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HbG to Amguid or Gara Khan (A5, A6, A10)
HbG to Amguid or Gara Khan (A5, A6, A10)
As you may have read here, the checkpoint at 4 Chemins may be blocking access to the routes above. This was the case in late November - there was a barricade over the piste out of 4 chem - closed due to smugglers, it was said. Later I met a French guy later who avoided 4 Chemins by going west along the Oued Irharrhar (after the first descent, more or less 28 23 / 6 40, easy he said) and then down around Gour ben Houilet ('Hassi M' map, IGN 1:1m) and on the Gara Khan or Amguid. I also met some bikers in Djanet which were allowed to go out of 4 Chemins. When we came back out of Gara Khan via BoD there was no problem and I seem to recall the barricade across the piste was half missing compared to one month earlier. If they ask at Hassi bel Guebbour say you're going to the warm spring just down the road or to BoD for your health. From BoD/Zaouia Sidi Moussa you can cut out west (latter part of A10, pretty sandy) and pick up the routes for Amguid or GK. There was no checkpoint out of BoD. Indeed, as with me, at HbG they may request you take a soldier back to BoD which will give you a perfect excuse to breeze past 4Chem and out of BoD once you've dropped the guy off. If they don't let us past the barricade we'll be trying the Oued or BoD option in a week or two. Chris S ------------------ Author of Sahara Overland and the Adventure Motorcycling Handbook, among other things http://www.sahara-overland.com |
And on reverse , if I want come from Amguid to go to HBG , is it a problem ?
Where ? After Amguid or just befrore BoD ? Thanks for your responses Roro |
No probs coming back this way (into BOD) a week ago.
Going down, the guards seemed to change their stance each day as we met some people who had been refused and some that hadn't. On a tangential note - if you do end up going via tarmac East from HbG towards In Amenas, there's another excellent hot spring 61kms from HbG (about 3 km north of the road). Well worth a stop! |
As Ollie says - no probs coming back north into 4-chem, and maybe less going south by now
(btw, i think we passed you going down the Gassi Touil, Ollie - I take it you had a good loop ;-) CS |
Thanks Chris - yes, had a great trip. Had a suspicion that that was you, but by the time I'd realised we were too far apart to stop!
Shame really as you could have saved us a day's buggering about trying to start route A5 - the military at HbG told us that the only way down to 4Chemins was to go E on the tarmac and then SW down the piste shown on all the maps. Don't advise taking this piste - it's rough rubble all the way (70km in 3 hrs). The hot spring at Hassi Tabankourt is worth a stop. We ended up driving down to Djanet via the tarmac, as did most others around the same time as us. Beautiful drive, and the smallish erg just S of In Amenas is a lovely overnight camp, lovely red dunes, would have liked to explore further but travelling on our own decided was not an option. Incidentally fo anyone heading down soon, the stone-throwers are out in force in the Souf region, but it seems to be worst just E of Touggourt, rather than between El Oued and the border. So don't think you're through it all until you're past Touggourt! Cheers Ollie [This message has been edited by ollieholden (edited 08 January 2003).] |
....and the smallish erg just S of In Amenas is a lovely overnight camp, lovely red dunes, would have liked to explore further....
That's Erg Bourharet (or one of its names) a lovely spot indeed. Camped there in 88 and the dunes have not budged an inch, interestingly. Met the crew there to start filming this time but it was too cloudy so we moved on. fyi, overnighting at hassi Tabankort is mosquito central, I'm told - but amazingly none at the one south of HbG which was bliss under the stars ... My stone throwers tip: open all windows and wear a crash helmet. CS |
What is the best solution to prevent stone- throwers :
Travelling at night ? ( possible ?) Having "plastic films" ( I don't know the English word ) on windscreen ? Other solutions ? Thanks for your answers , I'm worrying about that ! Roro |
I read somewhere about a couple that had carved and painted a rough copy of an AK-47 out of available bits of wood. They cruised through villages with that showing in an open window, not even a pebble.
Rally style plexiglass windows are light and don't break easily; alternatively mount full length sand ladders at window height for that "Securicor" look. I don't know yet as I haven't experienced it, but stone throwing is one of those little things that preoccupy the trip planning for me too. Other ideas welcome. Thx Luke |
The stone throwing bit is not that big a problem. Relative by both risk and outcome, there are much bigger things to be prepared for!
If you are very unlucky, and one is for the driver's window, have it closed and buy a new window afterwards - better than actually being hit by a stone whilst driving. Sometimes tucking in behind a lorry means that the kids can't see you coming seems to work (but then you are an easier, slower target!!). It one of those things, there are more important things to spend time and money on... Sam |
What are you supposed to do if they start throwing stones and you're on a bike?
Anyone experienced this? |
I agree with Sam, it's a small worry from small kids and not a Biblical hail of stones as some may imagine.
CS |
... stopover and ...
They're probably already far away. Or looking trough your window for a candy. |
I agree that there are more important things to think about when you're planning your trip, and don't think it's worth worrying about plastic windows etc. However these kid are throwing fairly hefty rocks (ie the size of half-bricks) which put sizeable dents in your car and if they hit a person you could be putting your trip at risk before you've got to the good bits!
Prevention is best approach - only drive through when you know the kids are in school or asleep; or sandwich yourself between some local cars. Or, drive very slowly and eyeball them. Anyone know why they do it? The adults just sit back and watch!! |
"have it closed and buy a new window afterwards"
1. To Sam : Do you think it's easy to buy a new windscreen for a Defender in Toggourt ? What can you do without it ? You say "closed" , but if the window is open it can't be broken . 2. To Ollie : When the kids are at school ? I remember my last trips , it seems to me they are on the road all day long ! Is it possible to cross El Oued and Toggourt at night ? Thanks for your posts Roro . |
You could always go across the Erg and pop out on the plains.
Andrew. |
I had a window (Defender) break (through heat!?) in 2002 crossing a running (30m) oued at Ideles. Got to Djanet without the window - not exactly a security problem in the meantime - and bought a sheet of perspex. Cut the it to shape of remaining window, fitted it to runners as a replacement and 'voila!' (even went up and down smoothly!!). Replaced it with glass in the UK.
Sam. |
"I remember my last trips , it seems to me they are on the road all day long !"
I also have found this - forever promenading. they are.. but half bricks sounds worse than before - could be the Iraq thing CS |
the road is fully open now.
if youre on a bike ... duck. something the size of half a brick missed Neils head by inches. I used to ride straight at the kids and roost them on the way past but, while it scares them into dropping the stone and running away from me, it probably provokes them for others. the worst Ive seen was in Bordj El Haoues the other day ... 6 year olds with no understanding of the consequences, trying to hurl house bricks. I dont like speeding through town but get through fast and be first through if riding with others |
Heeey..
When there is a lot of kids with stones then stop your bike, remove your helmet at once - and SMILE!! Don't worry with just a little bit practise it feels completely natural to smile to the locals. :-)) Don't make it unnecessary hard for them, yourself or the next traveller.... |
Ali Baba,
I take it you have not tried this technique in the villages we're talking about. It's not going to work. The kids will expect hand-outs (as has happened in the past), when you don't give them the expected pens/money/sweets etc. they could (with reasonable disappointment) get angry and you are blocked in. If you do, they will expect more and more (there will be more and more kids) and you will make the problem worse for yourself and those following. Unfortunately, it's same sort of problem you find in all places on tourist 'through-routes'. I am sure that the majority of independant travellers are masters of being friendly and correct with the local population but it's not a perfect world. Sometimes the ideal is not the best course of action. Sam. |
Sam,
You are partly right, I haven’t been in ALL the villages you are talking about. I did only go the villages at A5, Djanet-Ideles, Ideles-Tam and Tam-Arlit. Found fewer kids with stones there then in Chad and Ethiopia. After more then 50.000 km in Africa on a bike I have never had problems with the locals that couldn’t be solved with a smile. But I have heard all kinds off stories from other travelers, (mostly) in 4x4. As a rule people don’t hit or throw stones at smiling people, it’s more likely that they throw stones if they feel insecure, angry or disappointed. Smiling is the best cure I know, works in Europe too :-)) Most people understand (or you can make them understand) that you can’t have unlimited hand-outs driving on a bike, and therefore they will not be too disappointed. The way travelers are treated by locals is often based on the behavior of previous travelers. You say “the majority of independant travellers are masters of being friendly and correct with the local population”. Well, I guess I have had bad luck then or maybe it depends on the definition of “correct”? I think the problems would be reduced if: -Travelers stopped giving hand-outs directly to local people. (Educate beggars are not our job anyway) -Don’t high-speed through villages leaving nothing but a cloud of dust and maybe some dead chickens. -Travelers tried to understand and talk to the local-people. Hmmm, how to behave when we are travelling doesn’t seem to be a big topic in this forum. I don’t find it strange but I do find it sad... Happy travels AliBaba |
Ali Baba,
At the risk of pushing a point, you haven't actually been to ANY of the villages we're talking about. I agree with your points, but I'm not sure the situation on this particular stretch in the north is salvageable - only (max) 20% of the tourists passing through (and there are A LOT) read this forum. I will not be stopping to chat next time I go through - by stopping, you risk a lot more than a broken window or dented wing. There are exceptions to every 'rule', let us know how you get on when you do this route! Sam. PS the problem is exacerbated because of proximity to the border. People are wanting to get into Tunisia, or as far into Algeria as possible (the less time in the north, the better). Stopping at every village (and there are a good 20 or so) takes time. We don't live in an ideal world - it's a reason, not an excuse. |
Sam,
Sorry I thought you were talking about the A5, A6 and A10 area, cant find any place-names connected to the stone-throwing. After all you said this was a problem “in all places on tourist 'through-routes'” so I can’t see your problem here when I did A5 (A6 and A10 are hard for unsupported bikes) and a lot of tourist-routes? Maybe you were talking about the area between Tunis and Touggort? If so I stopped there as well... Personally I have never understood that people go to places where they don’t dare to get out off the car and talk to local-people. But heeey, it’s a free world.... Time might be an issue, but at what cost? None of us would have liked to live at a rally-field, for them the situation is even worse. Anyway, I wrote the post to focus on the fact that the treatment we get from the local people usually is based on the way we treat them. Happy travels AliBaba |
To Sam :
"Got to Djanet without the window " Without a window , OK but without a windscreen ? ( Parebrise in French ) And in Djanet , is possible to buy that ? What is perpex ? I prefer to buy it in Europe ( if it is possible ) Thanks for your responses !! RORO |
For a Defender, polycarbonate windows are a good option. They scratch (so not good for windscreen), but it is VERY hard to break them, even with a heavy hammer. My parents had them fitted to their Land Rover. I would like to where to get them from, though!
For the wind-screen, I was thinking of mounting a fold-down outer screen with an in-cab cable-release. I would hate to travel with it down all the time, but if you see kids about to throw stones, or get into one of those scary situations with some crazy truck-driver overtaking you on a stony verge, you could let it flip down, until it's safe to get out and clip it back up again. It's easier for me to do this because I have a body-overhang over the cab (a Luton, I suppose). Ali Baba, I quite agree qith your sentiment - being friendly is generally the best way of handling it. But you need a strategy for handling it when things are genuinely nasty. Michael... |
Are we really so scared that we're building pantsered vehicles to travel in the Sahara?
Is it wise to go to those places where you think you can't travel safeley trough without a pantsered car? |
if pantsered means reinforced then I'll stick with riding a bike a relying on dodging the missiles while trying to keep on the good side of the locals.
I was chatting with a great guy in Djanet about the problem of stone throwing. I've never had trouble in Djanet, but, as I said above, I was terrorised by 6 year-olds with house-bricks in Bordj El Haoues. Nadir's view is that the "local" nomads have been herded into towns and told to live in houses, but not been told how to behave. they're not used to travelling at speed and they don't understand the damage that a rock will do to a car, bike or, worst (IMHO), person. Nadir would agree that education is the key, but stopping to smile, chat, educate makes you a slow target when you set off: both Neil and Martin were buised by rocks as we rode away from a seemingly smiley, friendly chat. frankly, it puts the willies up me to ride through some villages ... I prefer precipitous mountain passes and feche-feche where the rocks lie in wait rather than, potentially, hit you at head height at 50kmh. |
Whooooooooooooooooah!!
Can others who have driven through these and other areas confirm that this is a very minor problem, confined to a few small areas! Anyone still unsure, though, should look at : http://www.model-policecars.co.uk/help.htm - go to the bottom of the page!! Don't worry about it, you'll be fine! (95+% probability). Replying to 'Roro', perspex is a trade name for clear plastic sheet (about 6mm thick). The same could have been used to temporarily replace a broken windscreen. Sam. |
you're right, Sam. I am giving a bad impression of a few turbulent villages. its not funny being a target, but I've only been hit once out of 15-20 projectiles that I've SEEN in 13,000km. I do, however, keep the speed down so stuff will hurt less!
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Im looking for advanture, so I like to be hited by brick by 6 years old Being a brick target is better then being a sniper target.
OK, seriously: It will be my first time down there. I see everybody is having his own solution, but as I see the best is to smile and give sweets to the kids. They will get what they want, and you will get what you want(peace) In Europe you pay toll in Algeria jou pay with sweets. It is fair. |
Quote:
- drive sloooowly - get in visual contact with the kids, smile - weave - and don't give them "cadeau", you will make it worse for all travelers after you. Bye, Yves P.S.: some nice images of Sahara: http://www.redjem.ch/Foto/ |
"Wave and smile" was our policy (in Tunisia). Result - one dented car, and lots of mock stone throwing. No probs in Algeria as we went over the dunes at the border.
Andrew. |
What an interesting subject !
And what different responses ( thanks for that) May be it will be interresting to change the title of the thread ( --> " Throwing stones " )? But I have a question without response : IS IT POSSIBLE TO TRAVEL ACROSS EL OUED AND TOGGOURT AT NIGHT WITHOUT PROBLEM ( POLICE OR ? ) Roro. |
I've never tried it, but can't think of a reason why it would be a particular problem.
(This answer only of some use if nobody has done it!!). Sam. |
Just a last question : I've seen on my windscreen the words "Triplex" and "laminated" (It's not true for my other windows ) .
Does it means that a stone can't broke it ? (it can only make a kind of slit). Thanks for your responses . Roro . |
Laminated glass is generally two sheets of glass with a tough plastic sheet sandwiched in between. It will generally crack and wobble a bit without forming a hole.
Toughened glass is the more usual windscreen one which shatters into bits max. about 10mm (and you find more of every time you clean your car afterwards!). I'm not sure which Triplex is - maybe a 3-layer laminated? I have actually learnt this from kids throwing stones, albeit overnight at items of "plant" here in the UK. Excavators etc. generally have toughened when new, but in my experience laminated is the best replacement for this reason, so I guess it would be best also at withstanding African stones. One other point (for flat windows) - Laminated can be cut "off the shelf", but toughened has to be cut and then heat-treated, so generally has to be ordered. Toughened's usually modestly cheaper though. Funny, I read this thread before, but it didn't occur to me that I had had some stone-throwing experience! ------------------ ichapp.users.btopenworld.com |
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