TMT observations and safety- my take
 

Trans Maroc Trail

Worthy of note- think of it as a safety suggestion particularly aimed at those who will be converting the .kml file into GPX for use in their Garmin or other devices which can use these file formats.

@ Chris Scott- would you please not summarily delete this safety post as you previously did.
Safety applies to everyone and unnecessary moderation does little to encourage those who provide information for the benefit of others. After all, isn’t that what the Hubb was originally created for?
Thank you.


Once opened in Basecamp, the entire TMT comprises of 49 separate tracks.
Please look carefully at the length of each one- as somehow- there is a great deal of contradicting information with the distance shown in the name of the track and the actual distance covered.
I've yet to be able to replicate this error with any other of my GPX files so it is a bit of a mystery so far.
If you look at the first screen shot-(before conversion) the errors in distance are clear once compared to the second image (after corrected conversion) where I have manually corrected these discrepancies



The third image is where you can see the actual track length and it needs match what you put in manually when/if you name/rename the track.
I included this info into the track name as, BEFORE starting a new track it focuses the mind as to whether all the variables are favourable for an enjoyable ride- such as sufficient fuel+ a margin, weather, time of day and approx time needed etc etc - I hope others find this useful.

I note Chris is now using my method of placing the distance in the name of file- very gratifying!- [as it was shown on the previously converted file into GPX (with Garmin icons) which I uploaded for other to have a look at/edit but which,alas, was also deleted...]



Also worthy of consideration-

Open any track of the TMT and go to the 'Graph' tab
You will see a graph of 'Elevation', ‘Speed’ and Distance.
In Basecamp, the Speed is shown in Blue, Elevation in Green- see Picture One

In Basecamp, on a ridden/driven on the actual ground, the recorded track should show you:
Track Name and distance if you have added this manually
Then:

Index in numerical sequence
Elevation
Leg distance
Leg Time
Leg Speed
Leg Course
Time (date and time)
Position

==> See picture 'On the ground recording'


I do not know what devices Chris or Gill were using nor of any of settings they have but there are a great deal of discrepancies which I would strongly suggest you consider.
I attach an example of a recording made live, on the ground as I went along which contains the information shown see picture 'On the ground Recording'.
Compare this information to the data provided/missing/corrupted in each track and draw your own conclusions. I am not here to pick a 'bun fight' with anyone.

My repeated public thanks to Chris and Gill for their work. I shall, no doubt enjoy a few of the unknown trails (to me) in this fabulous country which is Morocco and have more of their delicious tagines.
However:
I strongly felt that 'a heads up and check the information yourself' was very much warranted due to the number of errors I have, so far, identified and I am still working on as well as the potential risks riding/driving such trails can create. It is tough enough on the ground!


Safe travels to all

Detail
 

The details in the blue/green graph and 'properties' tag one below above pictures above are particularly useful(IMHO) when trying to visualize a track as they provide data, some of which can be an indicator of difficulty. It is a great pity that most do not have this data recorded.

Anyone can then decide to add value to those tracks by adding other waypoints as they see fit. In Basecamp, for example, I've added an alarm at 20km from petrol stations and others places.

Not exactly clear what point you're trying to make here?

The GPX I have is 29 tracks and 174 waypoints with V2.9 of the TMT

(edit I see now that you are loading the TMT kml file rather than the gpx, the kml does give 49 routes. But in your first image there are tracks that do not appear in the current V2.9 kml file?)

My point is simple-
To remind folks to check any information provided however well intentioned.
We are all humans and are prone to error.
Many places are far from help, trails in particular.

It is a known fact that some 98% of forum users are just harvesters and could be prone to using data given in the spirit of sharing 'as is' with possible risky consequences.

If you look at the example I have given, the detailed data is there whereas it is missing from the .kml original file. I've no idea why but the only guess I can think of is that the tracks were not recorded 'live' as they were ridden/driven or that, if they were (which I doubt) whatever device/s were used to record were not set up correctly.
Anyway, the message for anyone using someone elses' data is to check and check again for their own safety.
That's all, I"ve done my bit!
Happy trails

Wow!
I am so pleased most of my off-road experience was gained prior to or,in the early days of GPS and am still alive to tell the tales.

Thanks to you all for taking the time to develope these tracks and adjustments.

As for the risks! Bollocks,just do it :scooter:

I'm still confused by the main issue here, ignoring the discrepancies in the stage length which doesn't appear on either the kml or gpx I have for the TMT, the main issue seems to be the leg data recorded when a track is actually being driven?

I'm not sure this data is of any relevance to users, the main information required is the actual route being accurate. I use my recorded tracks a lot when planning tours in Morocco but never use the leg data, the 2 bits of info I need from a recorded track is total time taken and a visual record of the route to be displayed on screen.

Given the aim of the TMT is to provide a route from Nador to Cap Draa the data provided seems to fit the bill for users.

Indeed TheWarden- if that is its main purpose then, aside from Mother Nature doing some reshaping, it will do that. I am still looking for any interesting places to visit along that trail though - aside from it just being just a trail-

Whilst you are here, can I pick you brain? Maybe you can throw some light on this example?:
See picture below which is an approx. visual comparaison of ~terrain V recorded graph on the track from Tata to Foum el Hassan
That is what I referred to as 'discrepancies'

I really would like to know which vehicle allows for a vertical drop of 1,797.8 meters, survives then drives on for ~35kms then goes vertical again to resume its journey! (and which brand & model of satnav was on board!)
:Beach:

Agree 100%. Messrs Scott and Gill are giving their extensive research data away "for free". I'm very grateful for them doing the legwork for me. If it's created from others' actual tracklogs, with the altimeter on/off/on the blink, who cares. If it's drawn in mapping software by Morocco experts, who cares.

I'll loosely follow the TMT at some point this month and next month. I'm on a big shed of a bike with luggage, so will weigh up (pun intended) the conditions based on the weather, possible travel companions, my mood, the phase of the moon and multiple other wibbly wobbly factors, not exclusively limited to speaking with other (local and visiting) humans.

Waypoints from the TMT, iOverlander, mates, previous visits (more than 15 years ago), Mr Cullis' hotel list from back in the day, Google Maps or even OSM's own POI's. I'll also carry a paper map and a paper guidebook (also useful as a sidestand weight spreader).

No idea why I'm bothering to reply.

Thanks all and appreciate your original post Toyark, thanks for taking the time to share. The TMT team always appreciates feedback.

For what its worth, one point that we've been at pains to stress from the word go is that the TMT is a guide but its not a subsistute for personal responsibility, as this is the essence of an adventure after all! You'll see this is stressed on the TMT website and the FAQs etc repeatedly.

Or, to put it another way - if you were buying a wardrobe, the TMT is not a ready-built one from a posh furniture store but rather more like a flat-pack one that the user has to build themselves (and take responsibility for building), from an Ikea store.

...but without the meatballs or those huge bags of mini Dime bars. For better or for worse. ;-)

Ed

You are welcome-
IMHO, one can never over state the need for anyone, no matter how skilled, to check any information provided pretty much anywhere- especially in hazardous areas - ask any MRTs'.

Attached a .gpx file of the highest peaks in Morocco according to Wiki.
NB Caveat
I did not climb them and the data came from here
I may have made a typo too...

@TheWarden
re post #7
Aside from pressing the pause recording button , any thoughts?

No idea, there's several errors in that altitude chart, first is that it shows an elevation several 100m higher than reality just before the trench of doom

:cool: trench of doom! that should appeal to some!

@edwardbgill and / or @chris scott

More feedback!
You have (kindly no doubt) offered up yet another version (is it 6 or more? I've lost count) of the Trans Morocco Trail Map v2.28 and I have a question:
I cannot fathom why?
Would you be kind enough to explain this?
Thank you

Hi Toyark

Just due to feedback from people doing the trail.

We’ll continue to do so.

Ed


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:thumbup1:

Updates from me and in the interest of constructive feed back
 

Bearing in mind previous OPOs', here are some of my observations which may or may not be taken on board in the interest of accuracy in the next updates of the TMT. Some may find them useful, others not- take your pick!

ER606 Shepherds Jct No Elevation data (NED)
H Beni Tadgite to Boudnib the track has been inverted in V2.35 and currently runs South to North
K Elevation data erroneous
M NED
P NED
Q NED
R + S + U Elevation data erroneous
V NED
W + X Elevation data erroneous

on a side note
Under 'INFO' it is stated what Garmin symbols/icons cannot have multiple colours which is incorrect. Garmin has the facility, on many of its more recent units, to have CUSTOM SYMBOLS which I find particularly useful as a 'picture speaks a thousand words'
The Garmin help page on these is here

I am fascinated by your obsession with elevation data. Are you flying the route?
I don't see this as constructive criticism, sorry.

@mossproof :
No need to be sorry. There is no criticism on my part, just observations on information provided and my take on things which we are all entitled to have.

Edwardbgill (in post 9) said he welcomed feedback- and that is mine.

It is stated that the TMT has had 200,000 views- fabulous! Now if only a handful of those viewers actually rode/drove the TMT and provided their data back to Ed & Chris, it is only reasonable to expect that the quality of the data should increase on each and every new version. My view- to date- is that it still needs a lot of work to update the veracity of the information provided and there is nothing wrong with that either.

I would expect the creators to accept contributions and observations in the positive spirit they are offered to improve on their idea making it better and better- unless, of course, that this is not the primary objective.

To add value- a few more suggestions for Ed and Chris
 

@mossproof – as I forgot to reply to your ‘are you flying the route’ mention, having both the elevation and time data enables one to have a better perspective on terrain and possible difficulties. The lower the leg speeds would usually indicate a higher likelihood of greater terrain difficulties. Combine this with elevation data and you get a better ‘picture’. See previous screenshots I have posted in this thread (#1)

Another suggestion relating to waypoint alarms.
I noticed these were all set at 100 meters irrespective of the type of waypoints- at 30 km/hr that gives you some 12 seconds to look at/hear the alarm before being on top of it. My take, for trails, is that it would be more leisure-full to have these set at somewhere between 250 to 500meters.

For fuel stations and accommodation
I would set these at 20kms

For water/wells- 3kms

Depending on the remoteness of the environments I ride/drive, I adapt these alarms to suit my needs and my way of travelling. My take is that, once you’ve set your alarms to what you would prefer, the sat nav then informs you automatically.

I hope that's helpful.

WRT to elevation data I just read the contours from a topo map either in basecamp or my 700i if its an area I'm unfamiliar with, although most of the TMT I know well so don't really need to do that so much.

The TMT has been busy with users over the spring with lots of posts on the FB group, but not every one using it returns track logs or other critical info to the route. What one person finds hard another finds easy so some feedback wont be of much use for showing the route on a map or navigation device.

I'm not fully upto date with the latest changes despite being here in Morocco (cracking day in the desert today partly on Stage K) but most have been through feedback about blockages, weather damage etc.

(I guess proximity alarms are more use on a bike than a 4x4 but the scare the life out of me when they go off!)

@TheWarden
Maybe you could choose a different alarm tone in your 700i so that it doesn't startle you so much?
One of the defaults is a shrieking tone which is dreadful but then if it is used where you really must be very cautious it does its job!

To change Tones: / turn them off/ change units/delete
Home
Proximity alarms
Touch the 3 bars
Alarm tones set up
Make your choices
and dare I mention adjust the volume!


Enjoy the tagines and get recipies!

Trans-Morocco-Trail-Map-v2.37.gpx
 

@ chris

H Beni Tadjite > Boudnib 67km

I previously flagged for correction (post #17), now two versions ago, that this track needs to be INVERTED as it currently is FROM Bouderib TO the fuel station indicated as H Afri'quia Beni Tajite.

And I'll stop there as it is (sadly) clear that despite 'updates', there is clearly zero interest in either accuracy or contributions/observations from others nor any appreciation on your part. What a pity as I could have added value to your original idea but ... never mind, crack on.

You hit the nail on the head buddy; the most tenacious 'contributors' are here for gratuitous self-promotion, under the guise of altruistic helpfulness

I'm sorry to burst your bubble on this Toyark, but I'm afraid to tell you that the TMT has taken contributions and observations and updates from many others.

That's why we have published multiple updated versions since it was launched only 6 months go. You have complained about the number of updates previously, so you can't have it both ways - would you prefer us to incorporate contributions from others and then not publish an updated track?

It might be worth reflecting that TMT is a side project for both myself and Chris, therefore some changes will be included, some will not. Your own views on how to add value to the TMT may or may not be shared by others, including, it seems, several members of this forum.

Nonetheless, and in so far as your own contributions, I will double check the Section H comment.

On elevation data, we don't plan to include this information.

All the best, and I personally hope you get some time away from the screen and out there on the TMT in the near future.,

Ed

Interesting view Barrie, which you're obviously entitled to.

You forgot an alternative reason, however - that the co-founders enjoy riding/driving in Morocco, and have hugely enjoyed pulling the TMT project together simply because of that.

Feel free to come and speak to myself or Chris at the festivals we're speaking at this summer, and you'll be able to see first hand what our motivations are rather than making assumptions from a distance.

Ed

Sadly, so so true. The $ speaks...

ED, it is of no consequence to me whether my observations are taken on board or not. I was perplexed at the number of updates where previous errors were not being corrected. What I find disappointing is that those who lack knowledge, as we all do on certain subjects, persist in pretending they do and provide inaccurate information. I have always applauded your project and only offered my suggestions as, like you said, it (still) needs a lot of work and I do see opportunities missed-so far.

Chris has been very quiet... which is very unusual for him; I hope he is well.

Thank you for your concern about my screen time and suggestions about enjoying the TMT.
AFAIAC, having been to Morocco many times, it has a great deal more to offer in archaeology/ architecture/musical/culinary wise etc. than just riding on stony, dusty tracks where there are few of those to be experienced. Travellers, by whatever means of transport, mostly do so to educate themselves and have new experiences.
The TMT still has the potential to include such information and I would encourage you to listen to Tim Cullis whose knowledge of Morocco is very substantial and maybe you could include his ideas in your future versions.
I do understand that, for some, Morocco is only about off-roading and that’s fine too. A chacun son choix. It’s a big world out there!

Many thanks for your further reflections Toyark, I’ve got nothing further to add.

All the best for the future.

Ed


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I'd like to clarify that my comment referred to neither Ed nor Chris, and also to clarify, Ed, that my remark reflects my observations, not distant assumptions, or whatever you wrote.
Amusingly, I've since been threatened with censorship, which I find pathetically laughable.
Right, I'm finished here now, and away to the bush for a few months anyway, so goodbye

Thanks for clarifying Barrie, appreciated. Enjoy the bush.

Ed


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Huhh...
 

I really don't understand this thread, the TMT is totally awesome, ride it first, appreciate it, if you cant do that then at least understand its development through long hours invested by great people willing to share for free. Whats to criticise? Damn. keepcalm