French Carte Gris
 

Wondering if anyone has been in this situation.

We'll have a carte gris that will have been crossed out with 'vendu le (date)' on it. The vehicle has the old French govt. plates currently & it could be difficult timing & cost issues to get it re-registered in France before we leave. However it will have had it's controle technique (whether it passes or not!)

I read on a blog from ?2012 that someone had gone down to Benin via Mali with a similar carte gris. I'm wondering if we'll be able to get into Morocco for starters then obviously Mauri & Mali with this type of carte gris.

We're also looking at the other possibility, registering the vehicle in Cote d'Ivoire prior to it being in-country, in which case we'll have CD plates & life will be a lot easier. But this is a long shot.

Anyone able to offer recent experience of doing the same?

Thanks

No experience except to note that Moroccans can prove remarkably alert to falsified or inadequate vehicle documentation. They're thoroughly accustomed to all the evasions practiced by Europeans, too. Plus: they like to sprinkle roadblocks and document checks along the main route south.

But best you get a better-informed opinion than mine. I'm really just here to say hello and offer my best wishes for your continued efforts in Cote d'Ivoire.

Mark

Thanks Mark, hope to see you with us in CI one of these days :welcome:!!! We will look after you bier

CREER

I think I can help here, but probably more of a hindrance. I`ve been dealing with registration issues on vehicles in france for a few years.

From what you say I take it this is an ex military vehicle, which is still Govt registered. If you are given a CG which is crossed with the sale date and time, the vendor will/should (by law) send off their copy of the Certificat de Cession ( Bill of Sale) to the prefecture noting that this is now a civilian vehicle for first registration. They will take the military plates off , so It won`t have any reg no at all. The vehicle is flagged as Unregistered on the central system until the new owner registers it with their copy of the Cert de Cession and the crossed CG. This must be done within 1 month of the sale transaction, or exported.

As it will have never been registered there won`t be any detail for insurance companies,/ as there will be nothing on the data base . You can not insure a vehicle without your name ( or company name with supporting documentation) on the Carte Grise. If there is no CG and no registration then the vehicle technically doesn`t exist.The only way you can move it on the road is on a trailer or trade plates.

You will have to register it as a civilian vehicle whichever way you look at it. If you are not a French resident you won`t be able to register it in France anyway, and you will have to export it and register it in your country of residence. Exporting ex military vehicles may require a licence, as it does in the U.K.

If you are buying from an agent ( like Lys-tout), they should be able to help you with all the paperwork.

Thanks for the help

I'm a French resident & work for the government. The vehicle (which also worked for the govt. but not military) is on an old departmental N plate.

We're waiting for the full documentation & according to my CT garage, I will be able to drive it to the garage providing that it's insured & has an appointment with my CT garage who I've known for 15+ years.

So, we are waiting to see at work if we'll get the CG with 'vendu le ...' or 'cession' - one of my superiors is doing his best to make it an easy route for us. However, if we can get it out of France on that CG it would make it easier for us to get it to Cote d'Ivoire, apart from border controls

I've always imported my own vehicles into France from Germany or Spain so know the 'usual' ropes but as this won't be on the road for long in France, we need to find the easiest & cheapest option to get it south. We're very close to the Spanish border which makes life a little easier to get it out of France.

Thanks again

I don't think an unregistered plate can ever drive the European roads whatever someone tells you. Be aware of insurance risks also. The proper way would be to get French export plates and get it insured. As being said, don't underestimate the Moroccan capabilities for checking documents. Anything happen on your way without correct papers will bring serious trouble and you could even end up in jail.

Thanks Birima but as I mentioned it won't be un-registered as such, it will have plates on it, as per the one I've already read about that went down to Benin via the same route.

I've done this route before but on foot, I'm also lucky enough to be working for the Mauritanian govt so I shouldn't find a problem there. But I do believe there's a law about this or the Benin-bound vehicle wouldn't have got through, hence I'm asking for recent experience.

Thanks again

Very good, I hope your journey goes without problem. I am leaving soon also and will call you whenever I get in trouble in Mauritania, unfortunately we cannot have a beer overthere, or?:D

Unfortunately it's off limits & you'll probably experience a thorough search!!!

Luckily for me most of my work for them is elsewhere in the world and not there, but feel very happy that I do have them to help out on this trip!! :D

So back to the question ... anyone got recent experience with a carte gris in another's name?

Thanks

Not exactly the same situation but similar enough perhaps.

We own a Hobby MH in Germany, but can't register and insure it because we are not EU citizens, so the company we bought it from "manages" it for us. We have a document in German that is basically a receipt.

Going into Morocco, customs noted the discrepancy between the vehicle documentation and our personal details and asked for an explanation. Luckily they accepted the german receipt and he asked me to write my name under the company name on the import documents. Had exactly the same temporary problem coming into Turkey a few weeks ago. Also same problem taking a different vehicle into Mexico and the same problem taking yet another vehicle out of Argentina. All because the vehicle documents didn't have our names on them.

Brilliant, thanks TonyLEE bier We'll owe you one if you ever come our way!!!

So I'm thinking if work write us a letter as well to confirm that it's being donated to a NGO then we 'should' be ok ... Plus we'll have all the NGO paperwork with us to prove the connection!

Great stuff

At least yours will be in French so that should make it easier for them in Morocco.

Don't know the system in France, but in Oz we have legal documents called Power of Attorney. Spanish and South American have PODER and the Americans have Notarised document. All of which allow a legal owner to assign control of the vehicle to another person

I had a couple made up by lawyers in Buenos Aries so I could get vehicles out of the country and had one translated (by Google)

My Montan LLC (company) actually owns the vehicle so I as director have to give myself as driver, permission to have the vehicle.

I also included a photo of the vehicle.

Underneath that was our signatures as directors and stuck to the back of it was the US official notary document.
The more red stamps and company seals on it the better.

That or something essentially identical has worked in the 5 cases I mentioned and is quite common in S America where foreigners regularly sell vehicles (illegally) to other foreigners where the complication is that the vehicle entered the country with one person who then gives permission for the new owner to take it out of the country. Then there is usually some sleight of hand involved in swapping license plates and paperwork in no-mans land. Still illegal but usually works if done correctly.

Of course that doesn't solve any problems with unregistered vehicles, but half the foreign owned vehicles running around SA are technically unregistered (no MOT or disc, SORNED, no TUV etc etc you name it) but get liability insurance anyway and as long as they are never involved in an accident, they get away with it.

BTW Do any of the transit countries on your route insist on you having a CARNET rather than doing it with a Temporary Vehicle Import Permit. If so, that might be very hard to arrange.
ADAC issue them.

Don't you have temporary export plates in France?

The Moroccans are on the lookout for stolen vehicles. They want to know that you are the owner of the vehicle, or have the right to drive it and documents to prove it. They will worry less about the limits of the carte gris or the visite technique.
Insurance is easy to get if you just give them something similar to a carte gris, for Morocco, then Mauretania and last the carte brun to cover the rest of the journey.
After Morocco it will be smooth sailing.

Insurance in France covers Morocco anyway, so we should be fine there

Interesting question I'd never thought about - export plates - I've never seen them ... will ask at my Prefecture & see what the answer is!

Still waiting to get the documents ... at least with those in hand we know our situation!

Thanks all

@Creer, I do not know if this helps. I traveled two times to Morocco and down up to Mauritania with motorbike owned by another person. Before the travel I visited with owner state Automobile Association and bought official licence to drive that bike. In Mauritania nobody asks about ownership (2011).

You can find beer in Nouakchott in China or in Moroccan restaurant, both close to auberge Menata or French embassy.

Thomas