GPS in Africa
 

I bought a Garmin V for use in europe and have found it fantastic and (so far) reliable.
After talking with retailer about using it in Africa or just buy a smaller cheaper one he said the GarminV would be ideal with the world map software installed I could find towns, main roads etc as well as mark weypoints.
Has anyone used such a device in Africa with built in maps?
is it any use?
does anyone know of a list of villages and waterholes or other usefull weypoints that I could install?

Any help and advice to come, thank you

alan

...oops!
weypoints are waypoints for the dyslexic

I used my Garming III+ in Marocco. The map in it isn't of much use. I wouldn't count on it. You need to do a lot of research and put the waypoints you need in there. You can find a lot on the net.
Ideally you get maps scanned in and use those to put the routes and waypoints into your GPS. But that is not as easy as it sounds. I am still in the process of getting maps scanned so that they are usable.

thanks fireboomer.

Checking out related stuff and sites on here. ozi stuff looks good.

Isn't the internet fantastic!

HI Alan,
I am planning a 6 month trip from london to capetown in october. I have a garmin E-map,which i was thinking of upgrading to a 3+ of a 5, how did you go with any mapping info. Garmin do a world map-wondering how detailed this is??.
As for way points ,i looks like long nights on the puter putting them in.
Cheers gazza.

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Ride hard,ride safe- Ride on...with no regrets of life passed by.

Hi Gazza

Haven't made any progress with gps yet, starting to concentrate on bike mechanics.

Have posted seperate request about 'how to read maps' and have got some links to check out.
Hey Chris (Scott) if you're out there, how about a sahara orienteering or general map reading course for us cabbages, based on your experience as much as anything. I could supply a central venue (Birmingham) in my workshop???

Why don't we do this at the HU UK Meeting? Sounds like a good idea to me.

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Grant Johnson

Seek, and ye shall find.
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One world, Two wheels.
www.HorizonsUnlimited.com

Sorry to disappoint you but I believe GPS is much over rated for straightforward overlanding and I think AH you underestimate your ability to learn how to navigate - with a set of Michelins map reading is as simple there as anywhere. Unless you are planning something really radical (a bit much for a first trip) then just locate north (usually with the sun is enough) orientate a map and look around to relate the info. End of free map reading course.

Why would you want Afro villages and waterholes in a GPS? You'll get there eventually. All it would ever do is tell you how far in a straight line - whereas with a map you could work out how far on a road - much more real world. And once you get to sub Saharan Africa you will be wanting to get away from villages! (after a while).
I know its an amazing and cheap gadget but mark my words, once you cross the Sahara you'll hardly use it. Sure you can import calibrated quo vadis (TTech) maps. In Russian - big deal. Or laborioiusly scan and calibrate other ones. How are you going to read or make sense of them on a tiny screen? On the Sahara forum Karim asked about using a Palm Pilot instead - barely more useful but he got heaps of replies (maybe opinions?) - I didnt even bother reading them yet. Funnily enough in school they used to call me "palm pilot" even before the Amstrad 8510 was invented...

Its real usefulness is at sea - or in similar featureless (or maybe reduced visibility) environments. Even on D Riders we relied on it only about half a dozen times to point us towards dumps and a couple of key points which I'd copied off a map anyway. In these situations it was or course vital but even then all it can really do is confirm youi have made a mistake (assuming the map's up to it) or go to a place you've already waymarked.

So I say eyes up and look around at Africa going by not at a digi screen - that's what I'm trying to get away from!

In fact, its quite possible I crashed out on DRP looking at the bloody thing instead of the piste! Killer vid out next week, btw

Chris S

As someone once said "read ground to map - not map to ground" I'm not quite sure what it means but it sounds good.

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Author of Sahara Overland and the Adventure Motorcycling Handbook, among other things

http://www.sahara-overland.com

Hi Chris

First off, I have no experience of travelling accross wildernes but wouldn't the gps tell you instantly where you are even on a featureless landscape/poor visibility/night time, which when transfered to map would tell you how far to village etc.
I am not suggesting for a moment it would replace a map for o/land travelling but surely would work along well in conjunction, a sort of belt and braces approach to help bolster moral and fend off doubt?

I take your point(s) but I honestly do have an appalling sense of direction as ANYONE who knows me will confirm. (The Garmin V has completely replaced road atlas/maps for me over here and I now set off relaxed to any destination). Maybe you under estimate your own natural and experience learned skills.

How about travelling with a partner. Stopping to fuel/eat/study map etc. could both hit waypoint button then if lost/seperated could just backtrack to exact spot?

Maybe it's just because I am used to travelling with one regularly that I find more and more uses for mine all the time. As I said, just a backup.

And on the map reading thing, "a quick glance at the sun" would only confirm to me that it is daylight. Where do you learn all this stuff?
I could try joining the boy scouts but at forty two I think they might question my motives!!!

alan

Hi Alan,
there is (IMHO) a good section on maps and navigation taken from an elementary level in my Sahara book starting on p.246. Perhaps my woggle years had some benefit after all ;-) and maybe I should incorporate it into the next AMH.
Your Garmin may have been nifty in Europe but that's only because there is enougb demand to have in-built maps as useful as a road atlas - Africa is at the bottom of the Garmin (and many others') list - only the biggest towns and main roads and borders will be shown unless you scan in calibrated TTech Russian maps, for example (dont start me on that...0
As for getting separated - this is a real problem to be sure and one should have a fixed rule to, say, return to the place both of you last stopped/talked/had a leak, crossroads etc - its the way we do it in the Sahara - and anyway which waypoint would you use unless you were constantly updating them?
So I would recommend to wean yourself off total reliance on the GPS for trans Africa.

Chris S

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Author of Sahara Overland and the Adventure Motorcycling Handbook, among other things

http://www.sahara-overland.com

Fwiw I have done an easy Cape Town to Nairobi with a gps 3+. I was amazed at how many of the minor roads were displayed. e.g. the very minor perimeter road of Ngorongoro Crater, Tanzania.

It's very useful in getting out of cities. Even if you're completely lost just head where you want to go (a compass is also quite good at this but just doesn't have enough knobs)

It's also good for morale to confirm you're actually going in the right direction, something it's rather hard to do at midday.

However, as pointed out above if your gps dies you must be able to use a compass and map (or, alternatively just take two gps's and hope the Americans don't turn the gps system off)

Jerome (44 1/2)

http://www.fowb.co.uk

[This message has been edited by Jerome (edited 13 May 2003).]

I went on a tour of Normandy over the weekend with a bunch of guys from the UK thumper club. One of them had a very nifty little device that has got me re-thinking my plans to buy a Garmin Legend.

It was a Handspring PDA with a Magellin GPS unit neatly clipped to the back. The Magellin unit was made for the Handspring (at least that's the way it looked), and the maps were scalable with a scroll feature down one side of the unit. You could plot waypoints as usual, and use downloadable maps. The guy who owned it said the downloadable maps weren't always useful in towns, but otherwise he was quite pleased with it. He called it 'GPS on the cheap'.



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Barry
3AJ Tenere

All above taken onboard and I will definately take the garmin but learn to navigate properly somehow too. As said it would be a navigation aid and not a map replacement.

Quote "As for getting separated - this is a real problem to be sure and one should have a fixed rule to, say, return to the place both of you last stopped/talked/had a leak, crossroads etc - its the way we do it in the Sahara - and anyway which waypoint would you use unless you were constantly updating them?"
If you are lost how do you return to anywhere? Where as the gps will tell you the last place you marked as waypoint is twenty kilometrs in 'that' direction.
On Garmin V you simply hold 'enter' and a waypoint is created at your current position with a consecutive three digit number (001, 002, 003 etc.)which is hilighted for optional re-naming. You could leave default numbers as route waypoints and simply tell gps to take you back to last one if you get lost/seperated.

Barry I would do a thorough test of palm gadget before relying on one. I used to use one but it occasionally crashed and the thought of adding a gps to a pda sounds bit too swiss army tyre lever with built in flash light to me. The garmin has been robust and fault free for me.

Hi All

GPS are handy but they often go wrong and arn't able to cope with the battering that serious off roading will give them. Even if you get the so called toughend version from touratech with the rally mount.

I have had 2 Garmin V break on me and know of a number of other riders who have had similar problems. So far my new one is ok but have't used it off road yet. Can't beat having the safety of a map in the old tank bag to see where you are going.

Another point to remember is that you can only load a limited amount of map data on them, so you will need to take some other media with you to upload the rest of the maps on your GPS or store your waypoints on when the GPS is full, this opens a host of other problems.

They are great pieces of kit to help with your navigation but work even better when used in conjunction with your trusty old map. I would not personally rely soley on one if going remote.

Cheers

Julio

Sorry your Garmins have proved unreliable, Julio. My experience of both the GPS III+ and the V has been excellent. Ours are taken almost exclusively into hot desert dunes, week in week out, and have survived countless hard landings and a fair number of falls. They are standard 'unhardened' units and have never failed.

The GPS is invaluable for marking the location of predetermined meeting points or broken down bikes etc., for navigating through dunes and for retracing 'breadcrumbs' to return the way you came.

They don't replace map reading skills in remote areas but, given the choice, I wouldn't go into the dunes without one.

I've had two Garmin units to date, and both have been excellent.

Initially I had a GPS2+ mounted on a Touratech handlebar mount. The mount broke on the M40 heading for Morocco, whereas the GPS2+ worked faultlessly for 2 trips of mountain and piste bashing! I used maps (Michelin and IGN) for navigating roads, and the GPS2+ for following offroad waypoints from Sahara Overland.

Now I've got a European GPSV. This unit can be switched into off-road mode and used as per the GPS2+. And that's igonoring the satnav features which come in handy for road touring. But it doesn't stop me keeping the maps in my rucksack.

My two pence worth:
1. remove the batteries from the GPS unit and power it off of the bike's power,
2. mainly use the GPS unit to confirm where you are on a map.


Iain

I'm not sure I entirely agree with Chris Scott's assessment of GPS in Africa (his May 9 post, above).

I ride a lot in out of the way places - Poland, Slovakia, Hungary, rural Croatia, etc. - all countries that have about the same quality of mapping data as Africa, in other words, WorldMap only, no street level detail.

I do spend a LOT of time in Africa as part of my "day job" (an aircraft pilot), and I take my portable GPSR - same one I use on my motorcycle, a Garmin 2650 - with me whenever I go to Africa.

I have found it VERY useful in remote, out of the way places such as Algeria, Libya, Sierra Leone, Liberia, rural Angola, south Sudan, and other "way off the beaten path" spots. I need to point out that its usefulness in these places is quite different than its usefulness in more developed countries with more detailed electronic mapping data.

In any African town or village, you won't find all the roads mapped - heck, most of the time you won't find ANY roads mapped - but if you set your GPS up to display the path you have followed (show your track), you kind of "write your own map" as you go. I have found that this greatly speeds up the process of getting oriented to a town or village. I can create waypoints for my house, office, the airport, the market, etc. and then I can stray off the main roads with a fair amount of confidence that I know where I am, and I know how to get back to familiar turf when I want to.

In Africa, much of the town and village layout relates to the position of rivers, lakes, gulches, and other topographical features that usually are depicted on WorldMap. So, not having street detail is not a big loss - I can always refer to the topographical detail to orient myself.

I would recommend that travellers to Africa take a GPS, even if it is just a simple unit with a built-in basemap. A unit that can accept upload of WorldMap data is, of course, much better. WorldMap coverage of all of Africa, with Europe south of the Alps tossed in as a bonus, only occupies 17 megs of storage space, which allows the whole continent to be loaded onto a GPS V, which has 19 megs of built-in memory.

Respecting durability - I've had a StreetPilot III for two years, put 70,000 km on it, all on the bike, crashed twice, including once where the entire weight of the front end of the upside-down 400kg bike was supported on the GPS, and never had any mechanical problems. I've just used stock Garmin mounts attached to Ram-Mount hardware.

Having a GPS with you is great for peace of mind, and as others pointed out, great for getting out of town when you are disoriented. Obviously, it will never replace paper maps (until the cartographic data reaches the same standard as current Europe and North America data), but it is as much a compliment to a paper map as a flashlight would be for riding at night.

PanEuropean

[This message has been edited by PanEuropean (edited 12 November 2003).]

hmm. I use a ruggedised etrex (more later) and Michelin 1:4m. to be honest (smug smirk), I'm a pretty good navigator and find it hard out here (ethiopia, Sudan etc) cos the few signs are in arabic/amharic and there are many more roads on the ground than on the map. most of the locals don't travel etc etc.
I rode with someone with a G5 and his maps were impressive. they go much further than a 1:4m can. I don't like to depend on GPS as I actually like navigating by sun, compass etc, but when you're short on fuel ... so I'd say that the african gps maps are superb, but don't put your life on the line with a GPS that might fail.

unapproved ruggedisation of etrex ... 1st unit died after 10 days in Algeria, new unt still going strong after 130 days from Joburg.
remove rubber banding and cut away sealing tape. split case carefully to avoid breaking antennae. fill case with RTV silicone (5 quid at maplins) and reassemble case. make sure you don't RTV the contacts from one case half to the other as you can't reopen the case later!!! remove stupid flimsy tin contacts from battery compartment (at bottom of unit) and replace with steel strip. dismantle GPS end of power supply cord and RTV. dismantle Touratech mount and shorten plastic bushes 1mm to allow some float between the two plates. make additional bushing with RTV. good luck and don't tell garmin!

Silicone works well against vibration, but....
....use a 'Neutral Cure' Silicone !

Most silicones are acid cure which will corrode your circuit board.
Typically silicones made to work with metals are neutral cure so pick one for roofing or aluminium window frame use.


[This message has been edited by BurnieM (edited 18 January 2004).]

Hi Jerome

I'm planning a UK to Cape Town trip, departure in about two months. I've just bought a secondhand G III plus to help with the navigation and I was wondering if you had any advice re: working with the GPS and also which set of maps did you use?
Stay well



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Enzo
BUNDUBASHER.com

Garmap ( http://www.garmap.com/ ) have a Garmin GPSR loadable 'Africa Road Atlas' just out.

You might need a bit more memory than a GPS III+ tho.

Many thanks, I'll check it out.
Go well,


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Enzo
BUNDUBASHER.com