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Abandoned Landrover?
Hi all
Hope this is in the right part of the forum. For over 3 weeks now there has been a Landrover parked at the end of my road, which I have been keeping an eye on. It hasn't moved in that time. It's M reg and looks to be in reasonable condition, with a couple of nice accessories like a snorkel, bull bar, full length roofrack etc etc, plus a number of Wolf storage boxes inside. It doesn't have a tax disc and a couple of weeks ago I wrote a note along the lines of 'if you don't want this vehicle any more can we have a chat - here's my phone number?' and put it under the windscreen wiper - interestingly the note has stayed there untouched ever since. I am beginning to wish this vehicle was mine! I believe there is some kind of rule that allows anyone to apply to DVLA to get a logbook of an apparently abandoned vehicle transferred into their name, but DVLA will not get involved in any subsequent disputes if the original owner resurfaces. My question - anyone have any experience of doing this? Thanks |
Mark, Hi.
I think the legal situation depends in whether the vehicle is 'abandoned' on private land or a public road. If it is on a public road it is at risk of being clamped/removed for no tax - so get a move on! You can obtain the Registered Keeper details from DVLA for 2 or 3 pounds. |
Hello Tony - good to hear from you.
It's definitely a public road. Will DVLA give out that sort of info - I didn't think they would. Data protection and all that |
Have you tried the police, explain the situation, maybe its stolen !!.... they might be happy you contact the owner before the troubles start....
The DVLA have helped me in the past, I had a part share in a car which didnt work out well, with just a letter they sent a new log book in a new name... Let us know the out come ... sounds like cheap motoring to North Africa |
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I would have thought trying to contact the owner and talking to your local police would be a good start. I can't imagine someone would just abandon it though, more likely stolen. Good luck with your find. |
Just to add, some years ago nice chap turned up at the parents door, his car had broken down, could he park it in front of the house for a few days while he arranges the repairs with a mate, 10 days pass and Dads a little worried and finally contacts the Police, another couple of days pass and they turn up... yep you guess it, stolen ....
Dad wad horrified to think he had a stolen car parked outside his house ... Go to the police .... |
Abandoned?
Fairly certain that you can get the info from DVLA, try them or carefully ask the Police
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The DVLA are definitely in default with Private Parking Contractors as they abdicated their responsibilities of control to the BPA who have proved to have used this power incorrectly for their own member's vested interests and not administering/controlling that trust properly. But DVLA again don't care as long as the cash rolls in. If interested here is a recent comprehensive submission to the Parliamentary Transport Committee. Note Clauses 37 onwards www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201012/cmselect/cmtran/writev/dda/dda09.htm Sadly, the Politicians fluffed it when persuing this as the DVLA wriggled with a certain amount of 'economy' with their responses. Here is the Parliamentary Committee's session with DVLA which considered the matter. Player Mark, To the query in hand - DVLA will give RK details to anyone who has 'reasonable cause' to know and pays £2.50. They are pretty elastic in their interpretation of 'reasonable cause' being only interested in getting their paws on your money to shore up their own budget. Wanting to offer to buy it could be included as a reasonable cause. Causing an obstruction also. But don't give its location, otherwise they will pretty quickly send their own local DVLA clamp team round to clamp/remove it to try to get 'out of Court penalties' for themselves, if they realise it is untaxed on a public road and know where it is. |
I don't know about UK but it could be the same as here in Denmark, where everything without an owner, is "lost property" and belongs pr definition to the state and handling or keeping it, will amount to the same charge as "handling stolen goods", so be cautious.
