Problems with multi-vehicle imports
 

Talking to Peter Buitelaar yesterday, it seems that with very recent effect the rules regarding temporary importation of vehicles have changed and you are now limited to one vehicle per person. If there's two people in a motorhome with a scooter on the back, that's OK even though one person might be driving/riding both, but one person in a 4x4 towing a trailer with a motorbike is not.

This could create chaos for anyone bringing in a truck load of bikes with clients flying in to pick them up later.

Peter's wife, Zineb, has spoken to the head honcho of customs in Ouarzazate to check the situation out and it was described to her as "a new law".

Maybe this is the time to befriend a fellow ferry passenger and offer them a lift. :rofl:

Hi Tim,

Sounds interesting. Wonder what will happen when the Spanish and French tourists with quads on trailers arrive for Semana Santa this year.

Happy trails,

Peter

Foreign companies organizing tours in Morocco have to have a Moroccan registration from 01/2014 somehow, to have no problem with this. I have been told by a custom officer last november....

Don't know any further details, sorry.

GRTZ,

JP

I was under the impression that was to restrict the number of 'rally raids' taking place in Morocco, and I don't think it's anything to do with the above (but I could be wrong).

Peter has a Moroccan 'patent' (business registration) yet reckons he's affected along with everyone else.

This is not good news. If it's true WHY ???

Do the Moroccans not realise this will deter tourists and loose the country revenue, plus many small buisnesses will suffer and loose income.

If true my trip this year (myself, bike and van) won't be possible

I´ve great problems last year when I carried my bike into my 4x4. I stayed for four hours negotiating with the customs inspectors.

I guess that is nothing really new. From the end of 2012 is this trip report from a swiss guy.

You may need google translate for understanding:

http://www.offroad-forum.de/viewtopic.php?t=61475&highlight=

He run into serios problems, because he had bought an new car and arrived with them. The old one was still in the computers of the border guys, from previous trips he had done in marroco.

Looks like the car dont was sucessfully unregistered, on his last border crossing...

Surfy

When you leave Morocco at the end of a trip, always retain the third part of your D16ter which shows that your vehicle was correctly exported. I carry each of these for all of the vehicles I've ever taken to Morocco.

Happy trails,

Peter

That's a different problem, and one I had in the 1970s when the exit of my Triumph Vitesse wasn't recorded.

"Triumph Vitesse" Fantastic car!

Loved the car. Some photos: 1972-2010: Morocco then and now photos

Great pics Tim, thx, 40yrs time flies hey!? Love the car, parents had a Herald, but always liked the six-cylinder engine of the Vitesse.

"Club Med vacation village" LOL those were the days. :)I joineda ship in Agadir in 1981 ish, haven't been back since, might do next trip, don't really want to though.Thx again, cheers Mark

Any issues with trailers? Do they need to be registered/insured in the same jurisdiction?

We hope to drive back down to Africa with our '82 LandCruiser but we hope to pick up a utility trailer while we are in Germany so that would be regestered in Germany (I think).

No scooters or motorbikes.

I am thinking, planing to go to Morocco via Spain next year and I have read about Temporary Import paper work that can be obtained on line, can anyone help direct me to the right place for the paperwork. I will be traveling on my V-Strom, camping with my wife.

Thanks Anthony

Hi Anthony,
the link to the Moroccan Customs online form is here.

There are some instructions on how to fill the form here.

You don't have to do this form in advance online; you can also do it on arrival.
It just saves a bit of time and hassle, that's all.

Ch

Hana Ptackova of Motoadventours is taking nine client bikes in the next few days and says she will report back.

I wonder whether there's a difference according to who owns the vehicles? Maybe the problem only arises when they are all your own vehicles and if they are client bikes it's OK?

Thanks Chris,
looking forward to visiting Morroco http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...s/biggrin2.gif

If the owners of motorcycles are with her, she´ll have no problem.

A friend works as guide in Morocco and he had to bring ATA carnet for each bike, it cost more or less 90€/bike.

I've just posted my positive experience of bringing two bikes through Ceuta in my name, see http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...t.php?p=462959


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

So what is the final verdict?
 

Hi guys,

Was looking though the threads and this one got me somewhat nervous. Me and my brother was going to drive to Quarzazate from southern Sweden with;
1. Mercedes Vito (owned and registered by me) loaded with...
2. Yamaha TTR (owned and registered by me)
3. Yamaha XTR (owned and registered by my brother)
... and hopefully pass though customs on 1/1 2015 but from what I read in this thread that could become troublesome :cursing:

From what Tim is describing initially, this would not work as I understand it but from pera and str3tch last posts it seems like it it could if you bring a carnet.

