how much petrol is too much
 

i plan on traveling from moracco to mauritania,mali ,algieria , niger to nigeria the down the coast to south africa ina 73' vw .is a 50 gal. gas tank and 3 5 gallon jerry cans of petrol too much .i should get about 15 to 20 miles to a gallon. and weight is a concern. also any tips on traveling the sahara (probally solo) in a two wheel drive would be helpful

It's rare to need more than 500 miles of fuel in the Sahara - elsewhere in Africa much less - Dont know what that is in US gal/mpg.

Are you talking a VW van? I've found they are the most common wrecks in the Sahara (from your van's era). So that means they were popular once but I presume dust and a rear, air-cooled engine slowed some down to a stop. Dont let the air filter fall off on the washboard.

Find a copy of Sahara Handbook (not 'Overland'). It's 20+ years out of date on much stuff but the authors used a VW bus to research the easier pistes. Plenty of advice there including usual repairs we dont seem to have to do anymore.

if you're talking Beetle then we saw one in the dunes once [the nasty section in Desert Driving, fyi] with a portal 181 back end, Jaguar wheels all round and milk crates for storage. Clearly a great set up if you're not in a 181 already.

Ch

its a beetle it was originally set up to run in baja . right now i,m building a type 4 air cooled 2.5 liter engine with a porsche 911 cooling system w/ external oil cooler the air box (cleaner) will be located in the car. heavy duty 091 bus transmission . double shocks in the rear and about 14 inches of ground clearence and a full bumper to bumper roll cage .going to build a roof rack for storage. do you know what of if any parts for vw's are advailable in africa? what are the conditions from tidjika to nema ?can a two wheel drive make it? where would it be best to find a guide for that run? do you think it might still be possible to get from Goa, Mali and go north to the border at Bordj Moktar then to Reggane in Algeria

Hello,

>do you think it might still be possible to get from Goa, Mali and go north to the border at Bordj Moktar then to Reggane in Algeria?

Goa(mali) - Tessalit - Bordj Baji Mokhtar is still possible. But recently clashes between Tuareg and Army had been reported (near Anefis).

Bordj Badji Mokhtar - Reggane is not possible actually, the piste is closed for tourists. But the piste to Tamanrasset is open. An alternative is to take pistes and offroad directly to In Salah. In the Algerian Sahara a guide is required.

Regards, Yves

do you know what of if any parts for vw's are advailable in africa?
no but someone else will

what are the conditions from tidjika to nema ?
v sandy at times but I did it in 88 - may be more of a track now

can a two wheel drive make it?
I suppose if you recce ahead and know where/when to gas it - but you'll still get stuck a lot. TBH that route sounds a bit ambitious. Try the railway route to Atar first - if you find that easy then Nema may be OK.

where would it be best to find a guide for that run?
Tidjika I guess. By Tichit it was already v sandy (in 88). Or go with a patient 4WD.

do you think it might still be possible to get from Goa, Mali and go north to the border at Bordj Moktar then to Reggane in Algeria.
Mali has its good periods but I hear that the Reggane route is closed now in Alg - shame as it would be a piece of cake in a VW. BBM to Tam is allowed and is doable in 2WD too.

Ch

so it seems that reggane wont be possible .can i get a guide at the border (Bordj Mokhtar) to go to In Salah ?any idea what a guide would cost or where to find one?

Hi Marko,
>can i get a guide at the border (Bordj Mokhtar)
well, first you need a visa - do you allready have one? If yes, you will find a guide in Bordj Mokhtar, the police or Gendarmerie will help you.
If not, the usual procedure is to use the services of an travel agency. Minimum cost is about 500 EUR to cross Algeria.
The piste BBM - Tam is easy, even for a 2Wd

Yves

hi there! Yves, no i havent got any of my visa,s yet. i not planning to leave til 7/09 but will be getting a few of the visa i need here in the U.S and the rest when i,m there.but ,i have been doing as much planning and research as possible now, no sense in waiting til the last minute i,ve been wanting to do this trip for a long time.what about insurance? would have to get that at the border for each country or is there an insurance that will work for more than one country?i have a feeling its not too different from when i go into mexico. where you purchase the 3rd party insurance at the border. when you hire a guide do you need to use a travel agent in algieria ? thanks for all the information , i really appreciate it marko

3rd party insurance at the borders.

Kilometre for kilometre, NDB to Atar to Tidjikja, is probably as tricky as Tidjikja to Nema, If you can get that far then you'll know whether or not to continue or flee for the tarmac. There are guides with Toyotas available in Tidjikja and currently plenty of petrol.

