t like to feel responsible for changing someone`s mood for the worse. Tell them you have very little money and you are very far from home. Sit in a chair or on the ground as if you could spend hours pondering this terrible change of events. Don´t offer to go to the police station. If there are other people around, you can try asking for help. Pick older people that look local, especially well dressed businessmen. Attracting others attention, may make them uncomfortable and they may drop it. Don´t act as though you are in any hurry and be prepared to wait them out.

Third:
If it seems like waiting and sadness will not work, I will sometimes try to appear as though I am important and have connections. As a college professor, I have feigned that I am a visiting professor and need to contact the Chancellor at xyz University and he said to call if I have any problems. Real contacts are even better. Try to make them as you travel. If you meet any lawyers, important businessmen, community leaders, or government officials in your travels ask for their cards. This can be particularly effective in places like India, where someone of a higher class can truely wield some power others, but can be effective in other countries as well. Tell them you are going to xyz to teach, to volunteer, to visit a friend (that sounds somewhat important, an official, a professor, a large business owner). In any respect they will usually be more cautious of someone who sates he is traveling on business matters than simply as a tourist.

Some places you can have good results by showing them any official looking paper work you may have. You can often make very official looking documents from their country`s embassy`s website in your home country and bring them with you. Make sure most of the text is in a language they can`t decipher. I once used my international driver´s license, pointing out their country and neighboring ones, they had no clue what it was, so I made out it was an international University teaching credential.

Forth:
You can get mad. This will seldom get you anywhere and is not recommended. Still, if you take this tact, remain calm and professional, but deliberate and as though you intend to pursue the matter further. Ask for names and paperwork (receipts, ID´s). Be careful and use judgment in this event as it could compromise your safety.

Finally, do follow up when you get somewhere safe. If you end up paying or not, contact your embassy, other police departments and their department of tourism. Also, warn other tourists on the hubb and lonely planet thorn tree.

Remember, each situation is different and you have to remain focused on your goal. Sometimes, it can be better to consider your desired outcome, rather than on right or wrong. You really should not have to kiss their asses, but would you rather get going or stand up for your rights? Also, remember, your own personal safety can quickly become jeopardized in these delicate situations, remain calm and collected.

I hope this advice can help someone.

Sage advice
 

Nicely put Glasswave. That's worth printing out and taking for re-reading.

Kind regards

Nigel in NZ

+1

Very nice write up glasswave. I will definatly test some of these next time I have the chance. Personally I kinda enjoy these little "stand-offs" so it is good to have a few new tricks to use (-:

And I really agree with having anger as the last and worst solution.

bribes in Peru
 

I just got back from Peru and also had trouble with crooked cops. The first was at the border crossing coming into Peru by Lake Tititcaca from Bolivia. The second was in Puno. At the border we had gone through everything with the Aduana and then the Police wanted to register us and our motorcycles in their book. Then he just flat out asked to be paid. We said for what and he just kept insisting that we needed to pay him but we refused. He finally gave up as there were eating take out food that had been delivered to them and his was getting cold. In Puno I went straight through a intersection that was in fact marked with a turn only arrow on the road. I claimed that I did not have my paperwork with me as it was back at the hotel. He jumped on my bike and rode with me back to the hotel. There I gave him my international license but then he wanted to see the paperwork on the bike. Once he got that he felt safe that he had me. I do not speak much spanish so the guy from the hotel acted as my interpreter but I really did not need one to know what was going on. He kept insisting infraction, infraction, and waving his book at me but he would never write it up. I kept insisting that I would not pay. The guy from the hotel went to the cash drawer and got out two 10 solis notes and said that is what I needed. I kept saying that we would only pay at the police station and finally he said ok lets go to the police station. I said ok we will walk there. He said no I have to bring my bike as it might be impounded. I finally ended up giving him 10 solis as I had gone straight through a turn only lane. He would not take it but had me give it to the guy from the hotel. Then he gave me my paperwork back and he and the guy from the hotel went outside and that guy gave it to him. Pretty sneaky and he did not want anyone else in the lobby of the hotel as he kept trying to shake me down. Once some people came in to use the phone and things just kind of stopped till they left. Next time I will try to get more people involved to act as interpreter as that seems to scare them. I will also take some photos of them and ask for their names. I think they can be beat and I intend to report this to someone else as well. Just not sure who it should be. Any ideas on who we should report this to?

Nice write-up Larry; these things need to be posted.

Regarding problems to the north of Lima; I travelled up this way a few days ago and found that there were many police waving down trucks at the side of the road north of Chancay during the afternoon. Myself and another rider were stopped twice within a 20 minute period. On both occasions we took off our helmets and shook their hands warmly while smiling happily - this seemed to disarm them slightly. We then, without being prompted, presented our licences, vehicle titles, Aduana certificates of temporary importation and insurance, whilst making polite chat. One of the cops tried to suggest that we were speeding, but this argument was quickly dropped as were had been behind a huge truck carrying an oversize load.