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Unless stolen (previously, or by the 'finder'), found items become the property of the Finder, provided reasonable steps are taken to locate the Owner. This can include reporting to the Police - in which case a period (3 months I seem to recall) must pass before the new ownership is properly established. Possession of items does not automatically mean Ownership - but it greatly assists the position if it was acquired in circumstances suggesting it was abandoned or lost. There are added complications with vehicles as there is not only the Owner but the Registered Keeper (RK), who need not be the Owner, to consider and DVLA's serpentine system to avoid being clear or helpful. The first step here is for Mark to ascertain the RK,s identity and address. A further complication is, without displaying a current Tax Disc it is reasonable to assume the vehicle has no current 'tax' and therefore, being on a public road, is vulnerable to actions of the Police, DVLA, Local Authority, Civil Enforcement Officers ( the current term for Traffic or Parking Wardens) - as well as Mark! Mark knows my Email if he wants my further opinions of the way forward. I am only 90% sure on this so prefer not to possibly mislead people by posting my view here. And a language point for students of English - For some reason we always use the term 'Lost Property' when we really mean 'Found Property'. Living among Russians who regularly question my use of English I have learned to see these oddities and anticipate their queries, often (or even, phonetically, 'ofen'doh) before they do! |
That was actually a useful point made by pbekkerh, as "I am interested in the vehicle but don't want to lay myself open to the offence of handling stolen goods" would have been a good answer to the expected "what business is it of yours?" question when I approached the police to enquire whether it was stolen. As it turns out, they were OK about it and should let me know yeay or nay tomorrow.
The difficulty was that I couldn't simply tell them the address it's at because, if the RK hasn't abandoned it but simply left it there while he goes on holiday or something, I don't want to drop him in it over the tax disc. If the police tell me that yes it is stolen then I will tell them the address as I am sure the RK would like to know it's been found; if they say it isn't then that's 1 possibility eliminated. The plot thickened a bit last night in any case as, when I got home, there was an identical but newer one parked right next to the one I was interested in - making me wonder whether the 2 are connected and causing me to leave a note on that one too! |
Didn’t your neighbour tell you he’s into Land Rovers J
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Ha ha - I was either wrong about the 2 being owned by the same person or the owner didn't want to play, for yesterday evening the 2nd one was gone and I didn't hear from him.
Also heard from the police this AM that the one I'm interested in 'has no issues' meaning it's not stolen, although they did confirm the road tax has expired. Unsure where to go from here. |
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You could ask the Police what they recommend. And do it anonymously without vehicle details or location. Could you physically remove it (tow, hot-wire, whatever) to private land to protect it from DVLA no-tax clampers? Check with Police the legality of this too. |
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2nd - I will try. The one who gave me the details this AM didn't seem to know. 3rd - I don't have access to any car-sized pieces of private land within 300 miles of here and I think the police WOULD object to that!! Tomorrow AM I will leaflet / knock on the doors of all the houses nearby asking them if they know anything. UPDATE - since I started writing this, I have had a VERY interesting chat with DVLA, which will no doubt prompt a further outpouring of fire and brimstone from Tony :D But seriously - I called them to try and get from the horse's mouth how to take over an abandoned vehicle. In the process of doing so, I gave them the reg no and they said it HADN'T BEEN TAXED SINCE 2009!! They tell me I am advised to confirm no objection from the police (I have semi-done that already but nothing in writing) and council and then send off a form V62 to apply for the registration to be transferred into my name. I will need to write ABANDONED VEHICLE where it asks for the VIN no. They will try and contact the keeper and then if the keeper doesn't respond within X number of weeks I will get the V5 in my own name - takes 4-6 weeks. Also that if it does get taken away in the meantime, I can get it released by whoever has taken it (police, council, DVLA) on production of the V5. |
Bloody fantastic news, good luck... maybe if possible move it onto your land just to prevent any scumbags damaging it.... . or ensure it doesnt look dumped, eg keep the tyre pressures up and remove any crap... even wash it...
:-) |
Hello everyone
Before I start, I swear I didn't know this before yesterday evening. I deliberately called the vehicle a Landrover and didn't give the location because, if it really was abandoned, I was worried about others trying to do what I was trying to do. It is in fact a 1993 LC 80 series, in London. It isn't stolen. It isn't a ringer. It isn't abandoned. I won't be reporting it to the police or DVLA. And I won't be trying to claim it. I was surprised that it hadn't been taxed since 2009 but there is a very good reason why it hasn't been busted for all that time. It's been on an overland trip! When I came back from my own trip in 2008, various people contacted me for advice about overlanding and one of them came and saw me 2 or 3 times and bought some stuff from me in late 2008. He then went from not having a car at all to passing his test, buying his LC (which I never saw at the time), driving it across Europe and into Algeria for the start of his trip all in the space of a month (!) I did follow his trip for a while but had't looked at his site for some time - the last time he contacted me was way back last year when he'd reached Alaska and wanted to sell his vehicle, so wanted the text from the ad I had placed to sell my own vehicle. I have posted re this on another website and was prompted by comments about the vehicle being possibly a ringer if it was listed as untaxed since 2009, and that I should get the police to examine it before sending the V62 off to DVLA. Equally I didn't want to do that as I knew they would simply tell the council/DVLA it was untaxed and it would get taken away. So, just in case there was any mention of this numberplate on any of the Landcruiser websites (like those for Landrovers) I googled it and I am glad I did, for a story came up about it getting towed by the police in India - they thought it was the car of a Pakistani spy!! Now it all makes sense. Looking again at the overlander's website shows that sure enough, he didn't sell the vehicle in the USA but shipped it back to the UK. It was complete news to me that this person has moved into a house at the end of my road - or has sold the car to someone who does live there - and I have emailed him for a chat. In any case, the vehicle was (finally) gone when I came home yesterday evening. Thankyou and good night! Mark |
Bloody hell... at least you have your answer...
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Mystery over!
Sorry you didn't 'win' it, but you can have fun catching up. Pity I can't come along for the beers. It would be decent to warn him pretty fast that his number plate has been publicised on the Web as being on the public streets in UK while being untaxed for over 2 years. Some rule abiding 'jobsworth' might delight in reporting it and landing him with a hefty DVLA penalty and back-tax bill. Presumably while away it was SORN or listed as exported, otherwise he can expect their automatic penalties anyway when he 'surfaces'. There could also be further penalties and 'back-tax' bills for being on the street while under SORN or exported. He can only 'back tax' it for January until tomorrow - after that applications paying for January will not be accepted. Recent enquiries for its status may have already flagged up an alert with DVLA. (Sorry to be the Party-Pooper. I don't make or like the rules, nor the way they are implemented - I just try to make sure I know them!) |
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The damage may already be done, but I have just edited the above post as you can see. |
:wheelchair: for ilesmark
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Landrover
Great story, expected a different out came, but that's a good one.
Cheers RM |
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I think you should still alert him of the risks, not so much arising from our interst, but of the possibilities generally. He may be, like most people here, blissfully unaware of what can happen until it does. By then it is too late, as happens increasingly every day. I get alerted of this daily elsewhere as victims seek advice. I feel a RANT coming on ...... It is not a very nice 'public service' organisation we are talking about (and I continually bang on about, alone here and among many elsewhere). Their unstated aim is to collect penalties to supplement their own budget, often using their own incorrect version of Laws to cover their own inefficiency. They recoup unbelivably huge amounts this way. They do this by regularly maintaining their own incorrect interpretation of the Acts, misquoting the Law and even distorting it, to extract penalties and out of court settlements. Having often lost the argument in Court is ignored (sadly only Magistrates Courts that have no legal precedent). Appeals to Crown Court have never gone ahead. I know where they have withdrawn on the day sooner than allow a Judge to listen to the Appellant and make a ruling and thereby create a legally standing precedent. Most people just pay up on getting their letters, but still well over 60 cases are included in a day's Hearing Listings at local Magistrates Courts. If a Defendant turns up and looks and sounds confident they quickly 'withdraw' the case at the Courtroom door sooner than let the Magistrates hear the Defence's arguments ahead of having to rule on all the postal pleading and no-shows to be heard after. The underlying problem is the British trust and ability to be sleep-walked into anything, even paying wrongly. OVER ..... I feel better for that! Beer time (I am +4 hours!) |
Excellent, frothing rant, Tony!! You've earned your beer! beer
Have you ever considered becoming a columnist for the Mail? I have already emailed our friend - if/when I hear back from him I will tell him. |
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