Trans-Sahara trip (10 territories)
 

I am sure that all of this has been covered over several threads in the past but here's the plan...

It is my intention to do a "trans-sahara" tour in my overland camper based on a 4x4 MAN chassis (18ton) with some friends based in a similar vehicle. Outlined below is the general gist of the stages of the planned trip.

1. Ferry to Tunis from Italy and cross Tunisia towards Libya.
2. Enter Libya and conduct a complete tour of the country:
a. Travel down to Ghademes and Ghat
b. Travel across to Waw en Namus (L6 in Sahara overland)
c. Drive to Tazerbu via L7 down to Kufra
d. From Kufra, visit the Libyan side of Jebel Uweinat
e. Drive north to the coastal road and enter Egypt.
3. Drive across to Cairo and visit the Sinai peninsular
4. Continue down to Dakhla and visit Jebel Uweinat via:
a. 8 Bells
b. Kilf Kebir
5. Return north through the Silica Glass field, past Big Cairn to Siwa (then on to Cairo)

I undertand guides/permits/escorts are needed to tour the Gilf with your own vehicle, does anyone know a good local travel agent to deal with all of this? I know it has been done before.

6. Follow a leisurely route down the Nile to Aswan then ship to Wadi Halfa
7. Drive from Wadi down to Khartoum and then across Sudan to Chad.
8. Enter Chad from the east border with Sudan and drive across to N’Djamena
9. Drive north to Faya (C2 in Sahara overland) then fork off and tour the Tibetsi (Zouar)
10. Return to Faya and drive across to Fada and visit the Ennedi
11. Return south to Bol and exit Chad via the Lake route (C1)
12. Enter Niger, Zinder and then north to Agadez.
13. Follow the Tenere circuit to Chirfa and then enter Algeria (Djanet) on A15 (SO)
15. Visit a selection of the routes in Algeria outlined in Sahara overland, progressing across to Tamanrasset.
16. Re-enter Niger via A10 down to Arlit and tour the Air, then return to Agadez
17. Enter Mali from Niger and across to Timbukto, then on to Nema in Mauritania.
18. North to Atar using R11 and R10, then across the railway route into Western Sahara (old Spanish rd)
19. North all the way to Ceuta then ferry across to Spain.

I understand fully that this is a very challenging route, visiting all of the Saharan territories, but any advice on any of the legs would be good. The security situations are always up and down so you can never be too sure. As I see it, the main issue really is Chad, but again, I know it has been done in the past.

Thanks.

Hi,

I can only give information on a small part of the tour:
>13. Follow the Tenere circuit to Chirfa and then enter Algeria (Djanet) on A15 (SO)
pretty dangerous area (but not worrse than Chad) and entry at Djanet from Niger not permitted. If you try, you might risk to be expulsed of the country. Some Italians might have tried this recently, may be some body else knows more about.

15. Visit a selection of the routes in Algeria outlined in Sahara overland, progressing across to Tamanrasset.
>Djanet - Tamanrasset actually not permitted, may be with Gendarms escort.

>16. Re-enter Niger via A10 down to Arlit and tour the Air, then return to Agadez
Touring the Air: pretty limited possibilities actually due to banditery and uncleared land mines.

Northern Mali: avoid due to bad security.

Yves,
Thanks, I heard that Southern Algeria recently close up a bit to overlander. Is it just a case of getting a guide to escort (as I planned to so so anyway) or is it a complete no-no?

Entry to Algeria from Niger:
So is it the case that the only permitted border post is from Arlit to Tam?

Algeria to Niger:
But is it possible to do this in reverse (Djanet to Chirfa) accross the Tenere?

Hi,

>Southern Algeria recently close up a bit to overlander. Is it just a case of getting a guide to escort

The guide is compulsory anyway; Djanet-Tam is currently closed for tourism


>Entry to Algeria from Niger:
>So is it the case that the only permitted border post is from Arlit to Tam?
At Ain-Guezzam, you leave Niger at Assamaka

>Algeria to Niger:
>But is it possible to do this in reverse (Djanet to Chirfa) accross the >Tenere?
No-No

Best regards,

Thanks Yves, I need to re-jig thr plan for Niger/Algeria then.

Anyone got anything on the rest of the route? The key concerns are:

1. Libyan side of Jebel Uweinat
2. Egyptian Gilk Kebir
3. Sudan to Chad
4. Tibetsi and Endenni in Chad

So I would be deported if I showed up in Djanet (or even Tam) instead of In Guezzam? With Niger exit stamps in good order (but perhaps not from Assamaka)?
That's quite a trip, trans-african. Wish you success. Hope to do Chad and more of Niger in my lifetime, but right now the risk is not just being robbed (or worse), but also not being allowed entry.

As far as I am aware, atm it is possible to travel Westwards from, Khartoum to N'Djamena as far as legalities are concerned. Naturally, security is the major concern, but atm, Chad seems to be in one of the many "troughs" it experiences from time to time.

As for Niger, I am not too sure and I'd like some more advice from people if they have it. I heard that there have been a few bandit attacks on western tourists around Zinder and in the Air recently.

Any news on either Chad or Niger would be appreciated.

Re Chad I get the feeling it's thawing out a bit, so now might be the time (is this what you mean by trough?) - at least for a simple transit to Niger. Up north not so sure and never will be. Faya Ennedi may be OK (it never was that bad).

I think the era for such see-it-all trips in the Sahara may well be passed (and it did not exist for long) so I would be content with something less ambitious - say Libya and Gilf and Sinai over 2-3 months. You could achieve that without taking any great risks or visiting too dodgy areas and see a lot of amazing Sahara. A lot less stressful but still a big adventure and a great use of your truck.

Ch

Thanks Chris, and yes "trough" did mean a thaw in Chad.

What's your take on the Tibetsi? I understand an Italian couple were kidnapped on the way into Niger from here?

Also, when were see-it-all trips the thing to do so to speak? I would like to do a big trip, though I can certainly see that several smaller ones would be logistically easier.

Also, any info on the Atar to Chegga post would be helpful too!

The Italian couple I presume you mean 2006 - I think there is always a danger in such border areas, now more than ever. Commercial kidnapping in Chad runs back to the 70s at least.

see-it-all - well there was rarely a time when all 10 countries were accessible like they are now - the 70s and 80s I suppose, the era of the west-east crossings.

Atar to Chegga (RIM) you can manage - plenty of army up there now I am told. Chegga into Alg no one's done for 10-15 years and now more than ever it's a trafficing corridor. One of last groups (K Darrs tour coming from Alg) got turned over near Guelb and he spent a long time diligently tracking down the clients' robbed 4x4s (a cop in Mali ended up with one...).

Darr never got his lorry pinched and, if the old Dakar is anything to go by the good thing with a big lorry is they ransack and abandon it pretty soon - so you will get it back.

Enjoy Libya and Gilf, I would. Sudan and then across the Sahel in such a conspicuous truck is bound to attract attention.

Ch

Thanks Chris, I believe K Daerr crossed Chad into Sudan and was unscathed, so it does seem do-able.

Regarding Chegga, security aside, is it legal to cross into Algeria even with a pre-arranged guide to meet you, also, where is immigration/customs done (RIM and Algeria) by using that port of entry?

As that short corridor (Chegga to Alg) is trafficing, would it not be that you would be largly left to your own devices, surely smugglers are not interested in a western tourist when they have bigger fish to fry. Surely an Army presence in the area is good?
Do you have a link for Daerrs travel group from Alg to Chegga etc..?

Cheers.

crossed Chad into Sudan and was unscathed

Was that recently? I know on another tour long ago, coming into Chad from Libya they also got turned over. It's why he stopped doing radical tours.

I doubt it would be allowed to enter Algeria, that wilaya (district) is fairly strict on access.

... when they have bigger fish to fry
To certain groups tourists are the biggest battered halibut's going at present and most elements in Algeria do not want a repeat of 2003.

Do you have a link for Daerrs travel group from Alg to Chegga etc..?
It was in the 90s some time, a search on google.de may track it down.
Others also did it in that era.

Ch

Cheers Chris, still looking for the Daerr journey, but uncovered this homepage with info on all sorts of weird and wonderful Sahara trips!

SAHARA TRAVELS

That will be Reinhart M, one of the most experienced Saharans around, back in the day. You really have to tip your hat to these German-speaking Saharans, though many have given up on the place since 2003.

Ch

Indeed, some of the trips the Germans do are totally amazing despite all the odds!
Question: Did Reinhart M run his trips as organized tours in the Sahara?

AFAIK Reinhart travelled just with his Mrs and 2000L of fuel most of the time.

I asked him once there must be a book in it, but he said he never had any dramas worth noting. You certainly could not wander around like he did, even though most people imagine this must be what the Sahara is all about. Too many regs and crims now, although that still leaves most of the Sahara, as long as you dont mind the escort rules. RM and many old-school Saharans would never stomach that.

Ch

Two points really to note:
1. 2000l of fuel is very impressive, but how the hell did he manage it?!?
2. How did he fund these travels? Several years, he was travelling for a large part of it?!?!

But sadly, his type of travel is no longer possible :( unless you are very determined...

Sorry, I meant 2000km range - 2000L is a lot in even in a Troopie!

How? - I guess it depends on your commitment and interests.

Ch

2000l? I was gonna say, my MAN camper only has 1000l!

Hello,

Going from 8 Bells via Kilf Kebir to Siwa assumes you will have to go via the Aquaba Pass. You will struggle trying to ascend the pass in an 18 ton truck. I advise caution.

Roman,
Is there any alternative route? or would it have a change of being possible with an 18ton camper?

I assume with only 4 wheels MAN won't actually weigh 18T, it's just rated at that - probably 10 or 12 all up?

There is a way round the left side (Mushroom rock?) which passes into Libya briefly and is straightforward - we did it in 2004/5. From there up through the GSS the route that we took again passes back into Libya at times to avoid the worst of the dunes which can't be avoided as you near Siwa but MAN ought to manage it.

I wonder if with low tyres and enough grunt (240hp is it?) it might not crawl up the Aqaba. Nothing to lose trying. Then you can slide down the Lama-Monod Pass and up to GSS (did that a year later or so).

Whichever way you go around there, it's all good.

Ch

Sahara Overland ~ Gilf Kebir, Great Sand Sea, Jebel Uweinat
http://www.sahara-overland.com/Sfile...Map%202006.jpg

Hello,

There's none from the south of the Gilf, unless Andras proves me wrong.
And even if it's possible to reach the Great Sand Sea by another route (along the west side of the Gilf), your guide may not receive a permit from the army to follow it.

The area is the playground for all sorts of undesirables from northern Sudan and Chad. Their main target are the big trucks bypassing the Gilf, because the Aquaba Pass is not for them. Your truck would be another, even more valuable prize on that route.

I think you need first to speak to an Egyptian guide and discuss the plan with him.

Chris,

It's not the inclination that is the problem (from ca 840m to 890m above sea level), but the length of the climb - almost 400m on very soft sand. On top the Gilf it is safer because there is no trucks coming this way to chase. Having done this climb twice I could see why.

Anyway, have a look at the route marked in google earth:
http://www.zen59375.zen.co.uk/public...quaba_pass.jpg


Guaranteed!

Roman

... main target are the big trucks bypassing the Gilf, because the Aquaba Pass is not for them.

These big trucks from Matan and Kufra would go south of Uweinat directly to Sudan (and vv). Why risk getting involved with Egyptian territory, mines and terrain, especially now it's supposedly more patrolled?
And so a big truck is no more of a target than any other tourist group down here between JU and Gilf, except that it carries more stuff.
The Aqaba Pass goes to/from nowhere useful for traffickers and could be an easily manned bottleneck if the army put their mind to it (there is at least one other descendable pass from the Gilf west of Aqaba).

Lighter illicit traffic does cut through this corner of Egypt as many of us have seen; locals transporting subsidised Libyan goods to Sudan as well as less desirable people smugglers, to name a few.


It's not the inclination that is the problem...

It would have to be a clean run for sure - no restarting on PSP and no momentum apart from bouncing up and down on the seat!
When we did it with Troopies ten years ago, only I of 3-4 'cleaned' it, iirc.

This 18T truck might have more than twice the torque and tyre area of an HJZ but up to 4 times the weight.
With my '8T' MAN (5T actual) I learned it's all in the gear ratios as much as power, much like an old Series III or lame Hilux diesel. They can be amazingly agile once you have a 'feel' for the sand, which takes a few days in any vehicle.


Ch

Chris,

Not necessarily if I can rely on what we heard last October from the Egyptian soldiers stationed between Jebel Kamil and Karkur Talh. Besides, people smugglers tend to go north, not east to Sudan.

Gilk Kebir Itinery
 

Thanks for all the opinions everyone,

Roman (or anyone else),

I plan to spend around 21 (or so) days in the Gilf starting from Dakhla ending up in Siwa (coming from the silica glass field). The places i want to visit are(in no partucilar order here):
1. 8 Bells
2. Regenfield
3. Jebel Kamil
4. Karkur Talh
5. Jebel Uweinat
6. Wadi Sora

Does anyone have any advice or opinions on which route to take? or any waypoints? This would be very helpful as this is my 1st planned trip to the area.

Cheers.

P.S. Are there any good places to see that I have missed out of this???

P.S. Are there any good places to see that I have missed out of this???


I think the New Cave (or whatever they decided to call it) - not far west of Sora - is much more interesting if less 'historic'.
The guide will know the way. Then backtrack to Aqaba or go west to Mushroom, etc

Three Castles south of Aqaba is also a nice spot. And you must visit Abu Ballas on the way out of Dakhla too.

If you get on top, Lama memorial is worth a stop.

In the Gilf there is more to see than one can manage in one trip, however keen you are. Besides all the well known historic sites and prehistoric relics, there is some surreal geology in the places in between.

Make sure you read Libyan Sands and track down
EGYPT, CIVILISATION IN THE SANDS
Pauline and Phillipe de Flers (Konemann, 2000, (o/p)


Ch

Cheers Chris,
I know there is so much out there! It's just that with my camper, I may only get the 1 chance to visit the gilf with it (the carnet is so bloody expensive!) so I want to see as much a I can.

Also,
Does Sudan have much of a problem with people nipping down into Karkul Talh?? I understand Libya won't allow you to cross to 'their' part of Jebel Uweinat?

The route is not a problem, except for the point I raised earlier. These are well known landmarks (there are a few more places worth visiting, too, depending on your angle).

The distance between Dakhla Oasis and Siwa Oasis is about 2400 km. You can easily do it in two weeks, or three, provied you carry enough water.

What you have to bear in mind t plan your trip is that Egypt is NOT a tourism friendly country. For them tourism only means Shamal Sheik, Hurgarda, the piramids and suchlike.

Egypt is a police state and you are not free to roam. In the Western Desert any movement at all requires a permit issued by the army and the tourist police and the Ministry of Environment. And it costs an arm and a leg!

The permit is applied for by the Egyptian company supplying your guide and arranging for your military escort. This consists of one grumpy officer equipped with a toothbrush and a mobile phone to play tetris. There's more on the Hubb about permits to WD.

Hence, you do not need any special orienteering or navigational knowledge as your guide will only take you where he is allowed to go, day by day, and the officer will report your position each night to the army HQ using your sat phone, obviously at your own expense.

If you are planning to be in Bad Kissingen this June, send me a PM and we'll have a chat. I am interested in your MAN truck.

No, they do not. But if anything happens to you there, the Egyptians may wash their hands and the Sudanese will not want to know because you are an illegal.

Thanks Roman,
Sadly I won't be at Bad Kissinger this year, I will be up in Iceland at the time. Perhaps some other time we can rendevous with MAN. I am planning a trans sahara trip this season running til about June of 2011 then after that I am hopefully heading to the congo and East Africa.

Also, whats the situation on Karkur Talh? Are the sudanese OK with excursions over the border?