To RIM with an old land rover
 

Hello all,

I plan to drive my old Santana SII petrol from Barcelona to RIM during the month of august. Piste and off piste as well: Choum, Ouduane, Tichit , Neme and God only knows where else.

The Santana SII is a SWB, quite older than myself but with a rebuild 2.28 engine, 5 main bearings and new R.M. springs and shocks.

I do have lots of experience driving in the rain forest but nearly nothing in the Sahara, so since I'd love to do off piste would nicely appreciate some advice in terms of routes, water, fuel as well as other aspects of this kind of trip.

many thanks

You may well find that the motor runs too hot once you leave the coast. I'm not sure if Santana fitted a better radiator than L/R, but my 2.25 series 2 runs hot even in January in the central Sahara. Fitting an additional electric fan helps a lot. Fitting a bigger mechanical fan is wasteful on power and makes the motor run badly when its really cold (the carb tends to freeze over!).

Thank you Richard,

Both Santanas and UK SII's petrols were made almost identical. Santanas became different after the SIII. The Series IV were not as beautiful as the Sollihull progenitors but more reliable and almost, in a spartan way, comfortable. Anyway, I like the zen simplicity of the SII.

The electric fan is a great idea. Both the engine and I thank you. I better get myself a "kenlowe" HD from the U.K. .

Regarding carburators, I have the good old Solex as well as an small Weber. Any preferences for the Sahara ?

Regards

I took off the Solex and put on a Weber. I regret doing so for two reasons:
1) the Solex provided more power and you need as much of that as possible in the sand
2) the weber has a 'run-on' problem. After switching off the ignition, the engine still turns over. The problem is worse when the environment is hot and has been annoying in the Sahara.

Some people have complained about vapour locks in the fuel when it gets hot. I have put an electric fuel pump in line with the mechanical fuel pump and have never had this problem. I'm not certain the additional pump is the reason for no vapour locks, but its nice to have a spare already in place.

Its also worth checking the wiring as it goes through the bulkhead. Make sure the rubber grommet between the wire and the metal is OK. All the shaking about on the rough roads can lead to shorts at this point and to fires. The series vehicles are not very good on fuses!

Hello,
technicaly I don't see any vehicle related issues if the truck is in good condition.
I did many tours with an 109 IIa from 62.
If everything is fine it will not run hot, neitehr in Janurary nor in August. I suppose a hidden issue on Richards.
I added an Kenlow Fan to help reduce fuel consumption. But it shaked itself loose on corrugations and damaged the rad - so I remooved it without overheating as consequence.

Use 7.50R16 Michelin XS they help the not overpowered engine in soft sand.

I see the following issues:
- Hard to find travel parters in August, but driving solo will be very risky in the hot months.
- You will use a lot of water for yourself in August, with 10 Liters/day per person plus reserve your autonomy might be limited.
- Fuel consumption: expect an everage of about 25 L/100km so storing enough fuel and water will become an issue, especialy in summer.

If I remember correctyl I had about 80L of water plus 10 jerrycans with me on my 1993 Algeria trip in a 88 SIIa, we had to uprate the suspension.

Attention: parabolic front springs ave a tendency to breake due to torsion stress, take spares.

> I have the good old Solex
stick to the good old solex, Richard is right.

Yves
http://www.desert-info.org/typo3temp...f6c6110fbd.jpg

[This message has been edited by Yves (edited 06 June 2005).]

Very nice photo indeed .... but it's not a 109 nor a sII as you know .
I had a 88 then a 109 then a 110 200 td and , in the sand , the engine ran sometimes a little too hot , so I had to stop or slow (?) down for a while ( I had no auxiliary fan and XS tires with the 200td ).
With 300tdi now , never problem even in soft sand with 40°C.
Have a good trip , I'm sure you can manage it !
RR .

Thank you all,

I do appreciate your comments very much.

- So I'll order a rebuilt kit for the Solex, since after more than 40 years work she was leaking, and was very thirsty.

- I'll certainly check the wires through the bulkhead 'cause I have not done it yet.

- I'll add an electric fan. When the engine was rebuild diesel and not petrol cam, mainshaft, 5 ring diesel pistons, 5 main bearing block were used. As a result we got a diesel engine with a petrol head. So I got a 2.25 petrol engine with 9.5 compression. Therefore it runs a bit hotter. But is got more power.
- If necessary I'll weld the electric fan to the car so it does not move.

- Tires: the S2 is a short one and it comes with 205x16, if 750x16 are used I'm afraid it will lose power, like running with an overdrive. Is not it ??

- Tires are expensive, so I was thinking in using used road 205x16 Michelin X and take 2 extra. I was told used road tires are good for sand. ¿?

- Water: In the jungle it was everywhere, just filtered and drink it. For this trip I was thinking in taking about 180 liters for 2 people.

- Fuel: Yves, thanks for the tip. I was thinking in taking about 200 liters. I did install an extra tank under the driver's seat.

-Suspension: I got Canadian made Rocky Mountain 2+3 springs + ES9000 shocks.
The S2 does agricultural work, carrying sometimes 500 kilos of compost up and down the stony dirt-roads of my country.
So I think the suspension would be ok for the trip. ¿¿??

- Air filter: I guess I'll put back the good old and original air filter and leave the K&N at home.

Question: Yves: Where do you find the jerry can holders ?

Many thanks.

Hi Armadillo .

Id say that whichever vehicle you drive to the Sahara ,.. It should be one that you are ready to abandone it , should the situation arise.

specially a 40 year old car.

I say that 'cos you look that you take lots of care for your car ... pamper it .. etc.. but the sad-brutal truth is that every year lots and lots of beloved-cars like yours end it up in Mauritania,bogged down , abandoned ,etc ..

It happens to all kind of cars-people abandone new Land Cruisers- so go figure yours.

I say that ...cos It nearly happened to me aswell I nearly lost my beloved WWII jeep in Africa , when I could have driven any banger with the same outcome.

I travel much more relaxed , happier and enjoy much more the trip with a secondhand SeriesIII 109 (you can get those for 1000 euros in Catalonia , probbably less ) than with your pride-and-joy vintage Landrover which would be a tragedy if you need to abandone it.

Just my two cents.
Javier.

Just to add to the 'abandoning the car in the sand' bit: I recently completed my mission to sell an accident-damaged coupé in Mauritania, people here may remember me with my snow tyres a few months back, well the very first patch of sand in no-mans-land between Morocco/Mauritania saw much wheel spinning — the smell of that soft winter rubber compound burning was quite apparent — I was literally preparing to abandon the car right then, right there.

Luckily the guys living in the area, when they wanted to bargain for the value of the digging, were sufficiently interested when I said I didn't want to spend a single penny more, I was interested in selling.

The patch of sand could only have been 10m long, 50cm deep, I was amazed how easy getting stuck was.

I was even more pleased that I didn't do the desert epic this time when I met, on the way back, a friend of Adeleine Pane, a french girl who had been decapitated during prayers — a convert to islam — supposedly by a pair of Mauritanians she met while meandering in the desert, a few years back while making a journey to sell a Merc then marry in Senegal.

Interesting though, either way http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/ubb/smile.gif

Hello armadillo,

> was rebuild diesel and not petrol cam,

diesel and petrol wer identical on later engines. Old cam has more torque on very low revs - but a tendency to run on and pinking.

> .. So I got a 2.25 petrol engine with 9.5 compression.

hmm, 9.5 is high for low octane mauri fuel, less 90 ROZ is quite common outside the capital. So be prepared to pinking (especialy in summer), you might need to retard ignition some degrees. Are you sure that the compression is higher?

>- if 750x16 are used I'm afraid it will lose power.

Really not an issue if you have the std 1:4.7 diff and the gearing is like on LR. I used the Overdrive on my IIa frequently, engine is strong enough.

- Tires are expensive ...
when your budget is tight, think of 7.50R16 or 235R16 2nd hand ones (6 or 8 pr) - thats what we did on our first car trip in 93. compared with 205 you gain some clearing under the axles and you will have to dig much less in soft sand - hight is all (see Sahara-Overland book). And you will find spares on Mauri anywhere - but not in 205.


>-Suspension: I got Canadian made Rocky Mountain 2+3 springs

3 Leaf rear? I think it's ok when you travel very light (but 400kg of water, fuel + 2 persons will be slighty more then 500kg).

> leave the K&N at home.
yes, the old Oil bath filter is better for dusty environments.

>Yves: Where do you find the jerry can holders ?

We build them our selfs out of L shaped steel profiles. We just build flat frames, jerrycans were hold by a strap - simple, relyable and budget friendly.

Good luck, Yves

Many thanks all for your feed back, some very encouraging some not so. I guess shit happens.

Littering a new Toyota it's both an economical and ecological tragedy , not so with a Series LR they look good anywhere, besides they are cheap. Javier, to get blown up or killed we don't even have lo leave our country.

Yves, cool picture, thanks.

Compression; yes, it`s 9.5 because 5 rings diesel pistons were used in the rebuild of the engine. Normally petrol got 3 rings therefore less compression. The guy who rebuild the 2.25 told me it was perfectly ok, we shall definitely see...

750's: Well, I'll look for used ones, may me I even find the famous Mich XS. I just have lots of 205's in the garden.

Suspension: the 2+3 Rocky Mountain are thicker and theoretically stronger than other brands, as I said with 400 Kilos cargo they hardly rest 2 cmts. Again, we shall see...

Jerrys: thanks for the tip Yves, i'll follow the example.

One question: How do you keep the jerrys or the petrol from being stolen?

Thanks a lot all !

Hi armadillo,

>Compression.
unfortunately I don't know how the diesel piston looks like (only rebuid petrol engines so far), but the number of rings has absolutely no influence on theoretical compression. When they have a flat top, not protruding the block surface then the compression is unchanged - except the crank fitted has more stroke.

>One question: How do you keep the jerrys or the petrol from being stolen?

Until now no issue for me,but I was prepared: a steel cable with locks or bicycle locks.

Good luck, Yves

[This message has been edited by Yves (edited 12 June 2005).]

Thank you everybody for your comments and advice.

If you need a shelter in your way south just let me know.

I'm planning to travel from Morocco to Dakar in August as well. Given some of the trickier sections in Mauritania and it being the summer not sure if you're interested in doing some pistes with us.
I'll be travelling with 2 friends in a Toyota Hilux Surf, 3.0 l.

We plan to leave Barcelona on August 5th and drive down at about 85 kmts hour almost directly til RIM. And, with God's help end at Dakar. If you see and old green LR stock somewhere that's us. I hope we can meet somewhere.

By the way, I have been reading Sahara Overland. Great book !

thank you for the idea about taller tires,

I accidentally meet a rally pilot and he just gave me 6 used Pirelli scorpion competition 215-85-16. They were used two Dakars a-go by a local team. The pilot told me, since they are kevlar reinforced, they can go down to 1/2 a kilo.
The S2 is taller now but I wonder if the rally tires are too heavy for the vulnerable Land rover bearings and shafts.

best regards.

>The S2 is taller now but I wonder if the rally tires are too heavy for the vulnerable Land rover bearings and shafts.

Don't worry. 215/85R16 corresponds to 7.00R16. The bearings are more than strong enough on series Land Rovers.

The shafts are not so week (the Rover 10 spline shafts on the rear were a little bit weak for unsensible drivers). I never broke one on my SIIa 109. But I allways would care the rear spares with me because failure could be caused by an overload long ago.

Many thanks Yves,

Just about to leave, I try to rebuild the Solex and I brake the long spray part. Here, no mechanic familiar with this Solex, no parts available. So I got to go with the unpopular Weber carb.
I guess I'll meet somebody in the Sahara who can fix the Solex, then put it back in the 2.28.

Since the mentioned inconvenience " vapor lock" I visited the local scrap and got a small electric pump, so the gas will not get so hot in the Weber. I guess I just use the electric pump instead of the engine one.

The pro pilot also lend me a 170 liters aluminum tank, which I fitted in the already small rear part of the swb S2. plus the jerrys + the under driver tank I may have enough gas to open my own gas station.
Can I just hook up the big tank to thesmall electric pump to the carb ?

Again the smell of petrol in my clothes, like long a-go in my Ducati days. A neat glass of whiskey will do with the petrol smell.

thanks you all again !

accident

sorry;

we had an accident off piste bet Nouadi and Nouak; both my companions hurted; now LR in Nouak and two of us in hosp in Dakar; we got here with kind of ambulance; so rosso was easy

anybody knows for a long term parking in Nouakchot or how to ship LR back to europe from there;

trip was just great; then we relalex and then **** up;

clinique casahous; dakar 8215436

Hi !!!

Long-term-Parking a car in RIM involves 2 different issues.

1st is to find secure parking for the car itself. Pls note that as your passavant runs out .. not many people will be willing to keep a car in their parking (as that would lead to serious issues with the douanne)

2nd is to "discharge" the car details in your passport , so you can leave the country , ... that often involves paying the import duty for the car (in RIM is only around 100 euros) .Pls make sure that you know and understand all the process required to re-write the car details in your passport back , when you return . As far as I know there's no easy (legal) way to do that.

I did It, though ,in Nouadibou (as I SMSd you yeasterday) . In camping Baie Levrier , The manager Ali kept my landy for around 5 months. He managed to clear my car details from my passport , and -upon my return- managed to get them back in my passport , along a new 30 days passavant. (I mean He did that legally , via douanne offices , etc) . I endd up paying 300 euros for all the paperwork , duties ,and parking fees .

If you can afford that , and bring your car to Nouaddibou then , that's as best as It gets .. From NDB you can fly home via "Las Canarias" for around 130 Euros .. every other day. From Las canarias to mainlandSpain is around 30-50 Euros in Iberia/Spanair/Halcon.


BE VERY WARY OF LEAVING THE CAR SOMEWHERE ELSE ... as in RIM .. they will try for every way to get your car from you . -Without being offensive-

Its a country of car-related-scams , and a Series Landy is well sought after target.

Remember that -once the passavant expires- that car is illegally in RIM .. therefore It can (WILL) be confistated by anyone related to the douanne business. But they won't tell you that before hand ......


Id go for Camping Levrier .. or try in other Country.

////////////////////option #2

Sukuta Long Term Car Park ,

That's in Gambia , but is surprisingly near Dakar (only 250 km) . Easiest of the border crossings... and then you can leave the car in a propper-long term car park at Camping Sukuta. Its german-managed ,properly watched parking. They will do also all the paperwork for you (extensions of LaiizePasse , etc) . Really professional people.

Its MUCH cheaper (It was around 30 Euros/Month) and -in Gambia- you can leave the car and fly home , as they dont' mind nor they write off details in your passport.

Also .. .in Gambia you can SHIP your car back home , either in a RO-RO or inside a container (very expensive). I was quoted really reasonably by "Pablo Shipping Company " www.pabloShipping.com . I am quite sure he can find a solution for your problem (be Shipping the car from Banjul[Gambia] or from Dakar, where Hes' got a sort of agent)

. I am not sure ITs possible to ship back from MAuritania .. probbably not at all.


Good Luck Luis and hope your mate gets better soon. Sure things looks much more promissing after a few days. Meanwhile , Try to enjoy Dakar.. Its got lots of places to see/ things to do . Really interesting City.

Javier

Thank you brother !

That,s great information.
Not easy to enjoy Dakar,at this time,my mate is in bed with badly broken femur. I thank,s God we made it to Nouakchott since I was the only not hurt but had not idea how the gps works. The other pal was repatriated to his country after getting to NKCHTT, so I guess I gotta do the parking thing solo, where ever it happens.

Fascinating merciless Black Africa is a great place to be after mistic deathly Sahara

Al.la Akbar

again,many thanks !

My pal is slowly getting better after a 6 hour operation, 3 bags of African blood, and great care in Casahous Clinic, Dakar. Soon he,ll fly back home. In case of an accident in Senegal or even RIM, That,s a good clinic to go, great professionals and comfortable ambulances and not expensive. Owner is French so food is quite good. Too bad we gotta go.

Following Javier idea I may drive back to Nouadibou (or to Gambia )to leave the land rover in a long term parking.

If is there anybody who goes to any of those two destinations soon I,d like to join. I,m in Dakar and my LR is in Nouakchott.

Lluis and Chez, Casahous Clinic, room 9, Dakar, Tel +221 8215436/8424524

Hi Lluis !!! Great to hear your doing well.

Regarding leaving your car over there...

All depends on for how long you wish to leave your car over there.

Nouadibou (Camping Levrier ) seems OK for a few months. Somehow pricey (300 Eur including Douannes "fees" ) but efficient .. and more convenient , as you got your landy still in RIM
The problem I found was that ALI was constantly inventing problems / issues /laws/etc.. ... to force me to sell him my car..while I was in Spain , but at the end of the day .. I got my car back .. and in perfect condition.


However ... in Gambia you can leave your car propperly , in a German ruled camping , with fixed prices , no surprises later ,trustworthy people , and somehow more secure and with less "Mauritanian TRicks" .

You can fly home from Banjul (That's Gambia for 225 Euros to Las Palmas/Madrid Every Trhuday -Jueves-) with Spanair A340 / MD88 -ask in Senegambia Hotel desk for "Club Vacaciones"

Alternatively you can fly las Palmas from Nouadibou for 47.000 UM (around 130 EUR) 3 days a Week with Air Mauritania -B737

If you intend to leave the car more than a couple months I d definitely go for Sukuta's parking in Gambia.


HAve a nice day

Javier

[This message has been edited by javierCarrion (edited 27 August 2005).]

Javier, thanks a lot.

Mr Baba, head of Rosso border, no way did let me get in-to Senegal, unless I paid too much for a company til Gambia. I was alone, in no hurry, with plenty of time for unsuccessful negotiations. So I went back to RIM, which I missed so much anyway. Then I meet some Mauritanians in a HDJ 80 who did think we were crazy for going off piste with an old LR, but since our accident, (they said) was in Nouakchott news, they wanted to put together an small desert trip in the behalf of my -by then back in their respective countries- wounded companions. So I did spend my last three days with those local desert lovers, driving and camping in their families land (or sand) It was a great goodbye.
At the end I left the S2 at a house of an Spaniard who lives at Nouakchott.
Pipi Lankous used to say : " if you leave something behind it's because you gotta go back."

After this experience i can say:
- Sahara Overland was an almost essential source of information. Thanks Mr Scott and company !
- A home made shadow over the vehicle really makes a difference. It keeps it much cooler.
- The already used 750's kevlar reinforced pneumatics were great. Ask your local rally team for used pneumatics.
- Extra H.D. electric fan was essential to keep the vehicle working fine. At least during this August - September.
- An old Land Rover, if previously carefully checked, can slowly and quite safely go to the same places than a modern 4x4 with a fraction of the money.

Thank you all for your help an advice !

Hello,
I hope you and your friend are ok after the accident.
I have a Land Rover Series III and I'm planning a trip to Mauri and Mali.
I understand your Series II is equiped with parabolic springs from Rocky Mountain. As I'm planning to upgrade the springs of my SIII I would like to know your oppinion about those springs.
Best Regards
S Braz

S Braz, thank you for asking. My friend is not yet able to walk and is slowly recovering, amazingly, itching to go back to the Sahara. God is merciful with the fools.

We did upgrade the springs cause people with LR Santana experience told us they get broken under very heavy loads in hard conditions. We chose RM couse they got good reputation and they were as cheap as the local Santana paras. The RM performed very nice, very comfortable under heavy load, about 900 kilos.
We even helped many Mauros to get unstuck or carry their stuff to the local market.

The main "inconvenience" was the low power of the engine, which i later learned, some people solve adding 2 or 3 psi of propane to the mix (in case of Diesel). Therefore more power and more economy. I'll try to get more info about it.

good luck !

Hi !

We plan to go back to Rim. Fly from Spain to Nkchtt, get the vehicle ready, which is still there after the accident, and drive towards the interior.

Anybody knows alternative routes to Tidjikja and Tichit from Nkchtt avoiding Atar ?

This time we shall get travel insurance.

Thanks

Thanks, José Brito for your help ! We appreciate it very much, beautiful.

We are back from RIM, we visited, among otrer places Tidjikja, Tichitt, Rachid, Chingetti ( from south dunes)

We got quite confused bet Tidjikja and Chingetti because a little printing error in Sahara Overland II, and had no idea about updating data web page. Probably it'd be a good idea to include a separate paper in the book with the right way point --or points if necessary --

The 1962 land rover had no major problems, just: alternator failure, two broken spring bolts, overheating, massive petrol drinking. We were 3 people, total 950 kilos cargo (inc us)

Only petrol available at: Nktt, Atar Chingueti Nouadibou. Other places (Aleg, Tidjikja Tichitt etc..) at black market after long discussions about price, which was bet 350 and 400, sometimes mixed with diesel, (which by the way improves lubrication)

Some nomads told us that a Series LR is not exactly a vehicle but a mix of that with a camel, needing care an attention on the way

Thanks all for your help, information, maps, way points, experience. Horizons Unlimited has been very helpful. It was a wonderful trip.

Welcome back Luis! glad to hear you made it through the dunes - sounds like a real adventure. I've sent you a pm about the rusty old lump we left on your doorstep...

[This message has been edited by Richard K (edited 16 March 2006).]

Thanks Richard, I hope you have a good time.

I posted some pics from the 9 weeks trip in RIM, link below

Unfortunately you got to register to see the pages, but is worth it !



http://viajesyaventuras.mywowbb.com/forum20/118.html

Happy days! great pics - interesting website too, wish my Spanish wasn't so mal.

Morocco was good fun (and positive luxury after RIM). I'll try and post a few pics at some stage.

....................Que?

las fotografías son muy buenas...