Lost in the Stans
 

Somebody help us! OK - we've not left the UK yet, but we seem to be getting ourselves in a muddle in our route through Central Asia.

THe wife has always wanted to travel through Russia, and I have recently fallen in love with the idea of travelling through the 'Stans. And because we are about to drive to Oz, we thought we could combine it all.

So the plan was drive through Europe, the St Petersburg, Moscow and then do a loop through central asia as per:

Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan

And then finally onto Iran.

This all seemed very easy, but talking with David from Stantours and he isn't so sure.

The main sticking point is he recommends getting the Iranian visa in a western country, but you cannot apply more than 3 months in advance. We want to spend on average 3 weeks in each 'Stan (expcept perhaps Turkmenistan), and hence this isn't going to be feasable. he did suggest we could try and apply from Dushanbe and Tashkent, but this might involve waiting around a bit
So we did have a look at another route, this time cutting out Russia (sorry Jenny!!!). So this route would be

Turkey -> Iran -> Turkmenistan -> Uzbekistan -> Kazakhstan -> Kyrgyzstan -> tajikistan -> Afgahanistan -> Pakistan
This route fixed a lot of issues for us, but we asked David's advice again but he suggested the Wakhan corrider not to be feasible.

So anyone got any advice for us regarding how we can see all that central asia has to offer, without getting tied up in red tape.

Many Thanks - Please help!

central asia visa's
 

Hey Ollie,
Can't answer all of those questions BUT can comment on some.
DO NOT enter Central Asia unless you have ALL your visa's for that area in your passport before leaving Europe! We got in a hell of a pickle and even had to consider rail heading Nessie to Georgia to get out of there- it caused several sleepless nights.
David fron Stan Tours is very good but not the holy grail- things change very quickly over there and you have to realise that David's advice may be accurate at the time but that can change.
We know other travellers that have driven from Turkey, Georgia, Azerbaijan, ferry over the Caspian and onward from there. Maybe this would be an easier route for you?? Only down side would be missing the Iranian experience- hospitality heaven!
Anyway, we'll see you next month. Looking forward to it! Dave
PS We've done both routes to a degree- you can't beat Iran and Pakistan. Central Asia, for us, was a bit of a let down- lots of hassle, dodging cops, weeks on end begging for visa's and same, same scenery. I f we had our time again we would spend longer in Iran and Pakistan esp. the Hunza and Karakorum Highway before it gets upgraded by the Chinese!

Maybe this?
 

Hi Ollie

A friend of ours (travelling on American passport, but just backpacking, not overlanding) applied for his turkmen and iran visa in Uzbekistan. he had a 40 days visa for Uzbek and needed the 40 days because he had to wait around for a couple of weeks for his Iranian visa and another week or so for the Turkmen visa. You have to have one before the other (can't remember which way around)

We just finished the reverse route(well almost) of what you want to do. This would be my suggestion and here is our experience with timeframes.

I think you can quite easily get from St Pete through Moscow to Volgograd and entering Kazak at the Atyray border in 3 weeks. There is hardly anything to see between Moscow and Volgograd (obviously depending on the route - we took the most direct route because of winter weather)

For us, St Pete and Moscow was just about the highlight of our trip and definitely worth the extra kms (We didn't go to Iran and Turkmen though)

Maybe you can do russia (St P>Moscow>Volgograd) and then through Azerbaijan into Iran (not sure if this is possible) and loop up through Iran, Turkmen Uzbek etc. (Besides from desert and steppe, there's not much in west Uzbek and Kazak as well). I think you can enter Uzbek from Turkmen close to Nukus in Uzbek. This way you will be able to maybe apply for the Iran and Turkmen visa in Moscow (again not sure if possible??) and you can still do the rest of central asia going uzbek>tajik(pamir)>kyrgyz>kazak>russia etc.

