Black Sea Coast Road: Georgia to Ukraine
 

Has anyone ridden this road? Any observations such as can someone on a European passport get through, is it safe, etc? I maintain a Russian multi-entry visa in my passport for work.

Planning a trip for next year.

Ta

Crossing between Russia and Georgia was covered in this thread.
Conclusion: You need to go through a third country as R & G are not on speaking terms.
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...a-please-35655

Thanks Chris, :thumbup1:

I might see if there are ferries that go from Georgia to Ukraine.

Cheers,

UKRFERRY SHIPPING COMPANY thats the thing Il'ichevsk(odessa)-Poti 2 days in the sea.
but mind it's easy to go from Odessa to Poti 'cos ukrainian side try to act european way. to get on board in Poti is difficult as hell. one must book a place a month and a half beforehand and it will be a miracle if you manage to make a deal with georgian representative. we didn't sucseed last year and had to go to stambul and took a vessel from there to sevastopol. the office tel in Poti is +995(393)219-98 the directors name is Malkhaz Pochkhua his mobile is +995-77406617.
month ago being in odessa we dropped in UKRFERRY headquarters and were told georgian side is fully "independent" in all means and ukrferry itself takes no responsibility for timetable and passenger list in Poti. in odessa the man in command is Andrey do not remember surname :) i belive he speaks fair english.

Just go long way around the Caucasus by the other coast road ... the Caspian sea coast road.

From Georgia, head East on the southern side of the caucasus thru Azerbaijan till you to get to the Caspian, turn north, cross into Russia and then cross back west to the Black Sea in Russia, North of the Caucasus

Have you ridden through Dagestan? I didn't think it was safe?

That's why I was thinking about getting the ferry.

I havent ridden through there but know a number of people from there. I do plan to ride thru there next year.

The information I have is Dagestan is not as bad as its made out to be. The coastal road is a long way from Chechnya (have been advised not to get too close to the Chechen border).

There is no such thing as a Dagestani, its a province made up of over 30 nationalities (predominantly Islamic along with the Christian Russians and Ukranians and Jewish Hill Tribes), 9 printed languages, and all get along OK without killing each other or trying to dominate each other. In general, the religion in Dagestan is a lot less fervent than in neighbouring Chechnya. The capital, Makhachkala, which is a mix of all of the nationalities is said to be a little on the "adventurous" side after dark, so make sure you are not lost there by nightfall, but apart from that, its said to be very hospitable - a bit like the wild west 130 years ago - only with internet ;-)

did that route round Black sea less then a year ago. Dagestan is safe if you find a place to sleep before dark. be ready to stop at every traffik police point. be ready to show all the documents six times in 200 km, to show the map of your trip and to give "a souvenir".
stay in Derbent in the center of the city or in Mahachkala. in mahachkala i can recommend a hotel wich is situated right near military depertament ("komendatura") on the backstreet of Governement building. it has really secure parking, all officials and buisnessmen stay there.

Thanks motobelka and colebatch. Dagestan might be an option then! :thumbup1:

I do have friends the Ukraine which I would like to visit. One more question if you don't mind? How far north should I travel before heading west towards the Ukraine? Clearly I want to give Chechnya a wide berth.

Ta, Bob

via azery:
Baku-Mahachkala-Kochubey-Neftekumsk-Stavropol-Krasnodar- Kerch' (entering ukr by 10 min ferry)

As mentioned by motobelka,

or if having ridden the south edge of the Caucasus you are ready for some variety, head north to Elista, on the Steppe ... and check out the only Buddhist state in Europe ... the Kalmyk Republic, and then back to Stavropol.

If you take the route suggested by motobelka, you will pass not far from the town of Terekli-Mekteb ... which is kinda the main town / cultural centre for the Nogai people (I know a lot of Nogai people for some strange reason - possibly co-incidence). It would give you the chance to learn about the hundreds of nationalities living within Russia. That area, the north side of a caucasus is very very dense with nationalities.

The steppe area there is very hot in summer ... July / August expect 40+ degree type heat in places like Elista or Terekli-Mekteb in those months. Better to be there either side of midsummer

New Border Limitations - Russia / Azerbaijan
 

Russia's border with Georgia as well as Azerbaijan closed today and will remain closed for all those who are not citizens of the CIS, a Russian-led grouping of ex-Soviet states, said a decree signed by Prime Minister Vladimir Putin and published on Tuesday.
The temporary measure is aimed at preventing weapons smuggling and "members of foreign terrorist organisations" from entering Russia, said the decree published in the official Rossiiskaya Gazeta daily.

So unless / until this "temporary measure" is lifted, there is no way to cross the Caucasus for us foreigners. The Azerbaijan - Dagestan route is now out of the question.

Thanks for that, with all the recent troubles I assumed something like this would happen.

Hopefully things will be different in a years time but if not I will modify the route.

Bob ... not sure if that means the Baku - Makhachkala ferry is also closed to foreigners. It is still possibly an option

bringing this topic back from the dead.....

i have heard that the borders are going to open at 1/3/2010
is that true?

planing to do a black sea round trip this year and i am searching my option...

tnx in advance

forget about it :oops2:
coast road from georgia to russia (via Abkhazia) is closed
The unpassable border is georgia to abkhazia. This border will not be opened in nearest 10 years at least. :censored:

You can go around Caspian sea :D
Europe - Turkey - Iran - Turkmenistan - Kazahstan - Russia - Azerbaijan - Georgia - Turkey (south coast of Black sea from Rize to Istambul) - back to Europe :scooter::scooter::scooter:
This is passable. But be ready to 200-500km legs without fuel stations on east Caspian coast. :helpsmilie:

Well yes, kind of, but no ... not really.