The guy I was riding with was on an ex-police bike and told them that he was a police office too; this seemed to help. We took 'friendly' photos of them with the bikes, which they liked.

In both cases we were on our way within a few minutes and not a penny was paid.

my experience
 

hi Guys,
I am a Brazilian riding a xt600e yamaha and I have been travelling for 3 monhts now. Over this time I was approached by crooked cops three times : Argentina, 200 km from Salta ; Peru ( somewhere ) and now Mexico (Playa del Carmen).
The Argentinian told me I needed a first aid kit, which I knew was something crooked cops do there. I argued with him that it was only required for cars, and he was inflexible. He told me I would be able to pay the fine at any place though and he wanted 300 pesos ( 100 usd). I intentionally prolongued the conversation and showed I was very reluctant to concede. after he blatantly asked for money i said i would rather pay the money the official way and he let me go. funny thing is I met a group of Brazilians in Salta who were stopped at the same check point. He asked them money point blank just to ´paint the booth´.

In Peru they stopped for fast driving - much like they did with our friend above . They made up a whole scene, even jumping onto their truck while i was stopping, as if I was trying to evade them. I let them speak and said nothing for 5 minutes. After thata I told them that i was just visiting the country and did not want any problems. I did not show fear though.

I think if you keep talking and do not yield time run agains them. They are all aware about the internet and ramifications.
Yesterday I was approached by a policeman on a motorbike here in Playa del Carmen, close to Cancun. He wanted money. I again spoke to him for at least 20 minutes after which he agreed to give me a less hard penalty- the official way . however after we agreed on that he still wanted money , and started creating problems (to sell facilities) saying he would have to keep my license, etc. It was raining like hell. to tell you the truth I told him i did no feel comfortable but I would ´forget´ some money by the side of a near bench. For some reason he said he did not want me and let me go.
Well that was my experience so far. The problem with bribing these crooks is that they may increase their stakes by saying you tried to bribe them. it is a risky game.
Also yielling at them may work but also has its risks this type of people is not worth . They might find something else and create a lot of problem. In some other situations I mentioned I had spoken to their Consulate in Brazil, and that is always frightening to them.

Cheers. Carollo .

different experience, other techniques
 

just been hanging out in peru for about six weeks. when we spoke to them, we found the police to be without exception polite and easy to deal with. they offered help (not needed), stopped us to chat a few times, and even called their colleagues on the road ahead to give us the green light on a stretch of road said to be dangerous because of banditry. we were asked just once (at the border with bolivia) for a 'donation', and my refusal was taken well.

most of the cops we saw in peru were asleep in their toyotas, maybe waiting for somebody to issue them with a radar gun or something.

you can also avoid contact with the police by hiding your bike behind another, larger vehicle, until you are too close to the cops for them to do anything. i did this a bit in the danger area north of lima, of course will never know how well it worked but we were not pulled over there.

cheers,
andy.

So playing stupid, broke, touched in the head and happy seems to work well good thing Im not to far off from it normally.

Don't know if it's different being female but I've had my fair share of guns being pushed against me from thieving police ... I'm also tall which might make a difference. Most of my problems have been in Africa but also in Central America & Asia with Mexican/Mongolian/Chinese/Russian border police etc.

1. I refuse to speak any of my other languages than my mother tongue (English). I try to remember that I don't understand what the French speaking police are saying. I smile, shrug my shoulders and turn away/ignore them even when they've remembered the English word 'money'. Sometimes this works first off.

2. I have every piece of ID going, all falsely photocopied. Hand over my driving licence, the works (despite never driving myself), got caught out once when they then demanded an AIDS certificate!!!

3. I usually have the name of the Ambassador from the previous country where I picked up my visa, plus the number of the Embassy if I can ... I tell them that I will call the Ambassador in pidgeon English to check to see if this is correct to be asking for more money. There has been several occasions when I've met high ranking military officers along the road & I get their name, rank & phone number, that's worked a treat too. Or I've made up my own details!

4. Lastly, in desperation I call their bluff. I walk out, leaving all my ID with them including my passport. I tell them I'm going to the capital and will find the person in charge and get them & my own Embassy (there aren't that many Irish Embassies in the world, but they don't know!) to investigate why I HAD TO leave my ID with some jumped up little border guard. I've done this probably 4/5 times and it's worked - they mull it over and then come shooting out of their office calling me back

I have paid ONE bribe in my life, due to having a 12yr old child with me & we'd already been rattled by a drunk soldier who wanted to keep her, I will NEVER pay anymore bribes ...

