Algeria again
 

I have received some news from a traveller who crossed south Algeria in September .
He gave me some interresting infos after he came back :
1. No problem to have a visa : same procedure then last year ; an no probleme at border post : no guide is mandatory
2. there are convoys again beetween El-Golea and In-Salah ( On Sunday and Wednesday ) and beetween In Salah and Tam ( on Monday and Thursday ) ; It is impossible to quit these towns without convoy and you have to wait for the day of departure of the convoy .
3. Barrages in Ouargla,El-Golea,In Salah,Tam + Arak's Gorge and Moulay Hassan .

The mood is not very good in the south due to the lack of tourists
No infos now for the road to Djanet .

RR.

Wonder where this traveller got his (or her) visa. In Niger or Mali? Or somewhere else?

Greetings,
Gerbert

In France , with a ordinary invitation ;
I've phoned to Algerian consulate in Lyon (France) : same procédure than last year .

Things seems changing fast since your last phonecall. See Yahoo explo 4x4 .

Not sure !
I've phoned YESTERDAY to Algerian consulate in Lyon : SAME PROCEDURE AGAIN to obtain the visa
(Same info in Grenoble)
It's difficult to know what to believe but I think that NOW nothing have changed .
And for the future the most important thing it's what happens at border post : is the presence of the guide mandatory OR not ?

Hi. What about leaving Tam. to Arlit? Are there any convoys? Or can you quit Tam. to
Niger without a convoy?
Thanks,
Bram

From the same traveller who gave me the infos about convoys beetween El Golea and Tam : No convoys after Tam ; so you can go to Niger in the same manner than last year .
(He was going to Agadez to make a loop in Air)
Can you tell me which trip are you planning ?
Thank you very much for your response !
Roro.

Budrinna,
Yahoo explo 4x4 ? What's the actual name of the group?

------------------
Roman (UK)
www.polandrover.com

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Roman:
[B]Budrinna,
Yahoo explo 4x4 ? What's the actual name of the group?

Explo4x4@yahoogroupes.fr-

Here it is a very well know and read forum on Sahara. French one.

If you understand french you can also see saharian infos on :

www.sahariens.info/spip_sahara/

And if you understand Italian go to

http://www.sahara.it/cgi-bin/ubb/ult...ubb=forum&f=11

to have infos about Algeria

Nice trip !

Roro .

Shukran Jazilan (Thanks a lot)

I've got an info about obtention of algerian visa on the Italian site : If I understand well , it's the same procedure than last year ....
"I visti per l’Algeria sono arrivati, rilasciati con la medesima procedura, cordialità e puntualità (3 giorni) dell’anno scorso da parte della sezione consolare dell’Ambasciata Algerina di Roma.
Giuliana Fea"

"Yahoo explo 4x4 ? What's the actual name of the group?
Explo4x4@yahoogroupes.fr"
---------
A more useful adress is:
http://fr.groups.yahoo.com/group/Explo4x4/messages

(as linked from Sahara Overland News Page)

it is currently the main French Sahara forum while Sahariens.fr is down

Ch

Sahariens is up again:

http://sahariens.dyndns.org/

Yves

]Sahariens is up again:
sahariens.dyndns.org/[/URL]


Thanks to Yves and sahariens for the clear exposition of the procedure to obtain algerian visa. (now almost like in Libya)

(now almost like in Libya) ?

I don't think so : I know some travellers who have obtained (these days ) their algerian visas with only an invitation and no guide is mandatory at the border post ( until now ).
I think that algerian tourist agencies want that all tourists travel with their guides from border post to border post but not the authorities .

News from south Algeria:
- no importation of GPS, mobilephones and Binoculars by tourists allowed
- all Amguid pistes closed for tourists
- very few tourists
- No guide after border required, but tourists are strongyl advised to have their itinarary confirmed by the autorities!!!
- No off piste for tourists
- Guide cumpulsary to visit touristic sites in the Djanet area (Tassili N'Ajer National Parc)
- rumor: Algerian military camp near Mali border had been atacked recently
- often helicopters in the air
- heavy rain falls with lots of damage

Bye, Yves

[no importation of GPS, mobilephones and Binoculars by tourists .... are strongyl advised to have their itinarary confirmed by the autorities....No off piste.... Guide cumpulsary to visit touristic sites in the Djanet area (Tassili N'Ajer National Parc...military camp near Mali border..often helicopters in the air...

WHAT ELSE MORE !!!!