We bumped into someone in Dushanbe who works in Kabul (for almost 5 years) and we asked him what he thought of entering Afghan with a vehicle because we were considering this and he said that we would be a very easy target for kidnappings etc and he would not recommend it at all. He said that there has been a big increase in kidnappings of american/british and any other rich nationality where a high ransom can be demanded. He also said that entering northern pakistan would be looking for trouble at the moment. He even adviced our backpacking friend who was going to go to Kabul not to walk around to much, but use taxis and to stay in hotels with armed guards at about US$70 per night. I'm not sure if he was trying to use scare tactics and if he was exaggerating or not, but thats his advice.

If you cut out Russia then you cut out Mongolia as well. Is this a place you wanted to go to (very nice place btw)?

Hopefully this won't confuse you any more than you already are...:D

I would endorse what the others have said about getting all your visas before you leave Europe. We also use Stantours and they are usually correct because they deal with it on a daily basis.

Also I would advise to avoid Afghanistan. The chances of being kidnapped are quite high.

I was in 'stans this summer (Russia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Iran) and I made visas there for Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan. It is possible but takes time and hassle. Uzbekistan visa I got next day (with LOI) however some other foreigners who applied at the same day with no LOI need to wait 1 week. Most hassle was with Turkmeistan transit visa (in Tashkent) and at the end they gave me different entry point and route that I asked for. LOI speeds things up. I (Estonian) needed LOI even for Kyrgyzstan, while most other nationalities do not. Got help from Stantours, but getting LOI may take a week or more.

If your country issues 2 passports then that eases things down, so you can apply on different embassies at the same time. You can also send one passport into Iran embassy in your country when you are approaching Iran and then ask someone to mail it back to you with visa. Getting Iran visa in stans is ranges from very difficult to not possible.

Someone previously told that 'stans were quite boring. Contrary, I think Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan are very nice if you wander some small mountain roads. Bishkek also has some really crazy architecture. Other countries are less interesting.

Visas in Bishkek
 

Hi,
When aI was there (summer 2006 - 2007) all backpackers seemed to use Bishkek to apply for visas. So did I. I applied there for Kazahkstan, Pakistan and India. The Kazakh one took a few days, the Pakistani one was issued on the day and the Indian in a couple of days.
I don't know how's the situation now but you can email Yoshi or Tolkum who run the Shakura Guesthouse in Bishkek and they always have information left by backpackers staying there, many of them are in Bishkek just to apply fopr visas.
( Sakura Guesthouse - Bishkek - Lonely Planet Hotels & Hostels )
Most travellers will go to Bishkek, apply for visas and while these where issued leave to visit Yssik Kul or Osh and return to Bishkek to collect visas. Many consulates allow you to take your passport while they process the visa. Take photocopies of it with you. Another way is to go to a "Notari" who can make an official copy of your passport, as good as the original in that country. I know of people who got them just to prevent for the police 'retaining' your passport expecting something in return for it. Notaries are very, very cheap and each ex soviet republic has them.
Kazakhstan it's very interesting but it's also vast and the distances between centres of interest huge.
I arrived to CA via Ukraine, Russia --Rostov na Donu, Volgograd, Astrakhan the Kazakhstan-- Atiray... It was really cool all the way. East of Volgograd it's a bit boring but I enjoyed nevertheless.
David at Stantours is very good. He helped me a lot, but check with others in the region and at the Thorntree website.
Everyone complains of the time and the seamingly randomness the Iranians have to issue visas (except in the UAE where I got it in just two days!).
I hope this helps.
DD

Head hurts
 

Hey guys - thanks for all your answers - if anyone else has advise keep it coming cos I still don't have a clue :) But I need to re-read all of this and have a think.

The only thing that I have confirmed is I won't be 'hopping' across the Wakhan Corridor to Pakistan. Looks so simple on the map, but apparently there is no easy route ...

We are now thinking about 'hopping' over to China and taking the quick route down to KKH. With all the extra expense and paper work that involves ..

Hmmm

thanks

Loi
 

Hi Ollie,

when we went in '07, we applied for and got, a "Letter of Invitation". This was valid for 3 months.
When we arrived in Almaty, we went to the Iranian Embassy and they gave us a 1 month visa, valid for 3 months.
We had to speak to the Consul to get special permission for the 3 month jobbie as they normally issue a 1 month visa that is valid for 1 month (before entry).
The LOI has a serial number that also appears on the Embassy computer systems so the chance of it being refused are very slim.

Cheers,
John

Go through the Balkans into Turkey, see central Turkey (cappadocia etc) and cross the border into iran at Dogubayazit. Enjoy Iran and it's people, you won't see that hospitality in all the Stans (dont forget your Carnet for Iran!). From there you could up to Turkmenistan (Turkmenbashi, Merv), and into Uzbekistan (Bukhara, Samarkand, Fergana valley). That will bring you into Kyrgyzstan, enjoy the view! From Son Kul, head back north to Bishkek and cross into Kazachstan, north into Russia. Get yourself a business visa to allow multiple entries into russia. Maak a short loop in Siberia and enter Mongolia on the west side, drive to Ulanbataar, enjoy the Gobi and head up north back into Russia and head back to St. Petersburg etc.

GOOD route but no chance for korea and japan

after kazakhstan go up thru Volgograd to SPeterburg then down to Moskva and then head east across Urals to Vladivostok. there you'll be able to turn left(south :cool4:) to Gobi or go straight to Vladik to ship to Korea or Japan

Decision would be based on your budget. Driving to Vladik opens a whole new world of possibilities. Ship to SE-Asia or down under... Driving back to the UK would also be a nice completion, maybe go allt he way north and check the cape.

embassy troubles
 

As we came to realise everyone has different experiences- we HAD to stay in Bishkek whilst waiting for our Kazak visas. The embassy kept our passports and we were 'reporting' to the embassy every second day, both of these issues made leaving the city for a little jaunt impossible. That and the fact that Asia mountain, the place we were camping, probably would not have let us back as campers if we left, ensured we were 'stuck' in the city for 18 days! At $20 a night to camp- it soon added to our budget!
Central Asia is very nice and worth a visit- but if we had known what we know now, we would never have entered from China.
David at Stan Tours is very good but he also didn't realise that Olga in Russian embassy in Bishkek was a twisted ***** and was leading many a overlander on a merry dance, with NO visa at the end. It's impossible to know everything that's going on at any one time in that part of the world.
I guess we're saying- just be prepared and always have an alternate route planned.
Dave:thumbup1:

At present it is not possible. The border between Russian and Azerbaijan is closed for non-CIS citizens, and obviously the Russia - Georgia border is closed full stop. Basically, westerners cannot cross the Caucasus mountains at all at the moment.

wrong
westeners can not cross russian Caucasian border but the way Turkey-Georgia-Azerbaijan-iran/turkmenistan still passable

THAT'S TRUE . . .

Some decisions made
 

So, thanks to everyone for their advice, we have made 2/3rd the decisions we need to.

We did consider coming down through Russia and looking at catching the Socci/Trabzan ferry (I think it was that one). Thus we would be able to enter Iran after getting the visa from the UK. But this would mean that we would have to route through China and back down the KKH, which is fine, but we would stuggle to get down the KKH by closing time.

So, instead we have decided to miss out Russia (do it another time) and come down through Bulgaria and follow this route:

Turkey - Iran - Turkmenistan - Uzbekistan - Tajikistan - Kyrgyzstan.

The last bit is what we are undecided on. I was thinking that we should head from Kyrgyzstan down the Torugart Pass into China and then down the KKH.

My wife (who remember is not going to Russia as she desired) thinks it will be a shame to miss out the SE corner of Kazakhstan, and would like to enter there.

Does anyone know if this is worth the hassle and if so, should we look at a double entry visa in Kyrgyzstan or perhaps push across the Chinese border at Khorgos? I think she is excited by the gorge and mountains, but i have a feeling we will see plenty along the pamir etc.

Any thougths welcome, and thanks for the help.

