China: self-drive & without a guide...it's possible!
 

Hi everyone,

I have some very exciting news to share with you all which could, potentially, revolutionise the overlanding route from Europe to Oceania (or vice versa).

Myself and two fellow motorbikers (my hubby & a friend) have just successfully concluded a 2-month GUIDE-LESS traverse of China, from Kyrgyzstan to Laos.
From everything we gathered, this is the first LEGAL self-ride and guide-less tour of China. It took us 18 months to organize, and over a year to find an agent willing to hear us out. The law changed in China in 2013 making it perfectly legal for foreign overlanders to drive unaccompanied...yet finding an agent willing to accept and 'test' this was the hardest thing we've ever done!
But we did it, and the agent is so pleased that all worked out well that he is willing to start offering this service to anyone interested in crossing China.

If you're interested have a quick read of my latest blog post, where I detail the basics.

There is, to be honest, a heck of a lot more to share. I am already receiving queries and assume there will be soon a barrage of repeated questions. If you give me some time, I may just make another (more detailed) blog post.
Personally, I don't think this will necessarily suit everyone. We've just met a couple with a camper who did a guided traverse and they are of the opinion that they still would have wanted a guide nonetheless. They are not confident they could have done it alone.

Chris (my partner) and I have been on the road, continuously, for over a decade. China may have had it's hurdles, but we found it no more challenging that parts of Africa, South America or the Middle East. Same goes for the language/cultural barrier/bureaucracy etc etc.

From our end, the most important message we'd love to get across is that China should not be seen as simply a country to 'cross through' but a bona fide overlanding destination. It is incredibly beautiful and boasts innumerable natural wonders which simply blew us away. MOST of the country is stunning wilderness, which is the complete opposite of what we have always believed. Steer clear of the eastern side (where most of the 1.3 billion people live) and you'll enjoy a bush camping heaven bar none.

If you want any more info on this please contact me, otherwise feel free to spread the wonderful news!! :))) It's a great day for motorbike overlanding! :D

Cheers from Laos
Laura

fan tas tic
 

Hi Laura
That's excellent news, fantastic and thank you for sharing.
As you rightly say no doubt you will be inundated with questions, I have many !
but i will wait for the blog update.

I just wanted to say thanks.

now, off to read your current blog.

many, many thanks.

phil.

This is very good news! Thank you for posting!

Honestly, I was never 100% convinced that having a guide was strictly an obligation by law (I never found any official statement that any law requires it). I do agree that some areas have restrictions (for reasons we may understand). I've posted once a link to some official statements, not sure if it is country-wide rule. But no statement about having a guide or not.

Re-posted Here: Procedures for Temporary Entry Vehicles and Drivers

Definitely resketching my 2015 route :D

keep dancin'
 

Hey guys,
it is such a pleasure Phil to share the news and Arkean you are absolutely right, although we have now learnt that there is nothing even resembling a 'country wide law' in china. Gotta deal with the country province by province.

I'll try and finalise my second post soon, but I already know that it probably won't answer all the questions eheh
Baby steps I reason!
Cheers
Laura

This is fantastic news. This is what we "all" have been waiting for... Now to find a container from Colombia to Vladiwostok?

Adventurous greetings,
Coen

Hey guys!

You would not believe the number of emails I have received in the last 5 days...blimey!
Not that I was rushed or anything ahaha...but here is a blog update! Part 1 is about on all the things you need to know BEFORE you go.

What you need to know-Part 1

Please wait until part 2 is also published and then feel free to message me if you still have questions :thumbup1:

Cheers for now! Laura

thanks again Laura. top girl.

Great! Thanks to you for sharing that excellent news! :)

Nihao
 

Laura,
this is great news, and I'm sure you've had a terrific time in this great country. Burma, now China, it looks like the continent is slowly opening up.

Now I understand you've spent hours and days on this, but just one simple question: how can you be sure it is legal ? I mean, there have been dozens of reports of people who've been illegally driving in China without a problem. Granted, they were on locally registered bikes, but as you mentioned, so are yours with temporary license plates. Somebody even claimed to have talked his way through the customs form Kaz without showing the proper papers. Motorbikes in China are everywhere and don't attract attention so people have been taking advantage of that.