The plan was to open the Verkhny Lars border crossing between Russia (North Ossetia) and Georgia (in the middle of the Caucasus mountains) ... that was the plan. What happens in reality is another matter. Whether that border is then open to CIS citizens only, or becomes a full international border is yet another question. The only reason they are opening it (or planning to open it) is to help Armenia, which is Russias main ally in the South Caucasus, so it probably will be a border for CIS (plus Georgia) citizens only.

As for the Black Sea coast road, as Dean says, there now is no coast road joining Russian and Georgia. Abkhazia is now in the way. And you cant cross into Abkhazia from Georgia. Until Georgia recognises Abkhazia's independence (and that may take some time) there can obviously never be an open border there.

So I wouldnt plan anything just yet until we see what is the nature of the Verkhny Lars border. And I would be sceptical of it becoming some sort of open season for general travellers. That whole area is VERY militarised.

tnx mates ;)

I am currently checking my options for a ferry from Georgia to Russia. Unfortunately i do not have the time to go round Caspian sea.... so i have to find another way. It seems that boats are operating from Batumi to Sochi but i can find only hydrofil ones...
Does anyone knows if there is a ferry from Georgia (Batumi, oti or somewhere else) to Russia?

tnx in advance

There is only one "ferry" between Georgia and Russia ... its a Bulgarian ship called "Sredets" ... schedules are normally 3 or 4 times a month. But they only ever seem to have one months schedule planned up at a time.

The ferry sails to and from Bulgaria via Novorossiysk in Russia and Poti in Georgia. i.e. you can get on in Poti and off a day and a half later in Novorossiysk.

Its rumoured to be very "basic".

Try this web site:

::: INTERSHIPPING :::

Please return the info and let us know as much information as possible about the route after you contact them and find it all out.

tnx colebatchi

i will post my findings ;)

tnx again

Also I'm not sure about possibility of it.
The ferry you can take for sure is Trabzon (Turkey) - Sochi (Russia)
There is several ships and you'll have to wait in Trabzone no longer than 2 days.

then a ferry from port Caucasus to Port Crimea - 6 times a day (It will take approx 5 hours total with waiting ship-trip and customs procedure.

then kerch-sudak-alushta-yalta-sevastopol-evpatoriya-armyansk-odessa

tnx DEAN Rus

I have already checked the Trabzon-Sochi option but according to the

Commercial Sea Port of Sochi

the ferry its TOO expensive

~250€ (passenger+bike) for a 12hour cruise!!!!!!!!!!

I will check if there is another cheaper ferry

tnx again

there is NO way around Black sea !!!
 

if (I do not say when, I say _if_) kazbegi-verhni lars opens the trip can be as follows:
trabzon-poti-gori-lars-vladikavkaz-nevinomissk-kropotkin-krasnodar-port kavkaz
1432km with at least 1 night (closer to Lars, on Georgian or Russian side of border)

If not (this is much much much more possible) - much longer
trabzon-poti-gori-kutaisi-tbilisi-derbent-mahachkala-grozny-nevinomissk-kropotkin-krasnodar-port kavkaz
3 borders (6 customs), including 2 in AZ. not less than 4 hours for every border.
2275km and 3 (THREE at least, maybe four) nights. Kidnapping possible in dagestan and chechnya.

calculate gasolin+food+hotel and compare to the night ferry (hotel+food+delivery 3-in-1)

BTW: are your family ready to pay 20000 Euros to kidnappers?

Dean, vtoroi variant ne mozhno ... Derbent granitsa (AZ-RU) tolko dlya SNG grazhdanin.

Unfortunately the 2nd option outlined by Dean is not possible unless (like Dean) you have a CIS passport up your sleeve. The border between Azerbaijan and Russia is only open to CIS citizens. I am sure the Georgia - Russia border (if it opens) will be the same.

Basically, take a boat as Dean says. Black Sea as things stand right now, is the only way.

project abandoned at least for this year....

i will do it when (and if) the border will open...

i want to drive all those places not to take a cruise ;)

anyway... tnx for your help mates

Stelios

Took the UKRFERRY from POTI to ODESSA in June 2010.
No problem getting the ticket in Poti. Shedule was rather unpredictable.
Comfortable ferry :thumbup1:

Guy

I'm not sure of your rightness.
border crossing point yarag-kizmalyar have status "international/multiside" that means customs works with vehicles of any countries.
More to say: Belka talked to Iran trucker who works on Teheran-Moscow route for years. he makes teheran-moscow as a land route through Baku, back way by ferry from Astrakhan. The border near Derbent is open for non-CIS cars and bikes.

One more border crossing point (near railroad) Tagirkent-kizmalyar - can be only for locals and for train passengers. Need to be checked.

You can find the list of border passes (404 places) and it's status here:
Просмотр документа | Ð*осграница :stormy:
Sorry, Russian language only :oops2:

Hi guys/privet riebiata :)

We did a Round the Black Sea trip with my buddy in September 2009 and found the following solution to be the best compromise for our needs (we are Polish citizens).

After cruising in the Turkish far East (Van lake, Kurdistan) we got back to the Black Sea shore near Hopa, Turkey (just 10 km from the Georgian border), moved West some 200 km to Trabzon and from Trabzon we took a ferry called (not suprisingly) M/F "Trabzon" to Sochi. The cost was 150 $ for a bike + 50$ for a passanger, assuming sleeping on a mattress in the common area. This is how this ferry looks like:
Picasa Web Albums - Pawel - Round the Bla...

The trip itself takes 12 hours but the ferry was "arrested" in Trabzon for a night after embarkment due to the fact that the Sea terminal in Sochi was busy with another huge vessel anchoring over there. So, instead of spending a night on the ferry, we spent a night+a day and finally reached the harbour of Sochi at midnight... It would be difficult over there if we hadn't met a fantastic Russian biker Sergey on the ferry who hosted us in Sochi and later on our route :)

In general, I think this is the easiest and safest way to cover the Black Sea coast. Of course, in this option you wouldn't see Georgia and Abkhasia, but if you have some free time, you may always pay a visit to Georgia and then move back to Trabzon to continue to Sochi.

Russia (Port Kavkaz) to Ukraine (Kerch) crossing is fairly easy. You just need to be careful with Border Police on the Russian side and follow their instructions (which means: lots of going from one window to another to get a ticket, to clear your Temporary Russian Passport of a Vehicle, get your passport stamped etc.). Otherwise, it is absolutely feasible. And remember: bikes do not stay in line, so roll your bike straight to the barrier :)

Good luck and ask if you had any questions!
Pavel

Oh, I forgot to add that there is a couple of ferries that cover the Trabzon-Sochi route. Basically, there is one ferry per day, sometimes there is a maximum two-day break between depertures. We didn't book the ferry in advance, just came down to Trabzon in the morning, checked the availbility and we embarked on the ferry the same day afternoon :)

As far as I can remember, there was no beer sold on the ferry so don't forget to get supplies from a near-by shop next to the harbour :thumbup1:

Russia – Georgia Border to open
 

Some news of the issue :thumbup1:

UPDATED 27.12. Finns train Georgian border guards to cooperate more with Russia

Finnish Border Guard takes on task that Germans considered impossible
http://www.hs.fi/static/verkkoliite/img/t.gif

By Susanna Niinivaara in Tblisi

There are easier borders in the world than the ones that surround the former Soviet republic of Georgia. Some of the borders are not under the control of the country itself, as the South Ossetian and Abkhazian administration is in the hands of separatists supported by Russia.
Borders that are need to be patrolled include the border with Russia in the north (including borders with Chechnya and Dagestan) and in the south with Azerbaijan, Armenia and Turkey.


Helsingin Sanomat - International Edition - Foreign

27/02/2010 euronews orginal published 24/12/09 11:54 CET
Russia – Georgia Border to open - Diplomacy : news, world | euronews

Russia and Georgia have agreed to re-open their land border which has been closed since 2006.
After Swiss mediation, both countries have been able to agree a deal which would see the border opened by next March.
The Upper Lars checkpoint is the only land border crossing that does not go through Georgia’s Russian-backed rebel regions of South Ossetia and Abkhazia.
However, this move does not mean that air travel between Russia and Georgia will be
re-established. Following tensions over South Ossetia last year, Russia cut air links with Georgia.
Privately-owned airline, Georgian Airways is seeking to resume charter flights between Moscow and Tbilisi, and has asked the Russian government to lift the embargo. They have not received an answer yet. However, opening the Upper Lars checkpoint may be the first step in a thawing of relations between both countries.
Copyright © 2010 euronews

There is more

TRT - Russia-Georgia border to open soon

critical step is being taken to normalise relations between Russia and Georgia. The two states are due to finalise talks aiming to open the sealed border gate. The Kazbegi-Upper Lars crossing which directly connects the two countries will be opened officially on March 1, 2010.

And more

Georgia Border With Russia To Open March 1 | Asbarez Armenian News


MOSCOW (Reuters)–A mountain pass between Georgia and Russia, closed since July 2006, will reopen next week, Georgia said on Friday, in rare sign of cooperation since the former Soviet neighbors fought a brief war in 2008.
The Upper Lars border crossing through the towering Caucasus mountains is effectively the only land crossing between Russia and Georgia, the others running through the Russian-backed rebel regions of Abkhazia and South Ossetia.
“According to the agreement reached … movement through checkpoint Kazbegi (Georgia) – Upper Lars (Russia) will resume from March 1, 2010,” the Georgian Foreign Ministry said in a statement. There was no immediate confirmation from Russia.

About the border opening (From AFP):

The crossing will be open to citizens of countries in the ex-Soviet grouping the Commonwealth of Independent States (CIS) as long as they don't require visas for either Russia or Georgia. Georgian and Russian citizens will require visas to cross but will be unable to obtain them at the border.


Well, that means most of us can't use that border.
Too bad...

Thanks Chris, good info ... sadly it was pretty predictable.

Capo, there is no thawing of relations between Russia and Georgia, and realistically there wont be while Saakashvili remains in power.

The opening of the border is a recognition by both parties that the the closing of the border has hit Armenia very hard. Armenia has good relations with both Georgia and Russia and had been pushing both of them to open the border to Armenian citizens and trade traffic. Russia is Armenia's biggest trading partner and so needs trade routes. Armenia and Azerbaijan hate each other and that border is usually closed ... Armenia's border with Turkey is also closed. Ergo, Armenia needs to access the world via Georgia. The world for Armenia starts and ends with Russia. Armenia needs access to Russia and it needs to go thru Georgia.

Its because the only real reason the border was reopened was to help Armenia, that it was predictable that it would be a CIS citizens only border. You will note it isnt really even a border for the Russians or the Georgians, who will require visas to use the border ... Its really a border for the Armenians, who will not require any visas to use the border. If it wasn't for this Armenian question, I can assure you the Russian administration would have zero interest in any open border with Georgia.

we rode a fair bit of it
 

Hi There,

We rode a large section of the road from Sochi back towards the Ukraine after crossing the black sea from Turkey (Trabzon). Overall the traffic was shocking in late July and the surface was not to bad. However in the 400km (approx) that we did on that section of road we saw no fewer than 5 fatal accidents and numerous other head on accidents/minor accidents.. It seemed to us that when Russians go on holidays road rules apply even less than usual... quiet scary at times on a motorcycle..

On a plus side the scenery is really nice in the mountains, there are some great things to see and do in the area and it was well worth it.

We didn't cross over into georgia or ukraine so I can't give you any more information on that front :()

the Lars is open
the status is marked as "multi-national"
for those who read russian
that's the list of all russian border crossings Просмотр документа | Росграница

Well I for one have a cool pint waiting for any non-CIS-passport-holding HUBBer who tests this out conclusively for the rest of us!

This would surely be an incredible revelation for overland travel in Europe and Asia if it's true. I for one would go to any effort possible to avoid going through bloody Azerbaijan, and taking that damned Caspian ferry again.


Though I myself will probably not get the chance to try the potential new route for some years :(

Hey Belka ... I strongly suspect that "multinational" also includes "CIS only" ... since CIS is more than 2 countries :) Multi does not mean "any", it means more than 2. I notice this document does not have a category for "CIS only" so I suspect the pogranichniki just classify CIS-only borders as "multi-national".

I will be very happy to be wrong ... and will buy the second pint for the first non CIS traveller through there. :scooter::scooter:

It's issued as Road and multinational, as all other international border crossing points but you never know ???

Lars
North-Ossetia - Alania

So we can be sure when somebody has cross it ????
Will be there on August and can check but it's probably to late for this summer travelers.

Hallo,
two years ago me and two friends of mine made a full tour around the Black Sea from Bulgaria anticlockwise. We reached the port of Poti in Georgia. It was impossible to continue north because of the war. We went back to Trabzon and took a ferry to Sochi. From Sochi we drove south in Abhazia. We have visas for Abhazia as EU citizens, which you can get in Suhumi. In order to get a visa you have to send an email to Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Abhasia and get an invitation. The visa costs 30 USD. You enter Abhasia with the invitation and you go out with the visa. In this sense it is a permission to exit the country. The whole journey took 26 days and everything went well.
Unfortunately I think roads between Georgia and Russia will stay closed for a long time, including Verhni Lars which was a military road and was open for refugees

http://www.krokitoys.com/adv/ukr/78.jpg

hey Walter
Cis-borders are marked as "dual-national"
i don't get the logic but still
to know for sure you'd better write them Контакты | Росграница
there'll be an official answer

it will be nice if it is open, because I have heard its a really spectacularly beautiful road. Very steep mountains, very windy road.

I have a good idea (that I can't follow up on).:stupid:
Why doesn't someone who speaks decent Russian or Georgian telephone the border post or ministry in charge of border control and ask the people there if they will let non-CIS people through?:confused1: That would at least solve the "argument":thumbup1:
I would do it myself... But I don't speak either of those languages.

heh heh, you don't live in Russia do you? It would be quite difficult to find and get through to anyone in Moscow that has, or will give you, an answer, and then even when you got an answer you really couldn't be 100% sure...I could probably do it if I had a couple of days to sit on the phone, but I don't.

The border post might be easier if someone could find the phone number...

I think that should be 2 phone numbers (and 2 languages!).

Just because one country does or does not have an entry/exit point open for certain classes of passport holders to enter/exit, does not guarantee the adjoining country has the same policy or even knows of its neighbour's policy.

Here we have 2 governments not currently disposed to exhibiting much mutual co-operation. (The people are different!)

It only needs one side to impose a restriction to produce the absolute result of no-one at all of that class crossing.

Good point Tony...I think we need a volunteer to go down there and check it out!

thats a job for a 'true believer' .... i couldnt talk myself into testing it out cause I am too sceptical to start with.

Well, right now you are nearer than anyone else on this thread!

And failing you it's Belka next, by a couple of Km - and she is CIS !

Belka doesnt qualify ... we need to see a non CIS rider and bike go thru there!

O.K. Back to you, Motoreiter........... :yes:

er, yes, actually would love to head down that way but my pesky job will probably interfere...

open again !
 

As I read in local newspapers in BAKU (and also Turkiye), border is going to open this week.

Better to check officially and in a certain way by Georgia Community befor departure...

Guy,

I'm thinking of taking the same ferry as you did but from Odessa to Poti later this year. I've been to their web site for info but there is one bit of impotant info I have been unable to find, the price for 1 person + motorbike one way! Appreciate if you could let me know how much you paid.
Cheers

Marcus

Black Sea ferries
 

I took Trabzon - Sochi ferry a few months ago and it was $370 for one person plus bike. No doubt Odessa /Poti one (are you aure this is running?? It wasn't a few months ago) will be the same as they know you've got no choice with Russia /Georgia borders closed and hike up the prices...

Info about our trip is here Black C90

Ants

Border beetween Georgia and Russia
 

In 6 mounth ago I tried to pass this border with my friends. Unfortunately there was no way to get trough the border for non CIS passport holders. We had a lot of phone calling to the Russian and Georgian embassy via our hungarian-russian ambassador but it was unsuccesfull. We offered money also but didn't work.

After 4 hours of arguing we left the border and drove back to Trabzon.

Ps. Sorry for my poor English :confused1:

Batumi - Sochi
 

There is a fast hydrofoil passenger service (daily I believe) between Sochi (Russia) and Batumi in Georgia.

The information I was given in Sochi port a few months ago, was that the captain of the hydrofoil DOES take motorbikes on hydrofoil. The customs guys in Sochi could recall about 6 russian bikes at various times using that route.

Only the captain of the hydrofoil can decide IF he will let you and your bike on, and he will take a cash payment of about $200 for his trouble.

You wont be able to book a bike trip online, or even research it .... its unofficial.

Hi,

I plan for a Black Sea Tour this summer. The hydrofoil between Sochi and Batumi is for CIS citizens only (considering that the land border is open just for CIS nationals) or is it possible also for foreigners to cross like this from Russia to Georgia?

If not, only Sochi - Trabzon ferry remains....

Walter, why didn't you try to go to Georgia also?

Thanks,
Adrian

We plan to pass from Georgia to Abhkazia and over to Russian by land end of next July by motorbikes.

Information that we have been able to gather are all saying that you can do this only this direction, not other way around.

I was short of time mate ... Had to get to southern Turkey ASAP.

I believe its for anyone, as the Port of Sochi is an international border point.

But as I said ... the taking of bikes is "semi-official". 200 EUR direct to the captain plus a bottle of vodka should do it. Which I would add, is about half the price of the Trabzon ferry!

I also read the same here from another hubb member from last year (2010): http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...989#post308062

Do you have any other info? I'm starting to think to try the river Ingur border... If they don't pass me I can try the fast boat or the ferry to Sochi.

Look at this page of the Abkhazia Government Website visa and travel | The Ministry of Foreign Affairs Republic of Abkhazia

All a bit uncetain -
- visa by phone call ?
- Photos appreciated but not essential ?

Referring to the two final paragraphs, previously I understood Abkhazia did not require any Visa entering via road from RUS but they checked you had a multi entry RUS visa to ensure you could get out.

What is also unclear is if the Ingur River border is now full international or (as I read it was when it reopened) restricted to nationals of those two countrys only - or CIS.

As before, it's a long way for most of us to go to find out and could be a waste of an entry on a RUS double entry visa.

I have been in contact for both Georgia and Abhkazia officials and also Finnish officials on the area and this is what I have got:

• From RUS to Abhkazia border is fully open for all, no restrections
• You will need the permit from Abhkazia to enter, as stated in their site
• From Georgia to Abhkazia you will not be stopped
• You cannot enter from Abhkazia to Georgia, if you came from RUS and also if you leave through Abhkazia when coming from Georgia you are banned entering Georgia for 5 years

But of course, we will find this out eventually... will be leaving for this trip in just three weeks...

TP , the Georgia-Abhkazia border will function like the Serbia-Kosovo border. Since Georgia doesnt recognise the independence of Abkhazia then to Georgia, it is NOT a border there ... just a "checkpoint". However to the Abkhaz, it IS a border, because they claim they are independent. Georgians wont accept you coming from Abkhazia, because they will say you didnt enter Georgia at a recognised border crossing and have no entry stamp for Georgia (since in their eyes you entered Georgia at the Russian / Abkhaz border - which obviously is not a legitimate border crossing point in Georgian eyes, as they have no border guards there and no-one to stamp you in there). That I believe is why you cant go Russia - Abkhazia - Georgia. I ran into this problem at the Kosovo-Serb "border" a few years back. An "International" can freely travel from Serbia to Kosovo, but not from Kosovo to Serbia, for the same reasons. I remember the Serb border guard looking at the Kosovo entry stamp in my passport, and specifically saying, "you entered Serbia here, but that is not a valid Serbian entry stamp."

Going Georgia - Abkhazia - Russia however, poses no such problems. If you are already in Georgia, and the Georgians still claim Abkhazia, then you arent leaving their country (in Georgian eyes) by travelling to Abkhazia ... its not that its not an international border point, its not a border point full stop in Georgian eyes, because it isnt a border. If the Abkhaz will let you in there, and from Daniels reports they do, then there is no problem.

I was hoping to do a quick black sea loop later this year, counter clockwise of course.

I also have some "official" information from Abkhasian representative here:

Sochi ferry to Georgia
 

Hi,

As I mentioned in an earlier post I plan for a Black Sea Tour starting at 1st of July. The route is Romania-Ukraine-Russia-Georgia/Turkey-Bulgaria-Romania in 17 days. I plan to do this with my girlfriend, 2up on our Transalp.

I've just check the the Operator website regarding possibilities to cross from Sochi to Batumi or Poti in Georgia.

According to the website Commercial Sea Port of Sochi , the lines between Sochi and Batumi are for "For RF, Georgia and CIS citizens only". This means that foreigners are not allowed to cross from Russia to Georgia by land or sea.

The only options remains the ferry from Sochi to Trabzon which runs once a week and has no fixed schedule.

Can anybody confirm this? Any other news or information regarding the area?

Also, according to my calculation the distance between Kerch and Sochi is around 490 km. Is it doable in one day or is it better to find accommodation and do it in 2 days? How are the road conditions?

Thanks in advance,
Adrian

Hi Adrian,

You can make counter clockwise tour around the Black sea easier through Georgia and Abkhasia. You just need to obtain Abkhasian visa but it's easy. Otherwise the only confirmed option for you is Sochi - Trabzon ferry which is very expensive. For the rest of the boat options I don't know... We are starting similar trip in Aug but through Georgia - Abkhasia - Russia.
As far as I know the road from Sochi to Kerch is very beautiful but there is very serious traffic during that time in the year and the travel is slow so one day probably is too tight, but for 2 days you should make it. There is some info about that road in the forum.

Best regards
Nikolay

Gday Nikolay
 

When do you leave on your trip?

We will be taking a ferry from Venice to Igoumenitsa on either Wednesday the 24th or Friday the 27th of August and travel Northern Greece/ Turkey/ Georgia/ Armenia/ Georgia/ Abkhazia/ Russia/ Ukraine/ Romania/ Hungary and to be back in Germany by the 8 or 9th of October. Happy to meet up for a beer if our paves cross. We plan to make a base for four or so days in Tbilisi around the weekend of the 10th of September. We are two Australians (blokes) riding Australian registered Triumph Tigers.

Happy to hear from anyone who has a recommendation of a place to stay in Tbilisi or others places or must do roads around Turkey and the Black Sea.

Cheers

Brett

hi,
I will start the journey on the 1st of July and hope to be back on the 18th of July.

If you pass through Romania on you way back send a message, maybe will hook up for a ride or a beer

Have a safe trip,
Adrian

Unfortunately we will be a bit ahead of you. We are leaving on 14th or 15th Aug and I hope we will enter Georgia 7-8 days later... However we can exchange phone numbers in case I need to inform you some "surprise" on the road. :)

Adrian, if we have some free time in Romania, I will call you for a beer.

For must do roads in Turkey,please check the facebook page of our club and photos of bikers who has been here and done it.
So many files and photos.
Wish you all the best.
zeki.
personal page and photos
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=547244272

club page and photos.
istanbul bisiklet motosiklet ihtisas klübü | Facebook

Change of plans
 

Thanks for the information guys, but when I looked closer at the cost of the extra visas for Russia and Ukraine it pushed out budget alittle to far. So now we plan to return via Turkey/ Bulgaria and Romania instead.

Still very interested in any suggestions of a place to stay for a few nights in Tbilisi.

Cheers

Brett

Not good news from Inguri river border. here is Ilpo's experience: Caucasus Tour–Day #27 - Ilpo Juvander

He was turned back by Abkhasians. But as he does not speak Russian he could only understand that can enter on foot but not with the bike. Strange as he have permit to enter. I'm trying to contact MFA to ask but yesterday at 17:00 nobody was picking up the phone. As our plan is to start on 14-15 Aug I don't feel so comfortable with this crossing anymore. Also I understand that some Italians were turned back 2 weeks before Ilpo.

I already started plan B - investigating the possibility to cross on Nizniy Zaramag (S.Osetia - Russia) but there is even more unclear and probably not 100% safe.

Anyhow, what do you think about Ilpo's experience? Could it be that they are asking for bribe or insurance and he doesn't understand. I don't believe too much in that as Ilpo is experience traveller... I'm thinking of some political change there, as the president elections in Abkhasia are on 26 Aug. Stupid thing... I don't want to use the ferry Trabzon - Sochi and if we can't cross the border probably we will do totally different trip to Russia only from Ukraine.

please understand
georgian-abkhazian border is a kind of non-existent and unofficial. you can't stamp your passport there/ you can walk in but to ride in one must have Colebatch's negotiation skills and/or some spare money of course

you can try to load your bikes onto some truck BEFORE the border - they don't check local trucks and cross into abkhasia like simple tourists for New Afon ( sacred religious place ). try that 'cos Osetian way won't work anyway

It's non-existent for the Gerogians. Abkhasian consider it КПП Ингур. And they issued me and Ilpo a clearance permit that I can enter Abkhasia on that КПП: https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&p...yZDgy&hl=en_GB

I selected in visa application Ingur river border and wrote motorcycle and they issue a permit. Why they issue a permit if they do not allow entry!? Also it's confirmed that by on foot or bicycle you can pass there without any problem. It looks like the problem is only when you are with some vehicle... The option with loading bikes on truck is too risky. If they find the bikes we might have serious problems. It's better to try to speak with the guards but it looks like a gamble...

Georgia - S. Ossetia is indeed not possible: Порядок въезда на территорию РЮО | Министерство иностранных дел

loading onto a truck is the same as talk to them. if they find the bike be nice say it's broken and you can not fix the problem in Georgia you need to get to russia to the official dealer in Sochi. if they say no you'll just ride away.
for abkhasians you are a guest it's very important and official rules are secondary in this situation. ask for help and back it up with a smile and a sum of money. it's not EU and in a very little way it's Russia, in fact it's a no man's land so law there is the last thing you can apply to. be logical in the most primitive way.
serious problems there can start with darkness so try to get everything clear before the night

especially for those who are trying to understand WHY
russians do not permit to cross into RUS thru Caucasus. everyday life in Ingushetia traffic jams.

‪Пробки на Кавказе. Нива против Land Cruiser.flv‬‏ - YouTube

Abkhasia is NOT like this especially during holiday season but they are still highlanders in black clothes.

Just spoke 20 min. with the consular department of MFA Abkhasia. The guy there (I suppose foreign minister or consul) was extremely surprised that they do not allowed motorcyclist on the border. Started to asks the colleagues and made few phone calls and at the end he told me with sad voice:
"Sorry. You are allowed only by foot on that border." He told me, you know the political situation is complicated, etc, etc and he also just understand that the tourists are allowed only on foot. I get the impression that somebody else is regulating the border and these guys in Sukhumi are just administrators and understand the changes if somebody calls. He told me that this probably will change in the future but not in near future. So we don't have any legal way to enter Abkhasia from Georgia. Sad story...

Short briefing on our Black Sea Tour 2011
 

Short briefing on our Black Sea Tour 2011
- I shall cross post this in all the related topics on the Hubb to be seen by as many. If you have questions please ask and I will answer as soon as I can -
In the first 2 weeks of July 2011 we had circumnavigate around the Black Sea (Romania – Moldova - Ukraina – Russia – Turcia – Bulgaria – Romania). That would be around 18 days, 4200 km, 6 countries and 2 ferries.
The only downside of the trip was the fact that for foreigners (non CIS, Russian or Georgian citizens) it is impossible to cross the border from Russia to Georgia.
The only way for foreigners is to take a ferry either from Trabzon in Turkey to Sochi Russia, or the other way around from Sochi to Trabzon. The ferry does not have a clear schedule (it runs according to the information posted on the website of Sochi port once a week) and it’s pretty expensive (2 persons in one cabin without a window and the bike 16.500 Rubles / 650 USD). The phone numbers posted on the site are working and the lady from Kassa 5 (where you buy the ticket) speaks a bit of English.
Note: when you buy the tickets you must have your passport with you and bike registration.
Website of Sochi port: Commercial Sea Port of Sochi
In theory, according to some information I found on here and from various people, it is possible to enter Georgia, from there to enter Abhazia (which is according to Georgia part of their territory) and from Abhazia to cross into Russia since Russia recognise Abhazia as independent country. I also heard that for Abhazia you need visa. We didn’t try it thou.
We didn’t had any problems at the border crossings. Some were slow but you expect that. Entering Ukraine we were not requested to fill the immigration form and we were not asked for it on exit.
At Kerch/Krym Port when you buy the tickets you must have your passport with you and bike registration.
Entering Russia one had to fill the immigration paper (they have a bilingual version also in English which they handed to us on the ferry) and another paper for the temporary import of the bike. Hold well onto that paper since without it your bike shall remain in Russia. At least this is what I understand from the lady making the papers.
We crossed the border at Kerch/Kavkaz by ferry. It was a 90 minutes process on the Russian side, again no problems. The road from the border to Novorossiysk is good. Novorossiysk is a pain to cross due to traffic. From there to Sochi is was hell. Aprox 260 km of 2 lane slow traffic, lots of lorries and POLICE. Lots of them, with cameras. DO NOT CROSS THE WHITE LINE FROM THE MIDDLE OF THE ROAD. Although we were not stopped it was stressful. From the border to Sochi, 10 hours riding, with 3 brakes for gas and coffee. We arrived there Friday and as luck turns out the ferry was schedule to leave Saturday. Exiting Russia, we were told to be at 6 at the check point. Two hours later, with the border formalities done, we boarded the ferry. The passenger must go with the pedestrians and only the driver/rider remains in the vehicle for border formalities. No problems again. The ferry left after 8 in the evening and arrived on Sunday morning in Trabzon around 8.30. It was Sunday so the Turkish customs guys were not in a hurry. We with the bike were processed the very last after 3 and a half hours. The one with Russian cars paid some bribes. They did not ask any from us.
Note: for Highways in Turkey one must pay. You can buy special cards from petrol stations. The fines are pretty hefty. We did not and all the bells and alarms went of when exiting the highway.

Tried to enter Abkhazia twice and failed on both. There was no room for negotiations, tried that as well, so border is really closed for vehicles.

Both trials were denied by same man on the border.

During the time I was there, some cars passed through this border. They were UN refugee cars and some locals with Georgian registration number. No foreign vehicles.

At the border they were pointing the entry permit I had, pointing the motorcycle and then saying no no. Judging from this it just could be that if you had some unknown statement in there, it might be possible to go in.

At the border none of them spoke English.

I had only my name, passport number and bike make, model and registration number and obviously that was not enough for them.

Georgian side was not the issue, this was all on Abkhazian side. At Georgian side I was talking to one of police man and he told that there has been others as well during the past weeks who were not given access to Abkhazia with their cars and motorcycles. Same story as I had.

If one went from Sochi to Abhazia and then back to Sochi, and then with ferry to Trabzon, could he enter Georgia, since there is Abhaz stamp in his passport?

Abkhazians never stamp a passport. never-never-never. have no fear :smartass:

Ok, thanks...

I don't know if somebody posted here this link Грузия Info _ Инфа в дорогу -- Правила пересечения границы Грузии

It is official Gryzyan link with info of border crossings...

there is Q&A secton on the bottom

В: Я из Украины (России, Молдовы, Казахстана и т.д.). Хочу приехать в Грузию на машине. Каким путем сегодня это можно сделать?
О: Автомобилем, на сегодняшний день, вы можете въехать на территорию страны через Азербайджан, Армению или Турцию. Существует еще и морская паромная переправа, связывающая Грузию с Украиной.

I crossed the border between Russia and Georgia three days ago - direct south from Vladikavkaz, not sure what's the name of the crossing.
I've got Polish passport, not sure if it makes a difference. Ho hassels at all, Goergians let motorbike riders go without waiting in line :scooter:

Bart

That is very nice news :)
Can you please tell me how did you approach Vladikavkaz, from which city, road?

Hey Bart,

Is that real!? :) We are currently 130 km from Sochi in Tuapse (SPOT Shared Page) and we think to go back to Bulgaria through Ukraine. But if it's possible to cross to Gorgia we can go there... What Russian visa you have? Single or double entry? Can you send me your mobile phone as SMS on 00359885634893 because we don't have regular Internet.

Best regards,
Nikolay

The problem for me was that I had to go around Turkmenistan on my way from stans to Turkey. I found out through Polish adv forum that some guys just crossed from Goergia to Russia, so northern route around Caspian Sea was possible without coping with high ferry price from Sochi. So I thought that since Russia is the one making problems, going the other way should be easier. And it was.

I got from Volgodrad to Gieorgiyevsk in something like 3/4 of a day and made it to Vardzia in Gerorgia the next day, going through Vladikavkaz, missing Tibilisi and then going through some mountain roads.

Border crossing was normal for Russia - they checked temporary import documents, which were dodgy since prepared by Kazakhs and without all the right stickers, but I talked my way out of it somehow. Goergian side was super smooth - they let me go to the front of a line, then checked my passport (I don't need visa for Georgia), checked rego papers and that was it. Much easier than other borders I did on my trip - I've got RR here - Where is the bloody tiler? - ADVrider , although I'm still working on this particular installment. Should be ready soon.
I've got no mobile - just damaged my phone, so email is the olny way to contact me, although I said pretty much everything :thumbup1:

Thanks for answer.
I'm in lucky group of people that do not need visa for Russia, Georgia and etc :D

Hi,

What is your Russian visa? Single or double entry? Cause we have single entry touristic and if the georgians go not pass us we are in the middle between the borders. :)

Regards
Nikolay

We also passed Verhnyi Lars from Russia to Georgia 3 days ago as Bulgarian citizens. No issues at all. :) Also asked the Russians is it possible before entering border post and the guy replied "Of course". Great. Then some of the border stuff helped with the docs, one of them have Bulgarian girlfriend and at the end let us directly before the line. Absolutely unexpected for a Russian border. With Georgians even more simple: they let us overtake all cars and for 10 min we are in.

The Georgian military road is great, we stayed one day at Kazbegi. Now we are in Turkey some 1000 km from BG border and close to a full Black Sea circle without a ferry. :)

Here are some pics from the trip: https://picasaweb.google.com/1097777...ucasus2011Live

Well, that's great news. Now I have to go back :)

Ok we made the Black sea circle:

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-y...k_sea_trip.jpg

For 21 days we done 7000 km and 6 countries. The only ferry we used is Kerch - Port Kavkaz (Russia). The bypass of Abkhazia is about 1500 km or even a bit more, I'm not sure exactly how long.

Thanks to Racki for the prompt info about Verhnyi Lars. If he does not added that info in the forum we would not even try the border in Vladikavkaz and would turn back to Ukraine.

Russia to Georgia via Vladikavkaz - no problem
 

Hello;

I passed the Russian-Georgian border on motorcycle on the 3:rd of August 2012, going through the Russian town Vladikavkaz. Border passing was easy and took no more than 45 minutes (I am a Swedish citizen.) Guards where quite professional. I then continued on to Tbilisi on the "military road" over Caucasus.
I met bikers but unfortunately, I had no chance to talk to them. By the looks of it, I dont think they encountered any problems going the other way.

hahah nice one...anyway I believe maybe this could be a ' relatively' safer route?
https://goo.gl/maps/eYdw8mkouW72
:mchappy:

Maybe a bit safer but really boring.

Dagestan is one of the most culturally interesting parts of the Former USSR and well worth visiting. Makhachkala is much calmer than it was five years ago.

EO

well , I prefer a boring day to a troubled ones ;)
cheers