No reliable petrol in Tichitt or Oualata, so you would need to carry it or pay for assistance. There are tracks nearly all the way to Nema, but they can blow over and are easy to lose. Off-piste things get interesting quickly. A lot of sand.

In 2WD it would be an endeavour. People have, but... How light is your VW? Every kilo hurts. Maybe leave the cage, doors etc. at home - or build a bare-boned rail instead ; ) Happy planning - would be nice to see a pic of a Bug at the Elephant rocks!

thanks richard, the cage is welded in to the car so got to keep it and the weight of cage equals out with the stock parts that have been remored or changed to fiberglass now,but as far as weight i was planning on having a 50 gal petrol tank. i think thats about 200 liters plus 3/5gal jerry cans petrol and 15 gals water.so thats around 650 lbs.plus everything else,surf board (for Moracco and South Africa),tools camping gear,extra parts and spare tires should be carrying about 1400 lbs fully loaded with my fat butt included. the engine and transmission are being built with the weight in mind and it will have alot of torque. but what it will do when loaded and in the sand i dont know yet.luckily, i live near the Mojave dessert where we have all the conditions i think i will encounter.so this summer i will be testing the car.i guess i could go without the extra 15 gals. of petrol and weight of the jerry cans. am i,m worrying too much about running out of petrol or not being able to find it in a town more than i need to? marko

200-220 litres total fuel capacity should be more than enough and you will hardly ever have to fill that. To spread your bets you might want to fit a smaller main tank and carry some jerries.

In Morocco petrol is no problem. In Mauritania it is sometimes hard to find, but you can normally rustle it up from somewhere. It is used as fuel for domestic water pumps so if pushed you can get a litre here - a litre there. Mali is moto country - generally everywhere you find people you will find petrol, at least South of Timbuktu. The prices might shock you though.
For Algeria and Niger someone else will be better placed to answer.

If you get a chance post a pic of your VW.

hello , here are some pictures of the bug its under construction. but there is a picture of my last engine that i threw a piston rod threw the top of the block and a picture of the engine that is being built now... marko

marko's space

Just one question Marco,

How in the name of God are you going to carry all that fuel and water !?

Are you trying to do a non-stop run down to CPT ?

I think just a couple of jerry cans as extra would be enough.

Surly the VW can't be that heavy on fuel?

i was going to have 50 gal fuel cell built. it goes where the back seat was and into the luggage area. right now there is a 24gal tank there .and i was going to have 3/5 gal jerry cans with water and another 3/5gal jerry cans of petrol. i want to go from Tidikja to Nema (probally the longest distance between towns or chance for fuel if there wasnt any in Ticht) and i belive thats 805 kilometers around 600 miles. I,m guessing at 15 mpg thats 40 gals. of petrol . so ,yeah 65 gallons is probally too much, from all the information eveyone from this forum has given me.but if i kept the 24 gal tank and caried 3/5 gal jerry cans it would only give a range of 585 miles.and thats just not quite enough.the car might get better gas mileage but until the engine is finished and i can take it out to the desert here , i,m guessing on the gas mileage and trying to figure out what i will need in fuel capacity cause i dont want to run out but i dont want to have too much extra weight in fuel that i dont need to carry. thanks marko

Hi Marko:
Don't count on that route being only 805 km long. Probably you'll do some more, most of all in a 2-wheel drive. A 2.5 petrol engine will suck lots of fuel as you will often have to revv it heavily. I don't think 200 liters is too much, it's better to err on the safe side, although Mauri was full of fuel drums when I was there last February (leftovers from the late Dakar rallye) and I bet you will find it in Tichitt and Oualata. But what if you don't?

And carry a good shovel and lots of patience, it's likely you will need both. As Chris wrote before, if you do well from Nouadibou to Tidjika then go ahead and give it a try, but if you struggle to make it would be more sensible to take the sealed road.

Good luck,
Pedro

o.k thanks. i was also plannig on having a small winch that i could put either on the front or the rear depending on the situation and a large spike to ankor to. make sense or not ? also there is an old off-road trick Rod Hall used with a length of old conveyor belt, cabled around the rear tire and to the rear bumper. so once you got out and momentum up it dragged behind you til you got on stable ground. has anyone ever use it? i,m not very computor literate so could any let me know if your able to pull up the pictures of my bug? thanks marko

Yep the photos work. Looks like a good project - are those 2.5" Fox's on the rear?

A winch is no use. There is nothing to winch from.

More useful is a set of 4 sand plates, alu or GRP (they are often wider than they need to be so you could buy 2 and then cut them down the centre to save weight); a bottle jack with something to use as a base and a good foot pump. Low tyre pressures and patience are the best recovery tools. Helps to be mentally and physically ready to dig.

Fuel-wise. Once you know your consumption in soft sand I would break the normal desert driving rules and calculate exactly what to carry within a fine margin of error. Leave the contingency behind.

Why? Struggling with excess weight at the start of this piste is more of a liability than the risk of running dry toward the end. As long as you can reach Oualata with certainty you are safe and can always arrange for fuel to be brought from Nema. After Oualata the going is comparatively easy.

so you dont think a winch with a long steel spike to drive in the ground would work? and i was thrown a little of with the bottle jack, first thing i thought of was a bottle of Jack (Daniels)and i,m sure that would help in alot of situations but not digging out of sand . what are the laws on alcohol are they really strict on it at most borders ? my shocks are Fox 2.0 with nitrogen res. double in the rear and single in the front. for tires i,m going with the Yokahama 31/700/15 in the front and B.F.G 31/10/15 all-terrain in the rear.is it better to go with tube or tubeless ? is there any advantage either way? and as far as fuel economy i wont know til i get a chance to take the car to the Mojave desert where there is alot of dunes and soft sand to test it in.all part of the fun! thanks marko

Classic!
 

:rofl:
Two nations separated by a common language!

These people weren't in a bug, but you might peruse their site or drop them a line about parts.
Overland in a VW Camper (Westfalia) through Mexico, Central America, South America, and Africa


Lorraine

You can use your winch and a good anchor (forget about the buried wheel trick!) and you will get out of any hole. But they are very heavy (55-60 kg), you need another guy to hold the anchor, and there are very very few situations in which that would be the only way to get out.
I've carried a Warn winch and an ARB anchor in my Wrangler for the last 5 years and I have used them many times when stuck in mud or snow with no rocks, trees or another car around, but sand is a very different game and almost every time a bit of digging and a couple of plates (I prefer the lightweight syntethics over the metal ones) will get the job done faster and with less fuss.
I don´t carry a winch in my 110 and I have never regretted it.
Pedro

In 90% of sand boggings - my guess is no. Try it in the Mojave and let us know! Maybe in rare cases and with a specialist ground anchor - but like Pedrofconti says, the weight Vs. reward equation doesn't add up.

Pack one of those too - the weight Vs. reward equation is good. There are searches and confiscations at the Mauri border however.

Tubeless. Better at low pressures, no friction flats and thorn punctures are easily plugged. Inners in the spares box just incase. We use run-in BFG MTs which are tougher than AT's on rock and good in sand once the 'grab' has gone. Same size front and rear is practical.

thanks everyone for your input. Lorranie didnt get much info from that site but sounds like they had a great trip. they did have a smaller engine and more weight with that van than i will . so i feel much more confident with the set up i will have,also that couple lived only 5 miles from me. looks like two plates and a shovel should get me out of most anything .and richard i will definitly have a couple of "Bottle Jacks" stashed somewhere (know what i mean) and you feel BFG mud terrains over all terrains, is that because the tread wraps the sidewalls?

Sand digging and Bourbon.
 

Please, keep in mind that a test in the Mojave is not gonna give you that much information. Both places can be quite different in sand characteristics, rock formations etc.
Besides being in the middle of Mauritania, surrounded by hundreds of miles of sand and rocks puts you in a quite unusual state of mind, both fascinating and vulnerable.

- The BFG MT will give you some more needed protection on the sharp rocks you will encounter easily buried on the piste. They are great in sand at low pressure.

- Have you read Sahara Overland ? Plenty of good advice and great bed reading.

- As Richard and Pedro say: every kilo really counts. Both in weight and space, specially in an small vehicle.
Probably best if you think as a biker.

- I'd put a new clutch on the vehicle and/or carry and extra one. That thing is gonna get hot.

- RIM fuel can be low in octanes. I'd carry some octane boaster in order to use less fuel and keep the engine happy. Also extra on-line fuel filters.


A digging a day keeps the doctor away !

--Richard K: do you miss the sand ????

AT's are good in the sand and on the tar, if you have them already, stick with them. They are a lot of people's first choice, but they do have a tendency to crumble on sharp surfaces.

Buying for a long Saharan trip I would go with MT's. The compound is tougher and the more open the tread becomes with wear the better they work in sand.

Hi Lluis, to be honest I'm still shaking it out of my ears (Mauri 08 ) but already starting the build up to next season...

i havent bought the tires for the trip yet .but will go with the MT,s on the rear. but,they wont fit in the front so i,ll stick with the Yokahomas on the front.how bad is the fuel ? i,ve kept the compression down to 8.5/1 with the expectation of low octane petrol. i will also have the type of fuel filter that seperates water from fuel. is there anything else i might need.i have an electric fuel pump with 2 spares for back up. how well do Sat. phones work in the Sahara? thanks marko

Sahara Satphones
 

Both Iridium and Thuraya satphones will work well in the Sahara. Since you are based in the US you may find that you can only get an Iridium before leaving - they are more expensive, more fragile (I keep breaking or losing the antennas so make sure you pack the magmount car antenna too - you can use the phone holding the magmount antenna in the other hand!) and the signal is a real pain in towns - but in the desert you should find they are fine.

A Thuraya is a much better phone for Africa - the geostationary sat is over Mt Kenya - so just point the antenna towards the middle of Africa ie, if you are North of the Equator then stand facing north while calling - then the antenna points south past your ear and straight at the satellite.

The Thuraya has GPS built in, and can send the GPS location by SMS to another phone, as well as doing SMS to any normal mobile. It can also take most GSM SIM cards, so your normal number roams onto the Thuraya network. And the modern Thurayas have bluetooth & do GPRS data to satellite. Iridium can just about do data, but very slowly and they took out the Infra-red port for some reason (the window is still there, but no receiver behind on later phones) so you have to have a bulky serial adaptor cable, and a laptop with a serial port or a USB-serial adaptor.

I wouldn't really bother with any of the other satellite phone services, for Africa (& east as far as Indonesia) the Thuraya is the best bet, if you need something which works everywhere (including the poles) then Iridium with it's moving satellites is the solution

Hope that helps

Tony

As Tony Tea says, Thuraya is the best choice - and it's what the locals use.

The fuel generally isn't that bad, octane booster should cure any pinking you might get. We had 2 high-compression 450's on our last trip and they both ran fine on the local brew.

The expensive fuel funnels that separate out water are a waste of money imho, and turn filling into a messy business. I've invested in them and wish I hadn't - a piece of fine gauze and a cheap funnel is all you need. When buying a big batch, its prudent to pour 500ml into a clear bottle and see if there is any separation, but tbh I've bought thousands of litres of diesel and petrol in the area from all sorts of containers and never had serious problems.

-Thuraya, the past model : 7101, can be found en ebay for less than 500 eu or used in Thuraya shop in Nouadibou or Nouakchott for less than 350 eu, all basic things included, of course you get that price after some talking and a bit of patience.

- Cheap on line transparent filters do the job. I dont know where the dirt was coming from, perhaps the tanks breathers? but the filters do get very dirty out in the piste.

Maps of RIM 1: 200.000, and other places:
http://www.mi4x4.com/cartografia.asp

useful and beautiful

VW to Dakar
 

Hi,
I did the Plymouth Dakar Challenge a couple of years ago in a 1972 1300 Baja Bug. The longest section without access to fuel was Dakhla to Nouakchott. We did the desert/beach route. I had the standard tank plus 3 ex MOD standard jerrycans and needed every drop of fuel.
Incidentally, the bug was the only 2wd I know of that had zero punctures and never got stuck in sand. Others all suffered multiple flats & were forever getting bogged down.
Cheers,
Pete

hey pete, glad to hear i'm not the only one to do the Sahara in a VW bug. how much petrol did you have? how far is Dakhla to Nouakchott ? brave to do it with a 1300, not much power or touque. was the car modified anymore? here are some of the old pictures and some new ones, showing the engine (2.5 L) the tranny after instalation and the disc brakes. hope you like them. car should be on the road the end of this month (sept/08) marko marko's space

Dakhla to Nouakchott
 

Hello

I can answer the Dakhla to Nouakchott distance question.

From the last cheap fuel station in Western Sahara (which is north of Dakhla at the top of the peninsula) to Nouakchott using the new tarmac road is approximately 350 - 400 miles.

It is a little less than this if you choose to go over the desert and down the beach (which is the old route before the new road was built), however fuel consumption will rise because of the soft sand.

You can fill up just outside Nouadhibou, but that takes you 30 miles or so west which might be in the wrong direction if you want to go directly to Nouakchott.

Many travelers stop off in Nouadhibou to pick up insurance, local currency etc. It is a grim little town, but there is at least one campsite.

Cheers

John

Thanks John, i actually plan on going from Nouadhibou to Atar then down to Tidjikja and on to Nema from there. I hope to stay off tarmak as much as possible. Ofcouse it will all depend on how well the car preforms in the sand. But i dont believe there will be a problem. thanks Marko

There are more petrol stations between Dakhla and NDB. At least 4. For example at the hotel about 80 km north of the Morocco-Mauritania border. Just about every 200 km, but sometimes more often. Fill up whenever possible, sometimes the next petrol station ran out and you don't want to get stuck out there.