The point is, until an accident happens (God forbids) or a thorough police investigation takes place, there's always the possibility of some authorities pulling a law from under the table and going, we're going to impound your vehicle and deport you. Or maybe even without a law backing it.. although this is the case in many other countries and we still drive there.

In any case, are you guys starting a business to help and streamline the process for other overlanders ? that would be great news, and I, like many others here, would be interested. Mongolia to Laos, anyone ? (from what you're saying I reckon that between Kyrgyzstan and Pakistan the situation hasn't changed).

Looking forward to your next adventures !
Laurent

Hey Laurent,

Yes, it really does look like this part of the world is opening up slowly slowly. Chris, my partner, has his eyes set on Nth Korea next! ahahah NO WAY! I want some easy life for the rest of the year thanks :)))

Absolutely there have been people who started with groups and then ditched them, and I am sure a few have gotten through the whole country with no paperwork at all, by paying bribes or just sneaking through.
Anyway, to keep the answer to your question as simple as possible: we know that our independent traverse was legal because we had permits that said it was. It is really that simple.

Of course a wayward policeman can make up any excuse to pull you over, request a fine be paid or impound your vehicle but as you rightly say, this is actually the case in MOST countries around the world, outside of developed Western ones. But I believe this to be a different matter altogether.

Anyway...we just want to outline the basics for everyone who wants to follow suit, but then we will leave it to Ricard and his team to take over. As excited as I still am about our China trip (it is an amazing country!) I am also keen to organize all the info I have, share it with the world and get back to my travel-life. I was an overland tour guide for 6 years and do logistics well but I no longer have the desire to do it full-time!
Anything else you need though...just let me know!
Cheers for now
Laura :)

Hello Laura, thank you very much for your information.
It's really is a very good news, I will' just receive an account to enter by Kyrgyzstan in China in may 2015 to go by Bulgan border with Mongolia.;
she ask me, 2800 euros for just 2200 km and the guide behind me.


I follow your blog
cheers.
thierry

Do you have a working web site we can go to,the one listed on facebook did not go thru here in the US?

Hi Thierry!
Yes I know, the guided tour costs are astronomical, yet having said this the border permit costs themselves are also quite substantial. A crossing of China is not yet ‘cheap’ by any means, but at least one can save on the cost of guide after Xinjinag.

@ Yokesman...which site are you referring to?
Have a look at my latest blog, Ricard’s contact details are at the end :) Click here

I should have perhaps detailed the fact that China Tierra de Aventura does not yet advertise this service and this is why I took on the task to outline as much as possible and share as much info as I can, to save them having to answer all the repetitive emails. Hopefully, by the time my second post is done, most overlanders will just contact him for a quote...knowing all the requirements involved.
Anyway, I’ll try and get Part 2 posted today! Cheerio to all

great news....
i'm planing crossing China in two and half years...more than enough time for preparation...

Thank you for that great news!

My Path leads in direction of the Panamericana, but we never now where this trip is over. At least the next trip will lead to the silk road.

Surfy

I think he means www.chinatierrasdeaventura.com for which there is a link in the "about" part of their Facebook page. Seems that the domain is no longer active.

Hi,

Great news. You write

Would you give us some numbers?

Thanks, Tobi

At long last .....the missing link !! whoop whoop

Hey guys, glad you're all so enthusiastic about this new option for China.
Yes Chris, the link to CTA's website is not operational, but you can just leave them a message there on theie FB page. Page should work and should be open also to non-members, but I do give his email address at the end of my 'Things to know BEFORE' blog.

Toby, in that same blog I also explain why I am reluctant to name our price. Each crossing has different costs, depending on which border one choose, which (and how many) provinces one chooses etc etc and especially if you wish to cross Tibet, for which you still need a guide.

If you've researched overlanding in China then you would know that it is not a cheap country to get into and travel through. The guide cost is 'only' about $100 a day and this is the only cost you'll be avoiding by going independently, which is still a lot mind you!
Ball-park figure, permit costs range between $2,000 and $4,000 per vehicle depending on where/when/how.

