UK to Italy, best route....
 

Hi, I'm hoping you can help. I'm a little bit new to motorcycle travel and touring. I've previously been from UK to Hamburg and obviously found it no trouble, I blindly followed the sat-nav, and had a map for back-up. This time I'd like to travel to Italy, the region to visit is yet undecided but I figured I would explore the west coast.
I have enough time for the trip, but am keen to get there as reasonably swiftly as possible. I understand I have the Alps in the way, I can take a choice of tunnels, or go over the tops. I've studied Google maps, and tried route planning with Google and Via Michelin, but obviously I can't tell what those routes are like, and I'd rather not discover for myself that I planned to go a tough or time consuming route without being aware of what I'm getting myself in for.

Can anyone offer any advice, paste me a route they've taken themselves, or assure me that all the roads are pretty good, and I should take a balanced route based on sat-nav, web routing, and common sense ?

If you do make route suggestions..... Although I want reasonably swift progress (certainly the the way back) I'm not a great fan of auto routes / motorways

I'm probably worrying for nothing ?

I'm a great fan of side roads and if you've got a good sat nav planning system you could construct a cross country route using the D roads which tend to be (a) fairly straight and (b) avoid many towns. But it might be one or two days slower than using autoroutes.

If you want to get there quickly there's no substitute for boring autoroutes but Google is likely to route you on the A26, A5, A31 which are all expensive toll roads. And the other 'gotcha' is that you'd need a vignette to travel on any of the decent Swiss autoroutes.

I have a Michelin map of France that I've marked up with highlighters to show all the free autoroutes and free motorway-standard dual carriageways.

Using that I'd suggest Calais via A16/A25 to Lille and Maubeuge, then Charleville-Mezieres, Metz, Nancy, Besancon. Then it gets a bit messy as you loop underneath the western tip of Switzerland towards Annecy, Aosta and Genoa.

UK to Italy, best route....
 

Buy a map of 'Route des Grandes Alpes' and follow that through the Alps - great on a bike (got to do the tops)

Further north look up Route des Cretes and pick a route through the Vosges and Jura mountains.

A combo of the scenic routes on Michelin maps and the routes shown on www.bestbikingroads.com will see you right.

Enjoy!


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thanks guys, great advice. I'll be honest, I'm a bit scared of this journey, especially being alone, but if I don't try, I'll never know !
Getting lost in heavy traffic, on difficult roads, causing stress and frustration isn't my kind of thing, but meandering through pretty villages meeting freindly people, without a care in the world, is more my style !

You'll be fine Paul - trips alone can feel daunting but are great experiences too. That route is big on joy and light on traffic - nothing to fear. Alternatively if you would prefer a riding buddy why not post up in the travellers seeking travellers section?

Where are you based? I'd be happy to chat through some routes and places to stay if it would help (I'm based in Bristol and spend a day a week in Reading).


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My first piece of advice - relax; "you've nothing to fear but fear itself". It's so easy to let the worries overwhelm you and what should be a relaxing ride through a great part of the world becomes a flight from danger where the only place you feel safe is on the bike at 60mph.

Assuming you've got a reliable bike, riding down through France (probably the best route if you're heading for the west side of Italy) on a sunny day is one of life's great pleasures. I head down that way often (we have a rental flat in the French Alps about an hour from the Italian border) and over the years I've used a whole load of routes. They've all got good bits and bad bits but in general the southern half of France is more interesting than the northern half (in my opinion) - but of course you've got to get there first!

If you're going to be a bit apprehensive when you first get off the boat / tunnel it might be a good idea to do a few miles on the autoroute first. The A26 will get you to Reims in about 3hrs and by then you'll probably have got the hang of riding / overtaking etc on the right and how French service stations work. You'll have to pay for it (take a ticket at the "peage" about 20 miles out from Calais and pay when you come off). After that I'd suggest sticking to the regular (= free) roads.

From Reims I head for Epernay, Sezanne and down to Troyes. From there there's a great 100 mile ride via Chatillon sur Seine to Dijon. After Dijon you've got a choice of routes but the Route des Grands Crus (the wine route) along the valley of the Saone river is an easy cruise if you're not in a hurry. It's hard to get lost as you have the river and the autoroute over on your left.

Lyon is a city best avoided. It's got a great centre but it's easy to get lost on the outskirts so from Macon I head for Bourg en Bresse and then via the D1075 to Grenoble. As you approach Grenoble you'll see the mountains rearing up in front of you and Grenoble sits in a valley overlooked by the huge presence of the Vercors national park.

You can go right through Grenoble on a short section of (free) urban motorway and then take the N85 (junction 8!) towards Briancon. That's a great ride through the mountains in the summer months with no heart stopping edges to worry about - although if that's your forte there's a turn off to the Col de Galibiar (misspelt but I get an auto beer icon if I do it correctly) about half way along. At Briancon you're on top of the Italian border and about an hour from Turin.

Meeting people, especially when you don't speak the language, can be difficult. Make the effort though. Riding along just using automated fuel pumps, buying food from self checkouts in supermarkets and staying in credit card hotels (like Ibis Budget) is no way to see the country. Relax, accept you'll make a fool of yourself now and again and remember - ride on the right!

Temporaryescapee : thanks for your offer, I live in Blackpool actually, I'd be happy to chat any time, it's all a learning curve, and the advice really helps

Backofbeyond : those routes sound great, I've made a note of the route you suggest through the mountains, I feel sure that's the way I'll head, thanks so much for the route guidance :)

Paul

I agree with the others, don't stress about it...every trip has some of the good and some of the bad, but it sounds like you can squeeze in much more of the good on this trip. Good luck and ride safe.

As others have said, don't sweat it - you got on OK riding through Germany.

If you really want to save time, then I would stay out of the Alps and ride south within France, enjoying their highways which are so much more free of traffic compared with the UK - drop onto the motorways here and there when they are toll free and then back onto the national and departmental routes.
Most French towns have bypasses to skirt around them; the French highway authorities recognised a good idea from the UK quite a few years ago and they have now constructed loads of roundabouts - just get used to going around them the "wrong way" and become used to counting the exits counter-clockwise rather than clockwise.

At the bottom of France, turn East and enter Italy.

Just to elaborate a bit, what I say here is one of those "6 and two 3s" kind of answers.
Because you haven't said what time of year you will travel - for winter, there is little point in heading into the Alps except for the skiing.
In the height of summer, e.g. August, I try to avoid the Alpine areas (although I may be breaking that personal rule of thumb this year just to find out, yet again, why I have that rule of thumb in my mind).
Try the Sud Tyrol (German speaking northern Italy) on the way, if you do go via the Alps.

ps
From Blackpool you can cross the sea via Hull-Zeebrugge and that bypasses the M25 around London and the Dartford bridge.

Can't agree with avoiding the Alps in the summer - the French ones anyway. I've been riding them in the summer months for decades, even running commercial classic bike trips through them (till a couple of years back) and I can't think of anywhere I'd rather be June - Sept / Oct.

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r..._DSC4258-1.jpg


Not quite the same in winter though - :laugh:

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r...k/_DSC3247.jpg
(view from my flat window)

The only problem with the "round the edge" route is "le grand depart" in mid July where the whole of Paris decamps to the south coast. I've been caught in the resulting traffic jams (anywhere from about Avignon on) too often on both the autoroute and the ordinary roads to go there in the summer now. Four hours in the peage queue at Nice was the last straw. They do have a better class of jam though with open top Ferraris queueing up one after the other :rofl: (that one in Antibes).

I suspect we are saying much the same, but with the key variance that you had, and still have, a reason to be there (which is also why I may be around the French/Swiss/Austrian/Slovenian Alps area during most of August - still TBC but I would only do that because of others who may manage to "drag me along" for their pre-planned ride).
During the "high summer" I would likely head to the Vercors national park or play in the Massif Central rather than the Alps but, anyway, Paul2129 is heading for Tuscany it seems (at some time of year that is not defined) so why spend time anywhere in the Alps since he says he is on some kind of (undefined) time schedule?


That's what I had in mind when I referred to "high summer".
Certainly, Nice is not nice.
Nor Monaco.

The other Grand Depart to be avoided is the Tour de France route and dates.

Nor, in suggesting the ride south through the length of France, did I mean literally arrive at the Med before turning left although that is one possibility; I wouldn't be adverse to clipping the southern edge of the Alps, perhaps via Briancon, to enter Italy if I were heading to Italy.

ps I have put a like on your post for the pics alone - especially the cbx 6

Hello when do you plan to ride to Italy, Paul 2129? What bike do you have for your trip?
I am in the northwest of England also.
I would like to go at the beginning of June and am finding this thread very useful.

What a beautiful summer shot, Backofbeyond :)

Hi folks, thanks for all of your replies. Well, the time I had booked off work was in one weeks time, unfortunately, pressures at work, and a few personal ones have left me in a dilemma. The fact that I feel I have little time to plan a carefully constructed route, and little time to pack and organise myself for the trip. Question is, do I shove things in my pannnier boxes, grab the map and sat nav, sit and make a few notes, download some info regarding hotels and campsites, write down a few towns I'd like to visit..... And hit the road ?

Fact is, I do love Italy, but that doesn't make me knowledgeable about it, and the excitement of the trip was Bourne out of the fact that I really don't know what I should expect will happen.

If I do the trip, I'll certainly post my experience of the forum here, I can guarantee it'll be an interesting read :)

Paul


P.S. To the gentleman who was asking about June, touring, keep in Touch, I can get plenty long weekends off work :)

Only you know where the balance lies and if there are pressures (of any sort) on you not to go you'll have to decide what takes priority. If you're going on your own though you should be certain you're happy with your own company, particularly if there are things left unresolved back in the UK.

If all of that isn't really an issue I wouldn't worry too much about planning. The difference between planning everything to the last detail and not planning anything at all is more one of philosophy and personality than anything. For the sort of trip you're looking at I'd consider the basics (will the bike break down, do I have a back up plan if I can't find a hotel (camping is easiest), do I have somewhere to aim for, a destination, in mind and, most importantly, what's the weather forecast for the journey out. May in France could go either way and it's not my favourite month in the mountains - still cold and snowy with most of the high passes still closed.

Serendipity counts for a lot and tends (for me anyway) to take over from planning once I get going. Take L.P. or similar with you, use it to get you started and then just do whatever turns up. You don't have to see everything at once and it's not so far you couldn't go back in the future.

If you do need to have a plan make sure it's your servant not your master. I've called off trips at literally an hours notice because one of the important elements changed and I've got others I want to do but haven't because I can't make the whole thing gell in my mind.

Amen.
Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance - it comes to mind once again.

Absolutely. :thumbup1: One of my early trips was wing and a prayer style on a Honda CB72. Good karma (and Japanese engineering) got me there and back. :rofl:

East...... Otherwise things could get a bit wet.

:innocent:

I really think you're over-thinking this...as long as your bike is ready and you have some kind of luggage set up, you're all set.

You're not going to Siberia, if you need something along the way, you can pick it up enroute, and you're not likely to get irretrievably lost in a place like France. Personally I prefer riding with a SatNav, but it is certainly not necessary, and the only other thing I'd really recommend is some kind of paper atlas or map that will allow you to choose routes which look interesting, and where to end up the next night. And there is no reason to do this in advance, I usually make my plan for the next day over beer at dinner, or sometimes over breakfast before I head out. I have ridden some awesome roads, and some horrible roads, and stayed in some amazing places I've never heard of, and some real dumps that others raved about. It's all part of the fun.

You generally won't have any problem finding places to stay without any reservations, but if you're really worried you can find something on TripAdvisor for the next night. If you're travelling at peak times or through really popular areas, try to stop fairly early, by 3-4 if you're worried about finding a room, because rooms fill up the later you go. Generally I don't reserve in advance because I never quite know when I'll want to stop. Sometimes I'm feeling great and could ride for hours, other times I'm exhausted and find a nice spot so I'd like to stop. For me little ruins a trip more than the feeling that I "have to be somewhere" by the evening, or the next day.

As an example, last summer I rode about 8000 kilometers from Moscow to Murmansk to Norkapp, down through Norway, to Sweden, caught a ferry across the Baltic to Lithuania, rode through the Baltics and then back to Moscow. The grand total of research/planning done before the trip:
1) I checked that there were places to stay at/near Nordkapp; and
2) I checked that there was a ferry from somewhere in Sweden to Lithuania.

Just get out there, you'll have fun!

Italy trip
 

Hi Paul,
Just reading your post, though I'm answering a little late, I'm exactly in the same predicament as yourself nervous about a trip on my own, let me just say if you need company to do a trip to Italy,I would love to join you if you ever decide to make that trip.
I'm originally from Blackpool myself, bispham to be exact now live in Nantwich. so let me know regards Nick.

Accommodation from Calais to Briancon
 

Hi travelling Calais to Briancon solo and wanting to stay in B&Bs any good recommendations ? I am travelling nearly the same route as motoreiter recommended route to paul in previous thread, any recommendations greatly appreciated thanks Jez

Re Briancon, there is a problem atm with the obvious route there from Grenoble along the Romanche valley. There was a landslip near the Les Deux Alpes turn last summer and when I was out there a month ago the road still hadn't been completely repaired. The detour is via Gap - a somewhat protracted journey. I heard conflicting reports about whether the road was still completely shut or whether the bulldozed dirt track around the slip was open to suitable traffic (4x4 ok but not trucks for example).

Other than that the world is your lobster, as they say :rofl: I've travelled the route from Calais literally hundreds of times and as long as you avoid Paris (imho) you can't really go wrong. Mileages vary from about 630 (draw a straight line on a map and find the nearest roads to it) to about 900 (our return route last month through Switzerland, Germany, Luxembourg etc).

The autoroutes are quick (one day if you push on) but pricey and you don't really see much of France. Real back road meandering has taken me three days to do the same trip and the overnighing costs would have covered the autoroute tolls. I've tended to either camp or stay in cheap chain hotels (Ibis etc) so the odd b'n'b I've used have been found on the basis of just driving past them when I felt like I'd had enough.

If you've got a reliable bike, a gps, smart phone, credit cards and some cash then there is nothing much different than riding 50 miles from your house.

You're just anxious about the unknown. Which is why its 'adventurous'

A leep of faith is all you need.

Its fun.



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Hi taking that route to Briancon end of September , have you any accommodation recommendations
Thanks Jez

Isn`t there a train from Holland to Italy that you can take the bike on ?


Seem to recall being told this at some time.

Hi backofbeyond, I have ridden to Tuscany (just outside of Pisa) a few years back but took quickest route by following my satnav. Planning another visit for 2019 and interested in using the more scenic toll free roads after Reims. Would appreciate any road numbers as the trip you describe looks pretty good. I intend to buy myself a map this weekend however; any road numbers would help. Thinking of camping along the way and would assume that there will be plenty sites throughout France?

Fill your boots with camp sites.
Very few municipal camp sites in France are poor quality.

List of Municipal Campsites in France

2019 - You're planning ahead!:thumbup1:

As Walkabout says France is stuffed full of municipal (= run by the town as opposed to private companies) campsites. I've stayed in a few of them over the years on the route down to the Alps that I outlined.

Starting in Reims, go over the Montagne de Reims (a slightly hilly area) on the D951. Campsite 1 is the municipal site at Epernay - on the banks of the Marne river. Stick with the 951 south to Sézanne and then the D373 towards Troyes.
I've never camped in Troyes (only used hotels) but about 10 miles east is a lake /park area, Foret d'Orient. There's a lot of campsites there but they're mainly commercial sites (= quite expensive) as the whole area is a kind of family holiday zone. I've stayed in 2 sites (can't remember the names) there over the years and regretted it each time.

From Troyes head south on the D671 towards Chatillon sur Seine and about 10 miles later turn right onto the D971 towards Dijon. There's municipal sites at Chatillon (not stayed there) and, further south, at St Seine l'Abbaye (v quiet small village). There's a municipal site in Dijon close to the lake and near the centre of the city that's one of my favourites but it's v popular and fills up early each day.

From Dijon you can either head south on the D974 (through the wine growing area) to Chalon sur Saone (a busy road and not that much fun) or, from Dijon, go slightly south east on the D996 towards Seurre and via a bit of twisting and turning to Louhans. There's a nice municipal site there behind the sports stadium and backing onto the river. It cost me €4 last time I was there. No food though and Louhans closes early.

From Louhans take the 996 towards Bourg en Bresse (through chicken land) and out south on the D1075. That'll take you all the way to Grenoble along (for part of the way) the valley of the Rhone river. There's quite a few sites along the river section from small municipal ones to huge Butlins type places (Vallée Bleue) but they're all too close to home for me.

Take the A48 (urban motorway) for a few miles through Grenoble (it's a nightmare otherwise) and leave at junction 8, the N85 to Vizille. Then take the D1091 along the Romanche valley to Briancon. There are a cluster of campsites near Bourg de Oisans (3 posh ones at the base of the hill to Alpe D'Huez). There was a landslide at the Lac du Chambon a few years ago that blocked the road and still (as of Jan when I was last down there) wasn't completely fixed but EU money should have done it by next year. Briancon is on the Italian border if that's where you're headed. Reims to Briancon is about 500 miles.

Oh, and ps. There are an increasing no of speed cameras on the route I outlined. If you see a sign that looks like a speed camera there will be one in the next mile or two. They're grey boxes at ground level as opposed to our yellow boxes on a pole.

To add:

I have camped at the municipal site that is owned by the city of Troyes.
It has a small cafe there which cooks reasonably priced, simple evening meals.
It is located adjacent to a canal and to the east of the city, from memory, and is easy enough to find - especially with a smart phone navigation database!
That was about 3 years ago - I don't imagine that it has changed much.