Cheers

Have the journey through China agreed and arranged well ahead
 

Once in CA it will take you anything up to a month or longer to arrange. I've heard of people who managed to arrange it a lot faster. Usually they pay top price for that. Lots of people have been rejected at the Tougar pass, it is well known for it.
Have a great adventure.
dd

Cant see any reason why Khorgos would be more difficult than Torugart Pass. The other way if anything, but you will have a guide etc... yes? Then its just more money for a longer trip through China.
I would have thought SE Kaz was well worth it for the canyon but to make sure, go to Almaty and Lake Balqash as well!

Remember, you will probably only go once!

Pic is the lake reflected in the clouds... nothing to do with lens reflections.

Cheers,
John

Stantours
 

Great thanks John, probably enough encouragement there to make me want to do it :)

We are using Stantours to sort our guide, and also visa/LOIs. Will drop him another email on Monday and see what difference it makes to the price.

thanks

Crossed the torugart last summer with a group of cars. Was very complicated and you will need to pre-arange everything. We had all the hotels and route lined up all the way to Beijing, no deviation possible. We arrived during the Olympics, which made it even more difficult. Spent 4 days with various testing/paperwork to get all the permits sorted while we were in China, despite all the work that had gone into it beforehand.

Torugart border crossing is in the Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region, makes it more difficult as well.

You could go up to Kazach, loop Siberia into Mongolia and cross at Ehenhot, could be less of a hassle. Keep in mind the permit needed to enter China is NOT cheap.

We are hoping that sorting everythign out in advance via Stantours will cut a bit of the hassle. David will hopefully sort the guide, visas etc etc needed.

Where is Ehenhot? I cannot find it anywhere ....

Hi,

As you can see from the replies, there's various ways & routes for the Stans. Here's my 2 cents worth...

I was there from July to October this year. Route: Iran, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan, China, Pakistan

I had all my visas in advance apart from the Chinese one (which I got in Tashkent). Details for how I got my visa are on my website. The only difficult visa was Turkmenistan – those guys really like to mess you around. Turkmenistan Embassy in London: useless. The one in Belgium was OK, but told me the visa would only be valid for 3 months. The one in Vienna (ask for Mr Madela) was good: no 3 month limit, very friendly. I don't think it's a problem if you're NOT Austrian (worked OK for me and my travel partner: 1x German, 1x British). But I've got to say: they did mess me about quite a bit, asking for a LOI for a Transit-Visa... something that doesn't exist.

Kyrgyzstan (Embassy in Berlin): easy. No time limit. Tajikistan (Embassy in Berlin): easy, including GBAO permit. No time limit. Uzbekistan (Embassy in London): not the friendliest fella when I went there, but once he heard 'motorcycle' he got a bit more enthusiastic/friendly. No time limit as far as I remember.

Visa en-route: my travel-partner got his Kyrgyzstan Visa in Tashkent (1 day express). And we both got our China visa in Tashkent (get airplane ticket, get online hotel booking confirmation, show those to embassy, get visa, cancel plane ticket... but I think this was just because of the Olympic Games and the Chinese government getting overly concerned after the Olympic torch demonstrations).

I met a lot of people who got various visa in either Tashkent or Bishkek. But: Turkmenistan was ALWAYS a problem... wrong route, delayed processing time,...
I'm not sure, but I seem to remember a Swiss guy who got his Iran visa in Bishkek without too much hazzle.

If you can afford it, why not give China a go? The KKH in China is an absolute DREAM to ride. We had our problems getting in, but that was because of the Olympic Games. And once we changed from a 'problem agent' to a 'proper agent' (Newland Travel from Kashgar were absolutely superb!), we got things moving within 3 days. But it should be MUCH easier for 2009, now those dreaded Olympic Games are over.... cost for 2 bikes: $700 each. And you can stay in Kashgar or elsewhere for no extra money - as long as you don't move the bike.

Afghanistan: Because China closed its borders to Kyrgyzstan unexpectedly, we considered going from Tajikistan through Afghanistan. Until I contacted the HU community there (1 guy only), who made it crystal clear that Afghanistan on a motorcycle is not a good idea. (Kidnappings, bombings,...)

Hope this helps - Good luck with the planning!
Bjorn