INSURANCE
 

WOULD SOMEBODY PLEASE TELL ME WHERE I CAN GET GOOD INSURANCE? AND WHEN THE TREK GOES TOTALLY PEAR SHAPED! WHO DO YOU CALL? WHO GETS YOU OUT?

MAYBE CHRIS S HAS THE ANSWER......Please

Dave,

hopefully going in JAN, UK to TIMBUKTU via France,Spain,Morocco, Mauritania, Mali

Insurance...what's that?

Who's going to to bail you out when it all goes wrong? No one unless you're very lucky. The only person who's going to help you out is you. Being self reliant and having a positive attitude are prerequisites for such a trip. You can significantly reduce risk of things going wrong by ensuring your machine is in good mechanical condition, you have enough mechanical knowledge, and the necessary tools, to diagnose and rectify faults the machine may develop and that you are in good physical shape, with enough food and water for each leg of the trip you intend to undertake but, things can still go wrong.

Having said all that, things usually work out alright in the end. If you go with the right attutude you can turn even bad situations into something positive, probably! It'll certainly be an experiance. Relax and enjoy the ride.

Sure sounds like a great trip. LB.

[This message has been edited by mcdarbyfeast (edited 01 October 2005).]

Thanks for reply, But While I agree with your vehicle prep and spares etc, It can all go very wrong, you cant carry spares for serious accident or illness. It was suggested that GOOD insurance is good, as you can call the insurance company who might find it cheaper to get a Rescue going than pay out if you die. assuming you got sat phone?.. any further replies welcome..............

Dave, sounds to me as though you've got a touch of the pre trip nerves? Nothing wrong with that(I suffer from it big time!) It gets you thinking about every eventuality, some that you have absolutely no control over. I'm a big worrier and however many times people tell me not to worry, I still do. Once I'm on my way though it seems to just evaporate as all the planning comes together.

I haven't heard of such an insurance company but, would be interested to see any positive replies.

Good luck LB.

Thanks LB. Dont know that Im worried too much, might be nearer the time? Im just hopefully planning for all eventualities, from puntures to disaster, I will agree that vehicle preparation is paramount and being able to fix it. lets see if there are other reples,Thanks

Dave, Dorking

This may not be very helpful but I have to say the Sage of Gubblecote's first reply closely reflects my opinion on travel insurance and my attitude to desert travel.
We are better equipped, informed and educated than ever for this sort of travel and it is much easier and less dangerous than you think once you get underway. To paraphrase the Sage, a positive attitude and self-reliance may only be concepts but IMO, along with travel companions and knowing one's limitations, still have more tangible benefits in the Sahara than the promise of travel insurance.

Chris S

Whilst I agree about the vehicle aspects of the trip, nobody in their right mind leaves their own country without medical/liability insurance. To even suggest that such insurance is unnecessary is bordering on the criminally irresponsible.

Try www.flexicover.co.uk or for a list of various companies with different levels of coverage www.splut.com

Many thanks for your comments from Chris and Wilco,and all, This forum is great, It very helful to get different input from people, I will look at your insurance thing, Thanks Wilco. and thanks to you chris, I have totally read your book, made me very aware,very keen to go! and I altered my route after reading the first few pages, Keep it going Chris, starting to feel I belong to big Family...Good luck to you All, hope to see some of you in the "sand"

Hi Dave,
Try http://www.worldwideinsure.com/
They won't insure the vehicle against breakdown in Africa AFAIK but they look good for personal insurance, medical etc.
On the vehicle breakdown side most companies won't even insure my Discovery for Europe now as it is over 10 years old.
As others have said, you are really the only insurance that your vehicle has to come back home.
Best of luck, hope it all goes well.
Kevin, green with envy.
PS I guess you've got the name of a supplier that will ship parts worldwide, Matt Savage springs to mind, they got a water pump to me in Marseille when LR France couldn't get one for 10 days.

Thanks Kevin, all noted Guess your right about one being the Best insurance for your own vehicle, The shipper for parts is interesting. I will look into that, perhaps another good reason for Sat phone?

many thanks, Dave

All well and good in theory. Certainly when we set off you couldn't get insurance for Algeria, Mauritania etc. One insurance company actually laughed at us. Sure they'd sell you 'Wordwide cover' as long as you don't go anywhere out of the ordinary. Still that was couple of years ago, so maybe things have changed. As for vehicle insurance, if you need it you can buy it at the border but, it's probably not worth the paper it's written on and no UK inurance company would insure our vehicle beyond Morocco. LB.



[This message has been edited by mcdarbyfeast (edited 02 October 2005).]

Thanks again, so is it pos to get insurance for Morocco?

Yes you can get insurance for Morocco. I think insurance companies count Morocco as part of Europe for some bizaar reason, though I'm not positive. It may even be covered on your current motor policy. It's worth a call to your current company to find out. Remember though that they will probably put a limit on the period of cover outside the UK. My policy says 30 days but, yours could be different. LB.

[This message has been edited by mcdarbyfeast (edited 02 October 2005).]

yes that could be as I was told I dont need visa for Morocco,but will check with my Ins/company Thanks again,
Dave

Been sitting here with a glass of wine, listening to the radio, pondering over the subject of travel insurance, it's value, relevance and validity within the context of travel in remote areas of the world, such as the Sahara. There's nothing much else to do on a cool autumn evening here in Gubblecote. I don't have a TV and the wife is upstairs working on her thesis on 'Pulminary Stenosis' What? Don't ask me!

In the first place it's highly unlikely that any insurance company would insure a person riding a motorcycle on their own across the Sahara, the risk for them would be too great. However, let's say you found a company gullible enough to do so. You've paid your money for your travel insurance secure in the knowledge that whatever illness or accident befalls you, your covered for every eventuality. Your lying in the desert, somewhere between A & B with a broken leg. The likelihood is that your bike is knackered. You make a call to your insurance company (presumably you have a Sat Nav phone which is working correctly) giving your exact location (also, presuming your GPS is still working and you can give the correct coordinates) and inform them that as a customer of theirs you require assistance. You tell them of your predicament. What are they going to do? Send out a rescue party, a helicopter? I think not. The premium for such cover,if available, would be far beyond the reach of all but, the wealthiest of us. If your lucky they may put in a call to the local (within, say 500 miles) police who would have absolutely no idea what a GPS coordinate is. Sure, if your found in time and subsequently treated and survive your injuries the insurance company will pay for repatriation but, you have to be found first and insurance isn't going to help you there.


[This message has been edited by mcdarbyfeast (edited 02 October 2005).]

Well this has certainly got you thinking, and a glass of wine sounds good to me. I will be traveling in A fully equiped Range Rover overlander, and with at least one other vehicle, My sat phone has great GPS, It was suggested to me by a friend that if your insurred for a six figure number, the cost of a Rescue to a insurance company would be far less, even to perhaps send a Helicopter or truck, yes such insurance would be costly, But may be possible? no doubt the premium would be out of reach of most, I think that even if I had such insurance would not rely on it, but is it the case that if your stuck in the middle of Sahara alone you just have to Die?

I'll have another glass and think on it for a while. Have one with me? LB.

ok LB I will do that, I suppose some form of medical cover is good and one can live in hope that somebody else might be able to give you a lift to wherever to be repatriated? I am going to make enquiries andput results on here later mine is white medium german,
Dave

Why do people get so excited about travel insurance - because they think it will offer protection? All it really can do is save money. If it was so vital or useful it would be law, no?
I went through rescue scenarios with a loss assessor years ago for the book and concluded what I already knew: at certain times and places you are on your own and all problems short of outright fatalities can and must be solved. What use would insurance have been during my sticky moments out in the desert? None, but for first time travellers it can be a hard thing to accept when back home, everything from your roof downwards is, must or can be insured.

Ch

I see your point Chris, I guess we would all like that ultimate Safety line, That as you say is not there, all good reason for preparation a priority, I shall leave it there, thanks to all for input,
Dave

Hi, McDarby, you forgot to put one essential part into your scenaroi:
You call the insurance line and you get a machine, with nine menu choices!
My Iridium phone couldn't manage the handover from one satellite to another, so there's a cut off every ten or so minutes... get the idea ;-)

While my wife and I were looking at all that, we concluded that our normal car insurance is good for Morocco (Norwich Union) once in Mori we pay for a good night in a flash hotel with our VISA card and we're covered for three months from that date.
It's worth looking at the repatriation insurance offered with the VISA association.
After the three months, we figured that another card (my wife's) could get us another three.

