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110 Vehicle Convoy to Gaza via North Africa - route seems impossbile
Saw this report on the 110 vehicles going from uk to gaza
The Press Association: Aid convoy heads off for Gaza "The convoy will travel 5,000 miles through France, Spain, Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya and Egypt, crossing into Gaza at Rafah in early March." I dont think its possible any thoughts? Karim |
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Yes Viva Palestina will make it. The Palestinians have suffered so much that surely no country will try to block the aid coming. They will most likely add vehicles to the aid convoy. Mubarak is a problem, but will not withstand world opinion.
Karim, why is it impossible? Check the website above. |
seems Impossible because morroco / algeria border is firmly closed,
even if they do make into egypt, I beleive the egyptians for political reasons will unlikely allow them to cross out of egpyt into gaza lets see what unfolds Im more interested to see if they have the politial might to get the morroccans and algerians to open up the border |
Then 2-3 Muslim countries will be denying aid to fellow Muslims under attack. I'm sure, (I hope) that they must have contacted all countries en route.
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Anti-terror police arrest three members of George Galloway's aid team as they head to
Is this the convoy you are talking of?
Anti-terror police arrest three members of George Galloway's aid team as they head to Gaza | Mail Online If so it asn't even made it out of the UK :( |
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"We are receiving tremendous cooperation from the embassies of the countries en route....Already this has meant the authorities will open crossings that are normally closed and are providing facilities for the convoy. " Viva Palestina - info for drivers |
Fingers crossed it provides the excuse needed to open the Maroc/Algerian border:
From the Western Sahara info Blog: Western Sahara Info. "Algeria's and Morocco's closed border The Moor Next Door has an interesting post up on the controversy about the closed Algerian-Moroccan border, with some equally interesting comments at the end. (Also see his latest Mauritania monthly.) For a brief recap, the Algerian-Moroccan border was shut as a consequence of the Sahara war, and remained closed into the eighties. In 1994, the border was shut again, after an shady affair which began with a terrorist strike on a hotel in Marrakech, where two French Algerians were among the perpetrators. Algiers quickly offered condoleances, but Rabat announced that the Algerian secret services had directed the attack. Crisis followed, and visas were imposed, borders shut, and thousands of Algerians tourists expelled manu militari. The expulsions, in particular, sent the Algerian public into a fit of jingoist rage, thus belatedly joining the Moroccans who were already roaring with righteous anger since the hotel attack. So everything was finally back to normal: borders closed, arms rattling, and everyone blaming everyone else. Recently, however, Morocco began publicly asking Algeria to reopen the borders, which Algeria refuses to do, and, indeed, generally avoids to even comment on. Why? Well: Regarding Morocco's insistence on the border issue, unlike TMND, I think it is less an attempt to escalate the conflict than an attempt to profit from the present status quo. Publicly asking Algeria to open the border is a win-win gamble for Morocco, since: 1. If Algeria agrees to open the border, removed constraints on tourism and trade will boost the Moroccan economy, which is in dire straits. It will also easen one of the most significant costs of the Saharan conflict -- namely the block on trade and Morocco's geographic isolation. A closed Algerian border cuts Morocco off from any plausible land route to the rest of North Africa and the Arab world, so it's not just Algero-Moroccan trade that is at stake. Also, since it comes on Moroccan request, a border opening would score a political point. In that sense, the public and challenging nature of the requests may well make it less likely that Algeria will open the border. The Moroccans realize this, of course; it's part of the gamble. 2. If Algeria refuses to open the border, it comes off as the unreasonable party. That is true both internationally, in the US and Europe, where politicians are exasperated with the petty rivalries of the Maghreb; and in the Arab world, where the Algerian-Moroccan spat has always been seen as one of the most pointless examples of Arab disunity; and in Morocco; and to some extent in Algeria. Many Algerians are angered by Morocco's demands and tone, and want a thorough apology for 1994. But others -- I think a rather significant percentage -- believe that Morocco's proposal to decouple the issues of the Sahara and the border is an excellent idea (and a smaller percentage want to abandon Algerian involvement with POLISARIO altogether). Part of the attraction for Morocco in raising the border issue is, then, that it helps to drive a wedge between Algerians and the Sahara issue, if the Algerian commitment to POLISARIO starts being seen as a detriment to the country's economy -- especially, of course, in the Oran-Tlemcen regions, where trade and family ties with Morocco are strongest. This perception is not very prevalent yet, for the simple reason that the Sahara question isn't expensive to Algeria. Western Sahara was always a war on the cheap for Algeria, while at the same time costly beyond belief for Morocco -- that was the whole point of it. The only serious Algerian expense was to keep a standing army tough enough to deter Moroccan cross-border responses. Even then, Algerian military spending has always been much smaller than Morocco's, proportionally -- and that includes significant expenses to guard against Qadhafi's antics on the eastern border. As for arming and hosting POLISARIO and the refugees, it was a minor expense even during the war years, and now in oil-flush peacetime it is absolutely negligible, while Morocco remains forced to pour billions into settling Western Sahara and buying off discontent. Even politically, Algeria expends just a fraction of the energy that its rival puts into Western Sahara. For Algeria it's enough do some casual lobbying to keep the issue going and put it on the agenda of international forums, which then forces Moroccan diplomats to rush there to put out the fire. As a result, Morocco has virtually given up on having a foreign policy outside of the Sahara, while Algeria can afford to remain heavily involved in African affairs, and to a lesser extent in Arab and Third Worldist circles. This imbalance is also the main reason for keeping the border shut. In brief, Algeria's Saharan strategy is to bleed Morocco into submission, or into an acceptable compromise -- whichever happens first. The post-2000 arms race is part of this, which seems more and more to be a sort of a Reagan-style strategy of aggressively outspending your opponent; feasible or not, it fits neatly with the recent price increases and oil shock. Part of the idea is also that if Algeria shows total intransigence, the argument for the US and other nations to side with Morocco is severely weakened (it won't solve the conflict anyhow). Displaying any inclination to compromise, in turn, works against that objective. Finally, as a wildcard influence on all of this, one sholdn't discount the tendency of corrupt elites to be, well, corrupt. Military-political cliques in both Morocco and Algeria are feeding off of trade and smuggling in various areas, giving them a vested interest in keeping borders shut as a crude instrument of directing trade. In Algeria, for example, today you have lots of tourists and trade going east towards Tunisia. Surely, some people who know people would be upset if half of that suddenly veered west across an opened border. And in Morocco, there is heavy military involvement in smuggling towards Mauritania and even across the Sand Wall that divides Western Sahara, as well as across the Moroccan-Algerian border. (However, it could work the other way as well: watch out for Algerian generals investing in Moroccan hotels...) Opening the borders, for all these reasons, would be seen in Algiers to undermine a basic pillar of the strategy towards Morocco. However, the burden of keeping it shut grows heavier every day Morocco is on the airwaves asking nicely for it to be opened. Someone, somewhere, is probably making cost-benefit calculations on that as we speak. " |
A shorter and quicker route from Europe to Gaza is by taking a ferry to Tunisia either from the south of France or Italy, avoiding Morocco and Algeria. Yet the convoy is taking a route to Spain, then boarding a ferry to Morocco. Makes you wonder why?
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To raise awareness and garner publicity I would imagine Roman.
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Other Purpose
The convoy has the second function of raising awareness of the plight of the Palestinians. My take on this plight is being kicked out of their homeland, disallowed a nationality thus allowing Jews to attack them with whatever level of violence they want and it's neither war nor invasion. That they've been bombed, shot, starved, left in extreme deprivation. I'd have thought the Jews would have targeted Germany for revenge reasons. I'd like to know what's up with the Jews. I shan't say more as I do not wish to visit Cuba at the cost of the US government. Linzi.
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It's probably down to costs and logistics. 100+ vehicles on a low-volume long-distance crossing would be difficult to organise, whereas ferries on the Straits of Gibraltar have capacity to spare.
They may also be hoping to garner more vehicles/goods/funds as they cross through Morocco and Algeria. I think the sight of this convoy on local TV will produce great digging into pockets. Apparently another 100 vehicles will join the convoy in Libya. Wish I was going.:scooter: Tim PS: better to concentrate on the humanitarian angle than get bogged down in politics... |
imagine
lets hope that they can achive this. gaza really need these helps. they are desperate of any kind of help.
the only problem as far as i can see is the israeli controlled gaza border. even the egyptian give permission, i am not sure that israeli goverment just let them cross the border. there was a cheasefire before israel attack and an agreement between israeli government and hamas government, according to the agreement hamas was going to stop rocket attack and israelis was going to let the aid in, like water, petrol, food, medical equipment, etc. but they did not. i wish i could live in a world like john lennon says: imagine there's no countries, it isn't hard to do, nothing to kill or die for, no religion too, imagine all the people living life in peace... |
Yes
Hi Ozhanu, yes the idea is a motivator. The songs of George Harrison are those of another peaceful person. Such a tragedy that they are both gone.Linzi
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"...The convoy will travel 5,000 miles through France, Spain, Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia..."
My instinct would be it's the usual case we see here on HU that people think it's a cool route but don't realise Mk/Alg is closed, but we'll find out soon I guess. the Algerian-Moroccan border was shut as a consequence of the Sahara war, and remained closed into the eighties. Often repeated on those sorts of blogs but not correct - it was open in '82 when I went thru and much of the 80s I believe. But in 94 it did close for sure. ozhanu has a point about Rafah. I heard a Radio 4 FOOC? podcast on how they 'slow track' all convoys trying to deliver aid (searching for ammo, etc, is the reason) so 100+ jeeps may take some while. Ch |
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It's evident that nearly all who posted were fully aware of border problems, and not only with Morocco/Algeria. Karim certainly stated his awareness clearly, as did others. Some expressed their hopes that the convoy would overcome such problems. The possible difficulty of Mubarak was also raised, and the associated problems of entering Egypt and leaving it for Gaza. IMO it's clear there was no "cool route " thinking. |
Many here know the Mk/Alg problem - that is why the thread was raised here - but I suggested in the rush to get going the organisers of VP may not be aware of it, assuming (as many unfamiliar with the region do; they crop up here regularly) that it is a good overland route with short (inexpensive) ferry crossings. It will put Algeria govt on the spot and so is quite provocative, even if the people right across the Maghreb and beyond are with VP. IMO Roman made a good point.
Sorry if this was not clear. Ch |
Hi Chris
If you go to http://www.Viva Palestina and then click "For Drivers" you can see the major work they have already done in opening borders. There is no mention of Algeria- yet- but let's see. That absence speaks volumes. IMO these borders will immediately close again, so any poster who may have thought they could soon follow on bikes can forget it. PS I look forward to your new book. |
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Hi Cam, yes I read that page and noted the absence of Algeria which IMO is the crux. Other stuff I read there made me think VP were not so clued up for the journey, even if the motives are right. For better or worse it is a high profile event and GG is a bright guy, but other convoys are quietly getting on with it too.
I was asked privately to respond to the question which I did publicly. IMO these borders will immediately close again.... For sure, and that really is the end of it. Nevertheless, I think this is an interesting discussion and look forward to following it's progress, even if it strays a little off "information about travel in the Sahara...". But as has been noted, take it easy on the politics - or at least don't rise to any baiting that does not get zapped. I'm offline for a couple of days. Ch |
Bait
Sorry, don't regard it as baiting. I just feel it very wrong to be able to arm one side while disarming the other especially, when they are so vulnerable, to put it mildly. It says so much that a volunteer convoy goes in rather than direct government help. Linzi.
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Sad
Yeh, but to see on TV how the Palestinians were thumped by aggresive military might makes me not only sad but angry. We watched in Kosovo and we watch here. I'd help if I could but I can't. Linzi.
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Censorship?
Good point Darren. I am very interested to follow the progress of the convoy but can't see any mention in any UK papers or with them online. I conclude that the British Government have censored this or is it really just that they don't think anyone is interested? I can't read Arabic so can only follow the convoy's own website. Hm, Linzi.
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No
Probably not censorship after all as it's not reported online in the English version of Al Jazeera either. I'm surprised. Linzi.
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Linzi - I read about it on the bbc website before here ...... so I don't think the government are censoring it! Or if they are the cheif censor should be sacked!
BBC NEWS | UK | Gaza-bound aid convoy leaving UK Try google news (or similar) and you will find 100s of stories about it. I think rather than censorship as you say it is more that it is not on our generally right wing press's agenda........a completely different story. |
Thanks
Hi Ollie, thanks. I see they're mostly in Fes now. I am very interested to see what happens at the next border. On Radio 2 today I heard Piers Morgan talking of how much freer to speak out our press are than in US, so it is simply odd how little exposure they're getting. I'll check German and Swiss press next but the omission on AL Jazeera really surprised me. Linzi.
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Conspiracy theories apart, the reality is that it's not exacty exciting news at the moment, it's just a pile of trucks driving along.
BBC UK Newsgathering covered the departure, now it's down to the Foreign Newsdesk and I expect there won't be any more BBC coverage until either the convoy reaches Gaza or something newsworthy happens. This page on the Viva Palestina website lists the media reports and there is practically no mainsteam coverage. It's worthwhile viewing the video of Gorgeous George speaking in Morocco (Press TV 18/02). The Moroccan authorities didn't exactly welcome a bunch of Islamic extremists (as they undoubtedly viewed them) entering the country and had the cheek :rolleyes2: to check the vehicles with sniffer dogs and a drive-through X-ray machine. And the Moroccan authorities decided not to hold the expected welcome in Casa. Not surprising in retrospect. The Moroccans have enough problems with vocal local extremists and wouldn't want to give a platform. [This is not meant to be a political statement, it's my interpretation of how the authorites would likely feel.] Anyway I wish them well and have made a paypal donation. Tim |
Thanks
Thanks Tim. I am genuinely interested. You're right it's not mainstream interesting--not in Die Welt or Zurich Zeitung. Linzi.
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Those interested in how the Western media operates might care to look at the writings of Noam Chomsky. "Manufacturing Consent" springs to mind.
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morocco - algeria border opens for convoy
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Press quiet
I'm surprised at your confusion. There is a large convoy of aid heading to help Palestinians. There is no press coverage in UK and none in one German paper and none in one Swiss one. I find this very surprising indeed. I think it is a big news story. Out of interest is there any coverage in Russia? Linzi.
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Ignoramus
Take it up with Piers Morgan if you want-I only quoted him. It seems he's right though. You have a pitiful ignorance of the systems of your own country then. Don't swear it only makes you seem foolish. Linzi.
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The Morocco/Algeria border was opened for an hour today to let the convoy through.
Another convoy following the same route is on its way from Scotland and is expected to link up in Egypt. Now that something newsworthy has happened there's some Beeb coverage Unfortunately thisisgloucestershire has mislaid its Atlas. Tim |
Good on the Algies for opening up.
Who knows, it might even inspire a rapprochement with Mk. Ch |
"I am told that the passport checks were done at a leisurely pace in an atmosphere of friendship and brotherhood (with brass bands playing on both sides of the border). As I am writing,they are filling up their vehicles with fuel on the house, courtesy of Algeria just outside Maghnia."
Not even the great Scott gets brass bands and free fuel ;-) Sounds a bit like the India/Pakistan border with each side trying to out do each other. There has been a general under reporting of the event, as to be expected of an event going against the government line. |
But and
Yes, all were released by police but three had their personal belongings, mobile phones and donations confiscated by the British police. I find that wrong in the extreme. That the border DID open is wonderful but not for adventure travellers' sakes so much as for the locals' good surely. I believe the internal trade in the Mahgreb area is the lowest in the world. Linzi.
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But the border is somewhat leaky and there's a massive unoffical trade in fuel and other products. The photo below shows a car driving along inside Algeria in a populated area north of Oujda. The road on one side of the gorge is in Morocco, the road on the other side, separated by a mere stream, is in Algeria. http://www.infar.co.uk/tim/gs/IMG_0672e.jpg Tim |
Opinions
The reason for very little press coverage is that its not big news in western society, or perhaps the news agencies are missing a trick here.
Def not censorship or a conspiracy, I hope the convoy does well and reaches Gazza with loads of the 'right sort' of aid - ie no weapons or drugs on board. As for the arrests, the police will have had reason to stop and arrest the 3 concerned, or perhaps they were just trying to create further negative feeling towards themselves just for the fun of it - remember the 7/7 bombings, and other attempts by terrorists to blow up British citizens and/or visitors to this country, which are blind to race, religion, creed or colour. Most of the plots, we the general public never even hear about, but don't imagine for one second that these plots are not going on every minute of every day. On the anti Israeli angle, remember that the Israeli's and the Palestinians have been killing one another for longer that most of us have been around, all started by interfering western govt's, when re-writting international boundaries after WWII. To go about insulting Jew's does not help and is very inflammatory, the Palestinians own elected govt - Hammas - continually fires rockets into Israel and calls for the extermination of all Jews and the state of Israel. Perhaps if the people of Palestine insisted that their govt ceased rocketing Israel then a ceasefire would have still been in place and Israel would not have had reason or the arguement to justify even to themselves, the over aggressive and indiscriminate bombing of Gazza. Just my opinion and take on things - neither side is innocent, and are there different levels of guilt? But back to the main subject - lets hope the convoy suceeds, the ceasefire holds, and it helps in emabarrassing Israel back to the negotiating table. The opening of various borders might help instigate future/continuing talks, and the consequent thawing of illwill between the govts concerned, possibly helped along the way by promises of US aid - for the obvious reasons. ChrisC |
Chris,
I agree with what you say, but let us not forget the reasons why the rockets are being fired into Israel in the first place, they will not hand back the land which is occupied by them for starters, also the latest Gaza incident is just another of ongoing atrocities carried out by the state of Israel. They Govern by the old divide and rule adage, When fatah was in power they were on the side of Hamas, now Hamas is in power they support the opposition. The reason the USA has not got involved is simply Israel runs that Country as well. and THATS A FACT !:thumbdown: |
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As we all know, this is the Sahara forum - its a forum about the Sahara and there is no other forum like it. Keep the posts about the Sahara please.
There are plenty of other places on the net to have a debate about politics in the Middle East. This is not one of them. |
From Mark Steele, a regular columnist in The Independent:
Mark Steel: The role of the teddy in a holy jihad No column in The Independent again this morning, as they weren't overly keen on the issue I was writing about, which is connected to the Viva Palestina convoy of trucks, that left London on February 14th to deliver food and medicine to Gaza. The convoy was financed by collections throughout the country, which were enough to fund 110 vehicles on a journey to across the channel, through France, Spain, across North Africa and hopefully through Egypt into Gaza. This, you might imagine, is the sort of charitable venture that would be publicised across the media as a chirpy feelgood tale, perhaps involving a regular feature on Blue Peter and at some point resulting in Cat Deeley squealing 'The response has been AMAZING, you've been ABSOLUTELY FANTASTIC'. But in the tradition that anyone's permitted to carry out crazy wacky acts as long as it involves charity, the police decided to contribute to the event with a spectacular lark. Early in the morning, on the day the convoy left, they arrested nine people on the M65 under the Terrorism Act, who were on their way to Hyde Park, where the journey was due to begin. They blocked off an entire section of motorway, and grabbed their suspects with what was described in the local newspaper as "Dozens of police cars, vans, 4x4 vehicles and a helicopter." The first I knew of this episode was from that afternoon's BBC news, on which it was the main item. Which is as you might expect, with nine suspected terrorists being pounced on by an operation that included a helicopter. To be fair, the BBC journalists didn't have to work too hard to find the story, as the police informed them in advance, and in addition, by a splendid coincidence, a press photographer happened to be on hand to record this successful swoop. Maybe this is how the police plan to fund themselves from now on. They'll follow the practice of celebrities and stage their events so they can be sold to OK and Hello. Major criminals will find themselves lying on the floor in handcuffs, while a photographer claps his hands and calls out "That's lovely, now can we do the arrest one more time while the Inspector stands just behind kissing his wife, and then have a profile of the murderer's assistant on a sheepskin rug in front of a coal fire." The news reported that the terrorists were on the way to join the Viva Palestina convoy, which straight away seemed a little peculiar. Why would terrorists be on the way to join such an event? What would they be planning to attack? The convoy of trucks heading for Gaza? And what sort of Jihadist terrorist would say "I know how we'll move around without being noticed - we'll drive down the motorway in three vans with Palestinian flags flapping from the windows and a ####ing great 'Viva Palestina' logo painted on the side." The story was reported in almost every Sunday paper, with headlines such as “Galloway’s Aid Convoy linked to three terror suspects”, in the Mail on Sunday. And they had the effect of reducing contributions to the charity by eighty per cent, as the astute might have been able to predict. But the nine men, six from Blackburn and three from Burnley, were questioned, and the lorries, which were full of children's toys, were searched. And presumably the head of the anti-terrorist squad stood there throughout saying "Check that Bratz for semtex." By the next morning six were released without any charges, and a few days later the other three were released as well, the police appearing to be duly embarrassed to the extent they've paid the fares so the wrongly arrested men could catch up with the convoy, which by now was moving into Algeria. The local councillor for the arrested men in Burnley is Wajid Khan, described how they were “Well respected men in the community, seen in a positive light.” Presumably then, all the broadcasters and newspapers who considered it a major story that the police had successfully pulled off this anti-terrorist operation will now make it an equally prominent story that the arrests had no validity whatsoever. Apart from anything else there must be many people who saw that story, and are wondering why they've heard nothing about it since, assuming a bunch of terrorists have escaped and are running round on the loose. They may even indulge in some investigative work, which will show that three of the arrested men are defence witnesses in a separate trial, which may, or may not be a coincidence. So you can't help be suspicious that the arrest of people volunteering for charity may be connected to them being Muslims, and being associated with Palestine. If not it's going to mean Comic Relief this year will be chaos, with Richard Hammond and Lenny Henry spending the whole evening making announcements such as "Now we're going to meet the wonderful children of St. Josephs junior school in Kidderminster, who've raised two hundred and sixty-four pounds with a sponsored cartwheel race. So here's Alan Titchmarsh to speak to them from their high security cell in Belmarsh." Mark Steel's Blog : The role of the teddy in a holy jihad Perhaps remember also that the bbc and sky refused to air the DEC appeal: "the BBC made a rare decision to breach an agreement dating back to 1963. Other broadcasters then also rejected it." THE BBC REFUSES TO BROADCAST GAZA CHARITY APPEAL |
Interesting
Hi Darren, I saw that too and the only other information I've been able to get is from the convoy's own wesite. It was interesting to note that even in winter, heat is a problem for some of the drivers! Seems to be very important to drink water even in a cab and in Feb/Mar. What a great example of well integrated, upstanding citizens, and even they underestimate the heat. Linzi.
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Made it.
Well the convoy, added to by many, many Lybian loads, has just entered the Gaza strip. All the borders were opened. Check it at Viva Palestina - a lifeline from Britain to Gaza if you will. Still not reported by the world's press. Linzi.
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