where to cross the senegal-river ?
 

Hello,

can anyone tell me where we can cross the senegal-river with a car? Coming from Atar,Mauritania, we would travel southwards to the senegal-river and then cross it somewhere to enter Senegal?
Any ideas.

Thanks,

Karel.

You can cross the river at a few points. I take it when you said "car" you have a 2WD, which leaves you with two options, Rosso and Diama. Rosso is at the end of the day the easiest if you are two or more people or your car is a little bit of a wreck. The formalities are pretty easygoing if you can speak French and can stay cool. As the road to here from Nouakchott is tarred all the way and on the Senegalise side as well its easy on the car. The ferry goes five times a day.
Diama was the traditional crossing point for years for car dealers but has gone downhill for several reasons, its gotten very aggressive and expensive. The piste is possible in a car in the dry season but if you are having any technical problems with the car I would give it a miss.
If you do have any problems in Diama or Rosso don`t worry, St.Louis is just down the road and it`s a great place to spend a few days and to get completly pissed.

Kevin,

thanks for your information.
Maybe I was not complete on my initial question : we want to cross the senegal-river with a group of 7 Land Rovers. The period will be end of july. Does this leave us with more options (crossing points)?

See you,

Karel.

Just bolt them together end to end and drive straight at it.

That many Landies can do anything.

Terry,

I guess this the african way of river-crossing. Any details on : bolting with stainless steel bolts or not? front to front or rear to rear?


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Terry Davies:
Just bolt them together end to end and drive straight at it.

That many Landies can do anything.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you are thinking of crossing in July then Rosso and Diama are the only really suitable options. By July the river level and water flow has increased leaving any other options dangerous. I'm not aware of any place where it is possible to ford the river, as it is too deep and too wide in most places. Depending on the amount of rain which has fallen in July the Diama route may be impassable too. Although it is possible in a 4WD the piste is sometimes closed by the police to stop it being too badly damaged. It used to be possible to take a smaller ferry upriver but I understand that it is closed now. Anyway you would have problems with the paperwork for the car if you didn't arrive at a recognised crossing. Not having valid papers for the car means that you could easily lose it if checked. If you have time and are interested you can drive through Mauritania and head south then southeast from Aleg and drive into Mali, cross the river in Kayes (bridge), and then head into Senegal. I did most of this route on foot and with an old Chinese bicycle about a year ago and it was well worth it. I can guarantee you you will meet **** all tourists but I suppose seven Landies will cause enough of a commotion anyway. If you are thinking of bolting the Landies together then I suggest you stack them on top of each other, at least the guy on top can see where the hell youre going to.

Kevin,

the crossing at Diama : is it ferry-like or the fording-way?
Do you have any information about travelling time (by 4WD) and road-conditions on the routes southwards from Atar to Aleg or Kiffa?

Karel

(Kar El ; in arabic)

The road from Atar to Aleg via Nouakchott is good tar all the way, so take as long as you like. There are a few harmless checkpoints along the way. If you are in a group the piste from Chinguetti/Atar to Tidjika is not that difficult and incredibly beautiful.

The crossing at Diama is on top of a small dam or barrage, it's complelty safe for cars. Leaving Rosso it's about 90km of piste to Diama and on the Senegalise side about 20min on a very good piste (Nov 2001). I wouldn't spend the night in Diama though, the place is plagued with mosquitos.

Hi Karel,

I've just returned from Senegal. All the information stated by Kevin is true. Be aware that, in July, the piste to Diama may not be practible at all. I've catched a day's rain and it was allready too muddy in some sections.
Also police and customs at Diama are rough and all try to get money from you. But even so I would prefer it, instead of Rosso.

If you need more informations drop a line

Good travel,
José

Hi Kevin!

Are you the Kevin who lives/lived in Bamako for a couple of years, the guy who has driven across the Sahara 20 or 30 times?

We were in touring in East Africa for 10 months and we met at least 7 or 8 people on seperate ocassions who crossed the desert with you. Is it true you live from selling cars which you drive down? I would like to cross the Sahara in a car this year. Any tips?

Thanks in advance

I have followed this thread with interest as I will be travelling this way in April going from Mori to Ghana via Guinea or Mali and wondered what route to take then and on the way back in early June. On the way out we will be two well equipped 101's and will have time and inclination to travel the most scenic route. In June we will be on our own and in more of a hurry, Advice on routes and diversions, would be very welcome.