Thankfully we didn't need it, despite a bad bout of typhic salmonella (hospitals in BF are pretty efficient) so I can't comment on quality of service.

Happy preparations.
Luke

Dave,
Despite the gung-ho advice being offered here consider the following:
1. If you have a problem and are aided by your mates etc. to get to a hospital/clinic whatever, most will not even give you a bandaid without cash up front. With no insurance this means wiring what could amount to several thousand pounds (assuming a major medical problem). Such a scenario could leave you in pain for several days. It happened only a couple of years ago to a high-profile Brit.

2. In the very worst case repatriation or disposal of your body will cost an awful lot of money. Do you really want your loved ones to have the added burden of finding the cash?

3. The thought that no insurance company will cough up for aerial search facilities is wrong. They do. That is why you take out a policy worth at least 5 million in benefits. Think back to that idiot Mark Thatcher getting lost in the desert for 3 days before an intensive search located him. His insurance company paid.

I can only think that people who advocate not wasting money on insurance are the type who care so little for their lives (or deaths) that they do nothing about life insurance/pension provision etc. Incredible in this day and age.

Specially nowadays insurance is a must.

Tourist's groups willing to travel in the Great Jamihirya by private cars will be soon officially requested to have one at he border from the country of origin or international .

Budrinna

Thanks luke, Interesting, still looking into it.. Dave

I'm sometimes a bit confused as to what people are referring to as regards to insurance. Do you mean vehicle based or travel based insurance? I'd suggest travel insurance is possibly more important. The financial loss of losing a vehicle is bad, but compared to the possibilty of being sued for hundreds of thousands of dollars it's a tiny amount. Most travel insurance has 'personal liability' and medical costs cover. I thought travel insurance was reasonably easy to find for any destination? But would it cover you if you killed someones breadwinner in a RTA? Or needed air vacced and weeks in hospital cos you were hit by a truck?
One other thing that occurs to me, has anyone ever had a problem crossing a border because their vehicle insurance does not cover them for that country?
Matt

Europ Assistance, got a guy into a private clinic and then top hotel in NKT (bad fall, broken collar bone and 2 ribs). Then flew him back first class with Air France, then taxi home.

We were crossing a sand-sea, no piste - and they had no issues with what we were doing (trail bikes in Sahara).

Standard cover gives all of that, don't know about it's availability to non-Belium residents, but I think the company is actually French - so they are larger than just one.

Last note, we self-extracted from the sand - the cover is fantastic, but has limits.

Sam.

The only time I have needed travel insurance was when I had in fact bought a very expensive policy from the best known expedition insurance touts at the time. I carefully read the small print before we left and it seemed that I was covered for green men decending in a space ship during the night, so thorough it all sounded. I had visions of air ambulances landing on some desert reg if need be.

The green men turned out to be the niger military who took us 2000 km out of our way to the capital in Niamey - a process which took 10-14 days (depending on where you start counting their involvement). Once in the capital, our passports were returned and we were 'welcomed to niger'. We were left with flying home and shipping the vehicle back. The extra costs were considerable.

Despite documentation of the event, said famous insurance company didn't want to know our plight. We got not a penny from them - just a scribbled note saying how sorry they were that the trip hadn't worked out as planned.

It all comes down to an assessors interpretation of events and whether the events qualify which, if you want, you can challenge in court. Good luck if you do.

I haven't bothered with the insurance scammers since.

Just had a look, Europ Assistance area also in UK.

Definately worth a look, I was very impressed with them.

Make sure that you write to them (ideally registered!) explaining exactly what you are planning on doing. If you send it registered, and they fail to reply by registered post, then you have them anyway...

Sam.

The evidence keeps coming in - its a comforting idea, but first timers using this forum should be fully appraised of its limitations in the wilderness. The job of assessors is not to pay. My friend was stabbed by a maniac in Asia, hospitalised and sent home. The insurance would not pay.

