Is Zemo Larsi border between Georgia and Russia open?
 

Hi, sorry for so many questions, but I'm running out of time and need info - hope somebody can help :)

I've been forced to choose a last minute route from Georgia to Uzbekistan, as 2 friends just have told me, the embassy in Baku dont issue transit visas for turkmenistan anymore :taz: (this is 1 week old information). I dont have time to get an Turmenistan visa before leaving home, so I'm thinking to get a russian visa and ride around the caspian sea. I would then head up to Astrakan and through Kazakhstan to Uzbekistan.

1. Can anyone confirm with recent experience, that the Zemo Larsi border between Georgia and Russia is open to foreigners now? (I am danish so question goes for EU citizens).
   
   
2. Does anyone think the current political situation with russia, might affect this border?
   
   
3. My visa agent says I need hotel bookings, before applying for a russian visa to cross chechnya and dagestan. To get around this, I could just propose another route, but will that be a problem when riding in Chechnya?
   
   
4. If anyone knows this area, could you please suggest a route color on the attached map. I know nothing about this area and will prefer riding fast good roads, as I dont have much time for this ride. Safety issues are also a concern..
   

If anyone is riding this road in early may and want company, please contact me.

Thanks a lot for any info :)
Michael

1. Not from personal experience, but this border has been open to EU nationals since mid 2011, many have crossed it. The border is called Kazbegi by the Georgians, and Verkhny Lars (Upper Lars) by the Russians... not sure how you got the Georgian version of the Russian border crossing.

2. While it is not possible to predict, the current situation has no bearing on Georgia, however Georgia must be watching very carefully.

3. Propose another route... always best just to say you are visiting Moscow and St P like a good tourist. Nothing is written on the Russian visa regards entry points or cities you may visit, I think this is a hangover from the USSR. No special permits are required to enter Ingushetia / Chechnya / Dagestan.

4. If you are concerned about safety, you'll want to stay out of Ingushetia and Dagestan, and take one of the more northerly routes via Budennovesk or Elista. It's a shame however as Ingushetia, Chechnya and Dagestan are some of the most interesting republics of Russia, and the city of Derbent in Dagestan is certainly the most interesting in the North Caucasus.

I only know the Vladikavkaz - Makhachkala and Khasavyurt - Atrtezian roads, both were OK. Maps of the region often mis-represent the main road between Makhachkala and Astrakhan - there is a left turn in Artezian which leads NW to Komsomolsk (for Lagan) and then to Yaskul, where one turns E to Astrakhan (or W to Elista). Roads are mostly pretty good, though sometimes not so smooth. In 2010 there were some roadworks on the Komsomolsk - Yaskul stretch.

The red route is the fast, good route. All asphalt. There is a long stretch without petrol stations before Elista, however. And it is extremely monotonous driving. The control post from Stavropol Krai into Kalmykia can be time consuming.

The blue route is much more interesting, but there is a slow, muddy, broken stretch in the marshlands before Astrakhan. You needn't worry much about safety, since you hardly enter Dagestan by taking the direct route through Kizliyar, The control posts into Ingushetia and from Chechnya into Dagestan (near Kizliyar) are a bit time consuming.

Thanks a lot guys !!!! Thats exactly the kind of infomation and personal experiences I was hoping for :) I will take local advise at the border, and if I get no warnings, I will take the blue route through Kizlyar. Otherwise the red..

WesleyDRZ400 - thanks for the photos. Looks lovely :)

danielsprague - thanks for the visa application hints :)

Travelbug - a few question please?
1. "..there is a slow, muddy, broken stretch in the marshlands before Astrakhan." - How long and bad is this stretch? Will I be able to ride the 800+ km from Tbilisi to Astrakhan in 2 or 3 days easily?

2. In another post, you write: "This may be of importance for overlanders who intend to cross the border between Russia and Azerbaijan - which is now open." - Very interesting!!! That would be even easier for me, as I need to go to Baku to get visas. Do you think this route is safe enough? And how bad are road conditions along the caspian sea?

Any suggestions for places to stay along the way (blue route) in the cheaper end will be appreciated also. Recommendations for a good cheap hotel in Grtozny, Kizlyar, Lagan or Astrakhan maybe?

Again, thanks a lot!! Its amazing how helpful people on this forum are!!
Happy travels to you all :)

reg. 1. We were on that bad road at night, some 3 years ago, so don't remember well. Maybe 100km. Not a problem, but slows you down ... and provides for some adventure feeling. :thumbup1:
Recommend
Day 1: Tbilisi to Grozny (Hotel Arena City) 3,5 hours + border time
Day 2: Grozny to Astrakhan (several hotels) ca. 8 hours

reg. 2. My Austrian travel buddy reported very good roads on the Caspian Sea between Machackala and Baku. The border is open. Safety in Dagestan is an issue. But IMHO it is not a problem if you transit during the day.

Hey Wesley, thanks a lot for thinking of my situation :)
But its too late now - I've ordered my Russian visa and are going that way round the caspian sea. After your recommendations and info, I'm looking forward to ride a lot, instead of spending time waiting for a ferry...

Travelbug - thanks for the hotel recommendations! Will look for them when there :)

4 weeks countdown now - yippeeeeeeee!!!

Thanks again Wesley :) And yes, I will take local advise when there!!
I will be crossing into Tajikistan 26 may and probably arrive in Dushanbe a day later..
Thanks for the links also :)

I will update this thread after I've crossed and add whatever info I find..

