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trying to understand it all...just my opinion
The wiki article on Zona Franca in Punta Arenas is informative but seems to be targeted at transactions involving permanent residents and expats coming back to the area. It does not specifically address a foreign registered bike and transfer of ownership or sale of bike from the foreign owner to a new foreigner owner. I interpret the intent of these laws and regulations are to collect taxes on the Permanent vehicle import into Punta Arenas. I am also assuming here that a vehicle with Temporary Vehicle Import status is not of concern to the government until it overstays it’s time limit. Although the exchange of money for motorcycle happens in Punta Arenas, the change of ownership and title happens administratively back in Washington state at the motor vehicle department, in this example with Rubin. It appears that the legal administrative work done in Punta Arenas is that of changing the name on the temporary vehicle import permit (TVIP) with a local notary as the first step and finalizing this by having it confirmed by an Import office (aduana). It seems like the government is not really concerned about the owner in a TVIP situation. They are only concerned about the bike and that it leaves the country before the TVIP expires. I did not read anything in that article that regulates or prohibits changing of the name on a TVIP and in my opinion, that is the real question.
If my assumptions above are correct then you just need to make sure that the state in the U.S.A. where the bike is titled will do a title transfer through the mail. States mentioned where there has been success doing this are, Washington, Arizona, California, Texas, Florida and a few others but you need to do up-to-date research on your own to confirm the current rules. And the rules about transferring the name on a TVIP in Punta Arenas could change at any time also. The used motorcycle you are purchasing has an unknown history by you and possibly a storied history by the governments of the countries it has come through. Your adventure may intensify with each new border crossing as the vehicle identification number is entered into the system. For me personally, I’m not willing to take the risk in time and expense (if the bike gets confiscated due to it’s previous history) and (unknown physical/internal condition of the motorcycle) but for others, this risk/reward balance might make sense to them. Everyone needs to make their own decision based on their knowledge and comfort level with the seller and the bike. I am happy for Rubin and applaud his efforts in making this work so far and I hope his travels north are uncomplicated. I’m sure he will let us know if he runs into problems related to this transaction. And, Why the continued discussion? - Well thats easy, there are lots of people who would like to buy/sell their bike at the bottom of the world. It can be a win/win for those who can't afford or don't want to pay shipping back to their home country. And it's a great opportunity for those who have time to start a trip at this time of year in Tierra Del Fuego, to find an appropriate bike at a discount to head north on. Until there is a document out there that specifically addresses the concerns, rules, regulations, fees, pros and cons of doing this type of transaction, the questions and new posts and arguments and discussions will continue. |
As always, others might have different experiences.
Buying an RV in the USA | Drive the Americas Quote:
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On a sidenote....
I am waiting for title and registration to be forwarded to me from the US by my uncle. Because i was not clear enough they got shipped by regular mail. I got tired of waiting and decided to cross border to Argentina with a (crappy) copy of old title in sellers name and a notarized bill of sale done in Punta Arenas. I have now been back and fourth across the Argentine/Chilean border three times.
I am not necicarlily recommending this but it sure as hell worked for me. Nececity is the mother of invention. |
I didn't read all of Rubens "explanation", all I can say to whoever is thinking about doing this:
DON'T DO IT. even if you manage to get the bike registered in your name in Punta Arenas. There is NO WAY you travel out of the Zona Franca up north. As I said before: If you are not a resident of the Zona Franca for at least 5 years you can not use a Zona Franca vehicle in the rest of Chile. Aduana will take it from you once you enter "non Zona Franca Chile". Otherwise, what would be the point in having a Zona Franca if everybody from Santiago could go there and buy a half price car and use it back home all year??????? Groschi |
How so sure?
You are outright wrong groshi. You can take chillean "zona franca" vehicle of of zona franca, but only for 90 days out of the year. A customs agent at the Zona Franca told me this himself. Regardless. Most foreigner who buy a bike there will be taking it out the country anyways, so this is of less importance. I find it interesting how some people are so sure of themselves here, although I have been given information straight from the source. I am in Punta Arenas!
Anyways. I am not asking anybody to take my advice, I am just dispensing the knowledge I have been given by the aduana office upon inquiring. A friend of mine is about to sell his bike to another foreigner, they will proceed to try to change the title Into a Chilean one. I will ask them to post here after they are done with the process to tell how it went. Again. If you actually know something, please share. If you are just speculating, at least state you are speculating. I was almost about to cancel my trip down here because almost everyone was saying it was impossible to reregister. I am happy I didn't, because I now have new Washington title and lisence plate in hand, in my name. |
very good news
Rubin86 -
I have been looking for several days now on how to sell my Washington licensed KLR to a foreigner in Santiago, Chile. Your last post was very, very good news for me to read. Just to double check here, the previous owner of the Washington licensed bike (I assume the person is a US citizen?) simply went with you to a Chilean notary and had a bill of sale completed? what else was required from the seller? Did the seller need to get a RUT as well? Casey |
Good luck;)
Hi casey. I reccomend you read the part where i explain how to sell a bike in the zona franca. Note that it might be a different process(or not possible) since Santiago is not a tax free zone. I really don't know.
Previous owner was not Us citizen, but had bought and registered bike in the state of Washinton and driven it down. Yes you will need notarized bill of sale, no you do not need a RUT to sell a foreign bike, neither do you need one to buy a foreign bike in the Zona Franca. Good luck. I'll be in Santiago in a few days, could definitely give you some advice! Do you maybe know of a good KLR mechanic there? |
serious bummer
Hey Rubin86,
I may have got myself in a bind here, if I can't find a way to process the sale of this bike I will have to return a deposit to the Frenchman buyer (who is in Argentina) and figure out how to get rid of the bike down here... I'm actually in Valparaiso and will be in Santiago this weekend. perhaps we can get a beer and share some tips. I'll PM you my contact info |
All is well that ends well!
I wouldn't start worrying quite yet. I'm just don't wanna tell you all is good to go because I simply don't know. But I THINK you should be fine. The regregistratio. In Washington is the same, no problems. The only problem might occur when the buyer exits the country with new papers. Drop me s line, I'll be in Santiago this weekend and maybe we can meet up
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Quote:
I'll be in Santiago tomorrow, you want to get a beer? |
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You will need a US address to register a bike in Washington, but a foreign drivers license is fine. I know this because I don not have a US lisence. Would be cool to meet up, but I gave some stuff I need to sort out with the bike before I head north so I'll have to see how much time I have:)
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Washington title change confirmation
I just got off the phone with the WA DOL and got it confirmed that I can change the title to the frenchman via mail, now the challenge will be the TVIP. I've read a few places that both the seller and owner need to go to the border and leave country under the seller's name and reenter under the buyer's name. Have you had any experience with this or heard anything from other travelers?
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I just bought a motorcycle in Punta Arenas from another American. He had the original Alaskan title with him, while I am a Pennsylvania resident. We had to do the following steps:
1. Go to a notary (the one with all the plants on the first and second floor near the central square is the best one, as some others did not have the correct paperwork) and get a notarized bill of sale. This required the title, both of our passports, and his TIP. A few signatures, some thumbprints, and 5,000 CLP later, we were out the door. 2. Go to the aduana in the Zona Franca (it's actually ACROSS from the main shopping area, so to your right at the big roundabout by the port as you're leaving the city towards the airport) with the notarized bill of sale, TIP, title, and passports. I filled out the back of the title as the buyer and they canceled the seller's TIP and stamped his immigration papers so that he can leave the country and printed out a new TIP in my name. They also provided another document showing that I am indeed the owner of the motorcycle. I am now cleared to be in Chile for up to 90 days and enter other South American countries. Note that I have NOT yet gotten a new, Pennsylvania title. This will not matter for S. America, but I obviously couldn't cross into the USA with the old plates and title. I wanted to get a PA title and plate before I flew down to meet the seller, but they required a rubbing of the VIN. I will fly back to PA from Lima in a couple months and take a rubbing at that point and get a new PA title and plate and fly back to continue my trip... so at that point, everything will be in my name and I can legally cross back into the US. From what we were told at the special aduana, this is probably NOT something you can do outside of the Zona Franca. I'm also unsure of the process for non-US passports. Just like Rubin86, I'm not here to argue or debate about the legality of this process, specifically from the point of view of the American DMV. But we were told by the aduana officers that this is fine for South America for all border crossings, etc. Tomorrow I will cross the Argentinean border after purchasing insurance in Punta Arenas and I'll update you when I've changed countries. |
Need on the ground advice....
Bravo Sojourning Mendicant
Make sure the vin rubbing can be legally done by you.... and an authorized Pennsylvania DOL "vin rubber" is not required.... We ran into this barrier in Bolivia and had to ride 300 K to find someone authorized to do a vin rubbing.... Were all or any of the following documents, in addition to the title, required to be presented by the seller to the notary prior to receiving notarized transfer of title document? *Inscription - (ownership document, previously stated as provided) *Permiso de circulation - (road tax) *Certificado de emisiones contaminantes (emmisions certificate) *Technica Class B - (roadworthy certificate) *Certificado seguro obligatorio accidentes personales (third party insurance) My PMs are backing up with requests for my opinion on this matter, please respond. thanks xfiltrate |
As long as I physically present a VIN rubbing to the PA DMV, it doesn't actually matter who did it originally. But this was the reason I couldn't get a title/plate before I left; they actually DO accept a digital photo of the VIN, but only by a US dealership or police officer, or a foreign police officer with the correct form. The PA DMV actually told me, "Oh yes, in Chile, the police offices should all have a VIN form for the PA DMV, so your friend can do it remotely that way." Yeah right.
All that we provided to the notary were the title, VIP, and both of our passports. I'm not sure what you mean by inscription.. is that the same thing as a title? We definitely had none of the rest of the mentioned documents. The seller did have to buy insurance for Argentina, but never had insurance (or needed to provide proof of insurance) for Chile. I would assume that the documents you mention are possibly/probably required for a Chilean-plated vehicle, but that's purely speculation. Again, not guaranteeing that it will go so smoothly for everyone else, especially if you have non-US passports, I would assume.. but it was incredibly easy for both of us and the notaries and aduana officers were all extremely warm and helpful. The aduana officer had us sit behind him at the computer to double and triple check all the info for the new VIP and ensured us that we are both able to legally leave the country (the seller without a motorcycle, and me with the motorcycle). As noted before, one notary did not have the 'bill of sale' form and the local aduana by our hostel directed us to the aduana in the Zona Franca (and was kind enough to call ahead and give us the name of the person to talk to, so he knew our situation as soon as we arrived).. so the specific notary and aduana that I mentioned in Punta Arenas are definitely the ones to visit and the folks who have done this process before. |
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