>3. The thought that no insurance company will cough up for aerial search facilities is wrong. They do.

Some may well do eventually - we'd love to hear about it - but who is going to organise this search in the first place? The Malian RAF who dont have 2 planes to rub together, or perhaps the Sand Sea RNLI? The idea that somewhere in the desert some palms flop to the side of a ramp and Thunderbird 2 comes roaring is a fantasy.
Sure you can get lucky with military patrols, oil camps and the like, but lost soldiers, ex-pat oil workers and Rally competitors are the only candidates likely to be saught.
Look how long it took the Algies to start searching for the abductees in 2003. There rels had flown out and organised their own ground searches at their own expense before any Alg aircraft was scrambled - famously using heat-seeking scanners on the baking rocks of the Tamelrik plateau...

>.... that idiot Mark Thatcher ...
Not the best example is it - the Boy Thatch paid 1000s to be in a Rally with the full support you'd expect, let alone the obvious advantages of his connections... Anyway, he was stranded out there with a French porn actress wasn't he?

>Europ Assistance
I was about to say EA and the like are only valid for lucky Continentals who can benefit from proper ins - but I guess not. I would certainly feel confident that a French organisation would have good conections in the dz.

Even 15 years ago a Swiss mate lost his TLC at gunpoint neat Tam and got the whole loss refunded; car, trauma, expenses. Now that's what I call insurance! Without paying a ridiculous premium, that sort of cover has never been available in the UK to my knowledge. I believe that since 9-11 insurance companies around the world have taken the opportunity to turn the screws/whack up premiums.

Campbell Irvine - who I used to recommend - seem to be out of the game now - or at least cite FCO places as off their map.

>they do nothing about life insurance/pension provision etc. Incredible in this day and age.

Never thought I'd see the P-word on this forum - now that is incredible!
When I first went to the Sahara some people thought that in itself was criminally irresponsible - they would actually get quite angry. Luckily, now that we can insure our washing against not drying on time, the world and especially the Sahara are much safer.

Seriously, 2 quid a day is not much is it, but all I am saying it's important not to take a domestic insurance mentality out to the desert - on an RTW trip for that matter. Some parts of this sorry world are simply beyond its range but it does not mean it is foolhardy to go there.

Ch

[This message has been edited by Chris Scott (edited 03 October 2005).]

I have to agree with your last statement Chris. Leading expeds into the Rubh al Khali 20 years ago I was very aware that we were breaking a little virgin ground and were totally alone. There were places we ventured that, had we all broken down (thankfully unlikely) it could have been generations before someone stumbled on us.

Hello Wilco,

So, no more claims of criminal irresponsibility?

Anyway, you seem to know a lot about the world of insurance. Any tips for us where to get the best deal on a pension plan, as we plan to live, albeit uninsured, for quite some time yet?

------------------
Roman (UK)
www.overlandcruiser.info

Well my little question certainly started something off,, who knows this forum might bring about what we need, I have had a reply from Flexicover.com who said that they could not cover a Land/Range Rover etc while one was in it and driving (this is for your vehicle insurance But might cover belongings inside when not with vehicle, as long as they were not in sight and covered up. interesting? need to look into it a bit more, as yet not found out about if they would launch a rescue, But I see the point of some in that if the trek was fool proof would it not be true adventure of such an expedition, I think my biggest fear is leaving behind my Pride and Joy and its bits even if I got airlifted out! Dave

I'm glad this important topic was raised and vigorously responded to - it has been interesting to read your opinions and experiences.

Now for goodness sake, let's get back to 'Morocco' ;-)

CS

I second that Chris!! Enough on the subject, we all get the picture,No more comments on INSURANCE!! Thankyou All who took part>

Like The Man says: Back to Morocco.. One thing I learnt from all this is where to find Fast compressers, thats from Matt Savage,I been searching ebay week after week having seen chris's DVD so one good thing came from it! I may not have the insurance i want But at least I can Inflate my tyres fast,bye for now playmates
Dave

Sorry to add one more message, Fellow Saharans! please do not reply to this message, as enough has been said, But I have been in contact with a company that will provide cover and mount a rescue if needed!(cost? hate to think) waiting for details and Im in communication with company, I will post details when finalised, but Please dont reply, just watch this space or later notice, Dave.

I was going to recommend Campbell Irvine until I saw Chris' point. They were good 2 years ago, but I don't know now.

When I went to Algeria with 2 mates, the only insurance we could find meant I would have to set up a company, insure it, be its guide and then the other 2 could get insurance as customers. I wondered, reading Sam's posts, whether that had been a condition with EA.

when planning to cross Australia on 2 bikes, we considered sat phones, but, after discussion with the outback police, plumped for an EPIRB (emergency position indicating radio beacon). we carried it through Africa, too, on the vague hope that the Tchadian RNLI might respond if required. I've no idea if they would, but it was a psychological crutch and probably as effective as insurance. my impression from my trips is that remote places require self-sufficiency and I'd be inclined, another time, to take a sat phone and have a mate or two in the UK who will do something to help.
does insurance = search? no
rescue? I'd say, probably no.
medical and repatriation? yes, but not without a fight!

incidentally, a mate broke his leg 10-20km from Djanet.
search = me = easy
rescue = locals = free
medical = £150 for 2 days in hosp incl operation
repatriation = £400 c/o Air Algerie
bike repat = £150
the lucky, lucky bastard!

my summary is that insurance is, paradoxically, worth more in the 1st world where you 1) will be sought 2) rescued and 3) expensively rebuilt and repatriated. its not worthless in Africa, but its limited and likely to be small consolation trying to get out of the sand sea.

Thanks, all points noted But I wont say any more
until I have all the facts and assurities, thanks for details, this item certainly does draw attention, sorry chris S, Hopefully I will have my answer soon, But of course even with Fantastic Rescue cover,You have to go as if you dont have it, Im talking vehicle preparation and expect to be on your own!!!

Dave

Actually I meant what I said in my last post above (the first line) - so keep it going. It was not my intention to stop this discussion.

Ch

Hi Chris,
I thought that after your comment lets get back to morocco that you thought enough was enough, well I guess if people want to discuss the item then its not a bad thing, I know that without all the gismo GPS and the like, crossing the Sahara is even more of an adventure without all the things to get us unstuck. But at the end of the day I would like that ace card in my pocket, so when it really goes life and death pear shaped, It would be good to make call from sat phone and get a rescue underway. having said that, there would be a sence of failure and I would much rather be able to fix the problem unless its Serious Medical problem, of course, I recived message today from insurance company who are waiting to hear from underwriters, I will let you know,
Dave

I would agree that emergeny evacuation insurance might not really necessary for something like crossing the Sahara. My buddy and I went from Alaska to Chile and crossed through tons of jungle and never once thought about satellite phones or insurance. That said, for absolute peace of mind of those that are a little bit less adventorous (i.e. my friend Alex)I think renting a Satellite Phone and Emergency Evacuation Insurance at www.internationalsos.com would be the affordable and should bail you out of any jam.

'a little less adventurous'?

It's exactly the same as climbing with or without a rope. The task remains equally difficult (adventurous?), but the result can be different if something goes wrong.

Sam.

If someone wants it totally safe and less adventerous, why not go on a package holiday, I believe SAGA go to Morocco and Tunisia. They're bound to do trips into the desert. I'm sure they would do a nice little safari or camel trek. LB.



[This message has been edited by mcdarbyfeast (edited 09 October 2005).]

Well my answer to that is next time you go to Sahara, dont take any spare parts. dont take spare wheels spare water, dont take jacks or ropes. That is a really good adventure and I would be the first to wish you luck. if you want to go without safety nets thats your choice, others like me enjoy adventure but I like living and if i got a rescue because it went wrong or was taken ill or one of my party, it would be good to live and try again, the world is full of Dead Heroes, not that I wish you to be one,I wish you and all others the best of luck despite what limit you put on safety measures! Dave

Calm down, calm down! It was a throw away remark which was supposed to be funny, which is obviously lost on you as you don't have a sense of humour. You need to chill out or burn out!

With regard to the topic of the thread, I've never said you should go without insurance, spares or supplies. I didn't say never make contingency plans or carry out a risk assessment before you go. At the end of the day, as an adult, you have the choice to go about whatever you do the way you want to and that includes your trip.

I wish you every success. LB.

Well there you go. I may well sign up for one in six years time!!

LB,
No offence taken, although it did look like you were suggesting that anyone who felt they needed insurance in Sahara should not go,but choose saga instead, Im not in my zimmer frame yet,(now thats a thought, 4x4 zimmerframe?) I started this topic off with a simple inquiry about insurance, something that Chris Scott felt was important to discuss, can you be honest and tell me that if there was an affordable insurance that would mount a Rescue should it be needed you would not go for it? , yes its last resort and and I would think only be used for a major Illness, accident with serious injury, or for that serious breakdown that leaves you stranded alone in middle of sand sea.
I was asked by the insurance company Im in coms with was I carrying safety equipment and what form of communication did i have, they are waiting to hear from underwriters, also I believe my sence of humour is among the Best, good luck, D,
ps
I wonder how many people are interested in such insurance cover, 0r zimmer frames

It looks like a good jaunt - no more worrying about dodgy diffs (just dodgy hips!)

Nice one Richard K, we could start a new club for the future, "Saharan 4x4 zimmer frame owners Club" bet Chris S would join, can you picture the zimmer frame? water jerry can on each side, not to mention the Kinnetic Rope!!!

Sahara Dave -- If Saga is a step too far there are organised, own-vehicle expeditions which probably offer far better peace of mind than any sat phone rescue.

It's a moot point -- because as Chris and others have pointed out, the rescue policy doesn't exist nor do the rescue teams -- but the idea of vast resources being spent to rescue tourists, who have over-stretched themselves on their adventure holiday, is a little uncomfortable when many of the locals are going hungry
as we type.

Australian and North American deserts are better suited to safety-netted adventure. They have the infrastructure to mount rescues. The presumption that money and a European passport can somehow insulate you from your environment is maybe the wrong attitude to take into some areas of the Sahara.

Standard travel insurance covers medivacs (in theory) and costs about £30.

edit: ...the more I read about that Saga trip...... I wonder if they take under 40's ?

[This message has been edited by Richard K (edited 09 October 2005).]

I remember doing this search before setting off.
Virtually all of the "standard" travel insurances had a clause in the small print saying that it was void if you drove. Some of them wouldn't cover malaria either (a bit off topic)

It's a shame that insurance underwriters don't reward a safe return home with a refund, like some event organisers who refund your helivac deposit if you don't use it.

The Visa cover seems to start when you start paying for your trip (hotel, fuel, ferry) and runs for 3 months.
On top of that, family seems to be a more efficient means of getting anything organised.

All it takes is one foolhardy individual to call in a rescue before exploring all the other possible solutions (or because he didn't take a spare clutch plate/spring/whatever) and the insurers reckon everyone will be as irresponsible.

Just musing...

Hi Guys, I see your point, If at the end of the day there is no such cover then so be it! Dont get me wrong, I,ll take my risks with the rest of you, trust in my vehicle, spares and ability to fix it, after all I was ONLY asking. and yet Im still waiting to hear from the insurrance that said They would mount a Rescue, the small print might be interesting, and yes we all know familys can do more, Come what may, Im going across the Sahara!!! dont forget I have read Chris S book, cover to cover.. what more do i need?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Luke:
[B]I remember doing this search before setting off.
Virtually all of the "standard" travel insurances had a clause in the small print saying that it was void if you drove. Some of them wouldn't cover malaria either (a bit off topic)

Luke, you just made me go blind sifting through small print!

Standard travel insurance should pay for a medevac home or treatment if, say, you fell ill with meningitis, or were seriously injured by an attacker. (look on the bright side, eh?). At £30 or so its a fair hedge against potentially whopping bills.

You're probably right, but I'm not 100% certain about self-driven vehicle accidents. I can't find any specific *medical* exclusion on the duinsure policy. You'd think off-piste 4x4 would be considered a declarable hazardous activity, but it's not listed as such -- motos, camels and ostriches (!) are. Liability is specifically excluded for all drivers, but I can't spot medical. Passengers would presumably be covered in any case.

http://www.duinsure.com have a special extension for expensive items carried in your 'safari truck' or campervan. Whether it's worth it or not I don't know.
I've made 3 separate property claims with various companies over the years and never got a penny. They just bored me into giving up.

I got my personal accident insurance from Roll Cage, 3-Point Harness & Co. Valid everywhere, no premiums and no excess!! (£150 on ebay)


[This message has been edited by Richard K (edited 10 October 2005).]

Does seem general consensus that even if there was such cover, it cant be relied on, so its as we were, "vehicle preparation paramount!" and put faith in your sand mat

Having read all of the above, I have to say that I am travelling with Trailmasters next April and the reason for this was simply the support I will receive during an accompanied tour. We should not get lost due to the many years this company has provided accompanied Saharah trips and also in the unlikely event I breakdown there is a support system in place to get me to a garage or somewhere to help get my vehicle fixed. Such trips are not everyones cup of tea I know but for those of us just starting out on our adventures, it is very useful.

Robin

Robin's right in a way, it's certainly a way of getting the hang of desert driving while taking away some of the risks.

It just grates me to pay someone for the privilege of driving my own car.
The safest way to travel independantly is to depend...on others. Travelling in convoy with other, like minded people will probably lead to the quickest resolution of most problems that might arise.

The surprisingly tricky bit is find friends that really are; not those that you end up wanting to strangle after x days without external contact.
The best ones we came across were those we met on the road.

I'm still particularly grateful for that chees sandwich just after we were robbed in Ghana... (Not a SAR I know but a welcome comfort)

All donations to this topic are appreciated, does anybody know of situation where rescue, was required? and what was the outcome? hardened Saharans like Chris S might know. Time somebody set up a rescue business, Flying Doctor comes to mind, obviously reason for traveling in multi vehicle convoys, and good old team work, maybe need to take out insurance against the company who does not pay out............... Dave

I dont even know why we're still flogging the dead insurance/rescue horse - several have correctly summed it up, most recently Luke: "The safest way to travel independently is to depend...on others..." If you're solo, face the consequences when they arise, as I used to do.

As tourists we arrive and travel better equipped to help ourselves than many locals who perish, literally, by the truckload every year.
RFDS planes need landing strips and anyway have become more of an outstation bus service. And even with the RFDS (who are doctors, not International Rescue) I would guess more outback tourists perish in Au than in the Sahara - because more go out ill-prepared/equipped, uneducated, solo and/or at the wrong time of year.

Avoid those things and all will be well.

Ch

Thanks Chris,
I think that sums it up very well, be well equiped and preparation, it does actually make it more of an adventure, so I for one am finished with this subject,

GOOD LUCK to you ALL..... Dave
ps, Chris do you fancy (later) 4x4 zimmer frame with Kinetic recovery rope?

An interesting and heated discussion. Have been pondering the value of insurance myself, but only with regard to medical cover. If I need medical help en route, I expect to be asked to cough cash up front, which I'd hope to be able to claim back on insurance later.
On theft: you have to remember you're carrying kit worth probably more than a few years salary for most of the people you meet along the way. A sensitivity to this is vital. Don't flaunt your possessions and be discreet. Don't expect to leave your vehicle and not have it tampered with. It'll probably be fine, but as a 'rich westerner' you ought to be prepared to lose what you can't keep your eye on. And, let me tell you, you're not safe in the UK. 2 Hoods tried to steal the racks off my roof a few months ago. Unfortunately for them, they are the solid Brownchurch variety and all the hoods got were the clamps before the weight of the racks got the better of them (and set off the alarm). Hah!
Bel

Ooops! Sorry, missed page 2 and see my sentiments reflected in Chris' last post.

Libya . Insurance
 

Following several deadly Sahara’s traveller’s accidents (bikes and cars) last 2 months outside asphalted roads, an all comprehensive return home damaged car is requested for individual or traveller’ groups with temporary imported means of private transportation. Libyan local compulsory insurance normally doesn’t cover this risk. This regulation is not new , and often not observed , but now there will be more attention on.
Cheers
Budrinna