Looking at the map, there would seem to be a number of crossings of the Senegal River, Ross, Bogue/Demer (presumably this is the Diama mentioned before), Kaedi/Silla, Sive/Matam? and Selibabi/Bakel. Are these all open and operating? If ferries can they take a fully laden 101 (3.6 tonnes). Is it worth crossing the river at all? Are there any border crossings between Mori and Mali near Kayes or do you have to go up to Kankossa?

IMHO, Senegal is nothing special unless you're going down via Bissau to Guinea - the latter can hard work and hard tracks in the F Djallon (tho never been), but for better or worse is a taste of untamed Congo-like Africa. It will be memorable in retrospect...

Otherwise go Mori to Mali

>Are these all open and operating?
Unless you categorically hear otherwise, I doubt it.

>If ferries can they take a fully laden 101 (3.6 tonnes).
If its a car ferry it will manage a 101

>Is it worth crossing the river at all?
Good question - see Senegal above.

>Are there any border crossings between Mori and Mali near Kayes or do you have to go up to Kankossa?
According to the 953 Kankossa looks most likely in a car. I'v always thought the area south of the kayes-bam road looked intriguing - lots of cig/gold/diamond smuggling to/from Guinea - there is a new sealed road now and wild west gold mines manned of russians (in my day 8-10 years ago). But there are some big rivers too.
I reckon coming back you will be worn out & heatstruck, so make it easy. Or come back via Alg - much more satisfying than the Atlantic assuming the 101s run cool.
Make us an S-File, I'd like to see some 101 desert action!

CS

Thanks for the info Chris. Very useful! I had wondered about the route north via Algeria but thought that it might be too much hassle to organise from the southern end. Also concerned about bandits & having to join convoys etc. or am I worrying too much? Will be pleased to send you a file on our return. We intend to take plenty of pics and DV

> too much hassle to organise from the southern end.
All you need is Niger and Alg visas plus a hat and water.

>Also concerned about bandits & having to join convoys etc. or am I worrying too much?
Yes buts thats normal until you get there. In Niger I'd head promptly up from Agadez to the border - it will be very hot anyway. Avoid Air tenere w/o others. Once in Alg youre safer. Avoid the TS highway (as in recent S-File) - a faster and easy way north is Route A7 then A6, a fab way is A2 to Djanet with A7 as an easy start. Then up over the Fadnoun to Tunis.
If that isnt the best part of your entire trip I've give you 30 gallons of DERV. Check out the vid from Matt Savage LRs

Looking forward to the multi media show.
Are you in ambulance tanks or the sleek racing radio bodies?

CS

Malcolm

Diama is WEST of Rosso, not east, I don't have a Michelin 953 map but if I can remember properly it was never marked very well on it, its possibly marked as "barrage" or whatever, anyway it's a doddle to find.

Regarding the other crossings, I don't know if the other ferries are working or not, I think the one at Bakel was running a couple of years ago, but most of the traffic crosses the river at Kidira/Diboli on the bridge now.

I said earlier on that the biggest problem is crossing the river into Senegal and not being able to do the paperwork for the car. If you have no laissez-paisser or no stamp in your carnet de passage then the car will more than likely be impounded. I sell cars in Senegal occassionally and where you may have gotten away with no papers a year or two ago with a heafty backhander those days are well and truly over since Senegals new President clamped down on corruption.

If you want to enter Senegal I would only do it legally at either Diama, Rosso or Kidira.

If you want a trip to see scenery, then I really recommend Guinea Bissau and Guinea Conakry (which is even better if youre on a bike), and the Man area of Cote d'Ivoire. You can either pass through Senegal and Gambia which are a nice change after Mauritania or cut through West Mali, I could suggest you go Kayes, Diamou, Sellinkegni, Bafoulabe (ferry CFA5,000) and then either the difficult piste along the river to Kita or the good dirt road via Manantalis. The road from Kayes to Bafoulabe is one of the most beautiful in West Africa and one of the least travelled. You don't need 4WD either, a 2WD with a lot of ground clearance (Mercedes 207) will do it to.

Many thanks for the info Chris and Kevin. Will do some hard thinking over next few days :-) Can you get Alg and Niger visas in Burkina or would we have to get them before leaving home? Do you need a carnet? Also, what is the longest stage between fuel stops on the Niger Alg route. Thank you for the offer of derv Chris but we still run our ambulance tank :-) on a V8. We can carry 300 litres petrol + a once only reserve of 90 litres lpg. Road mpg is about 12. and I have been assuming about 7-8mpg (2.5 km/l ) off road so the range, excluding reserve, would be about 750 km. Tyres will be Michelin XCL's, same tread as XL's. Not the best choice for the desert but I had a new set and thought that they may be useful in WA in the rainy season.

Kevin,

thanks for the info.

-If you are in a group the piste from Chinguetti/Atar to Tidjika is not that difficult and incredibly beautiful.

Do you have any waypoints on that piste?
How long does it takes by 4WD? What about refuelling and water?

Kar El.

Yep José,

What about the paperwork and prices for the 4WD's at the crossing at Diama?
Any suggestions about piste in Senegal? We have to reach Bansang in The Gambia eventually?

Kar El.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by José Brito:
Hi Karel,

I've just returned from Senegal. All the information stated by Kevin is true. Be aware that, in July, the piste to Diama may not be practible at all. I've catched a day's rain and it was allready too muddy in some sections.
Also police and customs at Diama are rough and all try to get money from you. But even so I would prefer it, instead of Rosso.

If you need more informations drop a line

Good travel,
José <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mal,
>Can you get Alg and Niger visas in Burkina or would we have to get them before leaving home?
Dont know, Niger in Ouaga and Alg in Niamey or Agadez, I guess. Someone else will know

>Do you need a carnet?
Of course not (RTFM ;-) that's why Sahara is great! (easy laisser p. in Niger)

Crikey, 300 litres for 750 km!
That will do you Tam Djanet (fuel at Ideles too), or Arlit Tam. Plus lpg.

I think you'll be out before the Wet wont you? Anyway, its tarmac up to Agadez.

CS

No I don't have a GPS so I don't have those waypoint things. If you can read a bit of German I understand that "Durch Afrika" by Touring Club Suisse/Klaus Därr has them.
How long? If you floor it you can do it in 18 hours, we took it easy and took seven days. For fuel you fill up in Atar (Chinquetti has run out of diesel a few times), and if you are lucky Tidjika will have diesel too, though I wouldn't really bet on it. For water I would take enough for the whole route, About 130km south of Chinguetti there is a small village, there is also a small oasis or two on the way but I would only use the water as a last resort.

In Diama the official charges are as follows,
Mauritanian side UM1,000 for a car, paid to customs, Senegalise side supposedly CFA4,200 toll to cross the dam and CFA2,500 for the customs for the laissez-paisser or to have your carnet stamped. This CFA2,500 is then CFA5,000 at evening time or weekends.

The problem with Diama is that it used to be the main crossing point for car dealers but things have changed. If you enter Senegal without a carnet the cars details are written into your passport. The old trick was that if you passed Diama and paid anything from CFA5,000 to CFA20,000 they would not write the details in your passport, meaning that you could sell the car take your money and run. (Normally you have to accompany the buyer to customs where he either pays the customs or leaves some kind of guarantee). This practise has now ceased due to the anti corruption drive of the new President, Abdoulaye Wade. However the customs officials at the border are not prepared to give up their nice little earner that easy and dream up all sorts of gimmicks, fees, charges etc to make you pay up. They have been known to get very aggressive if you refuse to pay and most people end out paying CFA5,000 to CFA10,000 per car to get through. I suppose if you are in a large group your chances are better and you may end up paying nothing at all. Maybe the situation will improve in the future but at the moment it's a pretty nasty intro to a great country. Don't panic though, cold beer is available on tap in St Louis only 30 minutes drive away.

Malcolm

If you leave Mauritania it was possible to leave via a town called Selibabi/Salibal(?) and on arrival in Mali in Aourou (spelling?) or in Yelimane.(August 2001). If you are passing Konkassa(customs) you don't pass through Selibali but on the way to Kayes you do pass Aourou.

Yo Kevin or José,

any comment on the route from Nouadhibou to Choum along the railway??

Kar El

Never done it. I know that it's possible but there are two stretches of dunes several kilometres long. As you have to stay very near the tracks because of mines I would think that it is not good because sand tends to pile up near the tracks ( this is definitly so up to Km47-50 which is where we usually leave to do the normal route. The only reliable people who I know who did it were in 4WD and said they spent most of their time in high first and second gear. I understand that after Km 50 you should stay south of the tracks because of mines, but don't take my word for it because as I said I've never done it. I've taken the train a couple of times it costs about UM12,500 with another 1-2,000 to tie it down, but it seems pointless taking it if you have a 4WD. The drive from Choum to Atar is also really worth it, so to is Zouerat and the area around it, but the piste is not that easy.

Yo everyone,

is there anyone out there who did the railway track from Nouadhibou to Choum by 4WD?
Any info is welcome.

Kar El

Hi Kar El,

>What about the paperwork and prices for the 4WD's at the crossing at Diama?
I've crossed at Diama, twice this January. In Mauritania the prices were: 500UM - Municipal tax of N'Diago; 2000UM - police tax to get each passport stamped; 1000UM - Duane tax for each car.
Once you cross the barrage, the Senegalaise side takes: 4000CFA - toll for crossing the barrage; 5000CFA - police tax to get each passport stamped (building on your right); 5000CFA - Duane tax for each car (building on your left).
I've paid for insurance 20.000CFA for 7 days.

>Any suggestions about piste in Senegal?
Careful with the mud, if you fall off the piste into the sideways, then it will be very difficult to get your car back on. If there is no rain, and the soil is dry, then simply enjoy the Dwiling Natural Park, that you are crossing, with hundreds of flamingos, herons, sea-gulls, cormorants, fish-eagles, monitor lizards, etc, etc....

>any comment on the route from Nouadhibou to Choum along the railway?
Did it this January. You can do it in day, if you leave Nouadhibou before 6:00 AM, and push it the all day. Or you can do it in 2 days without much stress.
Recommendations - keep south of the railway, because potentially there are mines to the north; don't drive too close to the railway, due to the garbage, bits of iron, glass, etc..; I'll hardly need 4WD, depress tyres accordingly, speed and momentum should do the trick; In the more sandy sections, you can jump to the railway and drive on it, but be extremely careful with the trains. I drove a Nissan Patrol, and we didn’t had any problem.

Cheers,
José

Yo José,

thanks for the info.

>I've paid for insurance 20.000CFA for 7 days.

José, do you have up to date info about the prices for insurance (and possible passport stamping)for a 4WD in Morocco, Mauritania ; since your recent journey over there?

After the sand of Mauritania we would like some mud on the way to Bansang (The Gambia) ; any nice pistes in Senegal you know of?

Kar El


BTW (in Belgium this means VAT) : are you the guy behind "no way José"??

>Just bolt them together end to end and drive straight at it.
That many Landies can do anything.

After desert driving ; there are no more bolts left in a Landie. Can anyone help me!!!!

Kar El

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by José Brito:
Hi Kar El,

>What about the paperwork and prices for the 4WD's at the crossing at Diama?
I've crossed at Diama, twice this January. In Mauritania the prices were: 500UM - Municipal tax of N'Diago; 2000UM - police tax to get each passport stamped; 1000UM - Duane tax for each car.
Once you cross the barrage, the Senegalaise side takes: 4000CFA - toll for crossing the barrage; 5000CFA - police tax to get each passport stamped (building on your right); 5000CFA - Duane tax for each car (building on your left).
I've paid for insurance 20.000CFA for 7 days.

>Any suggestions about piste in Senegal?
Careful with the mud, if you fall off the piste into the sideways, then it will be very difficult to get your car back on. If there is no rain, and the soil is dry, then simply enjoy the Dwiling Natural Park, that you are crossing, with hundreds of flamingos, herons, sea-gulls, cormorants, fish-eagles, monitor lizards, etc, etc....

>any comment on the route from Nouadhibou to Choum along the railway?
Did it this January. You can do it in day, if you leave Nouadhibou before 6:00 AM, and push it the all day. Or you can do it in 2 days without much stress.
Recommendations - keep south of the railway, because potentially there are mines to the north; don't drive too close to the railway, due to the garbage, bits of iron, glass, etc..; I'll hardly need 4WD, depress tyres accordingly, speed and momentum should do the trick; In the more sandy sections, you can jump to the railway and drive on it, but be extremely careful with the trains. I drove a Nissan Patrol, and we didn’t had any problem.

Cheers,
José<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi José

This coming year, I would like to drive down
to Saint-Louis in Sénégal as last year, I stopped in Rosso and drove along the track to
Bogue.

