|
Iran to Bangkok questions
I'm planning to get to Thailand and to avoid the massive complications of Pakistan, a country I'm not bothered about visiting in any case I figure the easiest thing for me is to ride from london to Iran and then load my bike as freight at Bandar Abbas and ship directly to Thailand with me flying over.
My questions are, has anyone done this? What sort of costs are involved and how easy is to enter Iran? I know they don't legally require a Carnet so how easy is it to cross the border without one? Is it possible? I'm in the UK so the Carnet cost and hassle is a serious problem for me with the RAC charging 500% of the cost of my bike and they look to only pay back half of that to me. I'm still looking into this though as I had hoped to visit India. Any help gratefully received. |
Quote:
Why do you think that Pakistan has "massive complications" and what are you refering to? In fact Iran visa is much harder to get than Pakistan. Iran has higher CDP garantee 400% or higher. Don't dismiss Pakistan, it all too often is overlooked and wrongly so, I think you'd be plesantly surprised by Pakistan if you gave it a chance. There are only some areas that are off limits. IMHO I personally felt much safer in Pakistan than in India plust think of all the flood damage that was caused just recently, you would help contribute to the recovery by bringing your tourism $$ to Pakistan. |
As far as I know, you definitely need a Carnet in Iran. We used it a few months ago.
If for some reason things go wrong and you have to leave the bike in Iran, you may to import it, get a stamp in your Carnet and then the deposit back in the UK, just in case. We had to do it with our car, a Renault 5 (my girlfriend said plainly NO to Pakistan right after the floods). Here's the post. In our case, it took as TWO months to get the Iranian visa -we applied for 60 days-, although I had already gotten it two years before. Intrincate but wonderful Iran, worth any effort. We met a couple who was shipping a VW T3 van from Bandar Abbas to India and it cost them a lot (they argued there is little traffic). Don´t know for a bike, but I wonder if it wouldn't be worth shipping it by plane: avoid extreme heat, distance, save time and even heavy Indian bureaucracy may be also easier (and that counts a lot in India). Anyway, I still regret having missed Pakistan... (probably she doesn´t doh). Maybe you are still on time. |
Heavy Bureaucracy
I loved Iran and would happily go back and I don't blame Jtw000 for not wanting to have the hassle of escorts and police checkpoints in Balochistan (Southern Iran and western Pakistan), but in an effort to paint Pakistan and India in a realistic light and not have cheap unfounded shots let me clear the air.
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Afterall I have more paperwork at home then when travelling, all the banking, credit cards, rent, car insurance, house insurance, and it goes on an on. Quote:
|
Nothing personal but the fact is the amount of paperwork and trouble to get into Pakistan and India makes it a lot less worth it for me. They're just places I am planning to pass through on my way to SE Asia. In SE Asian my money goes further and it's a lot easier to see where the road takes me. My biggest issue is the carnet about which we, in the UK get a very raw deal. I'm busy working it out but horror stories on here are making it look like the RAC basically keep half your money and I'm looking at a £12k bill which is just not going to happen. Hopefully these are just horror stories but I don't know yet. On top of that the other people posting on this forum are saying Pakistan is very difficult to get the Visa for. Marrying up the short term visas to three different countries all making access difficult sounds like we're stepping into the realm where it isn't fun any more and frankly, if my cash is going to the flood victims then they should make my money more welcome. As it is it's a battle to cross their border, that's not very welcoming. I'm aiming to get to Thailand by the most expedient route. I'm looking forward to the journey but I have my eye on the goal. Once I arrive I'm joining others to go touring Asia so the journey there is just a part of it for me. The touring Asia is the part I'm looking forward to. If Iran is also going to make this hard I'm also looking into just shipping my bike from the UK but where is the fun in that?
|
You want to avoid the presumed hardships of Pakistan & India - but you´re still headed to Thailand? If I´m not completely mistaken, that leaves China as your only option, (and that´s been discussed here so many times, maybe its not worth repeating any more). Or maybe you plan to ship your bike to Thailand from somewhere. That should be possible.
India - to me - was tough, noisy, hot, smelly, with a fair bit of bureaucracy (especially when sending the bike to Thailand from there!) - and probably some of the worst traffic on this planet, and lots and lots of it!! So a bit of a crazy experience - but still do-able, and very much worth doing, even though I´m not sure, if I´d want to go with a bike again. Maybe I´ve grown old, and I´ll just fly to Goa next time!! Oh yeah, and both Iran & Pakistan were much better than you´d think from the news! edit. There have been some reports on this website of entering Iran without a carnet. But how this works (or if it works at all) I cannot comment, because I had this paper, when entering the country. Pakistan & India you won´t be able to do without it. |
Quote:
But you're loss if you decide to not travel in this part of the world. Just do everyone else a favor and keep your opinions to yourself if you haven't travelled in these countries so as not to bias the topic. |
OP - if you're interested in making your money go further, you are probably as well spending as much time in Pak/India as you can!
Indian / Pakistani bureaucracy - from my experience the amount of form-filling and stamping to get in/out was, with 1 exception no different to that for many other countries, on a par with Syria or Iran and CERTAINLY better than Egypt - YouTube - Getting Two Land Cruisers Through Egyptian Customs Also bear in mind that you're not going to cause yourself any less bureaucratic hassle at the borders by whizzing through those countries quickly. The amount of form-filling and stamping at borders to get in and out is the same whether you are there for a week or 3 months. I concede that getting a visa extension may involve a bit of bureaucracy, but not a lot, in the case of either India or Pakistan. Am sure bureaucracy in somewhere like India is a much bigger problem if you're trying to do business there rather than simply travelling. The 1 exception to this that I found was dealing with Customs when getting the car shipped out of Calcutta when I was leaving not with the car but by air, and at least some of this could have been avoided had I thought to arrange the shipment with a bit more notice - see the Overland Travel Tips section of my site overlandcruiser.net for more on this. Re the Pak visa - yes, from what others have posted on this forum it appears harder than it was in 2007, when I simply got mine from Tehran. But I assume you have a UK passport and that means you should be able to get one valid for 6 months valid from the date of issue from the Pak High Commission in London, no? Carnet - I was lucky, as I managed to get a German one which I am told is no longer possible for UK-registered vehicles per se BUT have a look elsewhere on this forum for the latest as there may be alternatives eg getting temporary German registration. |
Don,t worry about CPD in Iran. I was in March in Iran without CPD.
Try to enter border morning, not evening becouse of long time preparing car documents. It cost for my Defender about 300 EUR. It is possible in Iran and Pakistan to drive without CPD, but don't try it in India. I have never heard of anybody who enter India without CPD Bartosz |
Turbocharger, you're biasing the topic yourself. I have to laugh at your comments of spending tourist money to help their economy when the country clearly does not want me in it and makes it as hard as possible. I myself have not traveled in India which is why I want to go there but trying to form a balanced opinion from the people who have is leading me to believe it's not really worth the effort. I do still want to go. If a met a person acting the way these countries do I would just not bother with them. It makes no real difference how nice or otherwise India and Pakistan are, this is purely about the cost and ease of getting through. I am going to Thailand. I'm planning to work in Bangkok for 6 months and then myself an my partner are setting up a business. Riding out there is something I want to do which is why getting to Thailand is the goal.
I know India and Australia are the only two countries in the world legally requiring a Carnet (I presume by CPD you meant Carnet) and of the others who take it, there are ways round of various degrees of possibility ranging from low to much lower. It's not so much the paperwork as the costs involved putting me off because I don't have money to burn. I want to travel through and was planning to ship my bike the last leg but the hassles are starting to outweigh the dubious benefits. I have had to rule out China due to the crazy costs involved (turbo might now jump to their defense and say that would have been worth it too). I'm currently wondering about shipping the bike directly from Turkey or even flying it from Russia. Does anyone know about Train travel overland in China? I had heard the trip takes only 24 hours but do I still need the same paperwork? |
Quote:
Quote:
hmmm, and what about Egypt, Libya, New Zealand, Sudan, Kenya, Uganda, Indonesia, Japan, not to mention half of South America! But since you know everything, why is it that you seek more advice? (it's a rhetorical question) On a serious note if that is possible but since you're used to taking everything I write with a grain of salt then it should go down well. doh You could fly from Almaty (Kazakstan) to Bangkok, there are same relatively cheap flights from there. Alternatively like you said yourself, just fly straight to Bangkok (if you can get out of the UK with all the airport closures) :D |
Ok, there's no need to be a dick. I'm only quoting things I'm reading on here. I have to leave in June/July, that doesn't give me much time so I'm working hard now to figure out the best options and the first move is seeing what is possible for my first big trip out of Europe. As i said before I want to go to Iran and India. Pakistan I can take or leave but the other two countries are on my wish list but I don't have time to figure out every wrinkle on my first trip so i'm trying to keep this feasible.
Why am I even explaining to you? You have a huge chip on your shoulder and don't have much to add to the conversation apart from insisting for some unknown reason (and I would love to hear it) that everyone has to visit pakistan. Ive never said or implied it is any harder to get there than any other country requiring a Carnet. Don't know where you get that from. I will say your advice about flying from Kazakhstan is interesting and I thank you for that. I am here, as a lot of people to pool resources and experience. If you've got nothing to add then stop adding it. If you want to help then that's great but please, stop trying to be the Pakistan/India pusher and just lets get back to answering the original question which will help out me and probably a host of other people figuring this stuff out. Back on topic... All friends again? Seriously, the advice is interesting and I will go and check that out. Kazakhstan was no on my to-do list but I'd be interested to give it a go. To get there I would have to cross Russia (something I did want to do) and for that would I need a carnet? I know the Visa is tricky but I gather it's do-able. (these are questions.) |
Kazakstan and shipping from Almaty
Glad we got that out of the way, my nickname is **** but dick is also fine.:innocent: So I'll try to be more constructive... yes friends.:rolleyes2:
I haven't been to Kazakstan but I think Bjorn (also with the same username on the HUBB) who is travelling at the moment might have back in 2008-9, but I'm not certain. According to the FIA info I have Kazakstan recommends use of Carnet but it's not obligatory. See this thread although they mention Almaty as very expensive... although I there isn't any quote, you could try the shipping database. http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...ambodgia-29211 Airastana flys Almaty to Bangkok but they may not allow bikes see here as they are dangerous goods and are prohibited... http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...es-south-53533 Sorry but it might be a dead end, still you could ask Airastana about their policy on motorcycle transport and report back for anyone else in the same position. The other options to avoid Pakistan would be Iran to UAE or Oman then India. I flew into Nepal in 2009 from Bangkok and it was very straight forward. If you do go the India it might be easier to got to Kathmandu and ship from their as it is a very common air-freight route for motorcyclists. |
Kazakhstan did not require a carnet when I was there in June 2008 and neither did Russia when I was also there before and after Kaz. It's not that interesting a country to visit, although the people are fine.
I must also put finger to keyboard re your comment about a whole country not wanting you there because they make it difficult to get in. Don't run away with the idea that, because a border crossing is hard, the rest of the population of the country don't want you there. It isn't so at all! Often, especially with places like India or Pak, the bureaucracy is just as much of a hassle for the locals. It isn't a malicious ploy to stop foreigners getting in. One thing that does annoy me, however, is the way the Pakistanis have started requiring UK passport holders to apply only from the UK, and to have a letter from a Pakistani sponsor and so on. It’s what the UK does to Pakistanis, so they do it to our people as a sort of diplomatic ‘tit for tat’. Fair enough, but why can't they take it out on UK diplomats rather than innocent tourists who don't make the rules? BUT - that is NOT representative of how the Pakistanis would treat you once you're past the border crossing. |
I know, i can't think of a more officious country than the UK. Living under the bureaucracy here is horrible. I would love to say the people are nice though but sadly that is not my experience. My partner is a foreigner visiting with a student Visa and frankly, at times it's embarrassing and I have given up apologising for our multitude systems. Outside of London the people are much better, to be fair and Scotland, Cornwall, Wales (maybe not Wales, the police have a thing about bikes for some reason) are quite decent and very easy to get along with.
Plan B was to ship the bike from Iran which takes 20 days and then I was hoping to fly to India and my partner was hoping to meet me so we could backpack for a few weeks. As I said, India was on my wish list. I'm also going out to Europe for a month in March so my priority right now is getting the bike ready as I chose a machine with a great engine but no ability to take luggage and only a 10litre tank. Ho hum. In the mean time I'm trying to get my head round all this. No mean feat. I never really thought much about Kazakhstan. I mean its only claim to fame is that Borat comes from there. I like that they don't absolutely require a Carnet but this might not be as big a problem as I fear. My application is posted so I wait and see what the quote comes back like and see what my options are. I don't want to sound too negative but I'm very keen to go to Iran. I really feel like this might be our last chance to see this country before the troubles spread and more borders close in the future. |
Yep - you sound like you are at the same place I was at prior to my trip. I did not allow myself enough preparation time. I bought the Landcruiser at the end of November 06 for a trip starting 3 months later. That should have been more like 6 months MINIMUM before the start of the trip. A lot of my preparation was done using the ‘lastminute.com’ and ‘just-in-time’ methods, which caused unnecessary stress and running around for me and unfortunately others at times. Moreover, some work I had done had snags and getting it done sooner before leaving the UK would have allowed more time to sort these out. I also ended up having to buy things at a higher price because I needed them by a certain date, rather than having time to wait till they came up on ebay etc.
The same applies to the non-vehicle preparation. If, like me, you plan to rent out your property while travelling then getting it ready and all the other adminy settling-of-affairs stuff is sure to take longer than you think. For me, the whole month of February 07, after I finished work but before I left the UK, was spent doing this – I didn’t even have time to go to the cinema. And this was nowhere near enough. Between finishing work and leaving home – 2 months minimum, or more like 3 or 4 if you keep working till the last moment and do the getting ready stuff in evenings and weekends. Have you looked into the German carnet angle? |
The absolutely cheapest way (and probably the most hassle-free, too!) to get you & your bike to Thailand would probably be to ship it from Europe, and find cheap flights for yourself.
If you want to do that route on a budget, you won´t be able to go fully overland anyway. But by shipping you´d lose a lot of adventure on the way of course. Europe to India or Nepal, and send it to Bangkok from either one of these, is what many travellers do, and I believe few regret, that they didn´t send already from Europe! But it requires the carnet. And also going thru Pakistan (unless you´re willing to send the bike twice along the way). I´m not sure the carnet is really such a monster, as people travel with them all the time. And it´s something you can (and should) arrange before leaving home, so after you´ve gone through that hassle, it´s pretty straightforward with it. Naturally everyone has to decide for themselves, what they want to do. This kind of travel is sometimes exhausting, fighting the red tape can feel stupid, and big trips cost money. There´s not a whole lot you can do about those, except just deal with them. (But I´m not saying it isn´t rewarding, too!!) |
..thought I'd put in my pennies worth!
just come across this thread.
Jtw000-have you had a chance to have a good chat to Paul Gowen at the RAC in the UK. A great and very informative and helpful guy. The RAC (issuers of the Carnet) do in no way keep half of your money....there are many ways in which to 'sort-out' a carnet. And it has been worth its weight in gold for us during our 8 years on the road. You have the option of securing a Carnet in many differnet ways and not all countries require 500% security. I am almost 100% sure that you will need a carnet in order to enter Iran with your vehicle. ...but things are always changing and we were in Iran at the end of 2009. We did not have too much of a problem getting a visa for Iran. we used David at Stantours in order to get our letter of invitation and authorization number etc. but we were doing it whilst on the road and did not apply in the UK. We hear things are a little more difficult when applying in the UK on a UK passport. If you do change your mind about entering Pakistan I do not think you will be disappointed. Have a read of this 2ridetheworld.com : diary but I do understand if this holds no interest to you. Im not trying to 'push' Pak but it is a fast and cheap way to get across from Iran to India. Shipping/flying is going to cost £££ and like most travellers, you are on a budget. getting into India is not too much of a problem for those with a UK passport. Visas are quite easy, you always have to jump through a few hoops....and pay some ££. in order to get that precious visa stamp! You do not say where your girlfriend is originally from (I dont think...but I have only had a quick read through) so cant comment on the visa issues she may or may not have. I am assuming too that you are travelling on a UK passport. BTW you havent said which bike you intend to use, but a 10litre tank should not be a problem in the countries you have stated you wish to visit as fuel is usually readily available. You also say that you are keen to go to Iran - we are pleased that we were able to visit - just make sure that your girlfriend is fully aware of the 'respectable' dress code for women. I am sure she already is. but note that some cities are more conservative than others. kazakhstan was a great country to visit.....we also have a complete section on this country on our website too....so its best to just go and read if you have the time and are considering going. We place information up on our website in order to 'help' others learn by our mistakes...and believe me..we have made many in 8 years! As you really want to visit both Iran and India please really do consider a quick hop through Pakistan. You will be escorted. We suffered no additional problems with this, or additional paperwork or costs. Infact it all turned out to be rather favourable and less costly than shipping directly into Thailand...although Im not too sure you can ship directly into Thailand from Iran? As I said, things change rapidly and I last researched this almost 2 years ago. One of the fastest, cheapest and easiest ways of getting into Thailand from travelling overland through Iran is...Iran - Pak - India - Nepal - Thailand. the shipping from Nepal is inexpensive and fast. I can receommend a very good company if you are interested. We did this in Nov 2010. this also gives you the chance to visit Nepal....what a beautiful country this is. Riding through the foot hills of the Himalayas is a real priviledge...but there again...so is travelling generally! I hope that your planning goes well...it is definitely the most stressful part of the pre-journey. Once on the road you'go-with-the flow'. How do we deal with the bureaucracy of other countries...? Well, we have visited 70 so far and have learnt to take a deep breath, put our feet up, make a cup of tea and smile! safe travels. |
Thanks Lisa, that's a very encouraging post. I want to do this overland but am hedging my bets. I have 6 months before I leave so I'm still optimistic of arranging the paperwork.
My partner is from Thailand hence heading that way. We have plans once I reach Bangkok including a lot more traveling, she is currently in the UK with me and yes, I hold a UK passport. As for my choice of bike, it's a BMW G650 and the 10 litre fuel capacity is currently being addressed. The bike is now in my living room having brackets made up to support a 5 litre booster tank which takes my range up to 200 miles, I will carry about 100miles range in bottles as well to top up as I go. I believe you can ship directly from Iran to Thailand by boat but that is not my first choice. I have not spoken to anyone about the carnet but am going on horror stories I have read on here. Although they paint a grim picture I am applying in any case. The RAC apparently do charge 500% to enter these countries although the countries require only 100% approximately. My bike is only worth about £2500 but that does make the money side a bit unmanageable. Of course this information is based on things I have read. As for renting my place I am in a lucky/unlucky position of having been made redundant and homeless last year so am living currently in rented accommodation in a place where I have to take my bike indoors so it doesn't get stolen.... again. I am out of work still and have plenty of time and have a bit of cash hidden away. Not enough to waste but enough to make a big difference to my life. |
carnet
i am in thailand and as far as i know you will need the carnet for laos and cambodia. vietnam is impossible to go (cc limit 250).
if you ship to malaysia you need also the carnet. not when you enter overland. does everyone quote the real price of the bike when applying for the carnet? i do not think so. so a lower but still realistic value helps you as well. |
pm to you Jtw000
.Jtw000 .pm sent.
rosner walter...yep, I think you are right on all counts :-) do you live in Thailand or are you traveling here at the moment? |
Still not sure what your concerns are with the Carnet. Assuming you tell RAC your bike is worth say £2k, @ 500% that's a bond of £10k. You take the insurance option which is 10% so you only pay £1,000 and get half back when you return the Carnet. Just call Paul at RAC, he sorted mine out for me while I was in Australia.
Regarding the visas, I got all mine on the road with no forward planning. None of it is hard. Although I was not able to get a Pak visa in Bangkok (told me I needed to get it in my own country), I got it in Kathmandu, no big deal. Indian visa was got in KL, just fill in the form, hand over the fee and passport and pick it up 5 days later. Iran visa was also got on the road, first applying through Iraniavisa.com to get an approval number, them picked up my visa in Quetta. It's all do-able wherever you are really. Regarding fuel tanks, I'd really try and get a 20L after-market tank and forget about the bottles, they'll just get nicked. |
ah ha!
ah ha! so thats where the 50% is! I was wondering. So the ins way is just like anyother kind of policy that if you stop it/cancel it after the year has begun you do not get your full premium back.
We had the same thing with one of Simons medical insurance policies. We went the bank guarentee way. never any issues. I think Jtw000 is addressing the fuel capacity issue at the moment. anything 15 litres and maybe over is poss will be fine for the areas that he is thinking of going. |
Quote:
Vietnam, I don´t think there´s any size limit, they just forbid foreign bikes. But it appears you could enter á la China (not easy or cheap, though!!) Malaysia is officially a carnet country, but I agree it seemed pretty relaxed at the land border with Thailand. Maybe you could enter without the carnet, but would that possibly get you some trouble later on, I cannot tell. |
I shipped my car into Malaysia in Feb 08 and was asked for a carnet (which was stamped), and was asked for it again when leaving via the Kota Bharu border crossing.
|
Regarding the tank for my bike bottles are the only solutions. There are three versions of my bike, two have enduro only seating and mine has a more friendly seating position which was why I went for it. Sadly the larger tank will only fit the enduro bike, the X-Challenge so I'm stuck with bottles. That's fine though, the auxiliary tank I have feeds through the breather giving me a respectable 15litres. Bottles will be hidden somewhere and if they do get stolen it's not the end of the world.
On this subject I have heard that theft is extremely rare. The reason I mention this is I'm torn between metal panniers and bags, everyone is recommending bags saying that it's very unlikely they will be stolen. The fact is that will not have anything particularly valuable in them in any case. Thanks very much, Lisa for the message. I will go through it properly and reply. |
Quote:
Quote:
|
Have recently travelled this route
Hi there,
Just thought I'd give my 2 cents here... I'm currently in Nepal having travelled from Ireland and passed through Iran, Pakistan and India to get here over the past 4 months. Out of all the borders getting into Iran from Turkey was actually the most laborious and I would be amazed at anyone who could do it without a carnet as this was the first thing I was asked for. In comparison, getting into Pakistan and India was very straightforward. The Pakistan customs even let us camp at the customs house! Pakistan is wonderful and the police escorts quite straightforward. India was hard work with chaotic traffic but still worth seeing. The pakistan visa was indeed the most difficult to get but is still achievable. If cost is a major factor here I'm not sure that the cost of shipping will be any less affordable than simply travelling through these countries as Pakistan was especially cheap. If you're not sure about travelling through Pakistan and India then that's fine but I would be very sure about the carnet and availablility if shipping from bandar abbas before you leave as, as i've said, I would be shocked if you could get into Iran without one. Regards, Helen |
Quote:
YouTube - Getting Two Land Cruisers Through Egyptian Customs On a more serious note, I think you can actually get into Iran without a carnet - there are some other threads on this forum about that. I can't comment, as I had one when I entered through the Sero crossing. |
| All times are GMT +1. The time now is 22:27. |