Syria and Iraq questions
 

Hello!
I`m planning to go on 21 august 2007 to see Bulgaria-Turkey-Iraq-Syria-Turkey-Bulgaria-Greece-Albania-Serbia and back to Romania on my Africa Twin.
Well, my first question is, if anyone entered succesfully in Iraq from Turkey (only the kurdish region in north). I don`t have a visa, becouse at the embasy they practicly laughed at me and i couldn`t obtain one. I`ve heard that you can get a temporary permit to enter the kurdish region, at the borders with Turkey, and i will try my luck, but any advice would be welcomed.
My second question, if you can get from Iraq to Syria, if the borders are opened ...
Well, and the third question and most important. I have obtained a visa for Syria, but i don`t have a carnet de passage. I`ve have heard rumors that you can get a temporary import permit from the borders at about 100 usd, other rumors that you can`t get without that carnet ... So, if anyone had any experince with those problems, can i enter without the carnet in Syria or ... ?

Don't go to Iraq
 

Don't go to Iraq. Leave it for a few years. You will not last a few days without a professional personal protection team. This is fact. The Kurdish region in the north seems safe by comparison to the rest of Iraq, but that does not mean it is safe.

- there are still regular kidnappings in the north;
- there are still regular bombings, including recently at the regional Ministry of Interior HQ in Irbil;
- Mosul is under seige by Islamists - women and Christian communities are increasingly persecuted;
- Kirkuk is being fought over by various interest groups and is a very dangerous city. As a decision on Constitutional Article 140 approaches, which will decide the fate of Kirkuk's governance, the violence will only get worse;
- the KRG is not a government that comes under the scrutiny of the west or the media generally - think Syria's Assad without the media and US pressure;
- Turkish troops are massed on the border and are ready to cross into northern Iraq to deal with the PKK militants. The Iraqi and Turkish governments are engaged in talks to avert a major incursion. Attacks are already occurring in Dahuk province (the top left of the three Kurdish provinces) and the border crossing near Zakho is closed. Several residents were reportedly killed in the fighting and many thousands are on the move;
- the PKK are becoming more active in the north - and they are very nasty;
- the UNHCR estimates about 800,000 internally displaced Iraqis are currently in the Kurdish region.

Despite the KRG's tourism promotion this is not a place to roam about without major security support (ie guys with guns and armoured cars).

Read the travel advisory issued by your country. And believe it. By all means fly into Irbil or Sulaymaniya at the invitation and protection of the regional government(s), but don't leave the airport for any length of time on your own, and definitely don't leave the city.

Crossing the border from the Kurdish north into Syria is simply insane for a tourist. There are no crossings from the KRG controlled part of northern Iraq. You need to ride about 50kms into non-KRG Iraq. I would give your chances of survival or not being kidnapped about 50/50 at the Tall Kujik crossing (and of course you'd need to ride through Mosul to get there, and the dozens of security checkpoints inside and west of the city) and 0% at the Abu Kamal crossing (a Japanese backpacker lost his head there in 2005). The crossings west of Sinjar meaning riding through the Tall Afar badlands - this should only be done at supersonic speed well above the ground. And risk all this for a bike ride?

The borders into Turkey are a day-by-day proposition. As I said, the Turks are gathered on the border and are fighting across the border in some areas. Both the Turks and the Kurds are hostile to tourists in this area - those who have ridden in far-southeast Turkey will know what I mean - and you will not be welcomed with open arms. My guess is the Kurds would let you in but the Turks might not let you approach the border. Make no mistake, if you were allowed to cross the border plenty of people would then know about it. If you bounced around from security official to security offical enjoying their hospitality you'd probably be ok, but otherwise...

Don't give up on visiting northern Iraq - it is stunningly beautiful - but leave it for a while. In the meantime you'd be better off taking a ride through Chechnya - it'd be safer.

Cheers
Brett

Hi,

Brett is right. The situation in Irak and the Turkish-Irak border is a nightmare at the moment. Turkish army is ready to enter Irak and also Turkish Army controls some roads and gate on that part and wont let anyone in.

Save Journey

Well, i know is a dangerous area, and i have a good chance of not comming back, but i can`t wait :) I want to see Iraq now ...
Anyway, i`ve already bought a bullet proof vest from ebay and some protective gear, so i`m feeling lucky :)
And after all, i will stay only 2 or 3 days in Iraq, i`ll stop only at the iraq army/nato checkpoints, i`ll buy some arabic clothes in turkey and wear them instead of motorcycle suit :), and if the situation is tense i will stay only in kurdish region and i will go to Sysia via turkey.
That if i`m lucky enough to let me in in Iraq ... If not, i`ll turn back and go straight to Syria, but at least i`ve tryed ...

And talking about Syria, can i enter or not without a carnet de passage, even paying for a temporary import permit at the border, knows anyone something ? :)

...and there is no fuel
 

If you are willing to ignore the security warnings then I have another reason travel will be difficult. There is no petrol. Iraqis queue all day to buy from the local vendor. You can buy it on the black market but, besides having to know where, you will still have to wait hours. The primary reason there isn't much electricity in Iraq is the lack of fuel for the power stations. Not sure how long your disguise will last while waiting in an 8-hour queue on a bike with foreign plates.

On the bright side however, you might make the Darwin Awards!

One less fuel stop
 

"Unknown gunmen" blew up a fuel station in Kirkuk last night killing one staff and injuring another.

Be warned: war voyeurs are rarely welcomed.

I`m planning only 300-400km in Iraq, so with a full gas of tank from Turkey, this won`t be a problem ...

Good luck Marcos
 

Marcos,

You sound pretty determined to give Northern Iraq a try (I have also considered the possibility). There is plenty of advice on why not to go, but should you still go ahead with your trip make should you keep the HUBB updated with travels.

Should the worst happen (hopefully it won't!) make sure your friends post your obituary on this site!

Good luck and bon voyage.

Baswacky.

Iraq is without a doubt the most dangerous country on the planet at the moment. If you feel you need bulletproof vests, try to disguise yourself etc., maybe you should consider again, whether or not its a wise place to put ones nose into?

But I dont think they will let you in the country anyway... will probably be for your own good, too.

I spent a few years in the British Army in Germany (just as a humble mechanic, mind), and i understand the attraction of wanting to see a warzone/prove your manliness etc. If you want to tweak the nipples of death then go for it... but you have no right to put your rescuers/recoverers lives' at risk in the process. Enjoy the fear!:stormy:

As much as I doubt anyone would be seriously considering a trip like this, it's probably worth going through the motions to deter people thinking this is actually possible.

The bulletproof vest. These are a controlled item and cannot be carted around the place like a pair of socks. They are considered the same as firearms in many places - like Turkey and Syria. Get caught with one crossing the border into Syria and you will be looking forward to ten years in a Syrian prison. Get caught with one in northern Iraq and you won't get off that lucky. I expect the Turkish military on the northern Iraq border would assume you are a Kurdish militant and not bother with the questions. But then they are fighting their war and you are dressed as a foreign combatant so what do you expect? I wouldn't be surprised if their Rules of Engagement actually made it legal. Get a border search in any of those countries you propose to ride through and you will be doing bread and water for many birthdays. Of course there is a way to manage it - you could export and then import the vest through each border, but if any of these countries actually allowed it (remember, this is exactly the same as importing a firearm), it would be many birthdays before you got the permits, and you would need to transport it in a rated safe-box. Any way you look at it - very bad idea.

Pottsy is right. If you go missing there will be dozens of people looking for you. There is a relatively large Romanian Embassy in Baghdad and they would be compelled to drop everything and coordinate an investigation into your whereabouts. It would also drag in other countries' assets and the Iraqi Police. They'd probably wish they'd shot you themselves.

This is such a bad idea. It's important that no-one here gets an inkling that it's possible. There are plenty of wars you can go and look at, and being an outsider you might be ok. There are no outsiders in Iraq. There are Romanian troops in Iraq at the moment, and in many eyes that makes you one of the bad guys. If you want to see the place join the army.

Well, for the bullet proof vest, i will be wearing it under my clothes, and if they check it, i would simply say it`s a motorcycle jacket with protection :)

Well, i know all about the risks of going in Iraq ... I know that i have a good chance of no returning ... But, in my opinion, all that risk is worth for what i would get in return. At this moment, nothing would change my mind, i have almost a week until departure.

Here is my trip plan (only in romanian). Also, here, if i`m lucky enough to make it, i will post my story (in english and romanian).
2 ROTI: Turcia/Iraq/Siria

Don't bother with the, so called, bullet proof vest it won't do anything for you when you are searched - anyone carrying out a search knows what they are like!
Please bear in mind that motorcycles are used by suicide bombers; you will be searched, very thoroughly.

As you seem "dead" set on going to a warzone, may i recommend Afghanistan. Recently, i was in Bangkok and in a little travel shop off the Kao San Road was an offer of a return airfare to Kabul - $600! On enquiring about a visa, i was told "no problem, $100 for a month". No bike worries...Interested?

More bad news for you Marcos. Most bullet proof vests will not save you from a .762 round fired from the AK-47s that are favoured by Iraqis (from all sides). They are designed to stop low-velocity handguns, not high-powered rifles. Of course you can buy a kevlar-plated vest used by coalition troops in Iraq but look at paying $2000, and that's assuming anyone would sell you one, and then . But nothing will save you from a automatic burst of 762 at short range.

I like the idea of the Afghanistan diversion. Your TV series, "the Noisy Way Round" should be a big hit.

On the news...
 

If you speak Arabic than the odds are probably with you Marcos. After all many Saudis, Eqyptians and citizens of other Arab states with excellent relations with America are able to travel widely around Iraq without encountering much hassle until they decide to detonate themselves a la the villages hit two days ago. Maybe you should instead get to Iran asap; their a country whos citizens are imho more peripheral to the carnage in Iraq with the tens thousands butchered including many poor young western soldiers but whom the Americans seem intent on blaming and escalating tensions.
Alas, the great silk route travellers take from Europe to deepest Tropical Asia may become another casualty of Saudi fundamentalist actions in New York six years ago.

Is it fame?
 

Hi Marcos,
may I ask you why do want to go to Irak?

Having recently ridden through Syria without a Carnet I could advise you on this, but actually I want to tell you something different:
Please dont go to the middle east at all!
With all Respect: In a fragile region with distorted and troubled views of western society anyway, I doubt that a guy with your mindset will be able to have any positive influence at all. Rather to the contrary...

On the other hand I dont know you and it might be all different. But please reconsider the reasons for your travel.


Andi

Well, it`s a little bit more complicated ... I have already 5 accidents with my motorcycles, 2 of them ending in a hospital room, and too many to remember in offroad. It wasn`t my fault in any of them (except the offroad ones) ... Too many agresive drivers here in romania, being a biker is like playing russian roulette ...
So, i`m not afraid of dying anymore, i`ve seen the old lady, it`s cold and ugly, but i have made peace with it ... She rides with me, sometimes i can feel her scythe gently scratching on my back ... But it`s ok ...
What i`m expecting from Iraq ? Maybe , seeing all that death and suffering i`ll be afraid again ... hopefully ...
So, you could call it a quest for the lost fear of death ...

Anyway, i`m almost ready and on tuesday morning i will depart ... If you hear on the news that a crazy stupid romanian biker had been slayed, well that`s me :) If not, i would probably have a good story on my return ...

Well, Iraq here i come ;)

Dump the old lady
 

Marcos,

Iraq is one thing, but trying to get into Iraq carrying a scythe is plain stupid. Tell the old lady to get her own bike!

Good luck.

Baswacky.

Still running?
 

Any news from Marcos? Anyone can read Romanian? 2 ROTI: Turcia/Iraq/Siria

This is no joke...Northern Iraq may be beautiful and the plan in your mind might seem good; but reality is much more creative than you can imagine...so proceed with caution...


As going to Iraq might land you in Guantanamo Bay or in some Eastern European prison for a while as an "enemy combatant"...Google that and see how that ranks on the Fun Meter.

Take a tip from one that live here
 

Adventure riding is riding in great places exploring new roads and new palces. all on two wheels. smells, colors, cold, hot, lonly or not etc. Going to places like Iraq today is not adventure biking, its a foolish child trying to be "brave" , a bike is not needed, just go there and get shot at (or blast to atoms by a bomb with your new kevlar vest).

Sorry for the tone, its is no game here now! and it must be said very clear!

Yoni
from Israel

BrettUAE, Yoni,

you guys did a marvelous job of trying to save a life. Perhaps more lives, even, than our crazy Romanian friend. But this guy had a chip on his shoulder. Indeed, he's a war junkie that is borderline suicidal. Maybe seeing people dead and dying will restore his fear of death (as he says) but I suspect he is already very much afraid of death and this trip is simply to confront those fears. As far as his odds go... he won't get into Iraq legally. If he does, he may or may not survive (I had a friend who snuck into Baghdad during the "shock and awe" wave of American bombings to see if he wanted to be a war photographer... he doesn't.) The point is... well, the point is he's nuts. But after stern warnings (we've all been warned about places to avoid... places that we went anyway and enjoyed) in the end, we all have to go our way. This dude is going to Iraq. Dear God. Has anyone heard from him?

To be honest Lost, I don't think he was serious. He wouldn't get across any border in the area he was talking about anyway - and that's a fact. But it is still important to be heavy-handed at these suggestions and remove the perception of travel through a war-zone as being somehow romantic. There are people living in these places, and for them the experience is very real.

But sorry there I go again...self-righteous rant, rant, rant...

cheers
Brett

This is my own view, nothing more, but I can only think of 2 good reasons, why any (non-military) person should go to Iraq now: to give aid to the suffering, or to report the events to the world.

To go there as a tourist, and maybe try to be a "hero" of some sort (mostly in your own head only) who´s ´able to do something others dont dare´, or whatever, is just sick. Theres a line between being brave and being stupid, and its quite clear on which side going to Iraq is.

In case you dont have one single relative or other loved one back home then fine, its your own life, and your free to fool around with it. But there are plenty of places, where you dont have to worry each second, when somebody´s going to kill you. And if that danger is indeed, whats giving you the ´kicks´, I think you´d really need to have your head examined.

I as much as anyone understand the risk and the consequential excitement of a place like Iraq, having spent quite a portion of my recent past there.

Therefore I couldn't condemn Marcos for his actions without being properly hypocritical! The difference is I have been well financially recompensed for my time there, and had a job to do. Despite being a bit of an adreneline hunter I would NEVER step into that country without the protection of arms and others suitably armed.

I also speak quite good Iraqi Arabic for a Westerner, and have a fair bit of terping experience there - but I don't kid myself for a second that my language skills would fool an Iraqi for a split second, or do me much good with some of the people who you could encounter.

It is also laughable that you might be able to laugh off a bullet proof vest as bikewear - these are people who have been born to war. Besides the fact I wouldn't fancy taking even one 7.62 in commercially available body armour!

I am curious though - does anybody know if this laudably foolhardy adventure took place?

It is a beautiful country with some incredible people, but I won't be recommending visiting it to my friends and family for a long while.

birdy
 

Ho you brits, I had to reach "Babilon" to undestand all you've said (...about Babilon-Iraq:)). At the end, it was well written and i agree with all youv'e wrote.
And don't worry I beleave Marcos did not get a thousand miles from Iraqi border, those who write like he did, usually have a profile of unmatured kids that flings around subjects, just to be spoken about.

yoni

Updated information Anyone??
 

I am looking for some updated information on this area.
I would like to cross from Iran into Iraq and then onto Syria, therefore I am after tips, tricks at the boarder or just to hear that someone has done it.

I am planning on hitting that area around the middle of next year, I imagine....
Only time will tell how fast I will be travelling!

Thanks

hello
i have done some research on this.
entering iraq (kurdistan!! 3 areas: dahuk, Arbil and As Sulaymaniyah )from iran is no problem at piranshar border.
the border to syria is not possible as far as i know because it is not located in iraqi kurdistan. visa for free at the border of piranshar. this is a visum only for iraqi kurdistan.
so what to do is entering from iran to iraq (stay in safe kurdistan) and then entering turkey at Silopi/zakho and then going to syria.
avoid kirkuk and mosul! it looks easy to drive this roads but it is outside iraqi kurdistan and not totally safe.

I hope this helps. i have to say that i haven't been there but this is what other people where telling me at the internet.

northern Iraq
 

I met a Canadian rider in Nairobi a month ago, and he rode into N Iraq from turkey and spent about 10days there. He was told at the border to avoid Mosul and Kirkuk. Rode to Iran border but not into Iran. Said it was fantastic. Try looking for "David Radford" blog. (gsguy.wordoress.com)
He loved it.
Have heard second-hand stories about two other tourists there as well. Other posts here as well.
I plan to go through Iraq to Iran in about 1 month, if things are still cool up there.
Forward

Baghdad
 

Hey guys,

Firstly, I'd like to commend you for your sense of adventure, good on you but I'd also like to ask as to why you would put yourself in such OBVIOUS danger?? Do you have blinkers on and want to do a bit of 'War Tourism'? Or have great bragging rights when you or should I say 'If you' get home?

Ok, you may be thinking 'Who is this guy?' whom asks and says this and your right to ask. I've been working here in Iraq now as a professional bodyguard and medic since 2004 (2003 if you include the military) having travelled in a professional capacity throughout the country of Iraq, North/South/East/West and have seen the topsy turvy and extremely violent times here in this country (I'm in Baghdad at the moment typing this) and can tell you that even though some people may say everything has calmed down LET ME TELL YOU NOW--IT HAS NOT! One of the biggest threats at this moment is Kidnap. The criminal gangs are more prevalent than the 'insurgent' and a nice white guy with an expensive bike will look like an easy target.
At the kidnap stage they'll want to know who you are, nationality, who you work for to assess your worth. If you work for an NGO or the US government or some other corporation then you'll be worth $$$'s. If not, then you'll be worth nothing but trouble and the chances are it's a shallow ditch just to get rid of you!! They only have to be lucky once, you have to be lucky EVERYDAY!
On the other side, it's well known for 'trouble' countries to be fine in the countryside as the general populous aren't interested in the politics but merely want to get on with their lives in a quiet and peaceful manner, the choice they say, is yours! But what happens if at the border your sent back and have to go to Kirkuk or Mosul for visa issues?? Can't avoid it then can you?

These are still hard times for the Iraqi people and the reconstruction of the country is still in it's infancy, please don't give them tempting targets through ignorance. If you want beautiful scenery and great roads there are a million other places to go to in safety. I hear of 'tourists' coming to Iraq and getting into problems, to me they're idiots and I'd hate to hear of a fellow biker being in the same circumstances.

Whether you agree with my $0.02c worth or not, I am here. Any questions then just ask.

Be safe

Geoffshing,

I'm neither a war tourist nor an idiot. Just intrigued by a friend's photos and experiences of his trip to northern Iraq.

It can be difficult to determine what the reality is with such different viewpoints on a
situation, so I appreciate your input.

Over and out on this thread.

checking
 

As for the bulletproof vests - that's a red herring designed to discourage Marcos, isn't it? I've found no references to Turkey/Syria banning bulletproof vests - in fact there's a forum post from a journalist who says no trouble bringing a bulletproof vest from Syria to Lebanon