First, could you tell me if it is possible to
go back from Sénégal to Mauritania by crossing the dam in Diama as I have just an
entry to Mauritania on my visa. How did you
manage to handle the case. Is it possible on
you way back to buy a visa at the border or
do you need a multiple entry visa and where
can you get it in Mauritania.

Moreover, have you got some useful waypoints of your route of natural park reserve in Sénégal?

Thanks in advance for answering the above-mentioned.

Regards

Jean-Paul

Hi all,

To Kar El
>do you have up to date info about the prices for insurance (and possible passport stamping)for a 4WD in Morocco, Mauritania
My European insurance company covers Morocco and Tunisia, so I don't have info for Morocco. For Mauritania, I've paid in Nouadhibou about 22 Euros for 8 days, and in Rosso about 16 Euros for 6 days. The car was a Nissan Patrol with 9 places.

>any nice pistes in Senegal you know of?
The only real piste I've done (besides the ones inside Niokolo-Badiar National Park) connects Tambacounda with Matam. It has roughly 200kms, and cuts through the Ferlo Animal Reserve. Very scenic, the people in the villages were the most friendly I've ever encounter. It was a truly wonderful experience. I don't have the GPS waypoints, but with the IGN map and asking around in the villages you'll manage to do it in a long day, or in two relaxed days. Only an advice - in July / August the wet season will be peaking. I reckon the piste will be full of mud. With a 2 day mild rain this January it was already getting too soft, so expect additional difficulties in July.

>are you the guy behind "no way José"??
Hope not !!

To JPC
>Is it possible on you way back to buy a visa at the border or do you need a multiple entry visa.
I got my visa at the Mauritanean consulate in Lisbon, before the trip. It cost 30 Euros, valid for 1 month with unlimited entries. So I didn't had visa problems during the trip.

>have you got some useful waypoints of your route of natural park reserve in Sénégal?
Sorry, but no. The natural areas I visited didn't presented much difficulties. The Saloum Delta Natural Park you'll visit by boat (pirogue); in the Niokolo-Badiar NP you can buy the park guidebook, with a detailed map (besides it has so much vegetation that you can't leave the piste to wonder off); and in the Ferlo Reserve (see above) the IGN map and asking for directions in he villages is quite enough.

Good luck,
José

> After desert driving ; there are no more bolts left in a Landie. Can anyone help me!!!!

You should condition your Landie prior to taking it into the desert by leaving it out in the rain for at least six months so that the nuts and bolts rust together. Seriously, I'm not joking.

Don't know if this works for TLCs.

Sorry Jose but you along with me and probably anybody else who has passed through Diama have been ripped off. When you leave Mauritania you pay nothing to have your passport stamped. The car formalities cost UM1,000. When you entered Senegal the CFA5,000 you paid to the police was a rip off too, it costs nothing. However if you do show up in Diama and do not want to pay then you are in trouble as you don't have anywhere where you can telephone etc

Kar El, in Morocco insurance costs ca. DH380 for five days and DH470 for ten, but if your insurance in Belgium doesn't cover Morocco then I suggest you change your company as virtually every insurance policy "Green Card" in Europe covers Morocco (and Tunisia).

In Senegal the situation is different, the insurance is based on the power (chevaux/horse power of your engine). This horse power does not mean Brake horse power, but the older system as is used in France. E.g a Mercedes 240D (1979-84) is 72bhp but 7cv, a Patrol 3.3l 1986 is 11cv with a turbo it's 13cv. In Senegal there is one price up to ´7cv, one from 7cv to 11cv, and more over 12cv. I do not know how they work it out but you can use it to your advantage in that in most european Carte Gris the cv is not entered. Along with this the insurance is more expensive at the border (about 20%), and they do not usually issue Brown Cards. If you are staying in West Africa for more than six weeks or so it makes sense to buy the minimum of insúrance at the border (five days) and get a better deal in a big city. If you want to buy insurance in Diama you will probably be taken by somebody from customs or the police to a lady in the village near Diama to buy insurance. She will try to overcharge you but is easy to manipulate.

>You should condition your Landie prior to taking it into the desert by leaving it out in the rain for at least six months so that the nuts and bolts rust together. Seriously, I'm not joking.

Terry, difficult because I changed every bolt to stainless steel.
Anyway, a very practical approach to LR-technology.

Kar El