Tuva track, and Altay
 

Hi

I've read Colebatch description of this adventurous track and I am planning to try it.
My idea is to do it the other way around - from Kyzil to Kosh Agach.
I know I would need some kind of border zone permit to do this, but I will try without one.
What´s the worst case scenario?

I can´t find any routes to the Altay region coming from east, south of Abakan, so I guess I would have to go back all the way almost to the m53, to get to Altay.
There's a railtrack from Abakan to Novokuznetsk, would that be an option? Kind of BAM road thing?

On another subject:
Going east of the Chuysky Trakt, to Ust-Kan, do one as to go north, or would it would be possible to go east naer the border to the Shemonaika border. On google/osm it seems possible...



Cheers

Update: there is a track from Abakan to the Altai ... the routing is thus:

Abakan - Askiz - Vershina Tey - Mezhdurechensk - Novokuznetsk - Tashtagol - Turochak - Gorno Altaisk

Tuva Track
 

Yes, I plan on the same thing . . . on a KTM 950 Adventure.

Colebatch you made that piece seem especially compelling, thank you.

BTW, the "bridge" on the Tuva track that you had a bit of notable difficulty finding - is it the one here ?

Kurt

Yep, thats it ... Thats the bridge ... save it on your GPS and aim for it when you are in the area.

By the way, great choice guys ... this is one of the most beautiful and unique areas you will ever see. Take lots of photos and make sure I get to see them :)

Here's a couple to whet your appetite for Tuva

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3332/...f5d4ac56_o.jpg

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3359/3...efffbb91_o.jpg

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3546/3...02574c7d_o.jpg

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3589/3...6f0c0d0b_o.jpg

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3548/3...f2eacbb8_o.jpg

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3344/3...6d661a01_o.jpg

Thanks Colebatch!!
Sorry for my late reply, I am already on the (off) road...

I tried a shakedown on Albanian tracks to see if I can make it in the East... it's been great..., even on a "heavy bike".
Albania Rocks,
great tracks, Great Country

Anyway, thanks for your advices!
I'll study it and maybe I'll get to you again during this trip.


Cheers

If you are caught in a border zone without a permit:

-5000 Rouble fine
-Deportation from Russia within 10 days
-5 year ban from entering Russia.

I don't advise it. I speak from (very) near experience of the above.

The track from Kosh Agach to Khandagayty is epic, though the people on the Tuvan side could at best be described as hostile. The worst people I have ever met. Even other Tuvans are scared of the area.

The border permit is quite easy to get in Kosh Agach - the snag is you need to be registered there. I, with a Russian friend, registered myself in Kosh Agach at the PVS office in Gorno-Altaisk. The other way to do it is to get the guesthouse manager in Kosh Agach to register you.

Good luck!

Daniel

Actually, Colebatch and I never got a written permit. :whistling:

We were stopped by a Border Guard on the road south of Kosh-Agach just where we intended turning left. He wanted to see Mongolia Visas to justify our continuing along the main road south. C showed his and waffled beautifully - knowing I didn't have one, never intending to go there!
He let us go and a Km or two down the road we cut across country to pick up our intended route!

The off duty border guards in Murg-Aksi, once they had become friendly, directed us to the garrison about 20km west of Murg-Aksi. We intrioduced ourselves to the Commandant who, after sharing tea and biscuits, said we could proceed as long as we remained on the road (now there was one).

We never had a written permit - just verbal consent for half.
(I hope no-one links this post with my RUS Residency Permit application that has been accepted and currently being processed !!!)

Looks a bit light for a 12 ton Unimog camper. But the creek is probably fordable.

Charlie

Endemic alcoholism.

Pretty much my thoughts too ...

Stunningly beautiful. Challenging roads, and yes the people ... they have a reputation for hostility, and while we werent threatened in any way while we were there, there wasnt the usual openness and friendliness we saw everywhere else in Russia.

I do recall noting while I was there that pretty much every single male was drunk ... at all times .... 10am, 4pm, 11pm.

No worries.
No Country's exchequer or its peoples were denied anything by any fraudulent use.
No attempted boosting of personal gain from any deliberate illegal fraud was being adverted/promoted through HU.
Not on topic!

Tuva Track
 

Hi,

Well, I'm determined to get this thread back on topic . . .

What if you're coming FROM Krasnoyarsk (the East) . . . where is the border permit acquired in that case.

Frankly, the ride sounds so good I think I'd be willing to make it a loop if the eastern entrance isn't possible.

Thanks in advance,

Kurt

Kurt, Hi.
Agreed, no problem here!

From Krasnoyarsk you would be taking the opposite route to our own, following the M54 to Kizil then turn right to Chadan and there south to the Trakt turnoff which was (if I recall corrctly) is opposite a blue painted building.

Somewhere there will be a large Borderland signs in Cyrillic (I can't remember the wording/name - young Colebatch will assist my failing memory!). From there on you can only, in theory, continue along the main road to the border and should have a visa to support being there.
Any deviation requires a permit (or unofficially, as in our case, verbal permission of the Commandant responsible for enforcing it).

A few shallow river crossings, otherwise good gravel or tracks to Murg Aksei. After that no gravel - just grass or earth/mud if wet, Some rougher river crossings and makeshift bridges and, if you want to go via the Khindikhtig Khol lake, quite a bit of riding over trackless heather type covered hills with snow melt bogs beneath.

I must say this was the first area of my part of SibEx and later events over the ensuing months have tended to eclipse the wonder and beauty of this area in my memory. This and the other revived thread (plus a local ex-pat forum here in MOS) have all, this week, reminded me of it and the absolutely haunting lonely beauty and space of the area.

I'm almost on my way.....

hey Kurt ... 2nd post in the thread, 2nd paragraph :) ... I dont know exactly where the border zone starts or exactly where there will be a pogranichniki office. I am guessing there will be an office either in Chadan, or in Khandagayty (about 5km after the border road turn off).

There will definately be a border (pogranichniki) office in Khandagayty because its the main crossing between Tuva and Mongolia there (for locals only). But there will be an office there and you will be able to get a permit there. The only question is does the border zone begin before then ... in which case I would also stop in Chadan on the way and ask around town if there is a pogranichniki office there. If there isnt, the locals cops at Chadan will either ignore you or direct you to Khandagayty.

PS... please get me a waypoint for the pogranichniki office on that eastern side of the track :)

Hello everybody

we are going to go the summer of 2013 in Altai and Tuva Track.

from Ak-Dovurak there are 2 possibilities to go to Krasnoyarsk:
1 - directly north via A161 road to Abakan and then M54
2 - to Kyzyl and then up on M54.
Do you have any recommendations? (regarding the picturesque of the landscape)

and

Any updates from other people on Tuva in 2012?

Bob

Hi

we've been last year in Altay and Tuva, also along the Tuva track. We've managed to do the red tape for both regions. We went back from Kyzyl over the M54. There are stretches, where you can take the now unused old highway, I would recomend that, but we haven't been on the other road to Tuva over Ak Dovurak. You can see our (german) travel report here .
I posted an update about track and permit on thorntree last july, but it is not available for the moment.

Christian

PS on M54 the Ergaki mountains are the main sight, unfortunately we had rain and therefore no sight

