|
LandMine Kills 1 , in the Spanish Road !!!
hi !!
http://img454.imageshack.us/img454/6...urmine1pn5.png Apparently 1 week ago , a French Nissan Patrol with 2 people on it , has hit a antitank LandMine in the Spanish Road (10 Km East of the Mauri BorderPost. ) A man was dead , and another very seriously injured. so It seems that the mines were real .. after all... Scary , as most of us have been driving trhought there quite recklessly . Javier |
|
Hello,
and here You will find all about Landmines etc. in Africa: www.desert-info.ch :: Thema anzeigen - Minen/Landmines/Des Mines - alle/all/toutes infos Koordinates for Google Earth and GPS..... and much more. See also the other threads in "Minenarchiv" I have prepared. Best wishes Ulrich P.S.: If someone has new data, pleas sent me, I will update all data in our forum. ulrich.hanel at skydsl.de |
Very scary...as I passed through there in December. I remember seeing the burned out cars and realized with a lump in my stomach what that was all about...stick to the tracks in no mans land...
Pic of the road for future reference... mtb_better_road.jpg |
Spanish road?
hee
maybe it is a stupid question. But what is the Spanish road? ANd that nissan drive on a tank mine on the main road between morrocco and mauritania.? Or did they take a other little piste? there is a map at the link. but it is too little for me. bye |
hee
i think i know where it happened approximately if I compare the map on the internet and google earth. google earth: N; 21.20.44.00 and w; 16.56.18.00 that is the end off a little piste from the bedouines tents which lead to nothing. bye |
if he was 10km east of the border post that suggests he was well away from the area known as no mans land where everyone crosses. in other words he was where he shouldn't have been. the risks in this area are well known if you stray off the track but I think if you travel through 'no man's land. from one border to the other there is not a risk.
|
C
I posted this a few weeks a-go:
The mine thing: I asked my brother in law, who works in MAG, about the mines in RIM - W.S. There are plenty of them 1 all along the border with Western Sahara. 2 many places in western sahara, sometimes just a meter a-way from the road/piste 3 in RIM near the border. sometimes in places where nobody expects them MAG made a study of it, however, so far, they are not gonna remove the mines since there is little human action in the area and, compared with other conflictive areas, casualties are relatively low, mostly SAHARAHUI civilians. Just another way of making live even more difficult for the people of Western Sahara. http://www.icbl.org/lm/2006/western_...html#Heading97 Regards |
I think it's worth reassuring people that as Moggy says, for some reason they were way out of the safe area and paid a terrible price. The couple of clicks from the end of the Moroccan tarmac to the start in Mori is entirely straightforward.
Chris S |
Mines in Mauritania
see also "Is Western Sahara dangerous ?"
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...angerous-25349 Ursula |
I do feel bad for these people but then I hear first hand the most stupidest of stories.
One couple in their 4WD had their GPS points of their HOME vibrantly displayed on the front doors of their vehicle. The same couple hit a small mine which did damage to the underside of their vehicle, with the noise & shock, the first thing they did was to jump out of the 4WD - into what could have possibly been a field of landmines!!! On a more sombre note, there have been sightings of mines on the edge of the NBD - ATAR piste (the one on the right of the railway as you're heading for Atar) so don't 'stray' from the path ... it's just not worth it! Kira |
Land Mines in Mauritania
Regarding the stories about the French 4x4 blown up by land mines in Mauritania in Feb 2007 - we would like to set the record straight. We were part of a party of 3 vehicles in an overland drive from France to Togo. Our car is a Land Rover Defender, the other 2 being a Land Rover Discovery and a Nissan Patrol. The couple involved in the tragic accident were our travelling companions, Georges & Bernard. They were not driving the Nissan, but were in the Discovery. The Nissan had been sold in Togo, and the crew of that car had returned to France by plane. We left Togo to drive back to France with Georges & Bernard, but after 3 days we split to go our own way because we considered that they were reckless in their route planning, demanding we attempt extreme off-road raids, and proposing that we return to France via Algeria (against all advice because of the high risk of bandits)
We continued alone through Burkina Faso, Mali, Mauritania & Morocco. At the frontier between Mauritania & Morocco we paid a guide 20 euros to take us across the mine fields (this is absolutely essential). The track there is at best not clear, and with blowing sand, quite often becomes obscured. Georges sadly was not one to take advice or pay for a guide. This was evident on our southbound trip when he refused the offers of a guide and crossed the mine fields unaided. Tragically on his return trip he got lost and drove onto an anti-tank mine. We received news of this by text after we had arrived safely in Western Sahara. Georges suffered burns, and his friend and passenger Bernard died of internal haemorrage all because of the reluctance to pay for a guide. We know know this region reasonably well, and have many contacts with police & customs officers in the countries we passed through. If anyone wants up to date advice please feel free to email us. |
Landmines
How tragic to go over a landmine.