Only $100/day,if you look at many reports at all this is manys daily budget.
Sure we have places that are a must see, so have put aside for that but China ,a trip from Thailand is more doable.the Burma Road is still being held captive to high prices also, regardless of the money poured in since 2001 for an open asian road.

China 2015
 

Hello Laura,

thank you very much for posting this here, maybe it could also work for me next year. But I will enter from the Far East of Russia.

I have just contacted you over your blog. Pls forward my email address to Ricard, so I can get in contact with and see what which way to get my bike and myself over the border.

Enjoy your journey, hope to meet you on the road on day.

Greetings from Finland
mika

about Temporary Entry Vehicles and Drivers
 

about Temporary Entry Vehicles and Drivers
I am a Chinese live in Canada,
1. to get a temporary driver licence is easy , you don't even to take a paper test you can get it .if you want get a five years driver licence you just need pass a paper test in one week.
2. to get a temporary vehicle plate is not that easy.in that "Registration of Temporary Entry Vehicles", the hard part is d." The entry permit of the vehicle issued by Chinese Customs;"
3.I think there are some bylaw for Xinjiang Province for ESCORT.this is not a big issue

I want drive my KLR from Canada to China in 2016, I think I can figure out how to get in China.

Hey Laura,

Are you still planning to write on your blog the second part that you mentioned in some posts before??

GRTZ,

Jeroen

Does not work for my journey in 2015.
 

Not for me.



Hello everybody,


I spend the last three months trying to find an agency in China to help me to cross the borders and travel WITHOUT a guide for two months in June and July 2015.

Most of the agencies that I contacted would not even answer. The ones that would answer told me that I cant travel without a guide. I found only one agency, that said it could be possible without a guide, and this agency is the one that Laura mentioned

www.chinatierradeaventura.com

and after some emails, Ricard gave me a quote for the following journey.

One bike, one rider. Entering Beginning of June 2015 at Suifenhe (Mudanjang) / Pogranicoyj (Ussurijsk) coming from Russia. Travelling for two months (60 days) and than leaving to Kirgistan.


This is the qoute from Ricard:


About the cost in China, be ready for a heart attack,
-ONLY ONE VEHICLE
Enter and exit fee including temporary driving license, temporary license for vehicle, insurance. 50000 RMB (today’s rate is 7,7 RMB one Euro)
Guide service including support vehicle (is mandatory in most of the places you will be) 3000 RMB7PER DAY

The cost if you can joint some other travelers will drop quite a lot cause some of the cost can be share


For my journey this would cost me: 38000 Usd plus fuel and hotels.

As soon as I got the quote, I asked Ricard if he made a mistake with the zeros, but he confirmed that this was the price. So, I have to tell nobody here on the Hubb, that I am not going to look for other travelers to share this amount. There is no way that I will get the costs down to something that I want to afford.


This leaves me with three options. Renting a bike. Buying a bike. Getting my bike over the border without paperwork ;-)

There is still plenty of time, but I wont try the official version over an agency anymore.

Hope this helps somebody to plan his journey to China.

Greetings from Finland
mika

:eek:

Guide service including support vehicle (is mandatory in most of the places you will be) 3000 RMB7PER DAY

So, what is left of the story that you can travel in China without a mandatory guide?? Defacto nothing!!

I never had a good feeling about this topic, sorry.

GRTZ,

Jeroen

Well ~ the wishful thinking and a lot of talk about motor-vehicle travel in China pops up every year.....

Do get in touch once you get into the greater Shanghai or Beijing regions, might be around, bear in mind all the time please ~ the Middle Kingdom called China always has been and always will work in mysterious ways....

TIC = This is China!
1. Everything is possible in China.
2. Nothing is easy.
3. Patience is the essence of success.
4. The answer "yes" is not necessarily an indication of agreement or confirmation.
5. "You don't understand our country" means they disagree.
6. "Provisional regulations" mean they can change the rules any time they want, even retroactively.
7. "Basically, no problem" means a BIG problem.
8. "Signing a contract" means the beginning of the real negotiation.
9. When you are feeling optimistic, think about rule number two.
10. When you are feeling discouraged, think about rule number one.
11. If they tell you, that you know China very well, say NO - otherwise they'll show you, that you don't!