The question now is not to believe or to think but what to do ? And before this linea makes new proselytes in others Saharian Countries . Suggestions -If any and that can travelled over - very much welcomed .

To Budrinna :

"- No guide after border required"

For me it's very important : I want to go to Djanet all by myself and after take a guide for a loop in South algeria

Roro .

To Budrinna ?????

I can foretell the future !

What I can do for You if You really wanna go " all by yourself" ???

My perso suggestion is : to go,- the soonest the better- check the matter,and if You like or possible reports us the trip outcome in order to enable all to evaluate
if it can be feasible or suitable to evade this new disposals
Here and elsewhere, this no respect of the law in general is always possible since .......

PS. I will no answer anymore to this matter as uselees to the forum. Salam !Budrinna

Good God! Is a spare tyre allowed ?

I was hoping to join a bunch of people early next year for a trip there, , but am wondering how serious these guys are in prohibiting the use of such very basic items.



------------------
Roman (UK)
www.overlandcruiser.info

I would be interested to know where people on bikes are supposed to hide all this stuff - seriously.

I think the news is actually quite good:
mobiles and binoculars were always 'interdit' and easy to hide anyway, GPS is unnecessary on the clear pistes you get in Algeria - those that are open that is (off piste, where you might want GPS is now interdit and it sounds like you might get spotted). fyi, Amguid is the site of an army base that is probably now busier than it used to be.
"Guide cumpulsary to visit touristic sites in the Djanet area"
This was always the case (tho sometimes ignored). About 15 years ago we had to to pay a park entry fee at Bordj el Haouas...

So, with some pistes open and no guide demanded at the border the only bad news seems to be the weather ;-)

Ch

Hi Roman,
yes they are very serious about it.

If you enter an leave DZ at the same border post, customs will keep theese items for you during your stay. I you're on transit, then your're stuck...

I don't expect teese rules to change until the end of the next elections in spring 2004.

Yves

Good God! Is a spare tyre allowed ?

I was hoping to join a bunch of people early next year for a trip there, , but am wondering how serious these guys are in prohibiting the use of such very basic items.

</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree with Chris about news from Algeria and I hope that paranoia will fade away in the next monthes !
Can somebody give me more infos : If I decide to go Djanet via Ghat ,do yo know if this border is (now) open for tourists ( to enter in Algeria , I know that to enter in Lybia is impossible ).
And what about the Gps at this border post ( in your humble opinion )?
Thanks for your infos !

The post frontier of Ghat is usually closed in both way for the tourists.
With a valid motivation - (of course the tourism intent is not accepted ) it is possible anyway to cross the border only in direction from Ly to Dz and accompanied by guide( usually police frontier's guides) .

This kind of permit must be requested -and accorded -in advance to/by the police station of Ghat trought the agency that invites the group - minimum four - and is officialy encharged to follow all the matter.

At the entrance time in Libya - Ras Ejdir or airport- on the questionaires to be filled it must be specified that the exit will be trought Ghat customs .

All the operation is expensive, also in time required, and very difficult to perform .

I have done this trip several times and always following this official procedure or directly with the police authorities - but in this case You must be resindent in LY and this is not your case.

Budrinna, I was just about to apply for a visa to enter Algeria from Ghat. (I have today faxed Zeriba for an invitation with this itinerary.) From what you say this is a waste of time.

If entry from Ghat is forbidden, can you suggest which entry point I should put on my visa application?

Hi,

Until the kidnappers are caught, I'm convinced the so called "paranoia" is justified (I would better call it Caution).
You're much less free to go where you want to then in the past.

Is is not a bad idea to follow: http://www.algeria-interface.com/new...dispatches.php

To cross from Ghat to Djanet you should talk with the Libyan agency you will need anyway for getting your visa. Normaly, one way Ghat->Djanet is possible for tourists - or at least had been in the past.
For the GPS: negotiation could work.

Good luck, Yves

Well I'm torn between two schools of thought: (1) the kidnappers succeeded in getting their ransom so they will do it again (2) there are now so many military patrols in the area that it is a relatively safe time to go. What's your opinion?

I don't think the kidnapping was a real succes tey like to repeat: too many people and material were involved over a very long time and everybody is hunting them now (to get them or the money if payed). The local contrebande business had been disturbed.

It doesn't matter if a ransom had been payed or not: the rumor is enough to think about kidnapping as interesting business, even with only 1/100 of the sum mentioned .

