Piste advice
 

Hello all,

This is my first post here, so hopefully I won't get :ban: for doing it in the wrong place or the wrong way.

First of all I have to apologise for asking a question that has probably been asked a 1000 times before, but I'm working on a ship in the North Sea with a sh.. :censored: internet connection, so I'm having huge difficulties searching the forum.

I've purchased and read Chris Scott's Morocco Overland. It is an excellent read, but a bit overwhelming, because so many of the pistes sound really good.

I'm flying in to Marrakech on November 23rd, have rented a Prado and will spend 7 full days driving around. The trick is that I've never been to Morocco before, I'm not a super experienced off-roader and I'm bringing a girl (almost on a first date) on the trip, so I have a few challenges lined up :yes:

If anyone could recommend a nice 1 week route that would be sensational :clap:

Ideally I would like to head through the High Atlas (MH) and Sahara (MS), as well as swing by Essaouira (because that's the one thing the girl wants to see) and spend at least a night in Marrakech. Besides that I'm up for anything. I'll bring a tent, but suspect the girl might want a hotel room for at least a few of the nights. Though I'm not a super experienced off-road driver these days, I did drive LR Defenders quite a bit off-road when I was in the army almost 20 years ago, but Norway is a "bit" different from Morocco.

Any input would be greatly appreciated and I will gladly buy you a beer if we meet (assuming we can find some).

- Andreas

Intial suggestion from me :)

from Marrakech take the Tizi n Test road to Taroudannt, stop at Tin Mal on the way - this is Tarmac all the way.

From Taroudannt take MH7 from Morocco Overland to Ouarazazate getting some High Atlas Piste but do able in a day

Ouarazazate head east visiting the Dades and Todra Gorges, but visit Ait Ben Haddou at some point whilst in the Area

At this point your goal is Erfoud/Rissani and Erg Chebbi. If you have time try and visit Hansjorg Voths desert sculptures on the way.

Find a desert Auberge in the shadow of Erg Chebbi for a romantic sunset ;)

Take route MS6 from Rissani to Zagora to get some desert

From Zagora pick a MA route to Tafroute

Then its Tafroute to Essaouira on the road

That would take you around 6days picking up some good pistes an some more touristy highlights. Choice of accommodation along the route varies from 5 star hotels to camping depending on your budget.

Be aware that some Anti Atlas pistes such as MA3 may be blocked check the forum for advice on the current situation but none are particularly hard for the inexperienced

Your initial suggestion looks superb :D Thank you!

I need to go trace it on a map, with Morocco Overland in hand, but this trip looks like it would really hit the sweet spot.

- Andreas

Its just a quick idea tying together some classic sights and routes but in hindsite it would mean you spend all your time travelling so maybe ignore Taroudannt and head straight to Ouarazazate, this would miss out MH7 but give maybe another day to relax somewhere.

I'd recommend a day in Essaouira to relax and watch life go by in the medina

Sounds like a great adventure.

Make sure you watch some videos on how to drive on sand and navigate dunes. It's quite different to how you drive on other surfaces, took me a while to get used to soft sand in a heavy 4x4.

Good idea, it's never nice to rush it too much.

Which route would you do to Ouarzazate? I see you can drive straight there on N9, but would doing N10 from Amerzgane to Anezal and then do MS9 to Ouarzazate be a good idea, or is it starting too hard core?
We land at 14:00 in Marrakech, so I was thinking about going straight to Ouarzazate the first day, but would the detour mean that it takes too long?

Hi James,
I'll definitely look up some videos when I get home, because I can forget watching anything while I'm at sea, due to the :censored: internet connection. Are there any in particular you would recommend?

MS9 was my second ever route :) when I did it 3 years ago it was nice and easy, some development on the edge of Ouarazazate made that section of the route a little out of date. Theres a section along a river bed that may have had some weather damage since I went that way.

Given the timing of your flight, clearing the airport etc you've got a 4ish hour drive to Oarazazate so take the N9 straight there. Generally I'd avoid driving at night as much as possible, done it a few times and it can be alarming. Once you get down from the mountains the road into town is decent. You could look at accommodation around Ait Ben Haddou which is worth a visit although touristy. Its closer to Marakech possibly 3.5 hours drive. I've stayed at Kasbah Cigogne which is nice.

My original idea via Taroudannt wouldn't fit easily with your flight, the route is quite a bit slower.

What do you want to see/achieve during your week? Obviously some off road from your original post and as a first trip possibly some of the sights and Essaouira. It would help advise/suggest routes.

How will you be navigating? maps or gps?

Given you flight time I'm also thinking reversing the route might be better. The road is very good between Marrakech and Essaouira and you could easily be there and having dinner in the Medina on your first night

It's a small World, where that's the first route I pick.

I will do that and will follow your advice and look for Kasbah Cigogne by Ait Ben Haddou.

I'm traveling with a girl that enjoys photography and so do I, so we want to see beautiful scenery and hopefully experience a part of Morocco that the "normal" tourists never get to. I really want to see Sahara, because it's very different from Norway. I have an image in my head of being parked next to a sand dune, with a tent pitched, watching the sunset (with no one else around). I'm also looking forward to spending time in a medina, enjoying the culture.

I also have a dream of going on a "big" trip, for example driving from Norway to South Africa, so this is a small test to see how I enjoy driving in a very different landscape. Without going completely hard-core I would like to drive in slightly challenging terrain to get into it as an introduction.

I'm not sure yet. Olaf seems to be a good choice, if I can get "him" on my iPad. I haven't researched it yet, but am no stranger to using maps (I'm a navigator on the ship I'm on).

That's also a possibility if you think taking the N9 to Ait Ben Haddou will take too long and Kasbah Cigogne will be difficult to find in the dark.

http://kasbah-cigogne.com :) I took my parents over for a trip 4 years ago and we stayed here for a night.

I don't think anyone has fund away of putting Olaf onto an ipad, the maps kinda pre date tablets. But if you have a nav app that will run OSM maps they are pretty good, where they have pistes they are plotted more accurately than Olaf but Olaf has some which aren't in OSM mapping. Check out the navigation section of the forum for much more info on navigation apps etc.

Sticking to the south of the country will tick the boxes for photography and camping in the desert will hopefully give you a stunning sunset/sunrise. I'm sure you know by now that Morocco isn't overly blessed with the big sand seas most people picture but there are some. The 2 main ones are Erg Chebbi at Merzouga (end of MS6) and Erg Chegga near Mhamid off MS7/8.

Erg Chebbi is very popular with all types of tourists, Chegaga slightly less well visited.

Ouarazazate is doable on you arrival but you'll be getting used to a new vehicle and probably stopping for photos across the High Atlas so theres a good chance you'll lose daylight. Night driving is not ideal even you know the country, that 1 light coming towards you could be a moped or a lorry with a light out. Pedestrians, donkeys cyclist etc often have little road sense and no lights. Altogether it adds to quite a stressful time.

The more I think about the more I think if it was me I'd reverse the route. Go to Essaouira first have a couple of nights there, enjoy the medina, souks and ease into Morocco. The town is a popular tourist destination but much more laid back than some others.

I keep thinking of route suggestions but struggle to tick all the boxes inside a weeks trip. As first time visitors and photographers some things will take a little longer with soaking up the views and getting photos

Speaking of which, have a look at my flikr for some photos of my trips, they're tagged with the route reference from Morocco Overland and also geolocated to you can see where they were taken
https://www.flickr.com/photos/trackasylum/sets/

I've done some thinking on what you suggested ... and though it might be easier to go to Essaouira first, I would like to do it last, simply because then we can relax and chill out there for two nights, before heading for a last night in Marrakech. It will be a nice way to end the vacation ... If we start in super relaxed mode, I'm worried that we might never get out of town ;)

As to driving in the dark: I have driven in strange countries in the dark, so I'll be taking it carefully, making sure we get there in one piece, without leaving anyone else in pieces behind us.

Is Marrakech worthwhile spending a night in (with our limited time), or would you focus on the other places instead and drive straight from Essaouira to the airport?

Right now, my rough plan looks like this:

Sunday: arrive and drive straight to Casbah Cigogne
Monday: Explore the area around Ouarazazate and move on.
Tuesday:
Wednesday
Thursday: Head to Essaouira
Friday: Essaouira
Saturday: Marrakech (depending on advice)
Sunday: Fly out of Marrakech at 14:55

Basically Monday afternoon, Tuesday and Wednesday will be spent exploring the south and then on Thursday we head to Essaouira (unless the consensus is to skip Marrakech, then we can head to Essaouira on Friday and have an extra day in the south).

Erg Chegaga sounds good to me (I like the sound of driving across Iriki as part of MS7).

The question is, would you still recommend doing (and do I have enough time?):
Ouarazazate - Dades - Risani - Erg Chebbi - MS6 (Merzouga - Tagounite) - MS7 (Taconite - Foum Zguid) and then on paved roads to Essaouira.

I will have a look in the nav section for some suggestions on how to get maps along.

I will check out your pictures as soon as I get on land, because the Internet here at sea...

Thank you very much for your help this far ... I hope you understand how much I appreciate it!

- Andreas

Marrakech is good the main square is certainly something to experience, but its also an easy long weekend trip so maybe save it for another trip and have another day down south.

Are picking up/returning the prado to the airport? Just thinking if you've already paid the rental then it seems a little silly to have it sat in a car park somewhere costing money.

Personally I prefer MS6 as a route but when I did MS7 this year it was in a sand storm so did really see the dunes etc.

On the nav side Bertrand has just posted today he's got Olaf working in an android app so maybe there is a way to get it onto a iPad.

Sunday: arrive and drive straight to Casbah Cigogne
Monday: Ait BenHaddou, Dades Gorge, Todra Gorge, Desert Sculptures, Erfoud (5 hour drive on road, a little piste to the sculptures, leaving time for the sights but could be a long day)
Tuesday:MS6 wild camp (MS6 can be done in a day but you won't be able to drive past Erg Chebbi without having a look :) )
Wednesday Ms6 finish, MS7 start (easy ish day maybe wildcamp around Erg Chegaga)
Thursday: MS7 finish Tata (can't recommend accommodation other than the municipal campsite which isn't bad but I haven't stayed anywhere else there are hotels and after 2 nights camping you may want some comfort)
Friday: Tata to Essaouira (6 hour drive on road take the coast road north from Agadir not the motorway much more scenic)
Saturday: Essaouira
Sunday: Fly out of Marrakech at 14:55

or

Sunday: arrive and drive straight to Casbah Cigogne
Monday: Ait BenHaddou, Dades Gorge, MH4 across Jbel Sahro to Nkob (you could start on MH10 and finish MH4 as they connect)
Tuesday: MS2 then onto MS7 camp at Erg Chegaga
Wednesday :MS7 to Tata easy day 50/50 road/piste
Friday: Tata to Essaouira
Saturday: Essaouira
Sunday: Fly out of Marrakech at 14:55

MS7/MS8 interconnect at get you the same places but MS8 wasn't passable a few weeks ago whether that's been sorted I don't know.

None of the pistes are difficult but as you are on your own be cautious with any dunes in case you get stuck and with any off road routes conditions change so you may need you plans as you go.

No problems on the advice, I love Morocco and if I can help others have a good trip thats even better :D

I suppose one unknown for me in advising is what you would consider an easy day. I'm normally up at dawn and on the road as soon as I can doing around 10 hour days. Its sounds a lot but I find being up and off early means you have time to stop take photos and drive a little slower

I really like the suggestions you've come with. I haven't decided which one of them to go for ... I'll need more time to look at them ... and like you said, conditions could change, so we need to be ready to adapt to changes.

"Plans are nothing; planning is everything" - Eisenhower

We're picking up the Prado and delivering it at the airport, but the odd thing was that it cost the same to have it 5, 6 or 7 days, so I went for the full week. So it won't matter if it gets a bit of rest in Essaouira.

I'll see if I can have a look at the navigational aspects tomorrow. If someone has gotten Olaf into an Android, then there might be a way into an iPad.

Like you, I'm up early, to take advantage of the daylight, so 10-hour days would be the norm. Of course once we get to Essaouira, we can kick back a bit :cool4:

I think we got it now :clap: Between the two itineraries, the trip will be awesome. Thank you so much for your help. I'll be in touch if more questions arise. If you ever drive by Norway, I'll be more than happy to come with recommendations... and a chance for a bier

Hello,

I've been following the thread on the recent rainfall in Morocco and am wondering at the feasibility of doing the following itinerary starting today (I'm in the airport flying to Morocco now):

I simply don't know to be honest. Looking at Chris's and others posts the rain is causing a lot of problems across the south which has effecting main roads as well as pistes

Most of that suggested route is on tarmac so may be ok. MS7 skirts just north of Lac Iriki which could be wet and muddy. Best advice is to keep a eye on the forum and ask locally about conditions.

Enjoy your trip

We tried to get to Ait Benhaddou today, but the police turned us back by Ait-Ourir, and after some soul searching, we drove back to Marrakech, to wait out the rain and lay a new plan.

There's plenty to see in Marrakech to keep you busy and if things don't improve the road west to Essaouira is very good so I can't see it being affected by the floods to the south

Hope the weathers improves for you

There's a piste heading east from Foum Zguid along the north shore of Lac Iriki which you can use when the lake is flooded. The locals call it the "route de la Montagne" It's unpleasantly rough and I'd rather wait for the lake to dry out. Chances are if the lake is flooded, Mhamid could be cut off anyway.


Happy trails,


Peter

Not all things are going as expected: first the weather turns us back to Marrakech and now I've just spent two hours in the police station after two guys trashed the rental car (along with 4 other cars) at the car park. The attendants didn't dare to stop the guys, because both were drunk and one had a big machete. Luckily the police came by and apprehended them. Front and rear windows are smashed and this could be an expensive adventure, because I didn't get the "extra" insurance to reduce the deductible, as it cost an extra €200, so now I'm looking at maybe loosing the 36,000 MAD deductible.

It's safe to say that it's been an eventful first day in Morocco.

Does anyone have any experience with someone trashing their rental car and how this plays out with the deductible?

Good luck with sorting out the car dude! I've had similar issues in the US (third party/criminal damage) and they just swapped the car for us, had Max insurance though, no deductable At the moment I'd put plans of heading south on hold until the roads clear. I'm stuck in Ozt at the moment with a rental 4x4 that needs to go back to Marrakech. They don't have an office in Ozt :( (Medloc).

We've done a few pistes with h no probs over the past week with limited off road experience, no probs at all but it 'was' mostly dry for us. I'll dig out the numbers when I get a chance.

Hope you enjoy your trip, despite setbacks! Dave

The company might see this as an opportunity to try to stiff you, but you shouldn't need to pay more than the cost of repair and their losses whilst the vehicle is off the road. A front windscreen for a Toyoya Prado costs around 180€, but of course will be more than that in Morocco with import taxes. How long they have to wait for the parts will come into the equation, but I'd hope you could get away with less than 1,000€.

.

I would have though Toyota Maroc have a decent amount of screens in stock without import taxes. Whenever I've bought new genuine parts in Maroc they have been no more expensive than the UK or Europe.

FrozenViking - you trip isn't getting off to a great start, hope thinks get better for you soon and it doesn't put you off Morocco

FrozenViking: it might be worth your while trying to find a Toyota dealer and either getting it repaired now, or at least finding out the costs and whether any delay in getting parts is anticipated.

Hello all,

Thank you very much for all your input. I had unfortunately already returned the car, before I saw your message Tim. The Moroccan police was very adamant that I should not have to pay for this, since it was a criminal attack, but I'm not holding my breath. One good thing was that the hotel manager at the hotel we stayed at in Marrakech knew the Marrakech Airport Europcar manager, and the Europcar manager said he would do what he could to make sure that we didn't have to pay, but we'll see. I think we'll end up with the bill, but hopefully it won't be too outlandish. We returned the car and didn't get a new car, to avoid having to pay losses while the car was off the road.

I figured the weather wasn't going to make a southern trip possible before Sunday (when we fly back to Norway), so the point of having a 4x4 was gone. Instead we jumped on a bus to Essaouira, checked in to a nice hotel (the girl had some coupons that gave us a 5-star hotel for next to nothing), so now we're chilling out, eating good food and enjoying a VERY different vacation from what I had planned.

The weather might have stopped me this time, but I now have a great itinerary for next time.

- Andreas

What a blow getting your rental car smashed up. Sounds like your car trip was not meant to be. Happened to me in Anchorage once - presumed it was also a local drunk once I eliminated freezing temps which are not so unusual there.

Was this in an open or underground or street side parking in Marrakech?

There is no way front and rear windows add up to 36,000 MAD. Might your credit card cover it? Hope it works out.

Ch

Shit happens and it sucks, but we're making the best of it. It can happen here, in Anchorage or in Norway for that matter ... "Surprising" that in a country where the locals aren't allowed to drink that drunk guys are trashing cars.

Open parking, but with three guys patrolling it. They couldn't do much as the drunk guy was going crazy with a big machete. The police apprehended the guy, but not before he had trashed 8 cars (I thought it was 5, but it turned out he had gone to town on 8 cars).

I'm hoping to find out in the next couple of days what the cost will be. Traveling insurance, credit cards, etc. have all come up short ... Not surprising, they're happy to take your money, but to pay out of their pockets ... Not so much.

Glad to hear you trip has got a bit better and hasn't put you off returning again.

Morocco does have an interesting approach to alcohol and how to drink it. The way the law covers drunks is also very unusual, under the Moroccan system a drunk cannot be held responsible for his actions!

The authorities are clamping down on alcohol abuse. The hypermarket chain Marjane no longer stocks it. Having seen the state of some of the poor souls who would be filling their trolleys with bottles of spirits, etc. it's not surprising.
Officially, it's forbidden to sell alcohol to Muslims and forbidden for them to buy it. However, this has cut off a major domestic outlet for the Moroccan wine & lager manufacturers.

Happy trails,

Peter

How's the girl enjoying the trip? Considered taking my girlfriend if/when I go on the bike.

Exactly how I feel about it when I look back at an evening of drinking ;)

We found the local alcohol shop in Essaouira (not part of a supermarket) and have been able to buy different Moroccan wines as well as Flag, Cassablanca and Stork there, so while the weather might be crap, we've kept our spirits high :thumbup1:

The girl is enjoying it. She wasn't a fan of Marrakech, but really likes Essaouira. Here we've sampled different restaurants, explored the souk and had a relaxing time. As long as your girlfriend doesn't walk around in hotpants and a bikintop, she won't get undue attention. The people are nice and the food is great, so I'm sure she'll have a good time.

I'm back in Norway after an interesting trip to Morocco, where hardly anything went according to plan, but we still had a good time. A friend of mine from South Africa said it best: TIA (This Is Africa), so expect the unexpected.

I'm writing this post, so that everyone will know how things ended with Europcar and because I want to upload a couple of pictures. Europcar sent the final bill to me this morning (which I was expecting, but hoped against hope, that they wouldn't do). The grand total for fixing the windshield and the rear window came to 15,250 MAD, so while it was quite a bit shy of the 36,000 MAD deposit, it's still a solid chunk of change. The insurance company and my credit card company won't cover it (citing crap I never saw), so it's sadly out of our pockets. Here's what the car looked like:

http://i59.tinypic.com/k9z8rs.jpg
http://i62.tinypic.com/29ldxz4.jpg

And this is what caused the rear window to break. He had thrown it with a lot of force, because we found it by the gas pedal (it's a 1 kg weight).

http://i58.tinypic.com/2rxv6nq.jpg

A total of 8 cars were trashed by the machete wielding drunk, who can now look forward to a few years behind bars. We actually met his sister in the police station and though we didn't talk to her, her feeling towards her brother were quite clear: she kept showing him the "I'm going to cut your throat finger move", so when he's served his jail time, he can look forward to catching up with his menacing sister.

The rest of our Morocco trip was spent relaxing at two good hotels in Essaouira, eating at lots of good restaurants, enjoying a hammam and exploring the souk in-between downpours. I'm by no means put off by Morocco, but hope the weather will have improved by next time. It's awful what's happening in exactly the area we were planning to drive through, so while I'm sad we were unable to go through with the planned itinerary, I'm very happy we didn't manage to get there at this time.

Since we didn't have a car for the rest of the trip, I had to lug around: sleeping bags, Thermarest, a tent, a portable compressor, my Leatherman, a towing strap, Chris's books (I brought the Overlander's Handbook and Morocco Overland), GPS, and maps ... but hey, now I have everything for next time ... and there will be a next time, though then I'll opt to pay the extra 3000 MAD to reduce the deductible ;)

Thank you everyone, who helped with input and advice. You guys are awesome!

You could just refuse that much for the damage, and then contest it if/when they try to contact you in Norway.

Never heard of it raining so much Morocco. These floods are crazy.

The problem is that they have a pre-signed credit card authorisation from me (from when I picked up the car). The amount was charged to my Mastercard yesterday (that's how I knew the final bill) ... I haven't paid my Mastercard bill yet (that's due in January).

It's a good idea though, thanks for the suggestion. I'll contact my credit card company and challenge it, and see what they say.

Good luck. In the UK we also have the Financial Ombudsman that we can complain to once options have been exhausted with the CC company. I presume there is something similar in Norway.

It's a lot of hassle, but worth it if you can reduce your liability by a few hundred €

I have twice been assisted by credit card companies against shady car rentals.
Once in Colombia, once in Los Angeles, in both cases they were abusing my in blanco signature. Both times I had the full amount restored to my account and a reprimand sent to the offenders.
I am sure they will help you, too!

To be fair it doe snot sound like a shady car rental company. there was real damage. You saved money by not taking out the damage insurance ... over the years that will probably save you money. This time you were unlucky. In this country your recompense would be to sue the drunk through the civil courts - assuming they had some money.
I really appreciate your post very interesting, thought provoking and overall positive despite adversity.

The thing is that I had insurance, but I didn't pay to reduce the deductible. That's why I think it's a bit shady. They agree that I have insurance ... It's just that the deductible is 36,000 MAD and you can pay extra to reduce it... In my mind, if you have insurance, that shouldn't be necessary.

Very true. The perpetrator was poor, so the police assured us he would be in jail for many (1-3) years, to "pay" for his sins, because he wouldn't be able to pay for the damages. I think jail time is a very severe punishment for breaking a few windshields and would have been much happier with an apology (and some cash to cover the windshields).

As an interesting sidenote, I contacted Nissan Norway to find out the price here in Norway for new windshields, seals, wiper, lights, etc. and in Norway it would have cost at least 25,000 MAD for the repair (granted at an expensive "brand" garage), so in that sense 15,100 MAD (which I was charged by Europcar) is quite reasonable.

I can't be the only reader puzzled by this whole train of thought. You bought insurance with a high deductible. You knowingly declined the added cost to lower the deductible. You then found yourself wishing the deductible was lower...but it's not, because you decided not to pay for that option. How is that "shady?" You took a chance, assumed a degree of risk, and wish you'd chosen otherwise.

What's more, it appears the rental company charged a fair price to fix the damage. Sounds like you did pretty well, considering. Had the same thing happened in your home country (or mine)--crazed person batters under-insured rental car with a machete--you'd be out even more money for the repair, and chances are good-to-excellent the rental company would have tried to overcharge you on top of that.

All this talk about suing the person responsible is just talk--you'd have to pay lawyers and invest a lot of time to get a judgment against someone who, by your report, doesn't have the resources to pay no matter what the court decides. Best to cut your losses and adjust your view of optional insurance coverage on future rental vehicles.

Of course, I'm totally open to any indication I've misunderstood any or all of the above. And I'm definitely not denying the whole situation must have been supremely frustrating and exhausting.

Mark

First offense in Colombia - the engine overheated on a Lada and they charged for a full restoration. I notified Visa, Visa asked the rental company for documentation, which they sent on to me (I still have it), and without any questions refunded the full amount.
Second offense in Los Angeles I was way overcharged and they ignored my protests. Overcharge was refunded.
I would assume VISA/MC are on the customer's side also in this incident and will ask the rental company for documentation of their actual cost.
This is one of the upsides of using a credit card.

In the UK it's becoming increasingly common to purchase 'Excess' cover (how we refer to the 'Deductable') due to high charges for reducing (or eliminating) the Excess with the rental company itself. You can buy Annual policies to cover whenever you rent a vehicle over a year, or do it for a specific rental.

Sounds stupid, but actually it normally works out cheaper than paying the extra charges with rental companies to reduce or remove the excess/deductible. I did it for my Morocco trip a few weeks ago and the excess cover was about £20 for two drivers for a week, I thought that was pretty reasonable given the 20,000DHM Excess on the Pajero.

Dave