thanks for precious advices.

>Tagrera and Tin Tarabine: Are two wonderful places in the Tassili du Hoggar but there is no village at all.
hmm right I couldn't find them even at http://www.calle.com/world/algeria/index.html.
so then what do these names concern to.

>Maps: You better get some here in Europe...
yeach right, I would if I could ;), I'm working on that ;) they don't give such maps in a first found bookstroe.

>Does the marathon happen in southern Algeria in August? Will you have the back-up they have?
>Would you go hiking in the Tatry with a map of Eastern Europe?
>Without a vehicle or camel/mule how far can you walk alone with 20kg in 40 degrees+ with a 4m map?

hehe :) thats funny. that's all saint truth. I admit, it used to make me laugh all the time when I was
looking at that map 1:4m. :)) I could as well plan my trip on the globe. of earth. ;) But I don't have anything bettter around.
but still HAVE TO SEE (and hike) that mountain - Tahat.

> FYI you will not find maps in Tam or any other Algerian desert town.
that is really bad news. hmm. :(

> And as Sam says, it is not what you drink per day, but your reserve that is critical.
that is also the truth. :(, I'm trying to streach it all to make it possible, to convince myself it's possible.
Of course 20kg 40 degrees, witout help, no transport, camel etc. in the middle of tin tarabine is other, suicide.
But what I count on is that it is possible to hitch a little (for a little money) between oasis like Tahifest, Tazrouk, Ideles, Mertoutek, Hirafok.
Don't cars drive these roads ? Do they cruise on them very seldom ? Rarer then once a day ? From what I heard from guy who'd been there
for 4 years in 80's I should have a certainty they (locals) will take me onboard. I can't belive that nobody in let's say Mertoutek (or Djanet)
doesn't know how to get to those gravures rupestres. (those are also what I'd like to see). They are not very far. Of course I'd like also to go to erg
Tihodine,or tumb at N 24 12.6' E 06 46.8. That's out of reach. But Tin tarabine starts with (as seen from my "globe map" :)) Tazrouk.
I assume that Tin Tarabine is some around 100 km SE from it, where is that waterhole (on which one cannot rely). OK It's to far
for hike, cause (even If I reached and didn't get lost) I wouldn't come back. But there is that famous site of the Three Negroid Heads in Tagrera.
and so-called City of the Dead with fossils of human skeletons, prehistoric tombs ..
So is it all really out of reach without hired car - is that what you really think ? Maeybe there IS some other solution?
Crom !!! If it's necessary I'm ready to buy 50kg of watter in tazrouk ride it out in the desert with help of local peope with car come back and go
there again on feet ! :)
>You may find some local in a banger who will do it for less, but will he know where to go?
Is it really imposible to find those gravures without a precise map ?

> Even if you were familiar with this region, forget the idea or go to Morocco. Save the Sahara for winter when everything is easier. If you [...]
Thank for advice but
I've already been to desert in Morroco, forget: this is something I cannot do and don't have time in winter.

>Gomowe dzewa, as they say ;-).

what thaey say is Insz Allach. :)

I say Hakuna Matata :)

Tanit Baraket !
Bart.

( And if it comes about tatry then I say said I would ;) )

Ehmmm ...it is not quite so. Chris, being fluent in many languages, used a local dialect spoken in the area of the Bledowska Desert (situated in the south of Poland). It means "Rubber Trees". This phrase is popular among drivers and is used when you wish someone safe journey (and trees lining the roads which are as soft as rubber).

Hope it helps ;-)


------------------
Roman (UK)
www.polandrover.com

well Roman, it happend that I'm from Poland
and really do can read in Polish. ;]

Right Gomowych drzew you wish for a safe trip
but it's not a dialect but just siple saying as also is : "szerokiej drogi"

but thanks for explanation, anyway :)

Bart.

>Tagrera and Tin Tarabine: Are two wonderful places in the Tassili du Hoggar but there is no village at all.
hmm right I couldn't find them even at http://www.calle.com/world/algeria/index.html
so then what do these names concern to.

OOOOPS - thanks for sharing my opinon...
As an old Sahara-Crack I have been there several times (foot, 4x4 or camel) during the last 30 years!!! This area has fantastic eroded sandstone rocks and Tin Tarabin is a long Oued with wells, with or without water - it depends on the rainfall before.
City of the Dead??? I saw just to skulls and some bones near Tin Tarabine. Tombs are everywhere, even pre-islamic ones.


Have a look at:
http://site.terre.free.fr/sable3/sable3.html

http://shiva.istia.univ-angers.fr/~v...0/tassili.html

Maps you can by online:

http://www.daerr.de/Landkarten/franz...lgerien500.htm

http://www.daerr.de/Landkarten/franz...gerien200.html

Gravures: Are usually not on the maps.

> well Roman, it happend that I'm from Poland
and really do can read in Polish. ;]


Rodaku!!!!


> Right Gomowych drzew you wish for a safe trip but it's not a dialect but just siple saying as also is : "szerokiej drogi"
but thanks for explanation, anyway http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/ubb/smile.gif


Bart, did you notice the characteristic dialectic use of the soft consonant "z" replacing "rz" in "drzewa?

Rgds,
Roman (UK)

[This message has been edited by Roman (edited 10 April 2002).]

>As an old Sahara-Crack I have been there several times (foot, 4x4 or camel) during the last 30 years!!!

sula: thanks for bringing me down. I bow my forehead. (and all of you guys too)
You've been there, thus know how things are, which means I in very right place.

I see things are getting complicated, and getting this plan ready starts to be havey as the journey will be
itself. Perhaps I forgot to say that don't go there to rest, but to work hard. If I was to rest I would have
gone to sail on Mazury.

>This area has fantastic eroded sandstone rocks and Tin Tarabin is a long Oued with wells, with or without
>water - it depends on the rainfall before. City of the Dead??? I saw just to skulls and some bones near Tin
>Tarabine. Tombs are everywhere, even pre-islamic ones.

Right, that's what I want to see. City of the Dead - hmm I read this on some adventure web page. I like the
name but it mae be a blunder.

Thanks for addresses - very helpful.

Roman: I didn't pay attention to this, but let's just stick with principals :) the meaning, right ?

Jedni mowia dzem inni d-zem (rz osobno zamiast dz). - same thing ;)

Does anyone have an idea where to get some more info about origin of those preislamic thumbs ?

Bart.

ermmm sorry I ment tombs :)
thanks Roman.

I'd been wondering about the thumbs!

Hi Bart.
It is not impossible to go to Algeria in August. But, as Chris said already, the Sahara is not easy and not cheap. If you go to Djanet and the Tassili N'Ajjer I can give you this adress of an old agency. Maybe they know somebody else who likes to visit the prehistoric sites!
Hamou Dahou: timbeur@aol.com
or the Zeribas/Camping: bouaka.omar@caramail.com
In Tamanrasset there is a new Camping where you can find some contacts: "Village pour touristes" de Kadda Hiri: Tel/Fax 00213 2 934 22 58
or also at Tam: http://www.tarakeft.com/htm/votre%20agence.htm


Amguid Crater:
http://micsoffi.supereva.it/algeria2...2001eng.html?p

Old stuff in Niger:
http://www.ird.fr/bani/architec/document/TAC.htm
http://www.ird.fr/bani/inv_sque.htm
http://www.ird.fr/bani/bani.htm

Flights:
http://www.point-afrique.com/
http://www.point-afrique.com/alg1.htm
http://www.point-afrique.com/alg2.htm

Old stuff in Poland:
http://www.muzarp.poznan.pl/muzeum/m...str_algier.htm
http://www.muzarp.poznan.pl/
Prof. W. CHMIELEWSKI, University of Warsaw, Department of Archaeology,
Warszawa.
M. W. FILIPOWIAK, Director, Muzeum Narodowe, ul. Staromlynska, 27, 70-561
Szcecin.
Prof. Lech LECIEJEWICZ, Institute of Archaeology and Ethnology P.A.N.,
Oddzial we Wroclawiu, ul. Wiezienna, 6, 50118 Wroclaw.
Prof. Romuald SCHILD, P.A.N., ul. Swieczeweske, 105, Warszawa.

Waw - a lot of links...

Ursula from Zürich

Hi Bart - are you still here????

There's an Impact Crater Database:

http://www.image-contrails.de/algeria/index.html

Yes, yes, I'm watching.
Thanks Sula for the links. Some of them I've alreaddy seen (those in poland).
Flight are super but amiguid crater seems not work.
I'm looking on the impact crater page at the moment. (http://www.image-contrails.de/algeria/index.html) This is great. :) (especialy to me - I study astronomy). It must me immensely exquisite view (if I can say that:).
I regreat that it's not possible to see all interesting things in DZ at a one trip.

Bart

Hi folks,

Mailed the question about staying hydrated to a university guy who is doing research on sport and energy drinks. This is what came back (translated from Dutch):

"Primary thing to take care of when undertaking this kind of stuff is preventing dehydration. The classic drinks to rehydrate are quite well to use during the day. You do have to avoid to take in more then 60grams of carbohydrates per hour of effort because then the changes of getting gastro intestinal trouble get likely. So best is to combine a sport drink with just plain water.

I am not a specialist of motorised sports, but I guess that the protective clothing in combination with the high temperatures makes you loose quite a bit of fluids by sweating.
You can minimize this by:
* making sure you are well PREHYDRATED before you start the effort. This means drinking about 500 to 600ml in the last half hour before you start. Plus again the same volume just before you start. By doing this you get a 1 liter reserve of fluids in your body.
It is a good idea to ad some salt to slow down fluid losses of the body. This last thing goes basicly for all the fluids you drink during the effort.
* during the effort you can use a combination of the classic sport drinks and water. Do keep in mind that the sportdrinks have a about 40 to 70 grams of carbohydrates per liter and that you should not go above 60 carbohydrates per hour of effort. Would you go over this amount then it is better to drink just water.
Ideally you should drink so much that you never loose more then 2% of you bodyweight.
* Very important is the REHYDRATION after the effort. You should at least drink twice the volume then the weight you have lost during the day. Do NOT use alcohol or cafeïne holding drinks. They work dehydrating. Basicly you should keep drinking till you have to urinate frequently and the colour of your urine is light. As long as you have strongly concentrated urine you are in a state of dehydration, so have to keep drinking.
The REHYDRATION inbetween the daytrips seem to be very important to me.

Using ORS or ORL solution don't seem necessary to me. Water with NaCl looks like a good and cheap solution to me. You could for example take in some sort of NaCl pills with just plain water."
Peter Hespel.