I think the risks in the central Sahara (not limited to DZ!!) are more:
- simple bandits go into kidnapping and robbery ("arresting" tourists for some days and release them after "payment" of a car is not unknown in the past and could become more frequent
)
- military, surprised by tourists in unexpected situations will shoot without warning (happened once in DZ in 2001).

- terrorists, pursued by military will take hostages as human shield.
See: http://www.algeria-interface.com/new/rubriques/french/depecheafp.php?doc=031 031102259.ds6gqy0q.xml

- a new, unexpected action by terrorists

In DZ tourist groups are said to get armed escorts depending on the situation even for a simple trip in the Teffedest area.

This said, I don't consider traveling by your own vehicle in central sahara, on normal pistes as in remote areas, actually as a sensible adventure. The risk could be limited by close cooperation with locals and local authorities.

Yves

[This message has been edited by Yves (edited 01 November 2003).]

After reading an article from 1.11. in the DZ newspaper El Watan it seems that the kidnapping was more succesfull then I estimated. The risk of terrorist activity against tourists (but not limited to) in the whole central Sahara from Mauritania to Niger and Libya bigger then I mentioned above - and I seriously considder postphoning my trekking trip to DZ planed for this winter.
With the money from the ransom the group of 84 terrorists who once left Algeria to Mali is said to have grown to about 200 men, with their head quarter in the Gorges de Tekace abour 300km from Taoudeni (does anybody know this location?).

A link to the article and an international press abstract:


http://www.elwatan.com/journal/html/...1/sup_html.htm

"Al-Qaida is building secret bases in the Sahara in north Africa with the help of Algerian extremists, Western and Arab intelligence sources said Monday. The Spanish daily Periodico De Catalonia quoted the sources as saying the Sahara, stretching between Mauritania and southern Libya, has become a base for al-Qaida. "We know that many things were taking place in the Sahara which is under the loose control of the Algerian and Libyan armies and the armed forces of weak countries like Niger, Mauritania and Mali," a U.S. diplomat said."


Yves

[This message has been edited by Yves (edited 02 November 2003).]

[This message has been edited by Yves (edited 02 November 2003).]

That's a very big area for 200 men to terrorise. Don't you think the chances of meeting them are very low?

It depends whether they are looking for you or not, there are lots of spots were tourist pass with a very high probability.

Yves

I appreciate Al Q need new bases now that Afghaistan is out, but like I suggested somewhere before here - for the moment at least they are in countries whose govts (maybe not people) are hostile to their presence which must limit their mobility, and as we know, the local contrabanders wont didnt them bringing heat on the area either (although they could come to an arrangement with AL Q)
I dont feel they are based in the Sahara to terrorise tourists (what few there will be) but because it is a remote area where they can to their 'training' and whatever..
While they might nick the odd passing TLC, that's nothing new, but another hostage stunt would really get up peoples' noses,even if the money is potentially great.

It is the Sahara after all, now less safe than it was recently, but where isn't?

Ch

If their Gorges de Tekace HQ is for real I cant believe they are not going to get 'Tora Bora'd' one of these days...

Hi Chris,

>I dont feel they are based in the Sahara to terrorise tourists

I agree. Goal 1 - money - had probably been achieved kidnapping tourists.
I think that now they prosecute other, their genuine, goals but wouldn't exclude "colateral damage" to tourists.

This subject is highly speculative, so please don't take my writing as absolut, more as a contribution to a kind of brain storming assessing the situation.

Yves

To Nick Horley

Entrance in Algeria - for tourists - from Ghat border _ The only one possible as also Ghadames is closed- has been always difficult and submitted to previous ok from authorities since years -

The way - Ghat Djanet easy and short - is infact mainly used by militaries and it is under their rigid control (Both countries) .

Cannot say more as I did always with official permit and as resident in Libya .My perso suggestion is to get first the permit
from both DZ and LY as the is to get stuck is high.
cheers

Thanks Budrinna. Ghat it is!

I had roughly been informed from sources in Algeria, that a new regulation for tourists traveling individualy by car/bike is out.

Basically it is said to be the old regulation from the 60's to late 80's based on pistes categories A, B1, B2, and C.

C will only be allowed with 2 vehicles and a guide.

Permit necessary for pistes B to C, no fuel without permit.

Without permit: judgement and expensive penalties.

Hope to get more details / official infos soon.

Yves

That makes sense to revert to the old system which I think they let slip. Do you think we can we assume that the A-C piste classifications are the same as they were (in the Eckert/Du Mont book)?

Ch

I'm not familiar with the old system, so can you tell me how this affects the visa application procedure? Do you have to put all the pistes you want to use on your itinerary?

To Yves : I believe you but how I can be SURE that these infos are official ones ?
To Chris : I don't know this book ; I have a french book (guide of Sahara;Hachette;written by 3 travellers where this classification is described from 1979 to 2000 . It is the same , I believe .
Thanks for your infos !

Roro.

To Nick, just apply for the visa and hope you get it - the piste permits you sort out locally if anyone asks. It's not a big deal.

Ch

Hello,

>how I can be SURE that these infos are official ones ?

Go to Dz yourself and try it out or wait some time until there will be real official statments or enough travelers reports to confirm the theory.
(I have thees infos only 2nd hand so can give no garante)
But I wouldn't be surprised about some local variations anyway.

Regarding Chris question about the classification: when the system was anounced they refered to "old Michelin maps". So it is not garanteed that the old classification sheeme will be used exactly as before. I think the old sheeme does not apply always to the actual conditions - we have to wait and see how the practice will be.

Bye, Yves

To Yves : thanks to your infos !
About classification of roads/tracks , I don't remember I have seen any classification on Michelin's maps : Only few forbiden tracks are indicated .
You're right , the best solution is to go to DZ or wait a little for more travellers' report .
( I'm planning to go to Djanet next March )
Roro.

@roro,

I am sure, you will know more about the situation/practice in DZ beginning of the new year, after tourists were able to experience the current regulation.
But it will certainly still be difficult to assess the security question I suppose.

The "pistes interdites" on older Michelin maps correspond to the "C" classification.

Bye, Yves

I just got back from a 7 day trip in Djanet with an agency called Tasset. it was great, www.tassetadventure.com. A lot of tourists arrived by plane. A few came by car through Tunisia, not too many though. They are not letting people through Lybia (Ghat/Tin Alkoum).

What about safety? Were you in other places in Algeria than Djanet?

News from the South of Algeria:

El Watan reports robbery "on the route from In Salah to Niger in the region of Amguid", Bandits might have come from Niger.

Ok, a more precise location would be nice, but it tells us that bandits have learned that security isn't that good in Algeria. Taking into account also the travel warnings from France or the US, or Austria or..., it seems to be very advisable to stay outside and watch the situation.

The first groups of tourists flown to Tam are celebrated in Algerian media in a way that I suspect the season starting extremely weak.

Regards,
Peter

Two weeks ago, there were about 30 "plane" tourists in Tam - for 62 agencies.
It seems to look better in the Djanet area.

Yves

On Algeria Interface (AFP) I have found infos below (from South Algeria)...
Look at the infos about 2 students crossing Algeria to Burkina Faso and a sixty old men with in wife in a 4x4 ...
Not only bad news ...


"
Les touristes tardent à revenir à Tamanrasset

TAMANRASSET (Algérie), 12 nov (AFP)
Les fanatiques du désert ne sont pas tous revenus à Tamanrasset en ce début de saison touristique dans le Sahara mais, plus de huit mois après l'enlèvement de 32 otages européens, la capitale du Grand sud algérien ne désespère pas de les voir d'ici à Noël.
"L'affaire des otages enlevés au début de l'année pèse lourd et la clientèle allemande et suisse, importante au Sahara, ne revient pas", note Claudia Abbt Bahedi, une Suissesse de Zurich installée à Tamanrasset (1.900 km au sud d'Alger) depuis une douzaine d'années, où elle tient avec son mari, un targui de cette ville, une agence spécialisée dans le voyage du désert.
Entre la mi-février et la mi-mars de cette année, trente-deux otages européens avaient été enlevés au nord de Tamanrasset par des islamistes armés du Groupe Salafiste pour la Prédication et le Combat (GSPC), affilié au mouvement terroriste Al Qaïda d'Oussama ben Laden.
Ces otages (16 Allemands, 10 Autrichiens, 4 Suisses, 1 Néerlandais et 1 Suédois) avaient été libérés en deux temps, en mai et en août. Une otage allemande était décédée d'une insolation.
En mai, l'armée algérienne avait libéré un premier groupe après un assaut, alors qu'en août la libération du second groupe avait fait l'objet de longues et difficiles négocations, achevées au Mali voisin.
De fait, les touristes habituellement convoyés, lors de la "saison fraîche" entre octobre et avril, par des agences européennes dans le Sahara algérien sont quasiment absents cette année, ont indiqué à l'AFP des professionnels du tourisme à Tamanrasset, plaque tournante d'un tourisme pour amateurs d'espaces vierges et immenses.
Ils travaillent actuellement "en direct" avec ceux qui ne renoncent pas à leur passion du désert.
"D'ici à Noël nous espérons voir revenir les hésitants", ont indiqué plusieurs professionnels, à l'AFP.
Paradoxalement, ceux qui parcourent le Sahara algérien par leurs propres moyens en voiture ou en moto, la plupart du temps sans guide, n'ont pas hésité à venir ou à revenir en dépit des mises en garde des gouvernements européens.
Des étudiants de Grenoble (sud-est de la France) et de Paris, arrivés à Tamanrasset dans une vieille "2 chevaux" Citroën, en route pour le Burkina Faso, se sont étonnés de "tout le battage du Quai d'Orsay", le ministère français des Affaires étrangères sur les dangers d'un voyage dans le Sahara algérien.
"De toute façon, s'il fallait suivre les recommandations de ce ministère on ne bougerait plus", note un sexagénaire en retraite de l'est de la France, voyageant en tout-terrain en compagnie de son épouse et de plusieurs motards, très satisfaits de leur périple et de l'accueil.
Remontant vers la Tunisie pour y prendre un bateau afin de regagner l'Europe, ce groupe comptait faire une halte dans le massif du Tamelrik, là où les otages ont été enlevés: "en raison de la beauté du lieu et de ces canyons".
Nombre de professionnels du tourisme à Tamanrasset trouvent, d'ailleurs, injustifiés ces avertissements gouvernementaux pour la région "où aucun signe de danger n'a été relevé depuis l'affaire des otages", selon eux.
"Nous n'avons eu aucun problème de sécurité dans tous les sites que les agences ont visités avec des clients. Rien de particulier n'a été remarqué. Seule restriction, nous préférons éviter la zone frontière avec le Mali" où se trouveraient encore les preneurs d'otages, souligne Ahmed Hamdaoui, président d'un syndicat d'agences à Tamanrasset.
Cette frontière est particulièrement surveillée par l'armée algérienne qui a notamment déployé des avions de chasse et de repérages photographiques, visibles sur l'aéroport de Tamanrasset. "

The fanatics of the desert are not all returned in Tamanrasset at this beginning of tourist season in the Sahara but, more than eight month after the removal of 32 European hostages, the capital of the Great Algerian south does not despair to see them from here in Christmas. "the business of the hostages removed at the beginning of the year weighs heavy and the German and Swiss, significant customers to the Sahara, do not return", note Claudia Abbt Bahedi, a Swiss woman of Zurich installed in Tamanrasset (1.900 km in the south of Algiers) since a dozen years, where it holds with her husband, a targui of this city, an agency specialized in the voyage of the desert. ....[hostage events]..... In fact, the usually convoyed tourists, at the time of the "fresh season" between October and April, by European agencies in the Algerian Sahara miss almost this year, indicated to the AFP professionals tourism with Tamanrasset, hinged plate of tourism for amateurs of virgin and immense spaces. They currently work "on line" with those which do not give up their passion of the desert. "From here in Christmas we hope to see returning the hesitant ones", indicated several professionals, with the AFP. Paradoxically, those which traverse the Algerian Sahara by their own means in the car or in the motor bike, most of the time without guide, did not hesitate to come or return in spite of the warnings of the European governments. Students of Grenoble (south-eastern of France) and of Paris, arrived at Tamanrasset in an old woman "2CV" Citroen, on the way for Burkina Faso, were astonished by "all the beating of the French ministry of the Foreign Affairs on the dangers of a voyage in the Algerian Sahara. "In any event, if it were necessary to follow the recommendations of this ministry one would not move more", note a sexagenerian in retirement of the east of France, travelling in cross-country in company of its wife and several motorcyclists, very satisfied with their tour and reception. Going up towards Tunisia to take a boat there in order to regain Europe, this group intended to make a halt in the solid mass of Tamelrik, where the hostages were removed: "because of the beauty of the place and these canyons". A many professionals of tourism with Tamanrasset find, moreover, unjustified these governmental warnings for the area "where no sign of danger was raised since the business of the hostages", according to them. "We did not have any problem of safety in all the sites which the agencies visited with customers. Nothing in particular was noticed. Only restriction, we prefer to avoid the frontier zone with Mali "where still the takers of hostages would be, underlines Ahmed Hamdaoui, president of a trade union of agencies in Tamanrasset. This border is particularly supervised by the Algerian army which in particular deployed fighters and locations photographic, visible on the airport of Tamanrasset. "

Sounds pretty upbeat. I notice Interface did not mention the 'Nigeran' raid around Amguid a few days ago (in English at least).

Ch

Had an email today from the above mentioned Claudia Bahedi replying to my request for an invitation. She says bikers can't leave the major roads (i.e. the ones marked red and yellow on the Mich map) without a guide.

So now I don't know what to do. I want to do some pistes but it seems the only way to get an invitation is to prepay for a guided tour - which I don't want and can't afford.

What should I do? Get a transit visa and then attempt some unofficial piste bashing?

Here's the full text of Claudia's email:

As a consequence to the kidnappings earlier this year we are held to strictly stick to the national laws of circulation in the Sahara. You will, therefore, understand that for this reason and for your security we have had to change the administration of the " certificat d?hébergement " in the following way :

There is a clear distinction between a transit visa and a tourist visa :
The transit visa will give you enough time to travel from one end of the country to the other on the main roads. According to the laws of the national parks and the national road laws you are not allowed to leave the main roads, i.e red and yellow tracks on the Michelin map, without special guide and accompanying vehicles and/or special authorizations.

The tourist visa allows you to travel within the country for the amount of time that you wish to spend in the country always of course respecting the same laws as stated above.

We can only deliver a " certificat d?hébergement " with a confirmed and prepayed minimum booking of one of our services i.e. B&B in our lodge, guide, cameltour, tour by 4x4, etc. for the period of time of your arrangements with us.

For transit visas the minimum prepayment is of ? 100 / CHF 150 per person (i .e. 1 B&B + dinner at the lodge, administration fee included). The minimum prepayment for groups (6 persons and more) is of ? 80 / CHF 120 per person (i.e. 1 night, breakfast and dinner at the campsite, administration fee included)

For tourist visas you will have to book a tour with us :

If you are travelling by plane : We have a large selection of tours suitable for individuals or groups. It will be our pleasure to send you our suggestions for camel treks or jeep tours.

If you are travelling by car : you will have to book a guide with an accompanying vehicle if you wish to visit the country off road (off the red and yellow tracks). Full board on tour is advisable but not compulsary.

If you are travelling by motorcycle : you will have to book a guide with an accompanying vehicle as well as full board for the tour (cook, food and water) if you wish to visit the country off road (off the red and yellow tracks).

[This message has been edited by nick_horley (edited 12 November 2003).]

This is what Claudia wrote another guy some months ago. Strictly speaking what she says sounds plausible but since then we have heard other reports.
Try and stretch a transit visa, I would.

Try this guy for an invite:
Mohammed (In Salah, I think)
touiti80 AT hotmail.com
(in French)

He may be more flexible

Ch

I received an email tonight from a Swiss friend who's just arrived in Tam. There's just three tourists there according to his mail.

He's done Ouargla-elgomea-timimoun and then reganne-bordjMoktqr-Tam on a bike. Quite challenging routes! The email is very brief so no mention of guides etc. As far as I know, he got his tourist visa in Switzerland and he's definitely not the type of person who would travel with guides.

Camiel

News just in from an Italian guy back from Djanet-Tam-Amguid. Road control normal and convoy as usual only on the trans Sahara road. Visa in Rome as usual, with a hotel reservation.

Ch

Amguid ? Did this guy really go to Amguid ?
I believed that tourists must stay on main roads to go to Djanet or Tam .
Did this guy take a guide for this trip ?
Thanks a lot for your infos !
RR.

Hi Camiel,

I met Patrick (if it`s Patrick) near Kidal some days ago. He got a Algerian visa without invitation in Geneve. 48 hours. He traveled alone on his bike, without guide.

Greetings,
Gerbert

Hi,

>believed that tourists must stay on main roads to go to Djanet or Tam .

There is no rule saying this, may be some agencies are telling this.
Regarding the regulatuion I mentioned some time ago: they had been communicated internaly in DZ, but application could be a completely different matter.

Bye, Yves

That's true ; you can see on the Italian site ( http://www.sahara.it/cgi-bin/ubb/ult...ubb=forum&f=11 )a recent report from a traveller who was in Djanet : no guide is mandatory ( except in the National Parc of Tassili ) .
About roads , the only thing I know is that there are convoys beetween El-Golea and Tam .
But things may change ....
Have a nice trip .

There have been convoys doen the TSH for years. See:
http://www.sahara-overland.com/Sfiles/wash2.htm
which is why we all go via Amguid or Djanet -or even tanezrouft

Until something goes wrong, Algeria is turning out OK from what I hear. As always the privates will lead the way, so to speak, and the tours will follow.
But there are local interests in limiting the autonomy of the privates as we saw blantantly at the start of the hostage events

Ch

Interface reports a Saudi hunting party was attacked for their cars near Djelfa, 300 odd kms north of Ghardaia. These groups often travel in ostentations luxury convoys (tho I've seen them with local police guards).

North of Ghardaia has long been considered dodgy anyway, but it seems flash vehicles are a target as they have been in Niger for years.

http://www.algeria-interface.com/new...7.j2rj02uw.xml

CS

News from Alg:

"The agency mafia doesn't help to make life for individual tourists easier these days."

A 2nd hand quote from someone in Tam refering to piste-driving one presumes. It seems different agencies and authorities are interpreting or adhering to new/made up regulations in various ways.

Also, an oil refinary in has broken down which means that DZ needs to import diesel and petrol, so fuel shortages in the south (and elsewere) are on the cards.

C S

'Saudi hunting party' - what are they hunting??!!

Sam.

They were hunting 2 kinds of animals :
1 .I don't know the english word but in french his name is "outarde"
2. the second is 'gazelle'
This kind of hunting is forbidden in Algerian desert but saudis have a lot of money .....

Bad news .................
On
http://www.sahara.it/cgi-bin/ubb/ult...&f=11&t=000092
you can see that since few days you need a guide at the border post of Taleb Larbi to enter in Algeria from Tunisia ( same procedure than for Libya ) .
These infos comes from a Italian traveller who is in Tam these days .
Nice trip ?
RR .

Those news reported from the south are updated since concerning the official regulation issued for tourists willing to travel with owns cars. This regulation is out now, from more than two months and it concern all Algeria and not the south only.
What daily reported by the travellers are the confirmation of above and also that the time requested for their total knowledge and application is yet not ended.

The same situation happened in Libya when the almost same regulation was issued.

Visa conditions are often reciprocated. I wonder if this will lead to Algerians needing a guide in European countries?

Why not ? It will be a good solution for unemployement in France considering the number of algerian with tourist visa !

Should i make Ouargla-Ghardaia-Laghouat-Oran? Will it be safe? It´s always tar roads, so i presume i won´t need a guide.

The border is ok is it? (Nefta-El Oued).

Thanky you.

Joao.

Is anybody coming back from Algeria these days ?
I have seen on the Italian site that to go to Djanet is not very easy due to very strong police (and army) controls ; but I don't understand very well Italian and may be I'm wrong .
If somebody can give me some fresh info. about that ....
Thanks a lot !
RR.

Hello Joao,

>Will it be safe?
no special risks, for DZ

> Guide?
It is very, very likely that you will need a guide for the whole journey, expect 100€ and up per day (and be happy if less)

>The border is ok is it? (Nefta-El Oued).
Yes, OK.

Yves

"Is the 100 euro with their own car or do they sit in yours?" I asked Yves:

"Could be both, depends on negotiations. One In Salah-based agency asked
120e/day with a car to lead a group of 4 trucks on tarmac - and 200e to travel from
In Salah up to Teleb Larbi."

So it looks like it could get like Libya/Niger where getting in a group reduces transit/touring costs.

Would be interesting to know how it is coming up from the south into Alg.

Chris S

Anyone confirm that Algerian visa application would fail if passport had a Malawi stamp?

Also as I'm presently unemployed do I need to find an "employer" to provide a reference?

Also is applying for 3 months rather than 1 month likely to delay the visa being issued?

Sorry if these questions are in the wrong place - or if the answers are already elsewhere.

Peter

To Chris and Yves .

>Is the 100 euro with their own car or do they sit in yours?" I asked Yves:
"Could be both, depends on negotiations. One In Salah-based agency asked
120e/day with a car to lead a group of 4 trucks on tarmac - and 200e to travel from
In Salah up to Teleb Larbi."<

I think 100,120/day euros for a guide with his car is not so expensive .
But what is the price if the guide is in YOUR car ?
Not 100 euros/day : I have some price from an agency in Djanet who asks 25 euros/day for only the guide ( without car )

Another problem ( see Italian site ) : the guide must be OK for the Algerian army ( not only police ) : How can we know if my guide is OK for the army and what do you think about that ?

I look for some people who are interested to share one guide for the travel from Taleb Larbi to Djanet at the end of March .
Is anybody interested ?

Thanks for your replies .

RR.

>....Malawi stamp?
Dont know - What has Malawi done to Alg?

>.....need to find an "employer" to provide a reference?

Just fake a good-looking headed letter

Also is applying for 3 months rather than 1 month likely to delay the visa being issued?

I would not be surprised

Re 25 a day you may have to feed him, etc.
Army approved guides? Search me, stick with well known agencies I guess.

If Alg goes any further down the toilet we'll be needing scuba gear!

Ch

Are we talking about needing guides for off-road only?

I would like to do the run straight down from Tunis to Djanet and back again on the black stuff this March, which I was meant to do last March (but fortunately didn't!)

Keeping a loose eye on this forum I was under the impression that things were slowly becoming more relaxed than they had been summer/autumn last year, but maybe I've been wearing my rose-tinted goggles!

Hi Ian,

>Are we talking about needing guides for off-road only?

No, guides everyware. I suppose that is to make sure that no tourist enter forbidden zones. The guide will only be allowed to follow the itinerary authorized and written into his "ordre de marche".
I like to add, that also locals face more severe restrictions actually.

Yves

>Are we talking about needing guides for off-road only?

are we talking back-packers too?

Who can tell me what is the 'normal'(or average) price for a guide in my own car in Algeria ?
If possible give the "net" price: ie all included .
Do you think it's normal to bargain , if I take the guide for more than 2 weeks ( because the guide is now needed from the Tunisian border post ).
Thanks
RR.

Hi roro,

the last time, before the "events" I had excellent guides as passenger in my car for about 25-40 € a day. But the situation might have changed. Extra was the plane ticket for the guide to bring him back home (about 30€ from Djanet to Tam)

I suggest that you try to get prices from Dz agencies and negociate your price because you can't relly on previous experiences.

Try: Ténéré Voyages Khirani Ahmed Lalmi B.P.18 DZ 30000 Ouargla/Algerien 00213 29715260/61

Yves

Thank you very much Yves for your reply ( especially for the tel.number of the guide in Ouargla )
I have asked for the price for a guide at Tasset agency in Djanet : 25 Euros for a guide without car ( I think it's not very expensive ) .
They told me this morning that the guide is not mandatory at the border post if I keep with me the letter of 'prise en charge ' where is specified the roadmap beetween Taleb Larbi and Djanet ....
It's difficult to know the truth !
RR.
PS.Are you the same Yves from french 'Sahariens' site ?

Thanks Yves, I was afraid I would need a guide even on the hard stuff.

Although reading Chris's warning posted today, perhaps it's as well to keep out anyway.

However, what would be the practicalities of using a guide if I was alone on a road-only motorcycle - would he ride pillion, or would I need to potter along with him following on four wheels? All seems a bit pointless really!

Maybe the best option now for visiting these parts is for us all to join the US army!


[This message has been edited by IanC (edited 19 January 2004).]

Hi Ian,

I see, you didn't lost your humor (join the US army...)

Now your question. I can't imagine a guide sitting on the back of your bike from Taleb Larbi down to Ain Guezzam, it would be easier to finde someone riding your bike with you on the pillion ;-)

Anyway, somebody who has lots of experience in accompaining bike tours of road is Agence Tanezrouft from Insalah. I first traveled with them in 1990, their boss is Mohammed Haffaoui haffaoui AT hotmail.com And he not only knows most parts of algerian and Tanezrouft desert but is also an excellent cook.

Please don't expect a cheep (and mediocre) service, expect something from 120€/day with his car.
His secretary should be able to understand and reply your email in english, but french is better.

Bye, Yves


[This message has been edited by Yves (edited 20 January 2004).]

Thanks Yves. All things considered, it doesn't really seem worth the hassle at present. I think I'll hit Maroc again, and hopefully things will improve in Alg given time.

I've also heard of another Italian group who went across Alg to Bordj Mokatar, Gao and back up via Agadez-In Guezzam.
No probs and no Alg guides on the way down or back (apart from In Salah convoy), but a later group in Jan was told to take a guide from
In Guezzam right up to Taleb.

Chris S