Hi again, sorry for all my questions :)
You wouldnt know a hotel in Derbent or Makhatjkala you could recommend? I think I will go through Dagestan, but it would be nice to have a more or less safe place to rest along the way..

Still a lot of problems in Dagestan: Caucasian Knot | On March 17-23, seven persons fell victim to armed conflict in Northern Caucasus

Thanks again guys :)
Michael

Hi Michael,

Hope the travels went well- is there any chance you could post some info on your Georgia - Russia - Kazakhstan journey and which route you took in the end.

We're planning to cross this region in April on a transit visa and any advice would be greatly appreciated :-)

Many Thanks in advance
Emma

One source of info for that region from last year ..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQVQlagR_Fw

Hi, I did the green route om my map in first post. Borders were easy, roads good, no checkpoints.. Plenty of hotels in the cities. Did it in 5 days, but could be done in 4. Elista was nice - maybe take a restday there if you can.
The loooong and sometimes bad roads start when you cross into KAZ and UZ.
Hope that helps :)

Thanks a lot for this very useful thread!

But I have some question about the road between Vladikavkaz and Tbilissi:

I'm planning coming back from Central Asia with my 4x4 next October and I need to know what can I do if I can't take this road due to weather conditions (too much snow,landslide or other):
Is it possible to try to enter in Georgia from Russia through Azerbaidjian with my car (in this case is it necessary to have the visa in advance?) or through Abkhazie (But I think it's forbidden)?
Other solution?
My plan is to be in Vladikavkaz around October 15th.

RR.

Hi, as far as I know this road is open all year and I was there in october and there was no snow. Shouldnt be a problem. Maybe have a few spare days if there is temporary snow.. The georgian side is stunningly beautiful!

Abkhazie is a big NO GO!! Georgia will probably arrest you for entering the country without visa (= entering Abkhazie without georgian visa).

For the route through AZ, theres info in other threads on this forum..

Cheers

Thanks Michael.

This is not quite true. EU citizens do not need a visa to go to Georgia, ergo you will not be arrested by Georgian authorities for having been in Abkhazia without a visa. The Georgians claim it is their territory and so in their eyes, if you dont need a visa for Georgia you dont need one for Abkhazia.

However, the Georgian border staff do not control the Russia - Abkhazia border. Therefore you cannot get a Georgian entry stamp at that border. You get an Abkhaz entry stamp, which the Georgian authorities don't recognise. Ergo the problem is that if you travel from Russia to Abkhazia to Georgia, the Georgians could potentially arrest you for having no legitimate entry stamp into Georgia (as opposed to being there without a visa). The border between Georgia and Abkhazia is not a border to the Georgians ... its just an "internal checkpoint". You will be stopped at that checkpoint and you will need to present proof you entered what the Georgians define as "Georgia" legitimately. Without such proof you will not be permitted to continue on into Georgia proper.

This is reflected in the fact that you CAN enter Abkhazia from Georgia and continue on to Russia. You will not have a Georgian exit stamp of course, but you also will not be within reach of the Georgian authorities. This may potentially be a problem if you ever re-enter Georgia using the same passport. You do need a pre visa approval from the Abkhazians to enter, and you also need an onward Russian visa.

You cant enter Georgia via Abkhazie from Russia as Georgia considers it there land which is illegally occupied so if you did some how manager to cross from Russia to Abkhazie then into Georgian at the Georgian checkpoint you would be arrested for illegally entering Georgia and heavily fined so that's that out the question

Even if you enter Abkhazie via Russian then head back into Russia and cross into Georgia via Russia North Ossetia you will have problems, there was a sign stating this in 2013 at the Georgian border, i think the fine was $1000

You can sometimes which i would not 100% rely on enter Abkhazie via Georgia then once in Abkhazie depending if you have a Russian visa cross into Russia but you would need to apply for an Abkhazian and Russian visa before hand and it is also up to the discretion of the Georgian border guards.

After entering Abkhazie if the guards let you cross you can go back to Georgia (if you did not enter Russia and then back into Abkhazie) but will be questions about your trip to Abkhazie by the Georgians however the fact you have a Georgian entry visa and no exit you should be fine after a few questions

My info on this was from the former Georgian ambassador of the Georgian embassy in London who i sat next to on a flight to Georgia a few months ago

You can enter Georgia from the Russian Republic of Dagestan then into Azerbaijan then to Georgia. You would need to apply for a Russian visa & Azerbaijan visa before hand.

For October and the fact you have a 4x4 you should be fine with regards to the weather condition i would 99% guarantee it:thumbup1:

However as for land slides they just had a major landslide last year which is not a frequent event so you would think the area that gave way has given way so another landslide would not be as likely this winter so i would also say on October in a 4x4 with the correct Russian visa you would cross the Zemo Larsi border between Russia and Georgia with no problems

I take if you are from Western Europe so another route if for some reason both the Georgian to Russian border and also the Russian to Azerbajian then to Georgia border are both closed which i highly doubt it ?!?!?! just cross from Russia into Ukraine, North of the Kharkiv border which is not currently effected by the current conflict in the East of the country and then head West

Thanks a lot for all these replies,

Another question:

Coming back from Kazakhstan and going to Georgia, when I have to apply for my Russian visa I have to give some towns on my road across Russia.
I think to give Astrakhan, Elista and Vladikavkaz.
Do you think there is any problem to write these towns' names on my visa's application?
(Astrakhan and Vladikavkaz are into borders' areas).
RR.