To Tent or Not to Tent?
 

I'm planning to ride solo on the tarmac on my road bike from Tunis to Djanet and back again early in March.

I usually stop in cheap hotels where I can find them, but I think on this route I am going to need to camp out in the DZ a few times at least, and besides I think it'd be quite an experience as I haven't done it before. I seem to recall reading in Chris's books that the main reason for having a tent is psychological, rather than comfort and protection.

Anybody have any experience or advice on the subject?

I am thinking mainly of:

Weather - Any chance of rain early March? What sort of minimum temperature could I expect at night? I assume there will be little wind at night(?)

Safety - It surely must be better to be able to see if someone's approaching?

and lastly - don't laugh - creepy-crawlies? Is this something I should concern myself with if I'm virtually on the ground? I seem to hear different things - on the one hand, that they're nothing to worry about, and on the other that snakes in particular are attracted to heat (such as me in my sleeping bag!), and that scorpions are nocturnal! Am I being a bit of an old woman, or is sleeping on the ground a bit foolish?! Although I doubt I'd encounter more creatures than I did staying a night at the fuel station on the Atlantic Route between Guergerat and Dakhla last year!

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ichapp.users.btopenworld.com

[This message has been edited by IanC (edited 22 January 2003).]

Hi Jan
I am smiling from one ear to the other....
Since many many years I dont "tent".
In march there is little risk for rain in Algeria, but I have always a survival blanket with me in case there is a wet exception.
I have never been bitten by whatever. I saw a few snakes and scorpions, but they were afraid of me. There can be ants, near wells you can get some camel ticks, look around for mice where you are camping. Don't sleep too close to bushes or grass, they are inhabited for sure! Look if there are traces/tracks/marks or a hole/nest around.
Happy travels!
An old woman...

for temperatures:
> choose a town
> click on history
> choose march 2002 and minimum temperature

http://www.weatheronline.co.uk/Algeria.htm

Thanks for your advice - I'm glad I made you smile!

I followed your weather link - that's a very useful site. I've discovered it's actually not that warm in early March.

My argument for the tent is more for a little protection against the ever blowing sand than anything else, but with the very restricted loads for a bike it's one of the first things I'd leave behind. However I suggest you do take along an insulating matress - not a bulky foam one, you can get thin metal foil covered ones that pack 1/3 the size of a foam one. On cold nights it's not so much the air but the cold soaked ground you need protection from. Be prepared that spring is the sandstorm season, it can be very unpleasant with or without a tent.

As for the rest, just pick places with soft sand and wind protection (as well as out of sight from the road). The many legged and legless friends stick to their own business as long as you don't camp in their territory (as Ursula said, keep away from vegetation).

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Happy Travels,
Andras

FJ Expeditions

No tent required, sleep under the stars!

Sam.

when on two wheels, rather than four, a tent can be a psychological as well as practical thing. if you're in a car, sleeping under the stars is ace cos you've always got somewhere to retreat to in bad weather or when feeling lonely. although I slept out a lot on the last trip, it IS comforting having a tent available.

on the route you plan, you'll find camp sites at Illizi (just south of town) and Djanet (centre and outskirts). they have huts that you can use. they may be other campsites elsewhere. the hotels at Hassi Messaoud and Illizi were full around 22/12/02.

weight/space-wise, I made a two man tent that suspends between two bikes. it weighs less than a kilo and is a handy groundsheet when you've had enough of sand in your sleeping bag.

enjoy

You might want to consider a goretex bivvy bag - light and compact, also wind, sand, insect and rain proof, and some even have space for a small rucksack at the head.

The trouble with the smaller ones is that it is a bit coffin-like when you are zipped up, and you can't easily keep an eye on your bike, etc.

Thanks for your advice guys!

I think I like the idea of no tent and a bivvy bag just in case, I'm going to go and have a look next weekend in my camping shop (unless anyone has any especially good online sources?).

RichLees - I did ask a question a month or so ago about fuel stops, and you said to make sure I visited the Bermuda Triangle - where is it, and why should I visit it? I've looked at your photo. I'm guessing it is HbG/4Chemins/Tin Fouye or possibly Square Bresson/Ouargla/Hassi-M?

Should I be able to find plenty of camping spots hard enough to ride a couple of kms away from the road without sinking? I swore after getting stuck repeatedly last year trying to get to Nouadhibou ( http://ichapp.users.btopenworld.com/...s/DSCN4411.htm ) that I'd never take that bike off the tarmac again! Maybe though its a bit like having a blinding hangover and saying you'll never drink again.

[This message has been edited by IanC (edited 27 January 2003).]

Something I always travel with is a 'bache' (small tarpaulin) with eye-rings, bungees and string and a couple of pegs. Takes no space, cheap and thoroughly practical.

Rain = tent (ish)
Sun = shade
picnic = sand-less ground sheet
gearbox dismantling = clean, dust-free work surface
Dodgy parking = less attractive lump

etc. etc.

Top kit...

Sam.

Sam - I started reading your "bache" post and wasn't sure if this was meant as a tent or a sand-mat!

It's hard to describe the effort, by yourself, to extract last time I got 290kgs of motorcycle sunk up to the pipes. I think it would be fair to say that I'm fairly physically strong, but it almost beat me. I even got Chris's book out of my luggage in the heat (literally) of the moment, and went to the "last resort" of placing my prized leather jacket under the back wheel, but it was immediately spat out. Whereas a piece of tarpaulin and some pegs, or even one just long enough to go under the front wheel as an anchor, could well be the answer.

I think it could be the thing to "kill two birds with one stone". I did think about trying to make a sort of "rope-ladder", of something like 2x1" battens at 6" centres with lightish rope threaded through.

If you see any reports of some fool trying to ride a Pan European on a beach through some westcountry sand-dunes in the next month or so, it'll be me testing my sand-extraction techniques!

I suppose I could buy a trail bike.

What sort of size are you talking about - 2.0 x 2.5m? or smaller?

[This message has been edited by IanC (edited 27 January 2003).]

Mine is about 3x4m - you don't really want any smaller.

The other good thing is that this highly technical bit of kit is available almost everywhere in the world. (so when it gets shredded during a particularly tough extraction, you can replace it without difficulty).

Makes me wonder about starting a thread: "Uses for a tarpaulin" - wild!

Sam.

the Bermuda Triangle is on the west side of the road between Hassi Messaoud and Hassi Bel Gebour. 100km north of HBG? I don't recall. we didn't stop this year cos the old man's pack of dogs came out to "play" as we slowed down. I rather think they like the taste of biker.

if you fancy a goretex bivvy, I have one available for sale. its the pole-less type, but if its just for "emergencies" ...

Hi again

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=34874
- thats what I meant with "Survival blanket"

Ursula

sorry - not canvas but PVC
http://www.kitex.co.kr/images/tarpaulin.gif

Thanks Sam and Ursula - I've become a real tarpaulin fan during the last 24 hours!

There's a very good tarp. factory not far from home, I've been there today and ordered a made-to-measure 3.6x4.4m in the dullest colour he had. Just the right size to cover my bike in those dodgy parking situations. Very cheap too I thought - GBP32 quoted for 3x4m.

Rich - I'll come back to you on that one -I'm going to have a look in the camping shop on Saturday hopefully, and familiarise myself with my options as regards bivvy's etc. Is there anything actually at the Bermuda Triangle, apart from an old man and his dogs? I only ask as I think you said previously that I should make sure I stopped there!

I haven't been the Sahara yet but have any of you considered using a swag. As in "Once a jolly swagman". I have one that can be pitched like a tent or used traditionally perhaps a little big although it fits on my GS nicely.
You can even get biker swags as well which are smaller and more compact that mine.
The folk at
http://www.montrim.com.au/swags.html
were great when I ordered mine and they will do mods as well.
If you are interested in seeing mine in action drop me a line

Steve

Wahey!

Another swag user. Always. The BEST bit of kit for the desert (assuming you have a car!). Even the locals are impressed.

Never go to sandy places without it (I actually have a double as well - very cosy).

Unfortunately, I haven't found anyone importing them to Europe, although I'm trying to find someone to fabricate some for an upcoming trip - it's not as if they are complicated to make. A good sailmaker (and, ideally, a swag to copy) and you are 90% there.

Sam.

hey Sam, I bought two more including a 7 1/2 ft x 5ft one from that mob in Alice and got them sent over before the trans africa. Worked out fairly cheap - Just got the covers sent and then got foam in this country. Brilliant bits of kit. Think its probably the same mob that made the ones you picked up in Alice.

On a general note I would have throught one would generally need a car, if one was slimmed down enough for a bike then I doubt it would be particularly comfortable. I can't see it having enough padding in if its small enough to go on a bike. Would have throught an inflatable mattress + sleeping bag would be a better compact option.

Toby,
You got it for the bike ones that's how they come. With an inflateable mattress to reduce size.
Pleased to see I haven't made afool of myself. I will be performing further heavy weather testing in UK on mine.

Steve

yeh could work with an inflatable mattress to keep the size down. Won't with foam - the 7 1/2 ft x 5 ft one involved an olympic style weight lifting movement to get it on to the roof rack of the truck. To big to go inside the vehicle. Single ones are a bit better but would present to much of a wind barrier I would of thought on a bike. As to heavy weather testing in uk. We only used ours on their own in deserts / dry climates or inside tents. You could start waterproofing them and trying to make them more robust but then its like trying to create a bivvy bag and it might be easier to go straight for a bivvy bag.

No mine is already water proof.
I used down in Wales last year and came home in the tipping rain no problem. It has two top sheets and you can pitch the top one as it is oversized for that purpose. I can send you a snap of it on my GS if you're interested

Stephen - I like the sound of these. I'd be interested to see it on your bike if you can send me a pic.

Cheers

Hi Ian,
sent tonight let me know if it doesn't arrives

Hi!

What exactly is a bivvy bag and how it works?

I'v seen pictures,but no one explains real purpose of it.

Note that i'm new to camping and everything. http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/ubb/redface.gif


cheers

jondoe

A 'bivi' (bivouac) bag is essentially an over-sack for a sleeping bag. You should only buy one made of a breathable; one way material - gore-tex is the best known of these, but there are now others around.

They are 100% waterproof (ie rain and ground damp can't get in) but allow the sleepers perspiration to get out. If the material didn't do this, the perspiration would condense on the inside of the sack, and then return onto to the sleeping bag inside, making it wet - and the person colder. You can sleep anywhere and you don't need a tent - soldiers have them as standard personal kit, not a tent (too bulky/heavy).

Great kit, usually around the GBP100 mark. You get ones which start turning into mini-tents - the 'hooped-bivi' etc. etc.

When I am in temperate climes, I use a bivi bag around my sleeping bag, and my bache (tarpaulin, for a little luxury/cooking under etc.). Lots of respect to Stephen for using a swag in this environment, but not what it is designed for.

One final thing (though not really Sahara related); you shouldn't use a hooped (or any type where the bag is away from the sleeping bag) bivi-bag below 0°C. Your perspiration will freeze on the inside of the bag, then melt as water onto your sleeping bag.

Sam.

PS For a bike swag, see:

http://www.downunderswags.com/catalogue/index.asp

Hi!

So,bivvy will keep you and the bag dry from condensation,
Could one sleep in it in rain with it,and be dry when one uses that overhead thing(some even got a moskito net)

A swag is like a very small tent with moskito net and some rain protection,and got's a matress in it.

Whats better,for sahara bivvy or swag?

generaly,what to take with me:
1) bivvy,and insolution mat or inflating matress,and tarpaulin for various use
2) swag
3) or a small lightweight tent+insilation mat..

What's the smartests thing to go with,considering weight,practicalaty...

What's an esencial
What about moskitos? I'll be going round the Med,with sahara deture of north Algeria

Thanks

jondoe

Great subject!!! Loved reading up on it.

Been experimenting with a tarp myself, using the bike as centerpole. Wasn't ideal.

Have been using the tarp principle even in serious winterconditions (-20°C). Is light, easy to repair, can be pitched almost anywhere,...
Only downside is that it wont protect you very well from a windfactor. Then a real tent or bivy bag is a better bet.

Not ure yet what I will take with me, tent of tarp when I ride around the Baltic in September. Guess an early storm in fall would give me a hard time if I only have a tarp with me.

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http://users.pandora.be/pieter.maes2/

Which is best??!!

The swag is best if you have a 4wd, and are going somewhere that will be 90+% dry.

Mini-tent with sleeping bag is just the best (most practical) for any conditions - nothing like as comfortable as the swag.

Bivi-bag and bache/tarpaulin best if you don't want/need the weight of a tent (and you know what you're doing).


The middle option will take you anywhere in the world efficiently, with only a small loss in comfort. So will the third, but you need to know much more about living in the outdoors (shelter/personal organisation/cooking technniques) otherwise it can get miserable very quickly!

Sam.

PS I always use a bivi-bag around my sleeping bag, regardless of where I intend sleeping. If nothing else, it will also remain completely dry (with anything else you put in there) in your rucksack, when you are out in the rain for a whole day...

Sam,

Great short review!

Think I will go for the third, bivi bag with tarp shelter.
Guess you also need to bring a ground sheet then.

What I also like about the tarps it the fact that you can 'personalize' your setup. If it only rains or 'drizls', and you have to use your tent, it almost always get so thight you have to sqeeze yourself in.
With a tarp you can make a set up wich will keep you dry while you still have a view.

But it is true it can get miserable quickly. You need to have some experience to be able to cope with less comfortable situations.


Where would you best buy a bivi bag? What are the things you look for? What prices are accebtable?

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http://users.pandora.be/pieter.maes2/

You don't need a ground sheet - you will be sleeping on a roll-mat, and your bivi-bag keeps you dry from below as well.

Any good outdoors shop will have bivi-bags - they're not complicated things. For us in Belgium, AS Adventure or Aventura are probably the best places (if perhaps a little pricey). For a basic good bag (must have breathable membrane, 'gore-tex' or equivalent), you will pay around EUR160+. Make sure the seams are heat-sealed with tape, and that there is space (particularly length).

I personally don't use the fancy ones with hoops etc. (if you want a tent, buy a tent!!), but I have colleagues who swear by them.

Sam.

I think (going back to my original question) I'll take a self-inflating type mattress, tarpaulin and sleeping-bag, and also a very small/light (2kg) tent such as this one (on offer @ £200 from £250) http://www.tauntonleisure.plus.com/T...lo/solar_2.jpg to provide some backup in case of sandstorms/mosquitos and also some privacy in the event I end up in a campsite anywhere, although I doubt I would wish to. I feel I'm doubling up a bit with the tarp and the tent, but I think the tarp will be useful for extracting bike from soft sand, covering bike in dodgy areas, as a windbreak against bike if need be, and also as a ground mat for various situations.

Not sure yet though how small the tarp will pack up, and how easily this little lot will stow on my pillion seat together with 10 litres of fuel - we'll see!

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ichapp.users.btopenworld.com

[This message has been edited by IanC (edited 02 February 2003).]

HI!

Ian,about the tarp,
In army we always had with us(combat equipment)a tarp aprox 2x2 meters wich packs in a roll aprox. 30x10cm and hooks up on ones rucksack.
A great pice of equipment add servs for variou things,like a rain coat with hood over head,tent(just roof),for carying varius things,cerying wounded person......great thing!!and strong as carbon fiber!completly indistructible(if you dont cut it with a sharp knife)

cheers

jondoe

Hi!

What to put under sleeping bag as an insulation?

1)foam mat
2)inflatible matrace
3)or a foam matrace

how does precicley foam matrace works anyway?

cheers

jondoe

You need to have something between your body and the ground to prevent heat-loss (the extra comfort is an 'unnecessary' bonus!).

I prefer the fixed cell mats (ie about 10mm thick foam) rather than the inflatable type ('thermarest' etc.) because you can't get a puncture, and then lose 90% of the efficiency. That having been said, at very high altitudes and with very low temperatures (again, not the Sahara!), I use two mats. Fixed cell beneath, then 'thermarest' on top, then sleeping bag, bivi-bag and me. That way, even with a puncture I've enough insulation beneath me.

It's not so important in the desert, take a 'thermarest' and a puncture repair kit!

Sam.

PS Don't forget to sleep on your bache/tarpaulin as well, the more insulation the better - and more comfortable!

Great thread - in fact there seem to be a few sub-threads within it.

I've been using a tent for so long - I guess I'd find it hard to stop using it. Although I think I will also take a tarp - as they are so versatile. And these swags look great!

Re: Thermarest - I've not punctured mine yet - and I've got a puncture kit in case it pops. I've also got the seat adaptor kit- which allows me to fold the Thermarest into a chair with proper back support. I've suffered enough long journeys and have found this back rest to be superb at the end of a long day's ride.

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Fuzzy Duck
(I'm quackers about bikes)

You'll never get a puncture while you take a repair kit! But the first time you don't...

Ortlieb has come out with a thermarest version of themselve.
The say it is quite strong and well protected against punctures. Haven't seen one yet. But knowing some of there other products I am guessing this might be a very sturdy and comy sleeping matt.

Pieter.

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http://users.pandora.be/pieter.maes2/