The more YOU pay bribes the more WE have to pay ... DON'T DO IT!

Kira

i'm tired of this game!
 

Glad i found this thread with the search engine. Yesterday i was pulled over a total of SIX TIMES! Between Trujillo and Lima. The police here are an absolute mennace! I'm sick and tired of fighting with them, i spent well over two hours dealing with their BS. Each time they had at least two or three of the locals pulled over, and every time the cop showed me their stack of licences they had confiscated that day. They had radar in one spot also, i could see the trap from another vehicle ahead. When the cop was talking to me, his cell phone went off and i could here Carro rojo, ciento diez! Sure enough the red car came ripping around the corner and right into the trap. At one point, there were so many cars and trucks stacked up on the side of the road it looked like a police counterattack alcohol check like in BC. I'm so sick and tired of this crap i don't even wanna ride here any more! I'm sure the locals are gonna revolt! They need to pay for their licences if they don't have anything to bribe with at the time, and thats about 170 soles! Granted, every time the cops have been very respectful with me, and three times only wanted to chat. One time the guy had me for speeding, my fault! I was going way over the limit and crossed a double yellow, just to pass a line of trucks. In my country this would of cost me well over $100, yesterday it only cost me $10.:oops2: Yup. i've said over and over, don't pay, but the truth is i did break their law, and it was the fifth time that day, i had no fight left in me. This is the second time i've travelled through this country, and all i feel right now is PERU SUCKS! When in Lima, i'm going to file a complaint to the tourism board, if they have one!

Also watch out in Barranca north of Lima, the cops there have a tendancy to trump up bogus speeding charges despite not having any evidence!

Same Same but different a few months ago.
 

I got caught at the same place a few months ago by probably the same cop or his brother in his uniform!! Who's to know? I was running late as usual with a deep rooted hangover after a few days drinking in Huaraz with Marcello in Vagamundo bar. He had warned me about them & said dont pay them anything apart from say 5 Soles as a gift for a drink for being brave enough to stand that heat. It was getting dark & I did not fancy getting into Lima at night & trying to find a hostel, so I kind of lost it in a nice way.

As I am from Indian origion but brought up in the UK I started to bullshit the copper. I said to him here take my keys & keep my bike. My farther is the Indian High comissioner to Lima from India & that his people will come to pick my bike up. I started to write down the car details names etc in my book, & started calling any number in my phone that did not work or have a sim in it. Soon for a possible fear of a diplomatic incident or just being bored of my rant, or not understanding a word of my Spanish he said bugger of in a nice way.

Off I went on my way but did notice a few waves from the other cops ahead on the same road.:scooter:

Gold!!!!!

Well done. Big up for not putting up with their bullshit. Good example for those who prefer to pay these idiots encouraging corruption in a foreign country.
Sound like you had a bit of fun with it as well. I know I do.... :thumbup1:

Interesting. I am on my way down south and will go through Peru in about two weeks time, and is not looking forward to it. I hate cops, let alone corrupt ones. I dont speak Spanish, so will conveniently not understand a word they say, and see what hapenes. I normaly speaks Afrikaans (My home language)to them to make a point I also might not understand English. This normaly confuse them completely, and let me go.
I also dont pay a a thing, never have never will!
We will see.

Johan

This thread was a ton of help before I got to Lima. Basically on my way from Huarez to Lima, I was on high alert.

I was riding with my german friend and had advised him on the corrupt police. Our plan that generally worked was to tuck in behind trucks so they couldn't see us.

We got stopped a couple of times as we were in the open and I followed the basic procedure that Laserjock outlined: Be super polite and let them know you have all the time in the world.

I'd start with introducing myself and riding buddy, then proceed to tell them how the women of Peru are much prettier than ecuador... just keep on BSing about girls and machismo things. It was pretty silly, but fun. We didn't even get asked for money. The key is to dominate the conversation, IMO. Once the pleasantries are done, ask for directions.. start pointing to maps.. Then once you're done with getting your directions, leave!

All-in-all, yeah, the police are a PITA north of peru. But in my experience, once you're south of peru.. no problems at all. All the police checkpoints I encountered afterwards were easy with no problems. They had no intention of asking for money. just the usual how fast/how much questions

Enjoy the ride! I'd rather be riding in Peru than sitting at the office any day!

Just made it back to Lima from Trujillo, no problems. I found that the buses are exempt, so following them closely saved a lot of time. Another thing, turn off your head light! Peruanos don't drive with their lights on, and flash you if you do. Although the speed limits are artificially low, i followed them most of the time and had no problems, just friendly conversations. I was pulled over three more times in two days with no infractions. If they catch you speeding, crossing a double solid, or generally breaking the law, expect them to be a**holes! They will do everything they can to get paid.