But I thought, its all tarmac between Morrocco & Western Sahara and upto Noudioubou. |
absolutely essential?
It's good to get the full story behind this tragic event - it appears the guys were reckless in the extreme and paid the price.
I've only done it twice (1999 and 2006) but IMO I still feel the record should be set straight for this popular crossing so people are not freaked out. It is much much more staightforward than it was in the old convoy days and, unless we are talking about some other parallel route, the current crossing of the few kms along the stony limestone track of No Mans Land between Maroc to Mori does not require a guide. There were none around last October anyway, only a few chummy Mori money changers halfway along the track in Merc 190s. Perhaps guides/hustlers are more common when going north. I am sure someone here could come up with waypoints for end of tarmac in Mk and the start or tarmac in Mori to set peoples' mind at ease. Chris S |
Hi all,
I'm quite astonished to read about this tragedy. In my mind (I passed there in august '06) it was so simple and easy to pass from Mk to Mori, following the natural route that it seems umbelivable... [but it's true of course :-( ] When I'm back home, I'll search for last wpt of that leg... (or track file if preferred, if someone tells me how post it to the forum) Ciao Ag |
This seems such an odd tragedy. As Chris says it would be pretty difficult to stray from the tracks at the normal border point - last couple of times I've made this crossing we were queuing behind silver-haired tourists in motorhomes or towing caravans!
In December there was even a herd of camels roaming unattended in no-mans land which made me think the mine risk was overstated - perhaps not the case. |
I think it would be appropriate to clarify the exact location of this accident. It can't be the place most of us would identify with the familiar locations at the border.
When I did the last crossing in 2006 on the way south via Bou Lanouar, it was so uneventful (except coaches and camper vans stuck in sand) that it's hard to imagine it would be a dangerous place. People were using different paths across the no-man's land and some of them were even camping there. Look up the location on google earth and you will see that the track is clearly visible even from space: End of tarmac in Morocco 21°21'42.82"N , 16°57'38.11"W Start of tarmac in Mauritania 21°19'59.97"N , 16°56'48.71"W |
>I think it would be appropriate to clarify the exact location of this accident. >It can't be the place most of us would identify with the familiar locations at >the border.
If the original news report map which Javier posted is accurate, it looks like they strayed a few Km off to the East. Perhaps to explore or maybe there was one hell of a storm. Very odd. |
Hi Roman,
the road we took (looking now at G.E.) is without any doubt that seen on sat image. the only little hassle is to be "lost" in the car-repair area, just feew meters West before tho border control. Maybe they reached the camp-site? (1.6 km East) above the Mori border control, and from that they took to East (a clear sand track is visible too) to rejoin the old Spanish Road. Why? no one says......... :-( Ciao Ag |
Hi .
This tragic incident seems the horrible result of : a: being unfamiliar with the border b: Listening/pay atention to the hustlerss.. The track from Mor to Mauritnaia is mostly a North ->South track .After 1km approximately (going to Mauritania ) , there is a Junction . Most vehicles should take the left Branche -which seems to lead to a scrapyard- but just border it . After this scrapyard , keep on going South until reaching the Spanish Road. The Spanish Road is the Actual border beetween Mauritania and Morocco . It is a 1 meter wide tarmac road which goes westwards towards La Guira (Moroccan side of Nouadibou peninsulae) and eastwards towarsd some off-limits military camps. You should NEVER EVER DRIVE ON THE SPANISH ROAD other than the short strech shown in the route. By the time you reach the Spanish Road (BLACK) , the Mauritanian new border post should be visible .No difficulties whatsoever. It should be pointed that this route (the White-one) is perfectly doable in any car (Id say even a Minicooper or a Smart). No difficulties at all . The big problem is when going North . For whichever reason , Mauritanians let hustlers in the actual border posts ,and they will give you misleading hints about how to get to Moroccan side . Some of them will dissorient you on purpose , leading you to the east (no need to ) , and getting lost in the maze of tracks going nowehere there . Its then when they ask you for some cash to "lead you trhought the mines " If you just follow the tracks (as 100s of vehicles do every day ) there 's no need to use any guide at all .Id say actually that going with a guide (trhought non-tracks, so they can justify their fees ) is more risky than simply following the tracks. Regarding the land mine incident , I am afraid that the whole thing was simply a scam went wrong . From time to time , hustlers "guides" try to conn some people triying to convince them that the only way to morocco is "throught the minefield" charging some serious money for that . It was the case until 5 years ago in which mauritanian decided to open the border normally (as is now ). Even now , From time to time , in Nouadibou you find some clever dudes triying to convince you that they know the "way throught the minefield" , basicly scamming you to use the services of a guide when in reality there's absolutely no need for that , as the border is open , and the tracks are clear . They ussually lead you to the remote east , to cross over a real minefield (been there , I could even see and picture a few landmines ) so you are happy paying cash for the unvaluable help and expertise . Some people fall for this . But Sadly in this particular case ,the whole thing went very very wrong . To disipate any further doubts about the REAL track .. this is a google map outline of the Good(White) track , the Sandi (but equally safe) track -red - , the Spanish Road (-Black) ,. and the borderposts. http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/7479/tracklpe7.jpg http://img482.imageshack.us/img482/2...ac1zoomro6.jpg http://img390.imageshack.us/img390/9...ck2zoomgh9.jpg Pls note that the CORRECT route is the WHITE one . The RED one is also mine -free (and has been the route for years ago ) but Its has got very sandy , and really difficult to drive on . Even landrovers get stuck there . The WHITE is much much better . But there are NO landMines neither the RED or the WHITE. Whereas the BLACK is simply the Spanish Road , which is tecnhically the oficial border beetween Morocco and Mauritania . Westwards get up to La Guira (off limits , althought I been there :) ) and eastwards leads to to the emptiness of the Mauri/Moro border + LandMines. |
hi ..I got the waypoints for all these things should someone is interested in .
Madrid_Capetown (at a ) Hot Mail (dot) Com. |
Thanks Roman for the waypoints and Javier for the maps.
Seems like I must have done the white one last October, though I think a money changing Merc led us down it to his lair by the 'scrapyard'. From there it was a short hop to the Mori buildings though I don't recall the Spanish Road (in the convoy days it was advised to follow the Spanish Road to 'Le Bouchon' rail crossing - but this was the Spanish Road well south of the border heading to La Guerra and obviously it was not mined. From what people say below clearly the northern section along the border is mined, as is the whole border). Regarding the land mine incident , I am afraid that the whole thing was simply a scam went wrong ... Well if the description of tandempics is correct, it was not a scammer that led them to their doom (they had no guide) but the final example of their own bloody-mindedness. In the convoy days when South-North was not completely legit, I know people who were led into the eastern minefields deliberately by guides. If it really still goes on these days with the now straightforward crossing, then I would agree with Jav - taking a guide for S-N could be more risky than DIY. We all now have the maps and the waypoints to do it safely. Chris S |
article translation (in a hurry!)
Sunday 4th Feb 2007 a vehicle acarrying 2 French people struck an anti-tank mine and three anti personel mines in the international zone separating Mauritania and Morocco.
The anti tank mine exploded at the back of the vehicle. The explosion catapulted the Nissan Patrol 15 meters and destroyed the vehicle completely. The passenger, aged 61, died of an internal haemorrage. The driver escaped with facial burns. Both were returning from Togo and had just visited the Banc d'Arguin. They wanted to use the Old Spanish Road using their GPS points. What with the wind and moving sands, the driver lost his way in the international zone and circled to retrace his own tracks. It was at this moment that they went over the mines. "Both sides of the Old Spanish road and some of the tarmac are mined- some are visible to the eye" said Abdi Ould Ahmed , spokesperson for the HAMAP Assoc. (Halte to anti personnel mines) who is responsible for land mine removal. The accident happened approx 1,5 Km North East from the Mauritanian border control in the international zone- as such, no military personnel from either side attended. It was 'Jo public' who were camping in the zone who took the wounded man to hospital in Nouadhibou. Three weeks prior to this incident, a camel stepped on a mine. Last November a child was seriously wounded by a mine 40 Kms north of Tmelmichat. The only advice- stay on the correct piste. I can also send my tracks in .gdb format if anyone would like them. bertrand3030 'AT' yahoo 'DOT' co 'DOT' uk The ground surface is well dug up by endless traffic and a mess when it rains. The rocky part is a doddle. |
In January 2006 I took the red "old" route and it was not difficult with Defender. There were some patches of soft sand that may stop small cars but I saw one guy did it with touristic camper.
|
Daedalus Films,
Here's a job cut out for you and a way to finally contribute something useful to this forum. You have a chance to do us all the service by going there and sending us your track points. Exciting, isn't it? The most dangerous place on earth with you on camera! |
If some of the tarmac of the Spanish Road is mined, then is it still safe to take the route shown on the google maps that were posted in this thread?
Of course it is, that's why he posted it! Read the threads carefully - all the info you need is there. There are even GPS points for the start and end points a few kms apart. This stuff is pretty important.... Actually it's not because the crossing is so simple many of us wonder what happened. Despite reassurances, you are over-reacting to a fatal accident that was, we have been told in detail, caused by a reckless driver tragically going his own way. Remember, scores of people take this crossing every day without drama and when you do so you will wonder what all the fuss was about. If you are still worried, do the crossing with someone who has done it before. Chris S |
A description of the route You will find here:
www.desert-info.ch :: Thema anzeigen - MA-RIM - Niemandsland/No man's land/Zone neutre Allways no blasts Ulrich |
Regarding the "Spanish Road"
Obviously the tarmac itself is not mined ! :). the mines are either side of the road , but not in the Tarmac itself. and there are no mines at least at couple kilometers eastwards . Given the overall confussion on that area , if you Give me one day *(today I am really busy in the office ) Tomorrow I ll make an absolutely detailed , clear map of the area . Including the spanish road , the Moroccan Border , Mauritania Border , former routes (bivaq->Bouchon) and the current route . I ll mark also the mined areas (which are not random , they follow some pattern and logic !! ) . I know the story of the road, and the area surrounding it insideout , so I ll be very happy to do a clear map Javier . |
but until I get ready that map// here are the mined , and mine-free areas . I think is self-explaining
Blue line Moroccan actual border Yellow Line Mauritanian border Black road in beetween is the infamous spanish road and that gap in the mines from the mauritanian borderpost to the northeast is the old "smugglers" track . -, every seller of 504s knows it :) , he he - basicly following the recommended , normal track from one border to another you are as safe as it gets.There are no mines whatsoever remotely near the track . No need to worry . But some people (and I did the first time ) confuse the spanish road (the one in the middle )_ with the road to nouadiubou (as It goes south also ) . WRONG . If you take the spanish road westwards (and then southwards ) you end up in a hellish minefield . The road itself is mine-free but you can even see unexploted mines just 3-4 metres from the tarmac ! . This is serious . before , in the gold old times of the convoy ,Bivaq and Bouchon ... the procedure was to follow the Spanish road until "Le Bouchon" (sleep there , etc.. etc. ) now basicly there 's no need to drive on the spanish road other than 20 o 30 metres , just as one gets closer to the mauritanian border posts. You have a good day Javier http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/826/minasmg6.jpg http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/4135/overallgy7.jpg |
Hello all,
I have included in my forum downloadable tracks and ... Have a look: www.desert-info.ch :: Thema anzeigen - MA-RIM - Niemandsland/No man's land/Zone neutre Best regards Ulrich |
Update: ECW-calibrated map from the no man's land out of GoogleEarth in high resolution no available. See link one post before.
Ulrich |
| All times are GMT +1. The time now is 21:14. |