***above are just some of my simple China business rules***

Hi riders, why not try ridechina to find a solution riding cross China? These guys are riders and willing to help younwith any budget.
Other agencies may send a car and a guide, we ourselves will ride with you crossing China. China Motorcycle Tours,Rentals and self drive tours-Ride China

I am glad you liked China, for me it is great to hear people say that. I wish all the people you met were friendly and helpful.

P.S. I really don't think you are legally allowed to ride cross China without a guide. Did you have the Papers with you? Did you see those papers? Did Richard see those papers? Did Richard's China agent know you were alone without a guide? Sorry for thoses straight questions. I wish the riders are led to the right way, a way that is legal and safe.

We really don't like idea of permit, hoping one day everyone can travel freely anywhere in China.

Hi RideChina,

we loved China and rate it as the most fascinating country we've ever travelled throuhg. After more than a decade of continuous travel, this is quite the feat. people were incredibly friendly and hospitable, food was delish and the nature just blew our minds :)))

As for our paperwork, of course Ricard and his team knew we were travelling alone, something which has been permitted for quite some time I believe.
We had 32 pages of permits with us at all times and, just for our curiosity, had them all professionally translated. No-where does it state we needed a guide except for Xinjiang province and nowhere did it state that the guide had to be a 'professional', only a 'Chinese citizen with Chinese driver's licence'. This is when Ricard's fiends helped out. ;) the only other restriction was that the 3 of us had to ride together, always. get in together and get out together. Plus, of course, the permits specified our route and stated we were not to ride outside of the provinces for which we had permits.

If you re-read the post before yours you'll get a good idea of where the problem is. There is no such thing as a 'that's the law so that's it' mentality in China. Each province is a law onto itself, so had we been stopped by a policeman who believed we HAD to be guided, it would have been up to us to argue it out. We were ready for that, although were never stopped, in 8 weeks and almost 8000km ride. Actually we were stopped once but that's only because they wanted photos :))))

The most important point I wanted to make with all the posts and shares, is that I never meant to say that Ricard is the ONLY agent on the planet who can do this. It took me 18 months of back and forth to convince HIM to let us go it alone (legally) so meant for it to be an incentive for anyone else that it IS possible, if one is willing to put in some hard work. We did it and I believe others can do it too. That's all.

I've been getting various emails these past weeks from travellers complaining that the price is still too high, the time taken to organise is too long, it's all too much hard work blah blah blah It took 18 months of my life, and much, much effort to get the deal we got. It was seriousness and perseverance that paid off but somehow some people think it is now served on a silver platter for all to enjoy. I visited every Chinese embassy we came across for over a year and in 12 different countries. I quizzed ambassadors, buttered them up and asked for info. I got people interested in our cause so they could research the law, get us contacts, collect business cards...anything which could potentially be of help. I got friends of friends in China to call rental car companies and gov't officials. I worked my rear end off and anyone who wants to follow suit will have to do the same for quite some time to come, I believe, until more companies are willing to offer independent trips. We actually have the names of 2 other companies who agreed to let us travel alone, only they still wanted to charge the price of a guide (???) obviously, we refused, but it's proof that they KNOW we are allowed to do this, they just don't want to decrease their profits.

Anyway, very happy travels to all :))))

Congratulations, you mostly got to understand the system and inner workings, so true and very well said and written, China has many little kingdoms (provinces, counties, villages, towns, cities, domestic province & international border crossing, offices, departments, representatives, etc... etc...) and they all make up rules and regulations as they dream them up on the day. Certain things might work on specific days but the next day or a week later a different person is in-charge and has his own idea and agenda or has no clue at all what's going on....

One big major China hurdle is dealing with anybody and anything ~ the so called "face-matter" as they will never freely admit they did not know or are not aware of rules and regulations and any updates / changes, they rather say "banned, impossible, new government regulations". Best example, asking anyone for simple directions - they point in all possible directions to not admit they actually don't know in the first place.....

Mainland China is a very fascinating and very diverse country with great riding areas and destinations as long the routes go away from the coastal areas and big overpopulated cities.
Another one of my favourite China sayings = It’s easier to ask for forgiveness than it is to get permission.

Side-note: I know the feeling about emails and enquiries concerning China travels, ain't my business and got no affiliations with any tour company or travel agent, pretty good at getting things done myself over in the Middle Kingdom for some years...

Thanks Laura, reading your stories and explanations. And again, feel great for you to have met some nice Chinese and spent good days in China. This is what we want see, all travellers enjoy their time in China.

For for the self driving permit, Maybe we are too conservative on this, and didn't know what other guys are offering. On the latest Permit I had three days ago, it says clearly a professional people from tour company has to accompany the whole tour. If there is anything bla bla bla, the company and the company owner have to be responsible for everything happens. There is also a seperate agreement that we have to sign with China toursim bureau to further claim the responsibilty for all authorities,national tourism bureau, public security department, army head quater, customs and border securities etc...

Good luck to you all, happy travels!
If you need a hand, need a spare part or need a garage to service your bikes in this little corner of the world, on your RTW tour, visit us in Kunming Yunnan, southwest of China.

Hi RideChina,

Thanks for the offer of help and support, this would certainly be of great help to very many overlanders.
Yet what would be of even greater help, is if you could do some research and strive to offer independent self-drive tours. This is what everyone is in need of, more than anything else. Travelling through China without a guide.

If our permits distinctly stated that we could drive independently (hence, no guide needed), then surely you can also organise that for others.

Yes I understand the whole concept of 'responsibility' in China. Just last year an agent went to jail because he rented a motorbike to a foreigner without the proper paperwork. The foreigner had an accident and perished, and the agent was held responsible. I understand this onus of responsibility is probably the biggest hurdle to get over, yet I believe that if you go through the right channels the risk is severely diminished.

What would be fantastic, is if there were more agencies willing to explore the option of independent travel which, I'll stress again, is allowed by law.
All the very best
Laura

My planning from India to Uk took over 18 months. I had to skip China due to the phenomenal cost I could not afford. I was also informed that 5 person of same nationality have to travel together which is Bull Shit. These so called agents come up with such things once they feel or know that you are looking for other agencies. I had to transport my bike to Bishkek then. I feel sorry that I could not go through China. Laura73 now I shall persue what you have mentioned. Travel wuthout a guide.

Hey KayJay,

That sounds really great, please do keep updating this post, especially when you find a feasible option for travelling without a guide. I hope it doesn't take another 18 months of work like it did for us, and it did for you on your last trip!

If it helps with your search, we have the contact of other companies willing to let foreign overlanders go it alone. The details of Ricard you all already have, so why not try your luck with:

Kashgar Adventure International-Mr Taher- kashgaradvantour@hotmail.com

He quoted us for a Torugart Pass to Laos border trip, 3 motorbikes, 60 days, NOT Tibet and NO guide, 3000 euros per bike.We paid less with Ricard, so that's why we went with him instead.

We also had another company who begrudgingly admitted that the laws had changed in 2013, but their quote was the same as for a fully-guided trip. Something ridiculous like 6,500 euros per bike. We declined :)))

Now...where there are 3...there WILL be more. It's up to other determined and hard-working overlanders to find them ;)

My last point, and this is in response to all the emails I have received lately from people complaining about whatever quote Ricard has given them...
So far, most have been asking for a quote INCLUDING Tibet or had other specifications (ie. travelling with a dog etc). These are the things which will make the price skyrocket.

An independent traverse of China is NOT necessarily cheaper than doing the same in a large convoy. When you travel as a group, your permission permits are processed as one, so you actually share not only the cost of the guide BUT ALSO the cost of the permits!!

Travelling through China is about FREEDOM & INDEPENDENCE and not meant as a simple cost-cutting option. Freedom when travelling, for us, is utterly priceless.

Best of luck and very happy and exciting travels
Laura :scooter:

Hi everyone!