Hi Bob

as the permit information is not available at the moment on thorntree, I'll try a short version.
But our way of getting the permits is not a guarantee that others will get them too.
You need two border permits, one for Tuva and one for Altai.
When we booked the flight march last year, we thought we could get them via agencies, but after contacting various agencies the answer was negative. Whether they did not answer or they wanted to provide a whole guided tour or they had no idea (but at least answered). Most people told, it is only possible (if it would be possible at all) to do by a guided tour (I met in Altai a tour operator who did it on his own but was sceptical, that western tourists could get both permits).
So in the end we thought we would have to do it without permit, but my girlfriend wasn't happy about it. So she did some google and went over the FSB page (with google translator) and found a way to appy for the permit.
You can download from their site a form for the application. I think the important point is, that there are several forms, one form for group voyage and also a form for individiual travellers. Perhaps (own speculation) the group permit is only possible with a guided tour. So we took the individual form, wrote with cyrillic letters on the computer our trip and passport data on it and now had to find an adress to send it (we printed it, made our signature and scanned it then).
There is an adress for the Altai, where you can mail the application pugornyjaltaj@mail.ru (even two, as Ust-Koksa has also a border guard headquater pugornyjaltaj_u-koksa04@mail.ru). Just a day before doing the permit application, I realized some photos of the Ukok region and saw it would be quite an interesting side trip, therefore we added this region on our application. We also mailed it to a tuvan mail adress, but got a mailer daimon reply. Therefore we just wrote a mail to the fsb-main mail-adress.
We got no reply and therefore were not sure if the way was right.
You have to apply at least 2 months before your journey. So after several weeks we wrote another mail to the adresses and asked where to get the permit and magically from Aktash came a short answer, that we would get it there (btw the permit is without charge).
Tuva did not reply and therefore we had no idea where to pick it up (in Kyzyl??).
When we came to Altai we did the registration at the lady indicated by LP (her agency is aguana, the lady seemed surprised that we could organize the permit ourselves but told us, she could have done it also for us). It was no problem, even on a day where OVIR is usually closed. She also phoned to Aktash and we got the confirmation, that our permits were lying there. The registration is good to have, as you have a sheet of paper with a stamp. On Ukok a mobile control also looked at it and we had written on the registration that we would be in the Ukok-region (Belashy).
We were in Aktash on a Sunday but the border guards had open and we could get the permit easily. We used itwith the mobile control and at the exit of the zone, where is a permanent post (we entered pathless over Elangash). We could also show the permit at exit of Kosh-Agatsch, but had no Tuva permit.
We continued to Mugur Aksi (I lost my tracks and waypoints just at the Tuvan frontier, but we managed to come through with the russian maps, only after the lake we therefore took the old trails). Before Mugur-Aksi we had some bad midnight experience (someone wanted to steal our bikes and as we had an alarm that turned on he was inhibited, but 10 minutes later just fired a shot from nearby - we also had kind of this experience in Altay a year before when at midnight some hunters thought they saw some deer just behind our tent, after the shots you usually get not much sleep).
We knew from Colebatch's report, that after Mugur Aksi there will be a border guard post but hoped, that it might be deserted as described by other tourists. But when we came there, a car was just turned back at the "Schlagbaum". So when we got there, the guards just led us to their headquater and told something like, you are here for the permit? So I thought we could do it on the spot, as we had no tuvan permit. They were searching for some formulaires and I was also searching for the form I had handed in to central FSB. But magically after some minutes they found two papers with stamps on it, that were issued on our names, just some days ago. That was really a great moment, as we couldn't imagine how good the russian bureaucracy works (mail to central fsb results in a correct permit, to be picked up at some totally isolated border post at the mongolian frontier, I think they guessed from our given itinerary where we would enter the permit region in Tuva). We later were only controlled once, just very short before the tarmac (a white jeep with some officials wanted to see the permit, but perhaps on a motor bike you would be too fast, so he might not have the time to stop you).
We could have continued along the frontier (when you give the correct districts), but thought it would be better to get an idea of the tuvan mainland (Chadan-Kyzyl) and as we knew already this mongolian style landscape from last year.

I hope this description helps a bit. Just when we rode the track another tourist did it on taxis but without permit. But at least for Ukok I think you should have a permit. Altay permits seem to be given often, our number was in the 7XX, while our tuvan permit had a single digit number.

Christian

Hello Chris and thanks for the info.

I will do some more research. I spoke to some Russians and they told me they got the Ukok permit in half an hour before closing time in Kosh-Agash and that the guys there at the office were very friendly.

I don't know if they will be like this with foreigners also. If I find out some news I will post here.

Bob (Cristian)

I was at the Kosh Agach office last year and asked about getting a permit at short notice.

They said no problem if I was Russian. But as a foreigner it takes a couple of months and you have to email them.

the form to be completed
 

Hi,

we made a phone call to fsb office in Russia. they said we need to email and fax the following form

http://ps.fsb.ru/law/generaldoc/more...%40fsbNpa.html

we sent this by email to fsb@tuva.ro, altay@fsb.ru; after some days we tried to call their offices (telephone nrs from fsb page). From Altai no answer. From Tuva they said they would verify the papers and after that they would mail us...

we also sent this form by fax and by email Chris wrote up here: pugornyjaltaj@mail.ru

We will try to call Altai again these days to ask if the papers are ok.

ps: if anyone needs the form in doc, just pm me and I'll send a copy by email

edit 21 June: after a lot of phone calls, we found out that we should email for Tuva at pu.tuva@fsb.ru too. After we sent to this email once again that documents, we received an answer and they told it would take 2 months for the answer.. we replied that we don't have this time (we sent the first email at beginning of May).
After a long time we had an answer from Altay, they said that our documents are in processing, and to call them short time before coming there to this nr: 8388 46 23 654 /51 ext 15

edit 6 November 2013:
We came from Krasnoyarsk to Kyzyl. When we arrived to Kyzyl we went to the border office (N51 43.053 E94 28.526). Because we didn't send the mail to the right address from the beginning, they said our permit would be available after about 2 weeks... We explained them that we took the address from the russian fsb site, etc... After some discussions, they told us to come in the afternoon. We were lucky, they helped us. We were asked for this permits in Mugur Aksy by a Russian police officer.

so remember, if you need Tuva permit, this is the right email address: pu.tuva@fsb.ru

For Altay, we went to the border office in Kosh Agash (N49 58.021 E88 38.119, on a Sunday). The man at the gates asked our names and took my telephone nr and told us to go back to the hotel. We received a telephone later telling us to go to Ak Tash for the permits (I'm not sure if we understood well why we had to go there, because we weren't Russians or because some technical problems with the fax).
In Ak Tash the office (N50 18.691 E87 35.682) is closed on Sundays, so we went there the next day.

Regards,
Cristian

I would try going North via A161 - just for something different. I dont know of anyone who has been Ak Dovurak - Abaza on a moto and I need some waypoints for my collection ;)

Just stumbled on a curious and useful piece of info that may allow people to potentially do both Tuva AND Mongolia in one trip.

Хандагайты (Боршо) | Красноярский филиал | Филиалы ФГКУ Росгранстрой | Филиалы | ФГКУ Росгранстрой

A Russian border information page, states that the Khandagayty crossing from Tuva to Mongolia will be made into an international crossing. When that is I dont know, but I anyone checks the site and sees a change in the status to Multilateral, please post here.

Anyone doing the Tuva track this year, when you start / come out near Khandagayty, can you check with the guys at the border (a) if it is open for foreigners or (b) when it will be open to foreigners?

Well, here is an update from this year:

Send in an application to the Altai email address and they replied back that they received the application.

Same with the Tuva address and they replied back the same. Next day they asked to be faxed a copy of the passport. The fax number they emailed didn't work.

I asked my visa lady to call them and they now wanted a copy of the visa as well. They did all that and insisted I have to pick up the permit in Kyzyl, which is no good for me, as I'll go the other way.

We called the Altai office as well. Non of the listed numbers are good, we got referred to +7 388 22 48200. They said they got the application all is well and they don't need anything else. Permit can be picked up in Gorno Altaisk, although we asked Kosh Agash.

Just hoping for the best. Intend to call a few more times. Who knows how this will work out. My plans are kind of in disarray anyway, with the Pamir closed right now.

[QUOTE=bob66;423051]Hi,

we made a phone call to fsb office in Russia. they said we need to email and fax the following form

[url=http://ps.fsb.ru/law/generaldoc/more.htm%21id%3D10320874%40fsbNpa.html]

Very interesting and helpful explanation! Thanks for that!! But one question more: where you found the e-mail adresses from the border divisions?? The linked FSB site only shows me telephone numbers.

I plan to pass Mondy in Eastern Sayan this autumn (from Slyudyanka westward) which is border zone too. To apply the border permit I would need an e-mail of the border division in Buryatia.

Quick update: My permit was ready after two months. I made no further phone calls, just rolled up to the local FSB office in Gorno-Altaisk. Didn't have to go inside (heavy security procedures). Instead a nice chap came out with the papers. Just ask for the "Propusk" and show them your application. They'll know.

Hi, to complete the topic, here some additional informations how I got the permits:

I planned a two month bike/boat trip along the mongolian border from Buryatia over Tuva to Altay, so I needed three border permits for each republic. After some days I posted my question I found this site which is better structured than the ps.fsb.ru...

here you can download the forms to apply a border permit (for individual travels form no. 2):
Подробно :: Федеральная Служба Безопасности

and here is a list of the e-mail adresses:
Подробно :: Федеральная Служба Безопасности

At june 30. I sent the fullfilled, subscribed and scanned forms (as pdf and jpeg) to the border divisions of Buryatia, Tuva and Altay. Buryatia replied fast within some hours, Tuva after some days, Altay did not sent any reply (maybe the restriction of the border zone I planned to cross - Tuva track, Argut valley, Ust-Koksa/Ust-Khan - was relaxed.. a man from Gorno-Altajsk told me this about Ust-Khan in october). Buryatia and Tuva everytime sent confirmations of receipt, Tuva wanted to have a copy of passport too.

Because I started my travel at august 20. in Irkutsk, I was not sure if I can get the first permit for Buryatia before I reach the border zone, because the 60 days of processing would end around august 30. So in Mondy (the border administration of Ulan-Ude promised to send the permit there) I passed the check point without any comment that I applied the permit. They let me go, only assured, that I don't want go to the mongolian border... Later I saw in my e-mails that the permit was ready at that moment, but I and also the border guards at the check point didn't know this...

When I reached Kyzyl in end of september the 60 days of processing were long over, so I tried to get the permit from the administration in Kyzyl (they sent me the adress by e-mail at september 12.). This was not a nice experience, because they asked a lot of questions, they really grilled me like STASI of GDR... I guess they searched a problem, and they found one: I was travelling as a "tourist" but I had a business visa - that means violation of Russian rights and a punishment of 2000 RUB (luckily, because that was the minimum punishment!). One day later they released me and handed out the permit - I was able to continue my travel and went to Handagayti via Hovu-Aksy over Tannu mountain range. I was controlled there only two times on the road, between Handagayti and Mugur-Aksy no control (the check point which colebatch marked on his track was unmanned).

When I went the Tuva Track from Mugur-Aksy along lake Khindiktig to Kosh-Agach in october, the winter starts with snow and temps down to -20 degree. The section along lake Khindiktig was unused at that time and I had to make my own lane in 10-20cm snow.. The main connection was via Kyzyl-Khaja (like bob66 gone), from there few cars went to Kosh-Agach.

Because I was late, I only continued along the main road M52 to Bijsk and Novosibirsk. No more border zones, no more controls, the Altay permit was not necessary.

Greets,
Richard

Follow up to this post ... it seems the Khandagayty border and the Mondy border (north of Khovsgul) have both been made Multilateral (open to foreigners) in 2014.

Thanks for the update Mr Colebatch :thumbup1:

I'm preparing for some border permits for this year's trip (specifically Dagestan and Ingushetia but the procedure is the same). It asks for the name / details of the inviting party and I'm wondering what to do...

- leave it blank?
- use the details of the inviting agency for my visa?
- ask a local friend if they will help (I have friends in both regions, but I am hesitant to ask given the relations with the FSB there...)

Cheers

EO

Good News Walter!

I ran into some cyclists and they wanted to cross that border. Wonder how they got on last summer. It would be funny if the border was open all along. Can't say I would feel bad though. Had a fantastic trip on your tracks as it was.

Opens up new route options for this year :-)


Have the forms changed? I don't remember filling this in. The Tuva FSB did ask for the visa details after I submitted the form, but we just called them and told them I didn't have the visa yet, which seemed to be OK. The Altai FSB did ask for it and it worked out great.

Cheers,
boarder

The form is not asking for visa details, but for an inviting person / organisation.

Mondy and Khandagaity were certainly bilateral only in 2008.

EO

We've just tried Borshoo/Khandagayty and been turned away, so no, it's definitely not open for non-Russians or Mongols. :thumbdown:

Laurent

Altaï border permit update
 

(TL;DR : we failed to get the permit with the instructions in this thread)

We intended to drive from Altaï to Tuva so we followed the above instructions. We sent emails with forms to both FSB (Altaï and Tuva) and only got replies from the Tuva side. We tried to contact the Altai FSB office by phone when in Russia, through a Russian, but the phone number was wrong. They got another number from which they said they would call back (they didn't). So we tried to show up at the Gorno-Altaysk office, but failed to find it. So we ended up at the FSB compound in Kosh-Agach, which is easy to find as it's one massive and new compound.

There, after much waiting because of our lack of knowledge of Russian, we were finally ushered in to their office, where they told us they hadn't received our application. Much to our surprise, once passed the entry gate sentry, they were very kind and keen to help us, they even went through the compound to find the only guy who could speak a few words of English (with Google translate helping).

We showed the recipient address (altay@fsb.ru) and they said it's wrong. Ok, so we started to copy another address from a poster hanging on the wall, but they said no, it's also wrong. We asked for the correct address for the next ones, so a lady left running through the offices and came back much later, panting, with a piece of paper. Then they spent another few minutes trying to type the e-mail address with laying characters, which they hardly understand. This is the address they gave us (the last version) :

pu.gornyjaltaj@mail.ru

I still have my doubts, "pu" might be "ru", etc.. I haven't tried it. Anyway, we asked if it was possible to get the permit on the spot. The guy said maybe, come back later, and then it wasn't possible. They told us that it takes 20 days (not 60) to clear a permit for foreigners. So went ahead and with their help, we filled out the permits, meaning to drive to Tuva in a month when we would cross here again back from Mongolia.

One month later, we showed up at the FSB in Kosh-Agach, met Vitaly, the English speaker, who was visibly a little embarrassed that we actually came back. He left for a few minutes before coming back and telling us that the guy processing the permits has beed run down by a car and was dead.. ! (sounds like the dog ate my homework to me, they probably threw the forms in the bin).

Bottom line : it's not that easy, but if you speak Russian I bet it's much easier. Also, it seemed the permits are processed in Gorno-Altaysk, so it would be more useful to show at their office (maybe somebody can give the coordinates ?).

Maybe others can fill in with more helpful details.

Cheers,
Laurent

PS: another catch : they were reluctant to give us a permit, because we told them we intended to go to Kyzyl and would then enter Tuva on a border zone without a permit for Tuva, and that is forbidden. We told them a permit awaits us in Tuva, but they didn't care. We tried to explain that the permit could have been sent there at the checkpoint, or that at the checkpoint they could call Kyzyl and asked for permission, but they couldn't care less. We would be "breaking the law" as they said. So that didn't help.

whew, thanks for the detailed write-up. Tuva is still on my list...

Sorry to hear about your problems.

The Gorno-Altaysk FSB office is maybe just 100m from where Google Maps says it is. Very easy to find and I'd say most locals would point you when asked for "FSB". The address is also on the FSB web site (along with phone numbers and email addresses). It's a large new building with top security and lots of satellite dishes. It's this building:

https://www.google.com/maps/search/F...55!2d51.942186

I was told by email and on the phone that I could not get the permit in Kosh-Agash, they insisted on Gorno-Altaysk, which was a detour for for me.

The border permit I got included Tuva! Infact I was told by them that this is the only way to do, which makes sense. You have to get a permit for the whole area before you enter it. I was checked both ways and on the Ukok and the permit was fine.

They were surprisingly friendly too. I pointed out that they missed an area I had requested and they added that on the spot.


Cheers,
Steffen

Hi

we got our permit 3 years ago in Aktash and used the adress pugornyjaltaj@mail.ru as stated in an old post. If that adress is still valid, or you have to use the adress with an additional point (pu.gornyjaltaj@mail.ru), you have to try.

Fine that the permit is now processed faster, in our case at least for the Tuvan permit, it had a processing time of almost 60 days, as can be followed by the date you applied and the date of the stamp on the permit.

We were this year also in pogranzona, but in Mongolia in the NP Tavan Bogd. Permit processing in Olgii is possible within one day, but still some open questions (especially if you need a guide or not).

Kind regards

Christian

Hello,

i'm considering doing the Tuva track in July 2016.

Has anybody ride it in 2015 and has some recent info on the area?

How are the roads?
The section between kosh agach and Mugur Aksy (190 km)can be done in one day?

Any info, track, gps point, beside the ones in Walter file and OSM, would be great.

On the other hand, if I fail to get the permit in Gorno Altaysk, has anybody tried to cross to Abaza on any of these roads:
https://goo.gl/maps/R3rgPom5ySQ2

Thank you,
Adrian

If all goes to plan we will be around that area (part of Tuva track) next July at some point. I will apply for my Business visa end of Feb then apply for the Border permit (valid one year).


Looking at your map, we rode last year from the shore of lake Teletskoye (Artybash) back to Gorno-Altaysk on the P375. The road was asphalt and in very good condition all the way.
Beyond that, where the road split going either north or west toward Gorno, I don't know.


Maybe see you on the road.

Hi,

I also took in 2012 the road from lake Teletskoye (Artybash) back to Gorno-Altaysk on the P375. Was good.

Could you please keep me posted on the dealing with the Tuva/altai permit? Especially if you have some other info then the one here.

Plan to be there around 7th of July.

see you on the road,
Adrian

Hi Adrian

A friend of mine has taken a slightly more northerly route, which I believe parallels the railway line between Novokuznetsk and Aksiz. You can see an account of it here:

Offroad: Altai - Khakassia Track - Tuva - Gentleman Adventurer

I've never heard of the more southerly track of the routes you have posted (leaving from near Teletskoye), though that doesn't mean it's not possible.

Kosh Agach to Mugur Aksy is doable in a day. But Mugur Aksy is not the sort of place you want to hang around; people in the area are famously drunk and aggressive (had rocks thrown at me nearby).

If you're taking the northern route into Khakassia, don't miss the amazing Scythian temple at Salbyk.

EO

Thanks for the info. Depending on the time and weather I will try one of the routes there.

What are your plans for this year?

Adrian

If you're taking the northern route into Khakassia, don't miss the amazing Scythian temple at Salbyk.

EO[/QUOTE]

Altai Permit
 

I'll be transiting from Abakhan to Tashanta, to UB, and likely on to Irkutsk this summer Mid-july-mid August. Using the great info in this thread, I submitted all the paperwork. Tuva looks like it will be fine, we will pick the permits up in Kyzyl. The only weird one is the permit for Altai. I requested to pick up the permit in Mugur Aksy, but they said they can't do that because it's Mugur Aksy is in Tuva and outside of their jurisdiction. They said we would have to pick up the permit in Kosh Agach which is essentially after we transit the border area, if that makes sense. Not sure if it will be a problem, I guess we will have to hope we aren't stopped. Any suggestions?

I am getting my border permit sorted via a travel agency. Not sure how far that will go. They charge 500 roubles per permit. I think!


The travel agency was recommended to me by my Visa Agency as they could not help for that.


The travel agency's details are below.


I am not 100% sure what I will get and if this covers Tuva as well as Altai.... Things seem to get lost in translation as my Russian is too basic and their English is Google!


I will keep you posted as we will get there some time late July. If we get the permits, it would be great, if not, it won't be the end of the world.


website: www.tur-aguna.ru


email: touraguna@mail.ru


address: in Gorno-Altaisk:
Адрес: рес.Алтай, г.Горно-Алтайск, пр. Кммунистический, 68, оф.322,
тел./факс: 8(38822)4-74-61, 8 (913) 999-00-52

any news about the border crossing?
i want to ride in the tuva-region on my way back from UB...

according to this side:
http://www.infomongolia.com/ct/ci/22...trol and Ports
its open

this side says, it's also closed:
http://caravanistan.com/border-crossings/mongolia/

It's NOT open to foreigners. You may be able to cross Mongolia to Russia, but definitely not the other way. We got turned back in 2015 and had to postpone the Mongolia leg of our trip because of it.

This is the Altai FSB email that worked for us: pugornyjaltaj@mail.ru. They took about 3-5 days to respond.

Ha, here we go, finally. So what did they answer..?

Reach Tyungur from M52 (P256)
 

Another Altai-Tuva interested. Anyone knows if it´s posible reach Tyungur following the P373, that goes parallel to Katun River? It seems that it is a trekking track in some sections.
At G. Maps and G. Earth, this P373 cross Katun River by the nonexistent bridge.
Last year we camped between Chuya River and Katun River, there was two new bridges over them, probably the new road goes to Inegen, but don´t know if it is posible continue to Tyungur.

See you off (or on) the road.

https://vk.com/mirvam22?z=photo25164...photos25164154Hi all travelers! I - Moto traveler. I would be very happy to chat with you if you are going to Altai! Especially because for sure your path will be through the city of Barnaul. I could make the Tire mounting, balancing, editing motorcycle wheels! And make you drink tea or coffee!)

I am at the address: Chelyuskintsev street 1 B (Челюскинцев 1 Б), Barnaul, Altai Krai, Russia (Autocomplex "Барнаульский") I'm waiting for you to visit!

Thanks a lot, Motobarnaul. Do you have information about that P373 parallel to Katun River?

Hi Batelumes, the section between Inegen and Tyungur seems to be still a trekking track, until 2014 there was no road, the bridge over Katun was destroyed in same year after high waters in the spring. A rebuild bridge not means, that there is a road connection to Tyungur, I don't believe, but I also don't know what could happen in that two years...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLzjawIzyIE

on my super tenere there is nothing to do.

Its more of a push bike track than a road. Definitely not a thru road ... and from Ust Kan to Inegen, you are in a border zone and will need a border permit. OSM is correct ... from Tyungur to Inegen is a walking / cycling track. Cyclists have got thru and some Russian off road bikers on light bikes. Pic below is at N50.2456 E86.6842 which is as far as it is easy to get coming from the Inya / Inegen end.

https://c7.staticflickr.com/8/7252/7...2fecdfa2_b.jpg

Here is video from some russian bikers doing it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzo5MoGHgOE

Road conditions
 

As a general comment, there are a number of very useful tools out there for establishing the condition of a road or track or apparent road. www.Panoramio.com is perhaps the most useful. Find the road / location on panoramio, (move the map around, zoom in etc) and see for yourself what it is like.

Panoramio - Photo of Danger narrow trope over river

Panoramio - Photo of Not a perfect road for biking... (to SW)

for example

Thanks to all for your responses.

At the moment, I am waiting for the permit for Tuva and Altai.

Panoramio and Google Earth-Maps are the most useful tools for searching and planning rutes, after your Northern Asia Waypoints, I have to say, Colebatch. But experience tell me that pictures or aerial images are not always reliable, that is the only reason to ask my question. Russian bikers video is very clarifier...:thumbup1:

So we applied for a Tuva and Altai permit using the directions found here (the email addresses are pu.tuva@fsb.ru and pugornyjaltaj@mail.ru). There were two problems. First, an Altai permit is needed from roughly the lake to Kosh Agach and we were traveling from Kyzyl towards Kosh Agach. The Altai border patrol/FSB office told us that we had to pick up the permit in Kosh Agach. Obviously by the time we reached Kosh Agach a permit would no longer be necessary. The office never responded to my requests, by email, for the permit to be faxed or mailed to the Kyzyl office. Second problem was that the first question on the form (Прошу выдать индивидуальный пропуск для въезда (прохода) в пограничную зону) I thought was "where are you entering the border area?" instead it is "where do you intend to go in the border area". I put down Khandagayty because that's where we were entering the Tuva stretch of the border area. When we went to pick up the permit the border patrol officer asked me where we were going after Khandagayty. I described the route to Kosh Agach and he said that would be impossible as our permit was only good to Khandagayty. He made us sign some big document in Russian he wrote (which I don't speak/read) that we believe said something to the effect of "I swear on the Orthodox Church, Father Putin, and the sacred Borsch that we will go no farther than Khandagayty so help me God". We ended up going for it anyway, Colebatch had posted the GPS coordinates of the border outpost that checks the permit. Although most people told us their permits had not been checked recently, we figured he had radioed ahead so we decided to go through the mountains and around the outpost. Long story short, we pushed our bikes over a 3000 meter mountain pass with no roads/paths and nearly killed ourselves and lost our bikes.As far as the actual road,coming from Kosh Agach expect easy road for the first 50 or so KM's, it steadily gets worse especially right after Buguzun pass. Once you get to the lake and the "Bridge" the road essentially disappears for a bit and you have to go through some ****ing annoying ass bog. With a GPS and waypoints, tracks, or openstreetmap navigation isn't hard and the road improves right after the lake. If you don't have a permit and are caught two things could happen. Last year (Summer 2015) it happened to us when we tried to cross at Khandagayty. They photographed us and our passports and kicked us out of the zone (What I have talked about up to this point is our crossing this year). Likely if you're caught, without a reason like trying to cross the border, you'll be deported or banned from Tuva for life. There were no permit checks in the Altai section but you might as well get the permit. As far as the Tuva permit, going from Kosh Agach you may be able to pick it up in Mugur Aksy. Reply if you guys have questions.

Great info arindia556!!!

I'm sorry for being dull - but where do I find the description?

Found it: http://www.sibirskyextreme.com/2009/06/altai-tuva/

Sent recently my applications for border permits to pu.tuva@fsb.ru and pugornyjaltaj@mail.ru.

I got a reply from Altai office on the same day, confirming that they'd got my letter and it would be processed with an approval or refusal in maximum 60 days after receipt. They didn't ask any passport copies.

Tuva office replied the next day, asking me to send passport, visa, migration card copies. I included to the applications passport scans/pics but I didn't have the visas, I am still waiting for it to be done. So I wrote (in Russian) them explaining the current situation. They replied back that the applications are accepted now, and asked me to send the visas in addition when they will be ready. Most of replies came in their morning time (GMT+7)

I love how this thread stays alive!

A bit off topic, but does anyone have a list of email addresses for the FSB departments issuing border permits?

There are email addresses here but it seems to be for port authorities as they only list marine borders. So somewhere there must be a list of email addresses where people here have found the ones for Tuva and Altai... can anyone share a link?

Would appreciate any help,

Cheers

EO

This is the list I found three years ago:
Подробно :: Федеральная Служба Безопасности
Buryatia and Tuwa worked, but some of them are not working, for example Yakutia or as we know Altai.

So, last night I emailed permit applications to both Tuva and Primorsky Krai. Soon got a confirmation from Primorsky Krai (they are 8 hours ahead of me I think), and seems like Tuva are responsive from the experience of others.

I sent a scanned print out of my application form which I had signed, a scan of the data page of my passport, and a cover note explaining that my visa is still in preparation. Everything was in Russian.

So here's hoping I get a permit for Uvs Lake area and the North Korean border.

Cheers,

EO

Hi guys,

I'm planning my trip to Altai repubblic and absolutley whant to go to UKOK plateau.
could you send me a doc or PDF vesion of the application to obtain the entering permit in Ukok area?
do you know if it is needed to mark a precise itinerary in the Plateau or if it is enough to gust write Ukok?
I saw that probably they will ask about the car you will use to go, I plan to find a car and driver once i'm in Altai, do you know if it is possible to obtain the permit without car details?

Thank you so much.

Camilla