Leaving car in Rusia/Kaz/Kyrg - TIP regulations - what is really possible?
 

Dear all,

Need help from fellow travellers!

Based on information we got from several sources including this forum, we set off to Central Asia in September this year in our Landcruiser, intending to drive first to the Ural mountains in Russia and - after obtaining a 12 month TIP at the Russian border - leave the car there for the winter, then fly back next year to pick up the car, drive into Kazachstan and Kyrgyzstan, leave the car again, and then either leave the customs union or extend the TIP and stay a bit longer.

Much to our disappointment however the customs at the border (Terehova border post Latvia-Russia) refused to give us a 12 month TIP, telling us that the TIP can never be longer than the lenght of your visa. They sent us to customs office inland - we tried 2 of them but they basically kicked us out of the country. Our big adventure ended after 2 weeks.

We got a little different story from every customs officer we talked to, but it seemed they all agreed a TIP can never be longer than a visum. I have understood however that EU travellers have managed to get it done whilst they should have the same visa limits as I have (max 30 days)

We want to try again but don't want again to be rejected the neccesary papers.

Has anyone travelled to Central Asia in similar fashion as we want to, and if so what experience did you have? Are we likely to be more lucky at a particular border crossing? Or are customs right and the 12 month TIP is a fairy tale?

Also, does anyone have official writing from Russian customs about the alleged new rules in force since 2016 which state that the TIP is standard 12 months now? I have read this on this forum and some others, however cannot find this info anywhere on e.g. Russian customs website. If we can bring anything like this to the border, we stand much better chance I assume.

Any experiences, tips/advise, links or official writings which can help us to realize our adventure would be much appreciated!!

Cheers from the Netherlands,
Martin & Elena

In August I drove into Russia from Estonia. My car was given until the expiry of my visa (about 11.5 months). I reached Magadan in October and the car is now waiting there for everything to freeze up so I can start the return trip (Jan - Apr).

It seems that when Russian customs recently extended the maximum period which the car is allowed in from 90 days to 365, that initially they gave one year regardless of how long the visa is. That now seems to have changed.

Since you have already used a Russian visa, the simple solution for you is to get a 1 year multi-entry visa. Why waste your time going to various borders on the remote chance that they may overlook the rule?

This year when I entered Custums Union in Kyrgistan from Tajikistan, the Kyrgitsan customs just gave me 2 month of TIP.
Even I had a 1 year Business visa, no way to get more.
I think it depends on the guys at the border too.

Maybe it is an interpretation difference. So the TIP can now be one year, but is still depended on your visa length.

So you are now hanging around in Latvia, still attempting to cross?
Or did you go back home already?

I'm not sure how much holiday you wanted to have before the winter, but perhaps you can drive to Ural next year, while leaving the car in Latvia or other Baltic states for the winter? It seems to be a 2500km drive so perhaps you can do that next year?
Maybe it was not your plan but the next best option?

This year all the people I met coming from Tajikistan to Kyrgyzstan had 12 months TIP. This was last july/august. I know at least two guys who entered late september and received same 12 months at that border. No visa involved, as they were not going to Russia.

Things change quickly in the region, and, as klausmong1 said, can also depends on the border guards.

In my case it was from Tajikistan to Kirgistan at Baken border.

And I had 1 year visa and no chance to get more than 2 month time for the TIP.

I think it really depends on the border official. In July I got 3 month TIP when entering from Estonia to Russia. Exited the union to Tajikistan.

I didn't try to ask to get a longer one as I didn't need it.

All the people I was refferring to in my post entered Kyrgyzstan at Kyzylart – Bor Dobo border

We also had the feeling it may be more down to having bad luck with the border official than anything else....

@ eurasiaoverland: I need to look into the visa again as we were told we can get max 30 days or multi-entry with max 1 re-entry within limited time span. You got a 12 month visum? (see you're in NL as well?)

@ lovetheworld: no had only 2 weeks holiday now, the goal was really to get the car to Russia in starting position for next year. Drove back home, 8500km in 2 weeks, crazy road trip!

As we need to travel in stages our whole plan kinda depends on being able to leave the car in the area for which we need the paperwork to allow the car the stay whilst we fly out...

Hi Martin,

Yeah I understand the goal. But that was why I was suggesting to leave it in on of the baltic countries, in Shengen zone. That would be easy (just find a safe place for the car), no difficult paperwork involved. And then you can continue with your plan, even though you would be like 2 or 3000km away from your planning. So definitely not perfect, but I just meant it as the next best option.
But I see that you already drove back.

As an alternative plan, you could drive it to Bulgaria for example (again Shengen zone, so easy to leave the car)
And then get to Kazakhstan over the black sea and the caspian sea, using the ferries.
But I think you were looking to save some time when coming back for next year, so this is probably not a relevant option.

Succes in ieder geval!

Hi Martin

Yes I'm in NL, and I have received several Russian visas in Den Haag. To apply for a 1 year multi-entry visa, you must have visited Russia in the previous 12 months. So (assuming this is your first trip to Russia), you could not have got one before making your trip, but now that you've used your tourist visa, you can both go ahead and get one. It costs €35 plus the €30 agency fee. You need to get an invitation online; I used Real Russia and paid I think £120 for a one year multi entry business visa invitation (no, you don't need a business reason). That's all. You get the invitation immediately and can apply for your visa straight away.

Hope this helps, let me know if you need more info.

EO

Hi Martin,
as far as I am aware you had to enter with a business visa at least once before you can get a 1 year business visa with a business invitation. Otherwise you need an invitation through the Foreign Ministry which is pretty expensive (350 to 450 Euro, depending on the agency). This was at least the case when I applied for my 1st 1 year business visa in Germany.

We got now twice a 1 year TIP at the Russian Mongolian Borders (Ulaanbaishint and Altanbulag)with a 1 year visa. Accoring to the custom officer the 1 year TIP is the standard independent of the visa type. see also:
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...ssia-tip-88129

We met other travellers with non business visas got a 1 year TIP BUT also read in a German forum ( https://www.wuestenschiff.de/phpbb/p...7.html#p182587) about travellers with similar issues you experienced at the Latvia-Russian Boarder with a transit visa.

Regards
Bernd

Definitely not true !!!!

Even I know that this is said a lot of times, it is not true.

I got all my 3 1 year Muti entry business visa without a visa the past 12 month ago.
Even I knop personally ( or met them on the road ) people from Germany, Netherlands, Italy and GB, who also got their 1 year business without problems for the first time.

You only need an agency which can handle that and which ca get invitations from the migration authority.

First time I paid 250€ for the invitation + 50 € delivery.

Now you can get the invitation online from Visa service like visahouse.com for about 180€

Actually, that is exactly the feedback I got from the Russian embassy in Brussels. I had a business visa invotation letter for multiple entry and 12 months. The Embassy would still only allow me 3 months + double entry. Their explanation was "because you haven't visited Russia before".
When I told them I needed more, their response was that I would have to come back and apply for a new visa on the same invitation letter and I would receive multiple entry and duration to the end date mentioned on the LOI.

Yes, this happens when people want to save money and do it by themselves instead using a proper visa agency.

I know many people from different EU countries where this works out without problems.

This is certainly the case in the Hague if applying in person or through the agency recommended by the embassy. I don't know / care about other places, as I was talking specifically about regulations applying here.

I am sure there are agencies which for a higher price can get around the rules, but since the OP has visited Russia in the last 12 months, the argument is irrelevant anyway.

Maybe for him, but not for others.
It may help anyone if you know that it is possible by doing it with a proper visa company.

In my case, the last 2 times I did not pay higher prices for this service.

i got 12 months at takji, kyg`z border in july , if you need to extend yours get intouch with Oibek or George at MUZTOO in Osh thay can arrange it for you

Thanks all for the replies. I also understood meantime from visa agency that I should be able to apply for multi entry full year visum. The only worry from the agency was that Russian customs might make an issue when I then arrive with my (Russian) girlfriend at the border with what clearly is a holiday car and not a business car, but maybe such concerns are not really too relevant.

Does anyone know if the Belarus - Russian border has known issues with TIP issuing? (or do you get the TIP actually already at Polish / Belarus border?)

@ Cyber zebb - I'm already in touch with them, thanks! Do you know if you can extend for unlimited amount of times, or is it restricted to e.g. 1 or 2 extensions?

Thanks,
Martin

It is no problem to use a business visa for private / pleasure trips, I have done so for at least 10 trips into Russia.

The Belarus - Russia border has no immigration or customs facilities and has for the last year or so been closed to foreigners as far as I know, so you'll need to enter from another country.

@eurasiaoverland, how have you been applying for Russian visas? Since you, me and Martin are in Netherlands. Did you apply yourself or through an agency, if through an agency, which one do you recommend?
The Hague is one hour away, and we will be applying for four persons. I can imagine that we would save quite some money by doing it yourself, but I haven't done much investigation yet (which I will do)
Thanks in advance.

Oh and good to know about Belarus. I thought it would be to difficult anyway, and that we should drive around it. But this confirms it.

By the way, I checked your site, we almost have the same car, we just have a van built on top of it instead of a pickup :P
Will do more reading when time permits.

As far as I know there is only one border from Belarus to RUS that can handle Foreigners.
Do not use any other border!! Might cause big problems later.

And to avoid problems with questioning about the business visa, just tell them you are doing travel stories, videoshows ...

I know from 2 persons which were questioned about the business visa and had to pay a ( small ) fine.

But it is just about what you answer when you get asked.

Hi

Please look up the thread list as in an earlier reply I have written how I went about getting a visa in Den Haag.

EO

So Belarus is no go and at the border with Latvia we had bad experience, and apparently were not the only ones....

So what does that leave? Estonia or Ukraine? No other options?

Or should we simply try Latvia again with a full year visa?

Rgds,
Martin

Ukraine Border this year was OK for me.

But about borders:

You always hear different experience from different people.
That is normal.
Depends on the officer on duty at the border and the mood they have at the moment.

I had very good experience at different borders and heard about people with problems a few days later.

As I said, it depends.
And it is mostly about the question " why business visa " and if you get the proper answer prepared than it is all good.

Any border except Belarus. Just tell them you are driving to XX. Maybe it's because I speak some Russian, but I've never had problems at the border. I don't lie and say I am there for business, I tell the truth, and point out that a tourist visa isn't long enough for what I want to do. Even when I've been hauled in by the FSB in the North Caucasus, they didn't care a damn that I had a business visa.

The guys at the Shumilkino border (very far SE of Estonia) were very chilled when I passed this year. This is a busy border, like Narva, and my impression is that they just want to get people through.

Or, you could pick some very infrequently used border crossing in Ukraine (try Velikyi Pisarivka / Graivoron) where they don't speak English.

Good luck, don't worry about the border crossing. If you seem nervous / agitated they are far more likely to give you a grilling.

:thumbup1::thumbup1:

I don't worry to much about border crossings, and I also don't want to hijack this topic.

But if I visit Mongolia as well, will I get three TIPs for the car in total? So entering Russia, TIP 1, entering Mongolia with TIP for Mongolia of course, and entering Russia again (eastern Mongolia exit) and getting a new TIP there?

We will be using a 6 months double entry visa if all works out

Yes, you have 3 TIP

You leave Russia ( Customs Union ) and give back the TIP.

Get a new one in Mongolia, and agein a new one in Russia.

But that is easy.

You can keep the TIP. The departure will be just registered in the computer system and with a stamp on the TIP. You get a new paper in Mongolia. On your return to Russia you either can use the existing TIP (thats what all the Mongolians do with 20 stamps on it) or fill in a new one to get the 12 month again.


Having had an uncleared departure myself and read of similar issues of other travellers I can just strongly advice to keep the old TIP’s and store pictures / scans online so you have it available for the next years just in case …

Regards
Bernd

Yes, you keep the paper but it will get out of the computer.

I just did not want to make it to complicated.

I never used the old TIP paper again, actually I tried the first time and they did not want to accept it at the Mongolian / Russian border.

And this year everyone at the border filled out new ones, even Mongols.
And also Russians had to fill out the paper which surprised me. ( maybe because of REimport after exiting )

Ok thanks guys. I'll make pictures of the TIPs when they are stampt and returned (so when exiting the country) if possible and allowed.
I don't worry to much about it, but just curious to how it works.

We will also have a Carnet Du Passage, which they can ask for at the Mongolian border, but won't be using it. We only arrange it for Japan.

I never heard someone asking for a carnet at the mongolian border.

In fact, I know a person who wanted to show his carnet and they refused it.

As far as I know you only may need it in Mongolia when you ship the bike there and pick it up in UB

I read it somewhere (can't remember where), but it doesn't matter, you will get in either way.
It will be fine, I just have to get the Russian and Mongolia visas sorted and everything is good to go for our trip. (Japan is 90 day visa free, and entering with Carnet)

Anyway, this is enough disruption of the thread, let's go back to the original discussion.

I have been 3 times in Mongolia now and I met a lot of travellers, no one had a carnet.

Except some Travellers who shipped it to Mongolia.

Which border crossing is it?

I forgot the name, but it is a main border and there is also a special Computer terminal what can handle non Russian and Belarus Travellers.

I met a few Motorcycle travellers this year near Kursk and the entered legally on this border.

I think it's at the three-way border which is known in Russia as Novy Yurkovich, at the point where Belarus, Ukraine and Russia all meet. It's close to what I regard as the most scenic parts of Belarus (and the most radioactive!) in the wetlands along the Priptyat River.

https://eurasiaoverland.files.wordpr...pyat-river.jpg

But, I have never crossed this border, so cannot tell you 100%. It would make sense however, as the Belarussians will have to stamp you out in case you go to Ukraine.

About storage: I have an address in Kyrgyzstan, but considering as well to leave the car at first in Kazahstan.

Does anyone know any reliable car storage options in South-East Kazahstan, close enough to an airport to fly back home?

Thank you,
Martin

Hi Guys,
on my side it was always possible to have a business visa for Russia (1 or 2 years, now even 3). Just a money thing. But last year I had troubles at the border with Mongolia in Buryatie. Got fined for staying in a border zone without special permit and then fined again for traveling with a business visa. On my way back from Mongolia to Altai, had lot of discussions at the border as well because of my business visa. Eventually, the next time I showed up in Domodedovo airport, I was sent back to Switzerland and banned for 3 years. No explanations except that my visa has been canceled.
I still don't know the exact reason. Has any of you experienced issues with business visa lately? The last 4 years I had never a problem.