Could someone please reassure us if this will work, and possibly indicate what documents/arguments to bring to get the least amount of hassle?

How did it go? I entered I car, one trailer, One Bok on Trailer and one KTM Bike on my name last winter via Tanger Ville. Took a while and the boss had to come out of his office (he noticed that the Trailer and box were not connected permanently) But he somehow squeezed everything on that sheet of paper and got me in... Patience will get you in and back out ;-)

Welcome to Africa...

Temporary import moto and trailer to Morocco
 

Hi ! anybody knows if Ata carnet works when if I pass through port med tanger custom with car trailer and 4 motobikes without the owners?
Any adress or mail of reliable local guide or person than can help me in this mess?
I will appreciate!
Thanks

Does anybody have fresh info on this?

I plan to drive through Morocco with a car and two bikes (one on my name) on a trailer, to go to Mauritania. I'd be arriving at Tangier Med.

I know for first hand experience that D16ter's and whatever procuration will (most probably) not make it. A few years ago a friend was denied access with a van loaded with 3 bikes, including mine, so I and the other fellow had to fly to Tangiers. There was no problem to enter with van+1bike on one passport, more was apparently not allowed at the time, or at least not in the mood of officers. And things have been evolving for worse apparently...

So the open questions are:
-Any fresh experience on using an ATA carnet for bikes, as per pera's suggestion?
-If the bikes are on the carnet, will the trailer be counted as a separate vehicle, or they don't care about it? Are they strict with the one passport, one veichle rule, in particular for what regards trailers?
-Any experience on handing the ATA carnet on exit at the border with Mauri, and when entering back? (I wonder if the Mauri border post handles carnets at all. Maybe one has to stop by the customs offices in Laayoune or Dakhla)
-Any other recently tested recipe?

Thanks!!!
Nicola

So I sent an email to the customs, and this is the answer I got:

"Suite à votre mail, je vous informe que le véhicule, les 2 motos et la remorque seront admis sous le régime de l’admission temporaire moyennant la souscription via le site internet de cette administration : www.douane.gov.ma de déclaration d’admission temporaire de moyens de transports D16 Ter. Ces déclarations seront présentées au service de la douane accompagnées des cartes grises originales du véhicule, des motos transportées et la remorque.

Les motos seront annotées par le service sur le corps de la déclaration D16 Ter accordée pour le véhicule.

Considérations distinguées.

I wonder if this isn't exactly what they did in samyonboard's case ("squeezing" all vehichles on the car's D16ter)?

I must say that in my email I specified that I'll just carry the bikes for transit to reach Mauri (which should imply that I do not intend to drive them in Morocco). No idea if this makes any difference though.

Anyhow, it remains to be seen if officers at the border agree with this kind of workaround. Of course, if necessary I can now show a printed copy of this email, which is sent by a named officer of the central administration and with the"Chef de Service" in cc. So something more formal than an answer from a random guy of the information office.

I will post when I will figure out the hard way...

Hi to all, I'm planning a trip to morocco next april with some frineds of mine
We will send the bike with an our friend with his toyota and a trailer with 6 motorbikes on it

problem with customs, papers or something else ?
i know about "original cart gris" and the D16ter module
other things to be know ?
My friend will be able to import temporarly 6 motorbike with his toyota ?

thanks in advance
Andrea

to make it easyer, i have asked it last sunday at the border and they told me: one vehicule + one motorcycle nothing more. ????
Otherwise you have to be with more people in the car.

I was also planning to take some bikes into morocco:(

Thanks for sharing. What border was it?

It's pretty confusing at this point, I even got a notification that the answer to my question (see my post above) was archived with a reference number, and I can see it online in the customs website...
There's a field for a followup, I can use it to report what they said to you and ask for a clarifcation; just let me know which border so that I pretend I know for sure from a friend.

It was Tanger

Thanks. Posted a follow up request for clarifications.

PS: as I mentioned I specified clearly in my original question that I just wanted to transit to Mauri, that is maybe seen as different than bringing half a dozen bikes for a group of people to fly in and ride them within Morocco. Though of course there's no way to demonstrate that this is your real intention.

I'll let you know if there is any answer.

Cheers,
Nicola

so can i prepare my own d16 with the pickup and bike on it in advance, or do i have to do the triplicate thing at the port ?

I would say definitely not: what their message says is to prepare one D16ter for each vehicle (it cannot be done otherwise anyhow), and what they will do is to annotate the bikes onto the car's D16ter (by hand? on their database?)
I think it's very likely that some negotiation with the customs officer on duty will be needed to get this done, and I'd not bet that it will work anyhow...

Ah, Ok, thanks Nicola.

we are in contact with an agency that can manage the customs procedure with a cost of 30€ for each bike

Sounds interesting, can you pls share the contact (or send me a PM)?

In Morocco Travel & Events- Booking Online System

I'm waiting for grren card (insurance) answer, I hope they can manage also that
I don't know if the green card can be bought without the owner of motorbike presence

So here's my experience...

As I mentioned in an earlier post, I had sent a question, with all the details of my plans, to the Administration des Douanes through their website:
Requête en ligne
and within a couple of days I got the reply I posted above.

With the printout everything was relatively smooth, though the thing required a couple more iterations and an extra hour than usual. The procedure had to be taken care of by the inspecteur himself. He eventually noted car trailer and bikes on the same D16ter, and filed the printout with the yellow copy they keep in the archive. He told me I was allowed to pass only because of this "special permission".

However in Mauri I met a tour operator driving a truck with seven bikes, who told me he crosses into Morocco regularly and never uses any special procedure. He just gets to the port, skips normal officers, and heads to the big boss. And allows for enough time in his travel plan for the matter to be discussed...

Crossing back from Mauri to Morocco, they seemed not to care at all about this problem. They just packed all plates on the same D16ter, no question asked.

So for what I can tell it should not be impossible for one person to pass with several bikes on a van or trailer, providing he speaks decent french and he's ready for some discussion. However given it's quick and free I'd recommend sending a request to the website of the Administration des douanes and bring a printout of the answer.

HTH,
Nicola

Thanks to Zineb at Bikershome I now have a better understanding of how the new regulations are applied.

1. If all the vehicles are registered to different owners and you have letters giving authority to be transporting them, they will be allowed in.

2. If you are by yourself with one motorbike on/behind a vehicle you should be OK.

3. If you are bringing in several of your own bikes you will likely encounter problems and your success may be dependent on the attitude of the 'head honcho'.

Thats reasuring Tim. Thanks for that.

recent informations obout it. 10 days ago

Tangeri port (MED)

two italian 4x4 with trailer, 8 bikes in total on the trailers
the drivers was not owners of the bikes

on the back of the two d16ter of the 4x4 the police added the list of the bikes

only some hours of patience needed

documents needed, the original "carte gris" of the motorbike.

no delegations or legal delegations needed, also for the "green card" for insurance

price for every bike for the insurance "green card", 93€ each.

came through yesturday, (Thurs).
No problems, two uk bikes on back of pickup. Me and owner of other bike on board.
They put my bike on the form for the pickup.
Didn't seem out of the ordinary for them.

Your experience above matches point 2 below.

Point 3 is the tough area. Peter at Bikershome had problems a few weeks ago entering with three Spanish bikes registered in his name on the back of a 4x4 also registered in his name. Despite having Zineb with him to sweet talk the officials they refused entry. He retreated and waited several hours until the officials changed and tried again, same result.

So he bought a ticket back to Spain and hooked up with some friends who were entering a couple of days later and who had more people than vehicles. This time success.

A month ago crossed with a 4x4 not in my name at Tanger Med. All papers in good order....but they didn't accept my handwritten procuration. Told me to get a more official looking paper with stamps on it.
Took an hour to get the document emailed from London and printed out. Head of customs office grudgingly accepted it although there were no stamps. (Now thinking of buying some nifty looking custom made rubber stamps on ebay, will make African transits easier).
The problem was they had put the car in the depot. Getting it out of there took four hours, including three visits to offices in various corners of the port. And I had no vehicle, so had to walk. There is a small bus service for the port that is free, but drivers only spoke arabic and I mostly had to find the way myself.
The final part of this elaborate bureaucratic torture was having to pay for the parking.
First day is free (from then on 200 Dh per day, therefore lots of deserted vehicles in the depot).
So the bill was for ZERO dirham, but still had to be paid. This could ONLY be done at the small bank office at the eastern gate of the port (almost a kilometer away). So I went there and waited in line, paid zero dirhams and got a receipt in three copies that I had done so.
Now my car was released. By this time I was rather dehydrated and fatigued. I asked - is there anything else? And they said no, I was free to go. Went to the gate and the guard took a look at my pile of documents and let me out. Drove straight to Rabat.
It was only four days later when exiting to Mauretania I realized I had never been given the FEUILLE VERT, the laissez-passer! Expecting to be put in jail for this, I was instead charmed by the new head of customs, a lovely lady in her forties, who had total command of the post and found it very amusing that had I crossed the whole country without the permit to do so.
Next day, thanks to her MASHALLAH everything was sorted.

Or so I thought.
Follow-up to above post.
Passed through Morocco again a month ago. Arriving in Ceuta I was halted by customs claiming I had a car in Morocco since April 2016, still attached to my Numero Police. It appears everything was not sorted at my last exit.
Standing next to a brit who was paying a 4000Dh fine cash for keeping his car in the country one day too long, I expected the worst (cash or jailtime). After some deliberation they made me sign an engagement to have it sorted at the exit in the South, and let me go. Phew.
Arriving at El Guergarat two weeks later I tried to get some attention to sort my engagement but was very much ignored and had a feeling it could get complicated, so I carried on.
Now have a new passport and will try to get a fresh start with a new Numero Police, next trip.

In case anybody is interested, I asked through the ADMII request form how entering with >1 bike on a van/trailer with a single driver will work now that the D16ter has been suppressed (see the discussion at http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...r-in-use-96937). I think the answer is interesting.

First of all, here's the transcript of of my request (which I formulated in a pedanitic way so to avoid any possible misinterpretation):

"Suite à la suppression du modèle D16ter, j'ai une question sur l'AT pour les véhicules de tourisme.
Depuis plusieurs années, chaque hiver je passe deux semaines de vacances en moto au Maroc avec un ami. Pour gagner du temps, mon ami arrive à Tanger Med avec un fourgon avec les deux motos à l'intérieur, et j'arrive à Marrakech en avion. Nous rentrons ensuite en Italie ensemble.
Car mon ami arrive seul à Tanger, je lui donne ma procuration legalisee pour ma moto; avec ça les deux motos ont toujours été anotées sur le corp de la declaration D16ter du fourgon comme spécifié dans votre réponse à ma demande n. [XXXXX] (montré ci-dessous).
Quelle démarche doit être suivie maintenant, avec la suppression du modèle D16ter?"

And here is the answer I promptly got:

"De : Unité centrale chargée des requêtes à l'Administration Centrale

Monsieur,
Faisant suite à votre requête, nous vous informons que dans le but de faciliter le passage en douane, il a été décidé de dispenser les voyageurs à la souscription des déclarations D16 ter à partir du 01/01/2019. Dorénavant, l’admission temporaire des véhicules automobiles est concrétisée par la prise en charge au niveau du système informatique de cette administration « BADR » sur la base de la déclaration verbale du voyageur au moment de son entrée. Il est précisé également à ce propos que conformément à la réglementation, l’admission temporaire peur être accordée pour un véhicule automobile, une remorque et une moto.
Quant à la deuxième moto, elle sera admise temporairement avec prise en charge sur le système informatique au nom de la personne vous accompagnant avec production, en plus des documents de la moto, d’une procuration dûment légalisée ou cas où elle n’est pas le propriétaire de cette moto.
Salutations distinguées."

The first part of the message is the standard reply to enquiries about the suppresson of the D16ter. What is interesting is the second part (in bold) where I understand that:

• Entering with a car+trailer+1 bike is always allowed for a single person.
• For the second bike, the answer is not crystal-clear, as it usually happens. But given that in the question I explicitly mentioned that the van's driver would arrive alone, the literal meaning of the answer is that the second bike will be registered in absentia on the name of the friend who has to arrive by plane. That would be brillant if true!

I am going to try out in a few weeks. I expect the border officer on duty may not share the same view on the matter, but in my experience a printed official reply from the Administration Centrale is taken as an authorization. I also expect that the officer may be willing to register a bike on an absent's person name only with proper documentation (a copy of his passport, arequest signed by him and legalized, a copy of his incoming flight ticket; the more paper the better as usual).

Hope this may help others in the same situation.

My first car, 40 years ago, was a vitesse. I failed my driving test, crashed the car and went to Morocco.
Now I'm back, a better driver but worse mechanic:thumbup1: