Is my current navigation technology sufficient (and how do I use it)?
 

I would really appreciate a sense check and some guidance on my navigation technology for my forthcoming Cape to Cairo (by motorbike).

I already have:
Whatever the latest iPhone is (6s?)
An old Garmin eTrex Legend HCx i'v hardly ever used
Two Michelin paper maps as recommended by Chris Scott for Africa
An new ASUS transformer T100HA

I have mapped my route in Google maps and noted down GPS points along the route.

I am intending (subject to comments below) to get an up to date Africa map for my eTrex which I will bar mount and use for directional navigation to my GPS points (assume this will not be route guidance, just "head north east" style).

All the advice seems to be to get the Tracks4Africa maps. I suspect i cannot run this on the eTrex (as it is too old - T4A state their maps cant be used with certain eTrex units). Is there an iPhone app that I can use without having to buy SIM cards etc on route? If so that might be my best option?

There seems to be some talk of Mapsource on the T4A. I recall that this relates to being able to create custom maps to follow and upload to the eTrex or equivalent. I never really got my head around that, hence the limited use i have made of the eTrex. Anything i do I will need to do with the ASUS since that's all i am taking computerwise.

I was also thinking of getting a satellite phone since i am travelling solo. However comments on the HUBB have made me consider the Delorme Inreach Explorer instead. If I go for this I assume i can then dispense with the eTrex altogether and use this as the basic GPS Navigator?

If someone can gently explain the best way to get myself around Africa using this technology i'd be VERY grateful. If you are tech savvy please do it in an way that feels like you are patronising me and that will be perfect :-)

Cheers
Andy

Hi Andy, I'm by no means an expert; however brought myself a Garmin Montana and getting to grips with it, I can normally figure things like that out, plus have few mates that are in to their Garmins!

I note you're from Bristol way, snap so if you need a hand figuring things out happy to catch up over a brew or a pint.

Kelvin


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Forgot to mention my girlfriend and I are in the early stages of planning a year out on the bikes, looking to head off April 17.


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It depends, a lot, on your philosophy toward navigation.
There is some discussion about that aspect in the sticky thread about using smart phones for navigation purposes.

As far as your OP is concerned, no modern smart phone needs a SIM card in order to be used as a navigation device via a multitude of apps that are on the market.
I believe you are right in your assessment about your Etrex; they are pretty much lacking in memory capacity for the current range of maps on offer is my understanding of the products - just one reason why the models are updated at regular intervals.

Paper Maps... Good. Expect to make many markings on these .. so keep a pencil and pencil eraser handy. And a pencil sharpener.

Iphone + GPS ... + mapsource + laptop...

Ok. Free... apart from your time and internet connection!
There is a thing called "Open Street Map" (OSM) that has inputs from people, like you, that documents the world in a format that says not only what but where. Then people make maps from this data ... that you can use on your phone and GPS... The data source is the same for all these maps .. but they don't use all of the data and they don't all draw it the same - roads in different colours that kind of thing.

Iphone .. apps ... MapOut ... and OSMAnd are two you should try. Both are 'offline' so you won't need an internet connection to use them ... just to download them.

GPS ... download ... there a whole thread here on this. http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...eet-maps-64135 Basically down load the stuff. Get mapsource sorted on the laptop and then transfer the map and any waypoints/routes you make and use it.

--------- What to do first !
Best if you do this for your home location so you can see what it looks like on the maps and can relate reality to the map easily. Your best off with the GPS/mapsource stuff as there is no limit on the number of downloads there. OSMAnd is limited to 7 maps .. so best to limit yourself there. So download the GPS OSM map stuff for your home location and play with it on both the laptop and GPS. YOU may note some errors and omissions. You can correct these by registering with OSM and correcting them yourself - that is the power of OSM. Will take some time for the corrections to go through to the GPS map stuff .. say a month. You will probably find more errors in less populated places .. it takes people to enter the data and make corrections .. less people = less data and less corrections. Having said that ... you will find it fairly good.

Enough to get started. Go!

------------
Other GPS maps .. some are 'better' than OSM .. better in that they have more cafes etc .. possibly they have more roads. Usually they cost more. Play with the OSM stuff first .. it is free so you can use it and see what you can do. Then take a look at the others. T4A has more detail in the south .. but I suspect less in the north.

Many will say. "You don't need a GPS".

They're right. But it makes it easier and less stressful. I don't go anywhere without one.


A perfect combination for this trip would be a Garmin Montana 600 with T4A maps (tracks for Africa).

If you don't want to pay for T4A then OSM maps are free and almost as good.

Inreach explorer is useless for maps.

I've got to Libreville using two Michelin paper maps and my iPhone. In Ghana I got hold of a handlebar mount for the iPhone and it's been invaluable for navigating cities.

Download maps.me and when you have wifi download the countries that you need. Can then navigate without using any data.

Most of the things you need (embassies etc) are on there and accurate. App is completely free and I can't recommend it enough. Not once have I felt I needed a proper satnav.

Tracks for Africa costs money and I'm not convinced that outside of Southern Africa it has any edge over maps.me


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We drove around West Africa with the original Etrex (with no mapping) some Michelin and topo maps, a marine compass mounted on the dash of the Landy and a hand bearing compass, that was it.
Definitely use a gps, but be realistic, they do fail, so don't put all your eggs in one basket with one, have good paper maps and have sat imagery on your Asus and iPhone as a backup. We used OSM in South America and it was pretty good, as Ted says use T4A, probably the best mapping out there for your route. Where they are really helpful is navigating through cities to find accommodation, embassies etc etc.
The Etrex is not a bad unit, but id avoid any gps with the controller/buttons above the screen as when you use it with your left hand you will cover the screen, also the display is quite small.
I have used several of the Garmin 60 series for the last 12 odd years and it has reliable buttons mounted under the slightly bigger display, no single joystick to go wrong, the latest 64 unit has much more memory and a better antenna than the Etrex, overall it is the best gps I have used.
Id like to try the Montana, but am hesitant about using a touch screen in very wet, humid or hot sandy/dusty locations, I have heard of a few failures.
I must say the iPhone navigation has really improved lately, but I still prefer having a dedicated gps unit personally.

You need a sim in the phone for maps.me but it doesn't charge you anything. I've had my uk sim and not used a single MB of data whilst navigating.


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You don't say how long you have for the trip and how stressy you get when " lost"

Keep the morning sun on your left and/or the sea on the right side and you are going south. The rest is more about timing or passing through specific points.

Your kit list reads well to me.

Andy

Some really helpful stuff here - thank you!

Garmin do full a Africa (minus Sudan) 'topo light' map for my eTrex for £20. Given the thumbs down for the Delorme's GPS capability i'll get that. At £20, if helps great, if not i can ditch the eTrex on route without shedding tears. I did use it last year in Europe when my TomTom threw a wobbly and it was ok to follow as long as i set it and then left well alone. The eTrex uses microSD and the Africa map needs 2GB of storage.

A decent iPhone mount is £20-£30 so I'll order that too. The comments regarding using that in cities resonated with me - again i have used my iphone to navigate European cities to find my hotel successfully.

I will download the mapping apps - I have just downloaded osmAnd and maps.me so far (and have Galileo on my phone already). I'll have a play with these as suggested. I am happy to pay for T4A if they will be useful. Can i use this on my iPhone or do i need to buy a new Garmin device?

I can then look at other units when i know the gap i need to fill.

I'm not sure where Mapsource then fits in? Is the idea that i program route points and somehow upload these to the iphone and/or gps?

Time wise i'm on a pretty tight schedule - i have about 100 days so am riding to a daily plan (and accepting it will inevitably change as i go along).

Cheers
Andy

Mapsource and Basecamp are Garmin Programmes that allow you to manage your routes, waypoints etc on your computer and then you can transfer them to your device. I myself use the Garmin Montana 600 and OSM maps.
First pick the maps you want from OSM, place an order as such, you will then receive an email with a link for you to download your chosen maps.
Once downloaded to then can place your map on to your SD card (depending on what size your device takes), before placing the map on the sd card make a folder called Garmin on the card and place the map in the folder. This enables the device and laptop to read it easily. To use on the device ensure your setup is done to enable the reading (some may do it automatically) To use on the laptop (and I can only speak for basecamp here, mapsource my be the same) place the SD card in the slot (you may need to use a SD card size converter if using micro) and then open the programme.
On Basecamp it will read the card because I put the map in a folder named Garmin on the SD card. I then select OSM map from the drop down and it will read the card further and bring the maps on to Basecamp. I can then so all my routes, planning, waypoints direct on to the card. Then card can then be placed in to your device and you are good to go.

With the Montana you can leave the card in the device, plug the device into your laptop, open Basecamp (it will read the device and card)and work direct to the device.

Thats how I use it anyway, others may do it differently

Wayne

I don't think Africa will be 2GB. That is probably the card size they sell it on.

Mapsource runs on PCs/laptops ...
It is a Garmin thing that will talk to your GPS if you have a connection for it.
It can download maps to your GPS. It can up and down load waypoints/tracks/routes to/from your gps. The bigger screen helps for planing. It will not communicate with your phone in anyway.

Basecamp is a more current Garmin program that does the same kind of thing as mapsource, with the added advantage that it will take maps off your GPS for use on the PC/laptop. The commands and structure between mapsource and basecamp are different .. I and others learnt mapsource when basecamp was not around, and have not changed over to basecamp.

Is my current navigation technology sufficient (and how do I use it)?
 

Thanks again - love this forum!

Ive downloaded all the maps I needed into maps.me (since all free) and am going to use that on my phone around the UK for a bit to get used to it. Hopefully that sorts the iphone half of the deal. Apparently i can load kml bookmarks which (i think?) means i can load the waypoints i've marked in google maps.

For the GPS I'll get onto mapsource this week and have a play around (have confirmed on garmin website i cant use basecamp with my eTrex). Hopefully that will help me to decide whether to shell out for a Montana. Happy to do this if needed but I dont like throwing away last generation stuff that still works (from a eco viewpoint) if i dont need to.

Pm sent Kelvin

Mapsource does not work on Mac also, unless there is a work around

Wayne


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The work around is don't waste money on trendy tech which is locked down for profiteering. ;)

Apple is just a pain in the arsr for everything...

In the questions and replies there is much that is repeated from earlier threads in here; no matter, just saying that you can find background information, such as how to download OSM which is particularly covered in a sticky thread in here.

Regarding Maps.me, there is some discussion here:
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...w-routes-81573
I have now deleted it, for the reason therein.

For some mention of the route planning software on the market:
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...hich-one-82808

You have more than sufficient technology, when I did that trip 38 years ago all I had was the two Michelin maps (still have them in my study, actually).

Crossing the Sahara involved sighting up from the top of a sand dune the next cairn of rocks, or empty 44 gallon drum 2-3 kms away and aiming in the general direction - the locals navigated by stars, and only drove at night with their lights turned off, so it was advisable to camp well off the piste if you didn't want to wake up flattened.

Often when there were no obvious markers I would end up navigating using the sun knowing that if I continued in a south westerly direction I would eventually cross a set of tyre tracks I could follow.

So, yes, learn to use all the latest technology but recognise there are times when it fail, for various reasons, and be prepared to revert to more traditional methods of getting to your destination.

Sun compasses are in short supply nowadays!

Night navigation; now there's a different ball game. Even orienteering type games change their character.

Mapsource is discontinued. It is now Basecamp, which is also available for Mac.
But there are bucketloads of programs out there (google-search "JaVaWa") which can do all kinds of geeky stuff for your digital navigation needs - and most of these are Windows only, not for Mac.

But you will see that T4A and Maps.me will cover pretty much all your navigation needs.
The T4A, OSM and Maps.me Africa map is about 700Mb (since they all use the same source, OSM)

But wait, there is more...
Tomtom is now available as an app for both iPhone and Android, and the Africa map which you can download for free (since only the app is paid, not the maps) is surprisingly good and clearly based on OSM. I just used it driving down thru Morocco, Western Sahara and Mauritania and it was at least as good as Maps.me. And the interface is Excellent!

This is getting confusing. Map apps are named in the same list as map sources. Maps.me state that they use OSM maps. There are tonnes of mapping apps. Most use OSM data.

I agree with the before mentioned opinions that if you have some tech, phone or GPS and a paper backup you're covered. Spend more time in considering what mapping data to bring. T4A also have paper maps now and iphone and android apps. Not sure how to interpret the reviews the apps get compared to the GPS data. I presume it's the same data but I'm not sure. It's often more important to have an idea on fuel locations than whether there is a hwy or a dirt road. The latter is now easier than ever to establish before you go.

Some apps allow for custom maps which means you can scan in any paper map, georeference them in some GIS software like Global Mapper (much easier than it sounds. You just pick the a minimum of 3 map grid points and enter the coordinate of that map grid point). There are a few conversion software options to convert a GeoTIFF (georeferenced image) into something usable with your end use software. I use Backcountry Navigator (android) so I use MAPC2MAPC for the conversion which also does Garmin. It's really dead simple and will give you all the maps you need on a small device. Lots of really good phones are now really cheap. The S4 is now chump change and still "current".

:rofl::rofl::rofl: that might be the case but I like it :D

Wayne

Quick update:

The Garmin eTrex Legend HCx is not coming to Africa! Garmin have confirmed I cannot upload the Africa topo light map, or indeed any other Africa wide map. It is essentially obsolete.

For communications I have settled on a Delorme inReach. I am travelling solo so want an 'in an emergency' solution. I have discounted Spot due to the incomplete Africa coverage.

I can't decide between the inReach SE or Explorer. The latter is $80 more but comes with routing, waypoints and navigation (comparison here: DeLorme inReach - Two-way satellite text messaging, tracking and SOS anywhere in the world). Comments in this thread and wider reviews aren't positive about these features but if my (employer's) iPhone gets broken on route it will at least be a back up. Subject to any comments any of you may have I am therefore leaning towards the Explorer.

I have tried the maps.me app on the iPhone and it was decent. I am going to try and build a route in google maps and see if I can get it into maps.me. If I can get that to work I will stick with that and not bother with a dedicated 'sat nav'.

If I can't and decide I do need a dedicated GPS I am leaning towards an updated eTrex rather than the Montana 600 (Garmin eTrex 30 vs Montana 600 | GPS Compared). £170 vs £400 and, apart from size, I can't see the big difference?

Oh? keepcalm Possibly an ill-informed salesman?

I'd think you would be able to use an OSM map on it!
Limitation would be the size of microSD card it will take. If it is too small ... split the map up - say north and south ... with some overlap .. and have 2 cards. But I think you'll find it will fit on one card.

The maps.me app uses OSM data .. so having it on the HCx would give you similar detail and 'completeness'.

As Warin implies, garmin sales may be "encouraging" you to buy their products.
OTOH, built in obsolescence is the name of the game with such things - the software overtaking the capability of the built in hardware.

Ultimately, it does depend on the specification of the etrex including the sd card capability etc.

I am somewhat wary of maps.me having tried it out twice and deleted it from my Android phone twice - because when maps.me updates the mapping, automatically with no options available to me, it uploads Mega data which fills my 16 Gb card.
Navigator doesn't do that but simply updates with just the new info, also derived from OSM; who knows why Maps.me does this??

My problem with MapsMe is the lack of contrast on the display. Everything is shades of pastel which might be OK in a dark room but outside in the sun you can't see anything. OSMand on the other hand, while a bit of a pain in some regards, can be set up to display high contrast maps with wider tracks and all sorts of options. Couple of other android navigators I have thought were great until I went outside, have been deleted as well.

One annoyance is although most use OSM, they each customise their maps so if you have 4 apps, you have 4 copies of OSM

Is my current navigation technology sufficient (and how do I use it)?
 

The issue with the Garmin Africa map is that you have to download it. To do this you provide the serial number of the eTrex. When you provide this the Garmin system tells you its not compatible so wont download.

On the maps.me i noted the comments earlier regarding data and turned off 'background app refresh' in settings. I was hoping that whilst my maps (already downloaded) might be a few months out of date, i'd avoid this new data upload issue. Sound feasible?