Guess what? We've found yet ANOTHER agent ready to help you cross into China independently :D
I know this has been a frustrating topic over the last months, especially as I've been receiving countless emails from disgruntled overlanders stating that Ricard, and China Tierra de Aventurra, still charge too much money for single, lone travellers. As Hendrick from TibetMoto will attest, this are prices set by the Chinese Government and agents (even the seemingly greedy ones) are making very little money.
How does 1.355,- EUR per motorcycle (with 60 days in China!) in a group of 4 sound to you? Pretty damn good I'd say!

As per usual I've posted all details on my website, as it's easier to share on all diff. forums.

Could someone pleaaaaaase keep me informed on their own crossing so we can all finally celebrate yet another successful independent crossing of this amazing country which-is-frustrating-the-heck-out-of-everyone??!!
Thanks! Laura :D

Travel Independently through China…Take 2! | Laura's Travel Tales

Thanks a ton Luara. This sounds great. Will look up your website.

I was one of the disappointed ones when the reports came about the pricing.

1400 Euro is expensive but not impossible. I am in Africa now but will be in Asia within a year or so. I anxiously hope that the pricing will hold and I can organize a small group to cross China. That would be fantastic!

Thanks for your hard work on this topic.

1400 euros is damn good against 7300 USD I was quoted for 2 persons on one bike from Nepal to Kyrgyzstan.

You are all very welcome. I'd just be ecstatic when reports start coming in of other overlanders crossing on their own.
Good luck to everyone! :))

Thanks for the great work keeping this going and updated Laura, much appreciated by many I'm sure!

Has anyone already crossed the chinese/russian border at Kraskino-Hunchun, which is close to Vladivostok? Google-earth shows a nice checkpoint... Is it possible riding thru there for us overlanders...?

Well myself and my wife have full Chinese driving licences.

Wasn't easy, but we did the tests, and have legitimate genuine licences.
Valid 6 years.

No guides needed for us then.

vette

Me and Dora drove from South-East China to Kyrgyzstan last year on a Suzuki GS125. 12,000 km and three months. No guide, no Chinese driving license, not the registered owners of the bike (only a letter of permission). The only difficulty was at the border, leaving China, but eventually got through.

https://plus.google.com/photos/10330...09263004099409

More info here:

Recomendation for Dual-sport Bike for Trip from China to Europe - Page 10

Edit: I'll make a new thread.

I want to drive from India thro China without a guide.

David what diificulty did u have leaving China ? Did they ask for a Carnet on entry ?

Japan to China
 

I am wondering if I can take a ferry from Japan somewhere to china and ride China with my own USA registered motorcycle without having a guide with me? I did not list China as a potential country on my Carnet, so I'm also wondering if China requires a Carnet?

Hi,

I have registered (and paid) to do a month long loop through China. I'm an rtw rider and am progressing up through SE Asia. I'm due to start the tour on Nov 6.

The long and the short of it is that the tour operator is turning out to be a really strange and abrasive guy. I was warned about him, but thought I'd take my chances. Looks like that was a mistake.

There's still time to get a refund and find another operator.

I have written to 'Ride China' twice, with no answer.

Does anyone have the name of a good tour operator in China?

Thanks.

Tibetmoto are very reliable and awesome. We had booked an independent trip which was cancelled due to another group misusing their trust. You may have heard about it? they refunded our deposit and were fantastic to deal with. Please tell them we recommended them

oops. We are Liz and Con from roostersoverland.com

info@tibetmoto.de (Hendrik)

Regular ferry sailings Japan to Yantai, Shandong Province

hello scootpilot,

Sorry, I just saw your message this morning. China does not recognize the CDP at all, hence the need for special permits etc etc

Seems changes are coming as per China Daily Newspaper....

Rules eased for foreign tourists on road trips
China Daily Newspaper 2015-09-03

China has simplified procedures for international travelers who drive cars through the country, making it more practical.

The ministries of Public Security, Foreign Affairs and the National Tourism Administration jointly released a notice in late August to manage international tourists' driving trips in China, effective Oct 1.

"Public security bureaus and tourism administrations at all levels are no longer issuing approval documents for international tourists' self-driving trips in China. Organizations should not require these documents to issue driving permits for international travel," the notice said.

According to the notice, all international tourists' driving trips must be arranged by a certain number of tourism agencies with approval licenses. Agencies must arrange tour guides to follow the entire trip. No individual trip is allowed.

"It is a sign that China's tourism is going global and becoming more open, aiming to link to the world," said Wei Xiao'an, China Tourism Leisure Association secretary-general, adding that the regulation is not for foreigners who reside in China but for tourists only.

"Under current policy, it is very complicated to have a self-driving trip for international tourists, including going through public securities and customs. The complex procedure makes foreigners' self-driving hardly possible in China," Wei said, adding that the new policy might be a signal to gradually nurture the market of foreigner's driving trips.

However, Wei said it is hard to predict the potential of the market. "It depends heavily on the tourism products and season," he said, adding that the notice is only a start for the market to grow.

"Currently, foreign travelers' driving business accounts for less than 1 percent of the company's inbound tourism business," said Yu Liangbing, deputy general manager of inbound tourism under China CYTS Tours, adding that many countries have complicated procedures regarding foreigners' driving, not only in China.

He also hopes that the future policies regarding foreigners' driving can continue to be simplified.

"For instance, if international travelers rent vehicles in China, there will be more specific policies to manage their trips," he said.

Web-link = http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2...t_21781620.htm

Lets see wich effects this "publication" on the pricing of the agencies will have.....

Wolfi
www.gritsch.at.tt

DavidZweig where does one get tgat letter of permission?

So does that most recent official announcement from the Public Security, Foreign Affairs and the National Tourism Administration mean we're back the square one, wrt escorts and the indi-travel loop hole has been closed?

Less docs means maybe weeks not months to organise, but as Wolfi asks, will tour agency prices drop accordingly?

Unfortunatelly i have to agree. No chances only with CDP

Well - reads everything back to group tours as shady tour operators must have stepped on some toes recently.
Haven't really looked fully into current requirements and procedures as doesn't affect riding motorbikes as a resident with a fully legal China registered bikes and required documents (driving license / visa / insurance).

Well at least the rules seems to be moving in the right direction, officially that is. I'm planning a trip through China in early 2016 so was happy to hear some clarification to the rules. I'll be checking now with some tour operators to see if their costs have been updated

Hi all,

Just wondering if anyone has any more recent info in regard to self driving/riding across China?

It was sensational hearing that it was done, then it was like a kick in the teeth a month or so later.

I am trying to organize to overland through China from either Laos or Vietnam, to be able to continue my trip through Mongolia in Russia.

Regards...

Maybe you can use ATA to china.ATA is Admission Temporaire Carnet.

yes the link say .Page not found ?
any other ? thanks for sharing!
S. :clap:

Now that the OP had removed the blog post on which she explained the procedure she followed I think we can consign this thread to the 'red herring' department. Good for her for pulling it off but it was a one off.
I have unstuck this thread.

David so you hired a bike from China itself......

Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk

Yes,it is possible. This is not problem..
The problem is.. how can I obtain a chinese temporary driving license?

That's the thing how to get a Chinese driving license

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It seems like there’s something wrong with the link in the OP message, because when you use the search function on her website, and you type “china” then you get all the articles, so they’re still there, all the info is in the posts called:

“Overlanding China: Self-drive and without a guide… It’s now possible!” (Oct 22nd, 2014)
“Overlanding China: what you need to know BEFORE you go” (Oct 27th, 2014)
“Overlanding China: what you need to know when IN China” (Oct 29th, 2014)
“Travel independently through China… Take 2!” (March 14th, 2015)

Much to my horror, the last blog post was updated in April 2015, telling about some @#$%&* in two 4x4’s who's behaviour led to independent tours being no longer available… :thumbdown:

Which is a real bummer ‘cause I was quite happy after seeing the prices quoted!

As I understand ATA is ie Admission Temporaire Carnet is for industrial goods or goods used for temporary import to china for exhibitions and demonstrations for business.

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Reviving this thread .. hoping that one of the 10k viewers may be able to answer the following question:

If a non-Chinese citizen (American), holding a valid six-year Chinese drivers license wanted to cross into China on an American-registered Honda Africa Twin (XRV750), what is required to bring the motorcycle into China temporarily for several months?

Thanks in advance!

David

I am sure HU has more experienced and qualified China travel advisors to chime in shortly but personally reckon the same rules as for regular motor-vehicle tour groups / individuals apply for transiting through China with an outside registered motorbike (USA registration). Your just lucky to be able to skip the China d-license issue as a holder of a valid six year license.... nuff said'....

China independent travel
 

Would really like to ridethrough China entering from Mongolia exiting through Pakistan. Any information would be gratefully received.
Snakehands

Facts are changing???



Just look here: http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...pakistan-95028

Riding China unescorted-alone
 

I rode about 3 weeks in China in 2017. I had good information from inmates Mika and Prince666 on ADV to help me. Prince666 told me I wouldn't find any rental shops unless doing a tour, which I don't. With his help I bought a new Shineray 250 in Kunming, China. It cost $1300 including a new helmet. I believe there are only 2 provinces of 22 that you can't travel in without an escort. Tibet and Xinjiang. And I think there the escort can be any national Chinese person. I didn't have a Chinese drivers license. I had an IDL. I was never asked for my license. And there were many check points in China. Below is my RR for China. The China trip starts about half way down the page on 3/24/2017.


https://advrider.com/f/threads/renti...1208680/page-4

A friend of mine just tried to drive with his bike in China.
And his girlfriend is Chinese and knows who to ask.
And she speaks the language and has contacts.

No chance to get in with the bike.
This is just right now, they tried since a few month.

I bought a bike in China because it is too difficult to take your own bike in. When researching several years ago, I read on forum that a Laura,her boy friend, and another friend did manage to take there own bikes through. But it took a long time to organize. They had to use some agency and, I think, a carnet. And they were restricted to a where and when schedule.


In 2011 I rode to Ushuaia. I met "Mika" in Buenos Aires. He has done a lot of global riding. When I researched China on HU I saw a thread about riding China, alone on his own bike. I commented to the post and found it was the same Mika I met. If you are interested in riding China alone, I suggest reading his thread posted below.


https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hu...na-i-did-82852


When I went to my second HU rally in 2015? I had given up on China and was wanting to talk to people about India and Nepal. After the final presentation was given I was talking with new friends. We were going to take a group picture. A man walking by offered to be the photographer. I heard him mention China while handing cameras back. I think he was German and married to a Chinese woman. And he had a business in north east China. He said if I flew to Dalian he could have someone pick me up and help me buy a bike. And it would be that simple. It's not what I did. But it renewed my interest and focus on China.

I understood that your choice was to buy one in china, and I think this is a pretty good thing if you want to ride there.

For me personally at the moment useless, because i take a longer ride.

I just wanted to give the information from my friend, who really tried at the moment riding in china and had no chance, not even with chinese support

By the way, we met 2013 in Mongolia.

If you have a Chinese driver's license, it is relatively easy to rent anything 4 wheels and travel anywhere (except Tibet) without a guide - maybe just do that for China and ship the bike on to the next destination? We (as China-based expats) drove pretty much all over China (except Tibet, and now more problematic around Urumqi) in a series of short-ish trips with no problem.

How much info did you u gather? .... I already did that in 1994. Foreign bikes, foreign riders, getting Chinese number plates, registrations and drivers licences, and riding across China without guides. Judging by the registration numbers they gave us and the fact that the head of Shanghai Traffic Police kept #00001 for himself (he put it into his desk drawer in front of my eyes, before giving us 00002 ans 00003) I think you might not be the first.

https://live.staticflickr.com/3214/2...08389d47_b.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/1540/2...fd0b6060_b.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/3271/2...10d3632e_b.jpg

I remember it well. Passing you and your friend in the middle of the Gobi Desert. The first thing you said to me after asking if I was Doogle "How's your wife?" I got misty eyed. And again 7 years later seeing your picture. She is doing fine now.

I see, you really rememberwell !

Good to hear that.:thumbup1::thumbup1: