Libya visas updating
 

Starting from June visas tourist requests have to be handled only by" Tripoli".This means that time for issuance will be longer , more than one month if the deliverance is requested at the border.No significative changes in the actual procedure .
Budrinna

Egyptian travel to Libya
 

Dear budrina
how are you ?
i was planning to go to Libya ,Tunisia ,then to Europe on motorbike
I'm Egyptian (Bedouin from Awlad Ali tribe )but i cant go to Libya with my own motorbike ,unless i ship it by plane or having Libyan wife traveling with me .or having a working contract in Libya ,or born in Marsa Matrouh (as your goverment thinks Awlad Ali only in Matrouh
do you have any info about that /
that what they told me in the councilate in Alexandria
sure some thing to piss off ,amgad ya 3arab amgad

@ Omar; whilst I guess that Budrinna has already answered you via PM - please allow me to express my astonishment: Egypt is a neighbuor of Libya and there are tens (if not hundrests) of thousands of Egyptians all over Libya. I cannot understand why you should have these difficulties to enter Libya? If you don't mind - please explain for my better understanding.

hi Kuno
well i don't understand it at all
so far Egyptian need no visas to enter Libya ,
but that means you must enter the country flying
well i don't understand it at all in 2006 i went to Libya driving my car and had no problems at all
so far i heard Egyptian will need visa to enter Libya from the beginning of July
i didn't got any pms from Bu Drinna
cheers
Omar

@ O. Mansour

The visa is now requested.

Budrinna

Hello Budrinna,

Could you clarify, please - will it take a month if the visa is applied for at a Libyan consulate? It certainly makes no sense to wait a month at the border. And how is the procedure going to affect travellers who arrange for their visas through a Libyan travel agency? Do they also have to wait a month?

The procedure request for issuing a visa request at least or near one month time, of course nobody will be so ..to wait such at the border, but simply will arange to be present at the border at the date and time indicated by the agency.
Same time is requested by agencies , as also recently those have to fulfill other requirements as insurance , hotels reservations and the last six months personal bank balance of each pax.

Budrinna

Dear Budrinna,

Many thanks for your reply. I would be easy to assume that once Libya has been trying to make peace with Europe, it would want to simplify the visa procedure rather than demonstrate thaty from now on it is going to be even more difficult. But I know that in politics there are various interest clashing with each other and for some people losing control over an important economic sector such as tourism, is unthinkable. It will be a long drawn process, but hopefully those who have a long term vision of the intersts of your country will prevail.

Personal bank balance of each pax? Please tell me it's a joke! No-one, even in Libya, would expect tourists arriving for a city break or a trip to the desert, to do that. In the UK, I do not even have to send my bank statements to the Tax Office when making my annual tax declaration. Why would I have to do that in Libya? And why should any one in Europe want to put up with such harassment in order to visit Libya, especially now that the travel markets are so depressed and countries are trying to woo any tourists at all?

Sorry Roman
but politics or discussing about politic is not our job and purpose , neither to discuss our local visas requirements.

Budrinna

Hello Budrinna,

That's fine by me, I wasn't expecting you (I am not sure why you use a plural form) to give us a justification for that, just facts, especially that one fact you presented sounds bizarre.

Could any one here confirm having been asked to send his bank account file to Libya in order to obtain a tourist visa recently?

Incredibly, they're not joking!
 

This is what I've just heard from a Libyan specialist I work with:

Yeah unfortunately the Libyan visa application process has just got
ridiculously complicated! - you need all of the details below

1) Valid Passport with at least 6 months Validity.
2) Completed Visa Application form.
3) 4 Passport sized photos.
4) Valid Travel Insurance.
5) Hotel Reservation.
6) Return ticket and copy of Itinerary.
7) Letter from Employer.
8) Bank Statement for Period - Current Month and the last 6 months.
9) A Invitation letter from Immigration Office in Libya
10) Arabic Translation must be stamped in Passport
11) Visa applicants are requested to attend [the embassy] in person and provide fingerprint details.
12) Visa is granted after 7 days after the applicant has submitted.

Note #11. As she adds, knowingly:
Fingers crossed it won't last...!

Chris

The list of requirements for the Libyan visa is very similar to Angola - including the bank statement. I wonder if this is a tit-for-tat thing, as European countries may now be requiring Africans to demonstrate that they have the financial means to support themselves when in Europe. Europeans going to African countries now have to do likewise.

Lybia : not reliable (again)
 

If it is true I think it's better to change for another destination less complicated to reach. But may be it is what Lybian officials want? Isn't it, Budrinna?
RR.

Hello Richard,

Could be this, could be something else. Budrinna will not help, that's for sure.

Maybe it's an attempt by a faction of the Libyan establishment to tighten the control of the emerging local tourist market - an underlying fear that more money from tourism will excessively empower some sections of the society. Maybe it's a shot across the bow to allow Libyans easier access to Europe.

Otherwise it could be like shooting oneself in the foot in a show of solidarity with the one-legged.

1) Valid Passport with at least 6 months Validity.

Chris; if I am not completely wrong, it reads that the passport has to be valid for at least 6 more months after the expiry of the visa. Means that you have to calculate 6 months from your departure date from LY. Such was (and is) the case for business visa.

---

If it is a 'This for that" is actually questionable. LY wants to boost its tourism-sector and there for has to atract tourists. So one should expect that the entry for tourists would be made easier.

And actually it would be the turn to the Europeans to issue visa only fro groups starting from 4, to oblige the group to take a mandatory guide and a tourist police...

---

The guessing that the new rules may not last for long are really not helping the LY tour operators. European tourists are nrmally spending a lot of money to come to LY and they are planning in advance into the smalles detail. If the etry to the country is not sure or if the rules are not clear --- most of them just take another destination. The last season was already not good here in LY. Stated by some tour operators I know. People have started to look for other jobs now...

Kuno, the 6 months validity is standard around the world, AFAIK.

... groups starting from 4, to oblige the group to take a mandatory guide and a tourist police...

Good point. Not even USSR was that bad and even in China today you can DIY without your own vehicle.

You do wonder if it's a 'control' thing as Roman suggested. Either way, as long as the oil and gas keeps flowing in Libya and Algeria, I suspect neither have any incentive to develop tourism like their neighbours. I'll bet the Alg state makes more in a day from gas than it does in a year of tourism. Maybe Libya too, which must have among the highest GDPs per head in Africa.

In Libya's case it's a waste as at least they don't have the scourge of AQIM to scare people off.

Ch

I do certainly agree, that in countries where oil&gas are providing the main income, the other industries - and so the tourism - do only have a secondary importance.

On the other side, not everybody in such countries does automatically participate in such 'natural income'.

I cannot at all judge the actual Libyan politics. My personal experience of last year, when I had a TV crew in the country was very fascinating. Most difficult to get all the permissions etc. but then, once they were here, they could really act without any hindrance.

I gave it up to try to understand everything...

@ Roman


The list of requirements duly reported by the Moderator is the same list of fulfilments required, for instance, by Italian consulates and embassy in LY for our citizens going in Eu ( Shengen standards)but applied not this month but and since more 3 years.

The latest set up of the local ministry of tourism, proofs that no hindrance are against its development , may be the opposite

What Kuno 2 report about last bad season for T.O is correct, but this happens mostly to the irregular one’s.

Cheers
Budrinna

NOTE.

When the EU traveller is holder of an eletronic passport, no fingers tips are requested.
Visa is granted after 2 working weeks .

Hi Budrinna,

what do you mean by electronic passport ? do they exist ?

Maybe you are talking about a biometric passports ?

Regards,
Tomaz

I think he is. They are common now and have the logo below on the front and a chip in the back. So no need to end up like Reinhold Messner.

Ch

...but this happens mostly to the irregular one’s.

@ Budrinna, actually I do not know 'Irregular Tour Operator's' in Libya. My above information was provided to me by well renown, long term established, regular tour operators.

I am really wondering, how you - or let us say Libya - wants to make the planned tourist facilities attractive for visitors, if the conditions to obtain a visa are as you have made them now. It is not really a question if Schengen has the same rules for Libyans coming to Europe but your new tourist facilities will definitely be in competition with the well establisehd ones in the neighbouring mediterranean-states. If a tourist can choose, between the very easy accessible facilities of Tunisia and Egypt, then I cannot really imagine that Libya would be a competitive option after all.

Naturally, we all are aware that you don't need tourism to create an income for your Country. As long as you can sell oil & gas, tourism will probably not become an important subject for you. On the other hand, it is a fact, the tourists have many options to choose - and do not need Libya either as well.

Budrinna,

Thanks for your reply. Now, let me ask you something:

Over the years I have made several trips to Libya and have great fondness for the country and the people, even made friends in Libya with whom I keep in touch regularly. Now you are telling me that because Libya has set up a new ministry, tourism is going to flourish, and it is only going to be easier for people to come and enjoy your beautiful country.

Do you really think so? Do you want to make me believe the new visa rules are there to encourage me to go to Tripoli or Ghat to visit my friends?

You said it’s not your job to discuss politics. Then it’s better, I suppose, not to stick out your neck at all.

Two working weeks waiting time (which is like three weeks anyway) for biometric passport holders? He he... you blink and here comes another visa rule!:clap:

@ Kuno2
Never said and allow to anybody to say, for present and future, that Budrinna is in any way involved or have anything to do in the matter concerning local tourism policy and/or its rule’s enaction . If you are interested to go deeper on the matter just turn your enquiries to the local Ministry of Tourism, surely you will find official and duly answer as well get revised statistics from where drawing more precise checks about the drop of presence of tourists .

@ Roman

Hereby confirm that politics is not our job , but above all Budrinna do respect forum rule’s that is only to forward infos as more official and correct possible to help travel in LY , and so will follow regardless of what you believe of what you think if tourism will flourish or not, leaving you the pleasure to cllap or to guess , sticking out or in your neck at your exclusive choice ,on the future of the next coming rules. As the Moderator well said, nobody is joking here , neither Budrinna.

Salam .

Budrinna;

your posts are somehow confusing. It always starts in a way, giving the reader the impression that you have first hand information and it -not only to me- suggests that you are either a Libyan tour operator or an employee of some tourist related organisation.

But then, as soon as somebody asks you a direct question in regard to your previous post, you step back and declare that you have nothing to do with it at all and then you request the one who had asked to contact a Libyan newspaper, an Authority or whatever...

I must admit that it is quite difficult for me to recognize your real intention here in this forum - actually I could not find it yet.

Maybe it is just like one senior member of this forum wrote to me once: "Burdrinna's posts have not much helpful content but at least they stirr up a little bit..."

:confused1:

"I must admit that it is quite difficult for me to recognize your real intention here in this forum "

Yes that's true AND also it's always very difficult to know the real intention of Lybian authorities and their 'true' regulations as well.

I think they have nothing to do with individual tourists, it's not their problem.

RR.

@ Kuno2
Very interesting remark .(the senior member’s one)

@ RoRo
Great. RR
But , confidentially are You really sure that individual tourists aren’t their problem?
Budrinna

I agree, it is not easy to recognize the concept in regard of the planned tourism in Libya. Just recently there was the 'TITEX' (Tripoli International Tourist Exhibition). Mostly presenting models of the planned tourist compounds which shall cover actually all the beautiful spots at the beaches. I wonder, how such huge installations should be 'filled' under the given circumstances...

The 'individual tourist' is not an economic factor at the first glance - but actually it is them, the individuals who are 'discovering' the interesting places and teling about them so that more people would be interested in the Country and its people!

A standard-tourist complexe somewhere at the beach would accommodate thousands of people. But the actual contact to "Locals" would not be t Libyans but most probably to hired staff from Morocco, Tunisia and Egypt. An nothing is a more desperate location than an empty tourist-compound.

Personally I hope that Libya can manage to keep as it is, and not to go for the 'mass tourism'. Imagine - only 1'000 tourists visiting Umm el Ma'a each day.... horrible!

Hi Kuno2

Just for more info and knowledge about the aims of TITEX.


Tripoli International Tourism Expo(TITEX)

Start Date: 09-MAY-09
End Date: 12-MAY-09
Venue: Tripoli International Fair
City: Tripoli,
Country: Libya
Event Profile:Tripoli International Tourism Expo(TITEX) aims at introducing the variety of the Syrian touristic climate and develops the environment of tourism in the region in order to attract as much visitors and tourists as they can to visit the outstanding features of our country.
Visitor's Profile:Hotels & Resorts, Trips luggage, Travel and Tourism Magazines, Fun Towns, Restaurants and Clubs, Tourism offices, Tourism Ministries, Tourist companies, Tourist Projects companies, Airlines, Tourist Collages and Institutes, Museums & monuments, Transporting and Renting Cars companies are the target visitors.
Exhibitor's Profile:Profile for exhibit include Hotels, Resorts, Healthy Pools, Trips Equipment Shops, Photography Tools, Fun Towns and Games, Cinemas, Hotels Equipment, Garden Services, Clubs and Restaurants, Communication Services, Museums, Cultural Centers, Public Services, Airlines, Transporting and Renting Cars Companies, Tourism & Travel Magazines, Touristic Institutes, Evaluating Touristic Projects Companies, International Airports, Arabic & Foreign Ministries of Tourism.
Organizer : Pheonicia Group
501 Silverside Road, Suite # 105,
Delaware, United States Of America.
Tel: +(1)-(509)-2776801

Just to agreed to the very interesting remark of the senior member’s one who wrote to you .


Referring to the “horrible” future you foretell on Um El Maa , have you seen its present? Its daily spectacle of individual’s luxury 4x4 , quads , sidecars too, roaring up and down the dunes while the tourists willing to discover LY ( this was true at the end of embargo in case not now ) are still hoarded on board of rusty FJ . The hundred’s bottles of Prosecco wine and spirits buried under its sand? Shall we talk how it is introduced by individuals ? the way & tips? ( nothing against alcohol , but if it is forbidden, first come for the foreign traveller the respect of usages and customs of the nation he visit),? Shall we talk about the ridiculous profits of the four local straw huts called actually tourist camps or shall we go on with Somehow more confused or more officially? From our side we could keep on with pleasure on the same line but the Forum is not the correct place to comment those and others points, that's why we reported above the official aims of the fair you got the opportunity to visit, (also visited by representatives of our office ):May be you will read through ( and find )the true premise of the hoped future of Tourism in LY that everywhere never lied for the benefit of few , but for all LY citizens as foreigns .
Budrinna

TOURISM: LIBYA, NEW VISA METHODS INFLUENCE NEW ARRIVALS
25.06.2009 - ANSAmed

TRIPOLI - Three weeks ago getting a tourist visa to visit Libya suddenly became more complicated and the result is a steep decline in the number of new tourist arrivals to the country. The new rules do not allow tourists to pick up their visa directly in the airport, as used to happen before. Now it can only be released by Libyan embassies and consulates located in the countries of origin, and a lot of paperwork is also needed. For example, a six month passport visa requires a bilingual stamp, health insurance worth 30,000 euros, a bank statement covering the past 6 months, an invitation by a local travel agency, a hotel reservation and a return airline ticket. Once the mentioned paperwork has been submitted, the request will be processed in 10 to 12 days. However, the Libyan embassy in Rome and the consulate in Milan are hard pressed to meet demand (partly because of limited office hours) and many have had to change their travel schedule. Mohammed Fakrun, director of International Cooperation with the Authority for Libyan Tourism and Handicrafts, suggested that "this is a problem of reciprocity that is probably connected to the issue of visas for Libyans who intend to enter a member Country of the Shengen agreement". Zuer, who works with a local travel agency, complained that "Our work has halved". Nobody can say whether and when these rules will be repealed. Fakrun explained that "the only positive aspect is that this is low season for Libya. The high season, during which you can also visit the desert, runs from November to March". Libyàs tour operators hope that by then, especially in light of the scheduled celebration of Gaddafìs 40 years in power, the bureaucratic load on tourists may be sorted out.

Source: ANSAmed

@ Budrinna;

Quote: "Event Profile:Tripoli International Tourism Expo(TITEX) aims at introducing the variety of the Syrian touristic climate and develops the environment of tourism in the region in order to attract as much visitors and tourists as they can to visit the outstanding features of our country." Unquote

Syrian touristic climate?

------

Again @ Budrinna;

your post gives me the impression that you have certain negative feelings against the so called 'mass tourism'. But check out your message about the TITEX once more: Most of the projects presented there were just pointing into this direction (I had the occassion to visit the small exhibition, by th way). I mean, if Libya choses this way for the tourism... what shall the 'individual tourists' do against it?

Referring to the “horrible” future you foretell on Um El Maa , have you seen its present?

I must admit that it was last year, when I had been at these lakes the last time. It was not even in the middle of the 'tourist season'. Unfortunately there were plenty of such 'party people' as you had mentioned them. But they were not foreigners but Libyans. In particular I remember some of the new type LandCrusiers (don't ask me the precise type of the car - the new, fat ones I mean). The impression might be different in the 'high season'. But I shall not go there any more in this period.

What I actually wanted to express is the situation that such sensitive places as the so called "Mandara Lakes" cannot survive more than a very limited number of visitors. Else they loose their charme...


Its daily spectacle of individual’s luxury 4x4 , quads , sidecars too, roaring up and down the dunes while the tourists willing to discover LY ( this was true at the end of embargo in case not now ) are still hoarded on board of rusty FJ .

I do not like in particular, if people find it necessary to spoil the dune flanks around the lakes with their traces (tire or foot). since all coming after them have no more chance to take a 'clean' picture of the lake and the dunes behind then.

Do not understand, what you want to express with the different types of trucks. Seems you do not like those who come with a modern car but prefer those in the old rusty FJ.


The hundred’s bottles of Prosecco wine and spirits buried under its sand?

I am actually not aware of those. But the rubbish thrown away is a problem in general already now. Not that this is only done by tourists - not at all- but at such spots special care should be taken!


Shall we talk how it is introduced by individuals ? the way & tips? ( nothing against alcohol , but if it is forbidden, first come for the foreign traveller the respect of usages and customs of the nation he visit),?

I understand that you credit the consumed Alcohol to those tourists who entered Libya by their own vehicles. The big groups who come by plane have less chance to bring a lot of bottles. Is it that, what you mean? What means "the way & tips?"?

I would propose to discuss th subject 'alcohol' not in this thread. It will fore sure be an issue, if Libya wants to run its planned tourist complexes along the coast. Although I personally can easily live without alcohol, I fear that 'dry tourist compounds' would be much less attractive for the tourists...

Shall we talk about the ridiculous profits of the four local straw huts called actually tourist camps or shall we go on with Somehow more confused or more officially?

I remember the time, when there were no such huts at the 'Mandara Lakes' and must admit that I prefer the previous situation. Nowadays you hardly stop your car and you are already approachec by people who want to sell you 'Touareg stuff'

Budrinna; I do not understand the second sentence you made here: "or shall we go on with Somehow more confused or more officially?"


From our side we could keep on with pleasure on the same line but the Forum is not the correct place to comment those and others points, that's why we reported above the official aims of the fair you got the opportunity to visit, (also visited by representatives of our office )

Would you mind to tell us whom or which organisation you are representing? I could imagine that such could be helpful to better understand your statements.
(If you represent a 'tourist agency' then you may better state it only in this way without mentioning its actual name to avoid that it could be considered as 'commercial advertisment' which is restricted in this forum).


:May be you will read through ( and find )the true premise of the hoped future of Tourism in LY that everywhere never lied for the benefit of few , but for all LY citizens as foreigns .

I wish that the tourism in LY can develop quietly and in respect of local's and foreigner's interest!

Excellent thread, I've have been following it closely, because I hope to go to Libya at the end of the year, and gather as much info as possible.

A little bemused why it's left the main subject though; surely all we need is clarification.

I apologise Budrinna; but I do wonder what a 'Delaware' Company (offshore tax reasons? I spent 5yrs in the Middle East, doing business with such companies) is doing in Libya, and the answer;

Welcome To Phoenicia-Group.net - Linking Libya and The World

but I could be wrong.

Libya for me, is one of the few great desert Countries left to see, I vistied Tripoli many years ago, and would like to go back and see the rest of the Country.

I can put up with a ferry that costs 4/5 more (compared to Morocco), and a lot more paperwork; but only to a point.

Ma'salama

Dear Budrinna,

I can see that your country is making all the right noises to attract attention of the world for the new policy of openness. Sadly, the Libyans seem to forget that after 30 odd years, the world needs convinving that Libya is an asset to the internatinal community, even that travel to Libya is an option. It is just as well up to the Libyans to demonstrate that they want to make an effort.

Show me a serious tour operator from the UK, Italy or USA who will want to risk selling a package to Libya knowing that even for him it took a month and a ton of paperwork to obtain a Libyan visa for the T.I.T.EX.

Now, an excerpt form the blurb for the 2ND TRIPOLI INTERNATIONAL TOURISM EXPO ( T.I.T.EX ) 2009:

"This is a good opportunity for Tourism Organizations, Tour Operators, Travel Agencies, Airlines, Hotels, Investors in the Tourism sector and other related industries, around the World to introduce themselves to the Libyan market."

So far so good, but wait! If this is what they really mean (the English website is pretty horrid), they seem not to notice that right now tourism & travel is a cut-throat market - the U.N. World Tourism Organization is prediciting a 2% decline in 2009. It is the Libyans who need to introduce themselves to the international travel markets, not the other way round. In the past, you had shown up, in a very, very modest way, at the World Travel Market in London (actually, only Arkno was there because they have an office in London). Last year the Libya stand was not there at all. AT ITB in Berlin only a handful of Libyan tour operators showed up. So, from where I stand I can see that Libya isn't trying hard at all.

You may wonder why am saying all this. Just as you purport to be involved with tourism, so am I - I run a tourism promotion agency representing another European country in the UK. It took us many years to come up with a right market strategy, so I know Libya needs time, too. But starting from the wrong end is not going to help. And what you said about misbehaving tourist is not only a problem for Libya, and it will not be solved by closing the borders due to unreasonable visa requirements.

Thanks all
for you all interesting comments, but most statements are focused on short one trip time basis to support their statement with valid evidence ( by the way “ party peoples” referred by Kuno2 are called here Zarda and are the clear result from imported fashions that particularly in Um el Maa were enhanced by individuals 4x4 at the point that now quads are available for all tourist like in Sharm el Sheik or Hurgada . Italian co provides to hire ). If there is a question it is why Libyans can’t have same fun in their own country ?it is a shame to behave likely or what else?).
Others comments are suggested by different points of comparison (LY is not Morocco and Morocco is not LY even bothe are in NorthAfrica ecc ) or egoistic point of views (peoples that only seek and wish that the LY Sahara will remain submitted as the pleasure of their very personal requirements ( opportunity to take clean dune’s shoot or not to be disturbed by local selling local handcraft and Not stuff ? Ridiculous if you think that this happens in all touristic places in the world ? or, worst when are moved by poor or hidden interest (see here small local business at the expense and damage for the development of all the sector ) or wrong ( no LY border are closed except now Amsad for plague ) .

Those are not premises valid to help the LY unreasonable visa’s procedure that, after all is unreasonable as the procedure requested for a Libyan tourist aiming to travel EU. There are the same , and since years.

Agree that all will be a question of time , but times are always changing and future is not made by past remembrances , but with the presence of qualified T.O . interested in opening local long lasting branch and not t “seldom “ and take away presence and this is the reason that authorities, to whom is due to change ,or not, the charme of Um El Maa , to solve or not dry tourist thirst’s problems , but certainly to open more and others Titex. in order to have the profitable participation of hundred of serious presences. On this matter Budrinna could point hundreds of serious foreign operator risking tour package in LY but here and concluding will just report the name of worldwide first T.O, the Italian Valtur , actually building resorts in LY of (also UK and Swiss co are working in similar project Ly) where more than hundreds of foreign T.O will send their clients with packages that will include tours in Umm el Maa, in the time surely cleaned from huts as Prosecco bottles , but also with the possibility have Prosecco, Champagne or wisky served at theirs s correct temperature inside luxury resorts on the shore of Um el Maa. too as well in Namous or bir Tlaksin . When, before or later this will happen this will also signify that visa procedure will come to end from one side as the other. This is Budrinna’s wish.
Cheers Budrinna

Budrinna,

I am sure the time will come for tourism boom in Libya, but let's not get overexcited yet with " hundreds of serious foreign operator risking tour package in LY". Look up the Euromonitor International forecast for 2007 - 2012. There's going to be very little growth, even compared to Algeria, and that's on pretty low 2007 base figures for a country the size of Libya. And that was even before the 2009 market crash.

http://www.romangoz.com/public/EM-2007-20012.gif

http://www.wtmlondon.com/files/wtm_g...eport_2008.pdf (page 17)

A stable policy baseds on a long term vision is what every country needs to attract tourism, not the kind of "go - stop - go" pattern typical of Libya during the recent years.

Libya visas updating...
 

Tunisia saw 3.2 million visitors in the first six months of this year. Morocco saw 7.4 milliion tourists last year and is on course to welcome 10 million next year.

Your bar-chart shows that only Iran is forecast to lose tourists (a projected downturn of a third - thats a big percentage). Libya has good potential but it needs to go and see how Tunisia next door, and how Morocco in particular, do it. And then copy. The cheap no-frills airlines go straight into Morocco now, you dont need a visa, let alone sending in bank-account statements. Biometric passports was suggested earlier this year, just as we were to visit Libya with the Nile Trial classic car rally, and then they changed their minds, but not before several crews had gone through the hassle of taking out the new passport (which in the end proved a waste of time and money). Libya is by far the friendliest country on the ground compared with Tunisia or Morocco, but, has a long, long way to go in understanding how to attract visitors.

I cant see why the Swiss should be interested in any inward investment in Libya. No Swiss national can get a visa to Libya. Even more difficult for a Swiss national than being an American !

Philip Young
Endurance Rally Association

Agree with both replies as the above;

I spent many an interesting hour stuck in the 'weekend queue' heading from Damman to Bahrain across the courseway.

Bahrain; small country, little or no oil, but the Saudi's love the 'Scottish water', and sights, of course. If tourism is planned correctly, vast wealth is available, even in this economic climate.

well 12 of us were going to Libya in May 2010

after the visa changes we are now going to Tunisia- that's probably £30,000 lost to the Libyan economy in Euro's!

Where to go ?
 

When I look at this chart, I know where I prefer to go : Not in Egypt nor Morocco where I'll see a lot of crowd of pinky tourists!:thumbup1:
Below Jordan I'll choose some contry where formalities aren't too much boring (for exemple fingerprint files in some country - I don't remember exactly which one).

RR

Libya visas updating...
 

Libya is never going to get any really significant numbers of visitors until it realises it must make it easy to visit the country. On-The-Spot Visas available when you arrive make it easy for visitors to Egypt, in some places, you dont even need that (Im talking about those who fly in). With Libya, if you are Swiss, you cant get a visa, because Gadaffi's son upset restaurant staff in Switzerland, they chucked him out...now nobody who is Swiss can get a visa. Nuts. Just the sort of thing that does nothing for investment, or, visitor numbers. The barriers in the way are because Libya is suspicious of visitors.

Morocco - dont knock it till you've seen it. If you go out of season you drive for miles and miles without seeing another human being. November is great, for example. Get to the maze of roads south of Marrakesh, and get to the top of the Tiz-ni-Test mountain after Asni, awesome...and go east from Marrakesh to Ouazazate. Good base camp here...major films like Lawrence of Arabia, Mummy, Indiana Jones, have all used Todra Gorge, which is best accessed from driving down from Fez, to Midelt up on the Atlas Plateau, and turning right at Rich...terrific canyons, freshly covered in in a ribbon of tarmac, (before it was all rough piste and serious off-roading in here).

Who needs Libya, when you can do this so easily, and, cheaply - just fly in on Easy-Jet, and hire a car for a week. Dont go without at least taking a Michelin map, and go south-east...stunning stuff. Pick the right time and you wont see a tourist coach, in fact you wont see a tourist apart from a few adventurous bikers, but, as ever, timing is everything. You dont need a visa, and while French is dominant, a lot of English is spoken (remote petrol stations, shops etc), all you need is will-power and a map.

A Friend of mine applied for a visa two month ago:

He just went to the embassy, and since t was the first time for him, he aske, how the procedure works....

...what was explained to him very friendly.

Then he filled the application form. Showed about a thousand US dollars and the lady told him that after a -formal- approval procedure, he could pick up his visa. It would need normally 10 days so she advised him to come back after two weeks.

This he did.

He was very sure that everything worked fine so that he booked the flight for just the next day.

And so it was. He got his tourist-visa as requested.

Since he wanted to 'travel' and not t stay in one hotel, he did not have to prove all the hotel bookings.

Invitation from local "tour operator"? Was not required.
Visa only, if you are a group of at least four persons? He was alone. It was not required.
An "Official Tour Guide"? No. He had none. He did not need one. And nobody insisted in such company.
A "Tourist Police-Man"? Reallyno need for. And there was none to join him.

So, my friend arrived and travelled for 25 days...

He visited Malta, Italy, France, Belgium and the Netherlandes. He is Libyan and he went to 'Schengen States'.

Hello!
I’m just here as a reader since a long time, but I would like to add some comments to this discussion.


I am travelling to Libya since almost 20 years now, and I have a close amicable relationship to the people and the desert. I spend more time and money in Libya than 20 mass tourists ever will do. And I would like to continue that. Lots of travelers here may also be in the same situation. Also during embargo these travelers where the only one in to give a good image of Libya in there own countries. They did more positive for the Libyan image than every thing else.

What I miss (here in this tread, by certain actors) is any respect for travelers. People had been welcome as guest before, now rejected as the only causer of all ecological, economical and security problems. I think this gives a worse picture of Libya than that nice country deserves.

The rash statement, that the individual tourism plays no economic role, is a widespread rumor. In particular, travelers who are using their own vehicles/ship/Plane have higher income as mass tourists, and they spend more money and they spend it AT DIFFERENT PLACES. The difference is that individual travelers spend their money in the whole country and not like mass tourists to one company which controls the distribution in the country. This money will NOT really arrive in small restaurants or shops. The Tunisian situation around the all-inclusive-hotel zones gives a good example. This discussion about individual travelling is simply a struggle between big and small players in the tourism business. Big players have the better Lobby. That’s all. So we have to understand all these bashings against individual tourism as an effort of big (also state-run) TO against all the small businesses run and founded by small REGIONAL players in the last “good” years. Ecological problems are always the same. Local cars leave the same trace as a foreign car. An empty bottle is the same, whoever finished it. In Europe lots of countries tried to ban individual tourists 30 ears ago. The effect was a disappearing of small infrastructure of shops, restaurants, etc. in these regions. Now these regions are bagging for People with motor homes, using Campsites around. I live in a small, wealthy town where they build up a high class wine-tourism, based on individual travelers. The turnover increased about 150% in the last 5 years. AND: the money stays in the region!! If the trip would be booked via a big TO only a few percent arrive at people locally. In Libya it’s not different.

Exclusive, high class-tourism will always be highly individual, what means, that I won’t travel in a group of 10 or 20 person on a backseat of a agency car. If I spend 300$ or more per day, I don’t come to be told what I have to do or where I have to go and be observed by a policeman 24h a day. I don’t think that Libyans need a policeman with them in Europe?! May be I’m wrong? When friends from Libya visit me, I never find a policeman on my breakfast table :cool4: May be the rules are NOT the same, budrinna!?

But we are in the wrong thread, to continue the never ending discussion about the bad “individual” travelers.

We are discussing about the new visa regulation. I think we should not link that political matter to tourist business. No challenge like protecting fragile nature, cultural heritage, developing regional tourist business, keeping the high level of security etc. can be solved with showing my grandmas bank account to get a visa. So, if there where the same visa-conditions for both sides – and that’s the political objective of that new regulation– everybody would be happy. In the next months we will see if it the same. If not, it’s up to Europe to adapt it.

We will see.


Wolle

Nice reply !
I agree your post, dear Wolle.

Wolle - I would sign your statement at any time!

I remeber a banner at Tripoli Airport telling that "Friendship is made between people and not between Gouvernments". Something like this...

Hi all,

Libya would not be Libya if everthing there worked as promised. I have a fiend who lives permamently in Egypt and has a Polish passport, which is a EU passport after all.

Last week he applied through a Libyan tour operator for a tourist visa, to be colected at Amsaad. He had the visa granted without any fuss after 24 hrs.

Go figure!!!
:confused1:

@ Roman; just to become clear: Is it correct that he

A) Has an EU passport
B) Has entered just now from Egypt based on a tourist visa he has applied for
C) He got this tourist visa without any problems within 24 hours.

Is this correct?

Kuno,

I spoke to him on the phone last night and that's what he told me. Being Polish he obviously has a EU passport, like everybody else, but also has the right of abode in Egypt.

He told me he's had more hassle from the Egyptians about taking his Egyptian registered land cruiser into Libya than from the Libyan officials, whom he never saw in person. All arrangements were made for him by a Libyan tour operator, whom I know personally and can guarantee is a very nice and very efficient bloke.

I am not totally surprised, because when it comes to visas, like most things in Libya, it's not about what you know but who you know.

@ Roman; agree fully to your statement. Sometimes things work fine you did not even dare to dream of. Sometimes it is exactly the oppsite...

...not really what you need, if you are planning the long awaited trip to the desert of Libya. You have to book & pay the ferry in advance, the preparation of your truck etc.. Guess that most of the travellers prefer a somewhat more predictable situation than it is in the moment.