Having played around it was also easy to export my waypoints and routes from google maps as a .kml file (to dropbox) and then just open into maps.me

I'll have a play with some other apps too - keen to learn from your experiences. I have downloaded OSMand as well so will have a crack with that.

How would i get OSM maps onto my eTrex Warin? If i could do that, that would be a good option for me. (I am about to work through the link you provided at the start of this thread to see if i can do it that way).

I like OSMand .. offers a variety of
display colours .. different colours for roads/tracks/etc.
display features - the bicycling display brings up bicycle routes etc... the pedestrian one brings up other features .. like drinking water. There is not motorcycle display ... unfortunately. I'd like one of those - similar to the Michelin maps - green = good twisty roads with views.

It should all be in that thread his. http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...eet-maps-64135 .. no need to repeat it here. There are at least two methods.

Temporary, you might be able to set up your apps so they update when you are on free wifi, but not if you are accessing via a data service.

OK, thanks for your patience!

I have downloaded the relevant tiles from the link listed. I tried to load MapSource onto my computer twice but couldn't. Both times when the Garmin programme tried to run it just said I needed to have MapSource already.

I therefore followed the directions a couple of posts in on the thread and just created a Garmin folder on my microSD card. I didn't know if it would work since it is a 16GB card but on testing the eTrex offered me a route from home to Kigali so it looks like I might be back in business, which is great.

So....

The Garmin is coming after all and it looks like I don't need to buy anything new. I assume wihout MapSource I can't pre-program way points but can enter these manually as I go along which is fine. I did also download the .exe file for mapsource/basecamp although my computer flashed up a warning about using this. I'm not sure what this does?

Having learned a bit on maps.me (and got my .kml file across) I will now start to work with OSMand and get my mapping sorted for that....

...which means that I will just get the inReach SE (as I don't need a third device that gives me mapping).

I thinking I am slowly getting it (with a lot of help). Thanks again.

Have you checked out iOverlander.com for places to stay during your trip.

App is useful and integrates with mapsme or you can install them all on your Garmin.

That does sound feasible.
I can't recall seeing that option when I played around with maps.me.

I do this; with android the setting is in that operating system.
I don't buy data services from the mobile folks either.

Probably just telling you that it is an executable file (.exe).

More generally, there's no substitute for playing around with these things.

Not yet, but will now, thanks

Ok had a good play now!

I like maps.me, and can get waypoints and my trails uploaded easily. It is easy to follow in 'sat nav' guidance mode (although i couldn't get sound to work - not going to be much of an issue on the bike as I don't have a bluetooth headset anyway). I can see the pastel colours issue (was fine in the car, but can see it would be a challenge in strong light). I will try on the bike having changed the iphone's settings in the accessibility menu.

I also tried OsmAnd but really struggled with it. First try it wouldn't load the maps so i had to delete and reinstall the app and uk map.

Once sorted I liked the maps themselves, but I couldn't work out how to make it give proper route guidance (it drew a line from start to end point, but just drew it 'as the crow flies'. Am i missing something?

I'll persist with both for a while and see how they go.

Is that a "paid for" version of maps.me that you are using or the freebie one?

For the straight line issue:
It might be set to take such a route in the setting of the app - a line of sight walking route for instance.
Alternatively, throw in a few waypoints to force it to follow the route of your preference.
Are you sure that the app has a routing algorithm included? Some apps download routing info separately from the mapping data.

Is my current navigation technology sufficient (and how do I use it)?
 

Just the free iphone one - using the uk map. It routes properly giving me directions in a main bar at the top of the map and (helpfully) then gives a smaller next turn arrow box inset into the map so i what's coming next as well.

Im going to try the osmAnd walking to work today to see what happens in practice.

(On the earlier "background apps refresh" point there is no option to select this within the maps.me app itself, but it can be set by selecting the maps.me app within the iphone 'settings' menu and turning it off there).

Couldnt get OsmAnd to work at all.

Just looked up their website - that's because apparently navigation is only available on Android.

So far. 'They' are working on it.

Last time I looked, which was about two years ago, the market shares for smart phones were:
Android 85%
Apple 10%
Which leaves about 5% for Microsoft, Blackberry and the like.

I use the free maps.me on iPhone, got the Thailand maps on it also and it works good

Wayne

Thanks Wayne good to know.

The advice at the beginning of this thread to try a few was spot on.

Noting Walkabouts comments on the share of the market i have an iPhone (I'm not an Apple fan - seems my employer is) so whilst i really liked the OsmAnd maps and details its out for me (at least for now - thanks for the clarification Warin, i'll watch for developments).

Maps.me is working well for me, i seem to have found a way to work round the main concern with it and can get all my planning stuff from google maps into it. Initial testing concluded.

I am now going to use maps.me out and about for the next few weeks (car and bike) so i am really comfortable with it. Assuming no major issues emerge that's what i'll then use, along with the eTrex.

For the software side of things, you seem to be getting to a solution for your own needs; it is much like bikes themselves, we can all listen to the recommendations and preferences of others but, in the end, you need your own solution.

As for the hardware, I tend to have mixed feelings - Google, now re-named via a holding company as Alphabet (which puts them in the phone book in front of Apple!), don't manufacture the hardware at all nowadays.
They just let others do that - lots of "others" - and also give the Android operating system away, permitting those hardware manufs to pretty much do what they like with Android thereafter.
This is a very different business model from, say, Microsoft and we can all see how successful it has been, to date.

Apple will always manage to retain their own market with their much more integrated suite of iPhones, iPads, iEverything.

Meanwhile, I await the production of the killer navigation/mapping app which puts all others out to grass.

Is my current navigation technology sufficient (and how do I use it)?
 

Fair comment Walkabout.

At the start of this process i had no idea what i could do or how to do it.

For many of life's less straightforward questions i find i need to sit with a question for a while, look at it from a few angles, play with some potential solutions and eventually a way forward emerges that i feel comfortable with. So it has been here.

Much like waiting for the perfect motorcycle, tent, GPS, etc etc.

We have to chose the best fit from what is available and put up with its short comings and work around them. Early explorers had an easier time - less choice and usually no choice (as in there is nothing available to perform that function). So be thankfull for the range available.

Using locus is worth getting an Android. Just came back from Baja and the androids had the upper hand with that app. Had the Baja Almanac (map book) on there as a georeferenced image. Worked great. Locus isn't available on iPhone. Other apps on iPhone aren't as flexible with map types and you can't move files on the phone so must need Dropbox or iTunes. Too much hassle for most.

My Garmin shat itself before we even got a good go at it with a cracked screen. The other had charging connector issues.

On that, usb is not robust enough for off road motorcycling. Some phone cases have external usb ports which allow for way hard wiring of the case mount. That way you can still remove the case from the mount.

No issues with overheating either. I tried to cover it when parked though. Just put my gloves on it. Baja was hot this winter. 30C+. I'm ditching Garmin now. Phones are everywhere.

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Pooratrek to the rescue :innocent:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-H...520Compass.jpg

Andy

A couple of thoughts:

I used an eTrex in West Africa and it made it maybe 5000 miles before the USB connection failed… and I could not find the needed replacement part anywhere in Nigeria, Cameroon, Gabon, etc. – and oh how I tried! LOL. Finally I gave up as my riding partner was taking care of navigation with his 60csx.

Bottom line, USB connections may not be robust enough for rough, long-distance overland riding. Better is a powered mount like the Garmin AMPS Rugged Mount for the Montana. Or, bring backup USB connnectivity.

I am using that powered mount with a Montana 650 in East Africa. No problems from Johannesburg to Egypt and quite happy with the Montana, much better than my old eTrex.

I have both T4A and OSM loaded on the Montana… and I have maps.me on my Samsung smartphone, but do not have the smartphone mounted for use as a navigation device.

Good idea to have both T4A and OSM as they are each useful in certain areas and situations. OSM is especially valuable north of Kenya, where T4A tails off. Also have a collection of paper maps, they are helpful too.

Good luck Andy! :thumbup1: