Erg Occidental
 

Dear hubbers

Any suggestions for routes or guides for a 10-day trip in the Erg Occidental? We'll probably fly on Algiers an go by public transport to Ghardaia or Timimoun. We are a group of 7 people and would like to hire 2 or 3 cars.

Thank you!
Hans

visas
 

Hi Hans,
If you get visas for your group, please let us know how.

My group is waiting for Algerian visas since 27. XII. 2010.
We planned to drive our cars, used Tanezrouft to get invitations. As far as I know our visa documents are still in Algiers.

Maybe flying in and hiring cars would be a solution since Algerians seem to avoid tourists in their own vehicles...

Regards

Tomek

Do you think you can't obtain your visa because your group is too big?
I've read on Chris Scott's Sahara Overland ~ The book and the website that it's not easy but not impossible....
RR.

We didn't start looking for visa, but we're not intending to drive ourselves so maybe (hopefully) that will make things a little easier. We're renting cars over there.

But any suggestions about routes would be nice ;)!

Tomek,

Did you pay already the 10% deposit with Tanzerouft for the invitations?

This seems pretty unreliable system and it means you will be out of pocket if the visa is never obtained. Also it means that Tanzerouft end up with the unrefundable 10% deposit for doing nothing but sending a letter of invitation to the consulate/embassy.

Something smells fishy here.

Incidentally we are very interested by your situation as we obtained an offer from Tanzerouft for them to provide the letter of invitation. But I don't want to be stuck for 12 months, we plan to enter Algeria in November with our own bike... it might be a bit tight, I want to hedge my bets and not lay out too much money.

Thanks for any insights.

I thought a good route through the western GEOc would be to follow the flat areas south from Taghit, then turn east across some occasional cordons and then south along a line that leads to Timimoun.
I cant recall if I made this up looking at Google Earth, or if it was based on previous routes - I think the latter. I have not done this route.
Flying over the GEO into Adrar last Feb, parts of it did not look like places where driving a 4x4 would be much fun, although if you look at the picture I've posted to show this, there is actually a sanded-over exploration road winding through there.

Hiring self-drive cars locally, forget it. Flying and and sitting in the back as part of an all-inclusive tour, easily done.

Ch

Hi Hans,

Apart from that visa issue, the best part of Grand Erg Occidental is between Taghit oasis and Timmimoun. Check any map our book, all that route is nice.
Good luck.
Rui
Portugal

What are the distances between petrol stops, anyone know where we can get reliable info on unleaded petrol in this region?

Thank you all for the input! I've been looking at pictures of the area between Taghit and Timimoun and indeed it looks very nice. We've been driving ourselves on previous occasions, but for this one just sit back and enjoy the ride seemed like the best option anyway :). I'll let you know how things work out with the visa's...

They'll have it up north but there is no UNL in the Algerian Sahara (anywhere south of Ghardaia) last time I looked.

Ch

size matters?
 

Hi Roro,

We wanted to go in two cars up to 8 people. I don't consider 8 people to be a big group but i may be wrong...

Regards

Tomek

visas
 

Hi Pascal,

Yes, we have paid it.


We still have a slight hope that eventually we get these visas, but if we don't we will ask for refund.

I do not want to accuse anybody of anything without a proof.

How did you get visas? Which frontier post are you going to choose?


Regards

Tomek

When Tanezrouft sent an invitation to the embassy in The Hague last january by fax, I got my visa within 2 days......

2 cars is not a big group, for sure.
I don't understand where is the problem with your application considering that some other people have obtained their visas quickly with Tanezrouft.
RR.

We haven't applied for the visa yet, we are waiting for Tanzerouft to provide more detail on the Itinerary and confirm travel dates, that's why I am so anxious.

visa
 

Hi Hieronymus,

Did you go in your own car or did you hire 4x4 in Algeria? Where did you exaclty go?

Regards,

Tomek

We drove our own cars from Ohran to Tam and back, you can read about it at:
Chris Scott - Algerian Sahara 4WD tour report 2011

Hi Tomek,
if you did not obtained visa within a few weeks then you will probably not get one this time.
From my time as Tanezrouft representative I only remember 2 cases of visa refusals (on hundreds successful ones). And visa had still been granted to other European customers in 2011.
I expect that you will need to reapply with a new LOI to have any chance at all because the procedures changed. However, I can't help with it any more because my primary employment does not permit any more.

visas
 

Hi Yves,

You might be right.

The thing is that we haven't got even a refusal yet. In Warsaw we were told that if we get a refusal we would be able to ask for refund of visas fee.

If only we knew the reason for not giving us visas we would definitely try our best to avoid such situations in future. Unfortunately we do not know the reason.

Could you please tell me if Tanezrouft can provide us with new LOI as we have already paid 10% of the fee. Can people from my group who might not able to go for next trip ask Tanezrouft for refund of these 10%?

Regards,

Tomek

Ohran to Tam and back with Chris
 

Hi Hieronymus,

I read it some time ago. Lucky you! :funmeteryes:

Got our visas today!!
 

So a quick update on our visa situation for Algeria.

We applied on the 12th September here in Switzerland and now, as of today, we both have our tourist visas for Algeria!!

Algeria HERE WE COME!!! bier

We will enter from Taleb Labri border by motorcycle from Tunisia and leave from Ghazaouet by ferry to Spain. We are riding two-up (Riding2up) and we are using Tanzerouft as guides for the whole trip taking 9 days to cross Algeria.

Tanzerouft faxed a letter to the consulat/embassy for us and it was relatively quick given other reports. So I don't know what the fuss is all about, were we just lucky. I don't know. But the true test will be when we arrive at the border with our beast of a bike and the tow of us...

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-1...0/IMG_5433.JPG

We will update our blog and probably post some pictures here on the HUBB as well.

That's good news.

Have fun and ride safe.

Tomek

P.S. Don't forget to share your best photos with us;)

Getting back to the OP about a 10-day in the GEOc, an Algerian tour op just spammed me this itinerary - it may interest some people. I have not tracked it on map and dont know 90% of the places listed, but it look like it goes into the GE from Metlili at the east end (south of Ghardaia).
Looks like lots of nice old ksars in there, too.

Ch

J1 - Taleb to Ghardaia (that would be a l o n g day...)

Jour 02 -: Metlili - Lemneikel - Abaza - Hassi Ouled Zeid

Jour 03 -: Hassi Thaldja - Dayet Soueid - Guern Laghouati

Jour 04 -: Hassi El Mer - Guern Bent Bouhamama -Selslet El Maleh - Diba

Jour 05 -: Mkamat - Oued dahab - Hassi Aicha

Jour 06 -: Fort Zaouiet Debagh - Semaouta - Hadj Guelman- Kssar Keddour

Jour 07 -: Visite de la ville de Timimoune et des Kssours et jardins. Nuitée Camping

Jour 08 - : Hassi Saka - Moul El Kendous - Mercheg Echems - Lehzeima - Hassi El Baroud - haouda ou Guedar - Hassi Sedra - El Atrous - Mabrouka

Jour 09 -: Hassi Guern Cheikh - Sidi Mhamed - Nebka - ElGolea repas après visite dl'église, musée, lac, vieux ksar. Nuitée Camping

Jour 10 -: départ tot pour les frontières arrivée à 13h.00 taleb laarbi pour la Tunisie

And something about any escort by gendarmes for this tour?

RR.

I think not. Like I say I have not traced it on a 200k map but I suspect to takes a loop around the eastern GEOc (all off road) and comes back to Ghardaia area to go back to Taleb (just a guess). So it does not enter Adrar/Bechar wilaya - or if it does, no one sees it.

Ch

Someone know where are the hightest sands, in Grand erg Occidental or Grand erg Oriental ?

I would say at the southern end of the GE Oriental - from what I have seen around Hassi bel Guebbour.

The northern sand seas are usually lower, right across the Sahara (except Erg Chebbi) - I think because they are less arid.

Ch

you will find the highest dunes of Algeria in the Erg Tiffernine. It is very difficult to drive. Unfortunately it is closed for Tourism since 6 years.

Ah yes, I remember Tifernine. Very big dunes. Those were the days.

Ch

Is there in Algeria an equivalent of the lybian erg merzuk ?
Cross this erg should be a great experience !

there is nothing like Erg Murzuk in Algeria.
I would say that Issaouane is the one which comes closest (it is closer to Erg Ubari) but much smaller in extension. Regarding degree of difficulty Tiffernine tops the Erg Murzuk considerably even if it is smaller. Only very few 4x4 and drivers will be capable to drive in Tiffernine. Don't expect any agency to drive Erg Tiffernine.

Maybe not the highest dunes in Algeria, but still impressive: Erg Mehajebat

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l1...C_0697_074.jpg

photo: reggwensie

Spectacular picture, it's your personal picture ?
Some others ?:thumbup1:

@Chris: could you send me some more details about the tour operator that made the suggestion about the 10 day loop?

I was in touch with Mer de Sable in Timimoun for a trip in the desert, but we get the impression they either don't understand what we want (because they keep offering nights in hotels or small daytrips into the dunes) or they're somewhat hampered by the authorities. So anyone with suggestions for a 8-10 day loop and/or a reliable guide would be more than welcome!! We don't want to go further south than say In Salah.

[QUOTE=hansgruyaert;354667 So anyone with suggestions for a 8-10 day loop and/or a reliable guide would be more than welcome!! We don't want to go further south than say In Salah.[/QUOTE]

it is difficult to set up an 8-10 day loop north of In Salah without dipping into towns. There is plenty of desert, but it is difficult to drive in because:
1) the sand seas in the north are exposed to wind from multiple directions (they get the cyclonic influence of mid-latitude depressions, rather than the steady, uni-directional trades which make for long dune corridors). So the dunes in the north are tricky mounds of inter-connected sand.
2) The Tademait plateau lies to the north of In-salah. Here it is hard to drive off road because of the rocky nature and incised landscape.
The best bet north of In Salah latitude might be west of Reganne in the northern bit of erg Chech. I don't know if this is permitted though.

Driving across the desert south of In salah is much easier - the desert opens up into big plains, bounded by mountains. Dunes tend to align with the wind. Corridors are wide.

How tall is a dune?
 

It is easy to loose your perspective in the sand. At Moul Naga going to Tin Merzouga, east Tadrart
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-E...0/DSCN0314.jpg
My pal made a silly bet he could climb that dune. How far - half a mile? ;)
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-d...0/DSCN0329.jpg
These dunes are trying to engulf the Tassili n'Ajjer. The little speck, if you can see it, is my pal, half an hour later.
Shortly before he gave up.
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-7...0/DSCN0331.jpg
So how tall was it? I guess we'll never know
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-o...0/DSCN0328.jpg

Hi Hans

the company called itself ATS which could be Amina Travel Services, and his email was
slimani abderahmane" tourdusud2000 x yahoo.com

Ch

PS: now we know why northern dunes are smaller and mixed up. Not to do with humidity as I thought.

Thank you Chris for the email, try that, but i assume you don't know them? We're a bit reluctant to go much further south than In Salah because of safety concerns. I'm travelling with my 3 year old daughter so don't feel like taking unnecessary risks, desert traveling should be fun right. But maybe our worries aren't justified?

@Richard: so a loop from Timimoun south towards Reggane somewhere to the west of the main road might be an option then? On my michelin map the area is marked 'Tohat'?

@priffe: great pictures of Tadrart, reminds me very much of Akakus (but then again, they're somewhat neighbours). Remains the most beautiful desert scenery I've seen so far. But that's where the Italian got kidnapped earlier this year, and of course chances are slim, but that's the kind of pressure i don't want to carry along.

A loop between Grand erg occidental and the Mzab valley would be very nice to do also.

Hi,

About security I'm not sure that safety is better north of In Salah than south (ie. Ahnet and between IN Salah and Tam).
Am I wrong?

RR.

I agree, Ahnet is a great area for the real thing, but still far enough from the border areas. There are man spots I would like to revisit after our car tour there in Feb. The route is here.

I am not sure tourists are allowed west of the Reggane highway (Erg Chech).

Ch

The traks of this map not exists in the IGN maps, is it off road traks ?
Possible to do off-road in this area ?

Most IGNS are 40-50 years old, there are many more tracks out there now, but out of the mountains you can of course go where you like which we did in places.

We had a really good guide on that trip too. The video is here

Ch

There was a request for pics. There are some here:

https://picasaweb.google.com/Reggwen...eat=directlink

Just for your information: ATS who spammed Chris with the program is not Amina Travel Services but (Algerie) Tour du Sud, they're based in Ghardaia and up till now have been responding very fast to our emails and seem to be able to deliver the kind of program we're looking for ;).