IRAQ = a must see
 

Hey guys!

Thought I would post up a mini report on visiting northern iraq as there arnt many posts around...

As background... Im a solo rider, 23, rode from the UK to Iraq, the bike is an XT660R.

So, I entered Iraq via Turkey, the turkish half was crazy and nothing like the turkish border from bulgaria... you literally have to barge, shout and elbow your way to the front of the single miniscule window surrounded by a swarm of pissed of turks...

anyway heres the good bit... the iraqi half was the best border ive ever crossed through! free tea, leather chairs and a few questions...


http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-V5Ro-SlhNt...0/IMG_2597.JPG

Costs

Visa: FREE 10 day visa on arrival at the border
Carnet: NOT required
Total costs: NONE... all free

Northern Iraq is under semi autonomous Kurdish control, and the cities such as Dohuk are among the safest in the world... far safer than any western city... in fact their so safe their boaring...

Northern Iraq has been like no place i have ever visited before... i have never experienced kindness as i have here... the people are phenomenal. In restaurants, the owners refuse to take my money, if i want a banana or some fruit they wont let me pay, when i walk into a shop to grab a couple of bottles of water they just flat out refuse my money and say no its a present, today i tried to pay for a fresh orange juice but the owner said no you are a guest of iraq.. come and visit my family instead ... it is literally just continous

Danger is relative, it is true that Dohuk is 80 km from Moussel, one of the most dangerous cities in the world BUT... you cant accidently enter as there are military checkpoints absoloutly everywhere and they block of all entrances... i rode right past it twice on a 400 km ride deeper south.

the police and military are great... always smiling always saying welcome to kurdistan...


the only annoying thing about this place is that the army and police stop me every twenty minutes as they all want their mates to take photos of themselves with their arms around me next to the bike....

Sorry this is a super quick poorly written report, i dont have a lot of time on the net and its kebab time

I have a detailed report with some cool photos on my blog if your interested:

Middle East Overlander

middleeastoverlander.blogspot.com

PS ... atms dont work and you must bring US dollars ONLY dont expect to change anything else... everything here is super dooper cheap and your spending like one dollar per meal etc...

Thanks!

Andy

(a couple of taster photos :thumbup1:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Y_GmbMJurU...0/DSCF1781.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-LxFg1fw2Md...0/DSCF1750.jpg

Hi Andy:

Thanks for the great report, it sounds like a worthwhile place to visit.

Do you think the roads are generally in good enough condition that I could do a trip there on a Honda ST 1100 (a PanEuropean)? I am particularly interested in riding secondary roads, not primary highways (but, not 'off road', obviously).

Michael

Beware
 

Hey Andy,

Sound like your having a great time in beautiful Northern Iraq. It is beautiful and the people are some of the nicest you'll ever meet and you have headed to probably the best area of Iraq, the Northern Kurdish controlled area.

I've been and worked there, Kirkuk, Erbil, Mosul and pretty much everywhere else in Iraq as I'm a close protection operator and medic in the much frowned upon 'Private Security' sector working here since 2003. I'm currently working in Basra and will be home in 15 days!

But I'd like to remind fellow bikers and overlanders that as the Kurdish autonomous regions are the safest, the southern parts ARE NOT!! Kidnapping here is rife and generates lots of money, militia controlled areas are still abundant despite what the US says and corruption in the Police and Military is second only to Afghanistan. I get paid rather well to look after people here and have seen many things in my time. I would hate for a tourist to get him/herself into trouble in this part of the country..!

The requirement of permits for tourists to travel in the south are obligatory with foreign registered vehicles and having a British or US plated vehicle will set you up as a target immediatley. Please don't get me wrong and I don't want to pee in your soup but I would not recommend the south as a place to visit as of this moment, this place is still too dodgy and may be for some time to come. :thumbdown:

I love biking and travelling and having been here for over 7 years I can say this with confidence that when this place does get to be safer, it will be one of my touring places on a bike as there is soo much to see, Temple of UR, Hanging Gardens of Babylon, Garden of Eden, Crossed Swords of Baghdad (see me in pic) etc, etc...:thumbup1:

If anyone has any questions about this area then please feel free to ask, if I can't answer then I can pass you onto someone that probably can!

Be safe..!

p.s, my signature at the bottom.... doesn't apply to here cos that'd would just be stupid!

We are looking at crossing Iraq into Jordan rather than risk Syria. Do you think this is safe. Quite happy to take the plates off the car and travel through.

So the big questions are...
Visa at border ?
Travel South to Jordan following the border ?
UK Car, UK passorts.
Possible of not?
Safe or not?
Stop off's in Iraq on the alleged 10 day Visa ?

Comments extremely welcome. Personal opinion welcome !

Thanks

Im out of contact till Saturday Evening. No web access.

Thanks Andy and Geoff, interesting posts.

Great blog Andy - have added Iraq to my list!

Noted Geoff - will try and take a better map with me and steer well clear of any trouble- my ability to end up in the wrong country might not be so amusing out there!

Syria
 

Niel,

Syria has got a lot of press lately, in-fighting with the government and it's people.
Iraq (Southern) is famous for anti-western militias and there is still a lot of resentment amongst it's security forces and the corruption is everywhere. Cops get paid $400 per month and to tip off a local criminal gang for a kidnapping is worth a couple of thousand to them in one cell phone call!!

yeah, you can get a visa on the border but look at google maps (map, middle east - Google Maps) as there are not roads, (not main ones) that follow the border. You'll mainly run into Iraqi or Syrian border patrols and there's a lot of unmarked desert (see pic!) out there so even following the borders is difficult. "Your in Syria!" ..."No I'm Not..!" "YES YOU ARE.... GRRR!" and so forth! I was out there in 2009/10 looking after the US Geological society and ran into the border patrols, they even tried to convince us we were in the wrong country, when the patrol leader checked our map he was looking at it UPSIDE DOWN with lots of thoughtfull Umm and Ahhs. We were also armed to the teeth so they let us keep going on our merry way.

My advice, stick to Syria... their in-fighting is what it is, in-fighting between the government and it's people, not the tourists etc, their infastructure is better and with any luck they'll just leave you alone to get on with your journey. I wouldn't shout 'Big Up the President..!' or 'Down with the People!' either..! LOL!!

Ha, the link to the 'middle east' map just showed me the 'East Midlands' instead!

hı
 

Thanks Henry for readıng the blog :D

So ı was goıng to add to the good advıce from geoff
I dont actually thınk ıts possıble to get ınto the southern part of ıraq... and ı of course agree that no one should go! You would need a dıfferent vısa for the south an arab-ıraqı vısa and ı am pretty sure (from what ı have researched and heard) that these are near enough ımpossıble for tourısts

as for fındıng yourself there accıdently.... ıts pretty much an ımpossıbılıty unless your a serıous off roader... there are border patrols and checkpoınts lıterally everywhere and these checkpoınts stop entry ınto the south.

As for navıgatıon... ı dıdnt have a map for ıraq (or gps) and ı got around just fıne, just have to read the sıgns... well sıgnposted ın englısh and arabıc... although sometımes theres just arabıc but ı just pulled over and asked someone! travelled from Zakho to Dohuk, al amadıyah and then all the way to the capıtal Irbıl (around 3 hours from Dohuk)....also left my bıke ın a hotel and hıtchıked quıte long dıstances ... felt extremely safe even old people ın cars were stoppıng to pıck me up... on the bıke ıts a pıece of pıss!

To neıl.bırd - lıke ı prevıously saıd... ı thınk ıts an ımpossıbılıty for you to go southwards ın ıraq so thats not an optıon for you.... even ıf ıt was... do not under any cırcumstances!
The ten day vısa ıs ONLY applıcable for the semı-autonomous northern part of ıraq under Kurdısh control....
I also wouldnt advıse takıng your plates off as every 20 mınutes you wıll be stopped and your papers and passport wıll be checked and you wıll have to have a photo wıth the guy checkıng them and then another one wıth hıs mates :p

personal opınıon for what ıts worth.... ı was very tempted to rıde solo through syrıa. ı got rıght onto the border and at the last moment changed my mınd... but thats because ı wanted to tour syrıa not rıde straıght through... (ıve travelled through syrıa for 7 months before so wasnt a massıve downer for me) anyway to jordan the maın hıghway passes through homms and hama the two worst affected areas... for the best and most up-to-date ınformatıon on travellıng ın syrıa go to the lonely planet thorn tree forum as there are people there now and wrıtıng about ıt! BUT dont forget that those dudes have eıther flown strıaght to damascus whıch ıs safe or aleppo whıch ıs safe and have warned others NOT to travel outsıde those two major cıtıes

Your call dude

Hope that ramble helps

Andy

hmm, Iraq, who'd have thought? Thanks for the interesting and thought provoking post.

Neil

Andy,
Hope very soon you will be aware of the mistakes you are doing and be back to Turkey in 1 piece or without being kidnapped.Don't forget the Turkish hospitality and support you got here..
You know our club well and we always give travellers the right advices.
SAFETY FIRST.
2up2far
We highly recommend everybody to keep away from Syria and Iraq.

Wish you all the best.
mehmet zeki...

Hı
 

Hı Zekı

Whılst I agree that Syrıa ıs currently a pretty dangerous place to travel, ı do have to completely dısagree wıth your opınıon on Kurdısh controlled Northern Iraq.
Agaın - I am specıfıcally talkıng about the North of Iraq whıch ıs Not under Arab control but under Kurdısh... ıts pretty much a seperate entıty! although polıtıcally ıts semı-autonomous... to travel to the south ıs pretty much an ımpossıbılıty and danger of endıng up there accıdently ıs extremely unlıkely as ıts all blocked off by armed checkpoınts wıth passport control.

I am back ın Turkey now after spendıng one week of travel there and I have to say ıt truly was the hıghlıght of my trıp. I have been travellıng solo at 23 years old from the UK to Iraq for nearly 4 months and whılst dealıng wıth problems ın pretty much every country ı have never felt safer and more welcomed than when ı was ın Iraq.

I met an Amerıcan guy there and we travelled together for a whıle and he had been backpackıng for 4 years now... all over the world and hıs opınıon was the same as mıne... he had never felt safer and we both remarked how we lıterally felt lıke we could sleep on the street ın the mıddle of the cıty and have no problems what so ever. - ın fact ı dont thınk the kurds would have let us ... gıve ıt two mınutes and someone would have bought us lunch and tea and we would have been ın someones house eatıng dınner wıth the famıly... ı would put bıg bucks on ıt!

Its a shame to hear you advısıng others not to vısıt, as that sort of stereotypıcal fear ınvolved wıth the word 'ıraq' wıll cause many adventurer's to mıss out on one of the mıddle easts most; safest, frıendlıest, cheapest, easy to access and pretty much 'undıscovered' pearls.

As for realısıng my 'mıstake' ... If you had ever been there you would laugh at that sentence

Take care all

Thank you for your post, there is too much 'hype' out there.
By the way, Egypt is 'still the same as it ever was' ,
Cheers

Thanks for these info, Andy, they are a treasure to me!

I and my girl are planning to cross northern part of Iraq in summer 2012 on our way to Iran, and yours is a thread I'll save into the "favourite" of my browser to recover it quickly when needed.

Greetings from Italy. bier

Thanks for the great post! Is it possible to get to Iran via northern Iraq? At least googlemaps shows a road from Rayat to Iran.

http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...rak-info-53793
(see the sentences just on top of the last picture :D)

Thanks for opening my eyes to the prospect of travel in the north of Iraq, I wanted to see Baghdad, but I guess that is out of the question, but I will certainly try for the north via Turkey next year :)

Cheers
TravellingStrom

THis might be a stupid question but when people talk about southern vs. northern Iraq...what is the deliniation? how far south is considered "southern iraq?" is it roughly 1/2 and 1/2....is baghdad the "midpoint?"

thanks!

Hi
 

I thought I would write a more detailed trip report on Iraq seeing as though there's a few of you dudes going! Hope it helps,

So first off in reply to questions

Jpyrek - it's not half half but barely a third, take. Look at the map of Iraq on google maps and draw an imaginary line from the west of Musul from the Syrian border and draw that line Over the top of Musul and then Under Irbil and then continue to the eastern border... That's the north! Musul is Not included!

Pan European - the roads.... Well yeah they are certainly doable, it's just every so often you suddenly ride over that scratched road surface which can make your front tire wobble, also some of them are pretty battered due to heavy military movement, finally there's a lot of road works going on from ukranian companies and so you will have to do a few little stretches of off roaring.... But certainly you will be fine on your bike.... If you came through turkey you will be prepared!

So visiting Iraq... I wouldn't bother going if your hoping for beautiful scenery as you will find more of that in turkey... Also there is no point if your going for bragging rights like 'dude I just totally went there' as it certainly is not dangerous and exciting in that sense.... Despite the worries that your family will push upon you when you reveal your plans!
I would only go if your interested in experiencing Kurdish culture, customs and to experience their unique level of hospitality... And their love for over landing motorcyclists!

that said and done
The tukish border.... I would tackle VERY early or VERY late as it gets busy and the Turks push... On the Turkish half... Obviously ride straight past the three miles of turcks, and even when exiting the Kurdish half always ride to the front of the que as you will be there for hours
The Kurdish half is very easy, there's a few photocopies and stuff but you won't hand over any money at all and someone will help you all the way...
You will get stopped by loads of soldier dudes.... But all they say is welcome to Kurdistan... A tipnis when in turkey... Do not call it Kurdistan but north Iraq. When in north Iraq call it kurdistan


Take USD as they are king, take plenty of it too, don't worry about getting Iraqi Dina IQD before you enter just USD... You can pay for anything with USD, taxi, petrol, fruit, whatever no matter how small and they will give you the change in IQD. I stopped checking the exchange rate after 20 times as I realized how honest they were. Money changers are everywhere or there are banks. Banks tend not to accept or deal with anything other than USD or IQD... There is an ATM in Erbil in the sheriton but I was told it wagon off and the one ATM I did find didn't accept foreign cards... Go prepared with USD

Petrol....
In GBP -
England = 15
turkey = 18
Iraq = 3

So, there are three main cities, Zakho, Dohuk and Erbil.

Zakho is right near the border and an easy place to hang out, tiny city and easy to navigate. It's a good place to sleep if youv just arrived in Iraq and want o get your bearings and also if your leaving early, sleep there and then d the border at first light. If you visit Zakho, ride into the centre and you will reach the main roundabout, on this roundabout there is a shop front in the shape of a huge green apple, you can't miss it! I think it's called the apple bar. If you have just arrived definitely go there. The owners name is Sarbast and he speaks pretty much perfect English and is super helpful! His apple bar sells fresh fruit juice, I had a lot and he wouldn't let me pay, he also put my bike in his front drive way for the night which is gated and locked, so that i could stay in a cheap hotel and not worry about the bike. He took me for a drive around the city at night too. He can help with most things and is a really nice dude

Dohuk is my favorite, bigger than Zakho and smaller than Erbil. Nothing to do there specifically but the people are very cool. There is a hotel called zozik easy to find down the main street, the manager speaks English and let's you wheel your bike into the hotel reception, 20 USD a night include breakfast. Dohuk the bazar is interesting to see, I'd recommend the shisha smoking cafe, just sit in one or a tea shop for two minutes and someone will come and speak to you in English, one of three types of people, either they have studied English, they have lived in an English speaking country or they worked for the us army as a soldier, security, special forces dude or if they're young then they were an interpreter.
From Dohuk you can do excursions to al amidayah which is a village onto of a mountain and a nice ride

Erbil... A big city, people are busy and have that big city mentality.... There's a citadel there but nothing interesting.... Not really much point in visiting. But if you do then you have to go past Musul, and for the love of god don't end up there. There's checkpoints blocking it off so don't worry.... You will ride in close proximity though.... It's about a three hour ride.... Be prepared for countless military stops.... Super friendly soldiers, police that all want photos and close to Erbil you can sometimes get nasty sandstorms.... A tip.... When asked which team you support in kurdistan say Barcelona!

Leaving.... Kurdish side is pretty straight forward... I think you need a ticket which costs 25 dollars, a yellow piece of paper, I saw every vehicle buying one.... But I managed to get through without one, (I'll explain how in the blog)...As I pulled in, two huge helicopters were getting ready to take off, with all the guns attached... Have never seen that at a border before... I think it was yank as they were wearing aviator shades! The turkish side is a pain in the arse!

About half an hour checking through my gear, another half an hour as they wanted identification and the narcotics officer was adamant that there is another form of ID OTHER than my passport... Despite me telling him continuously there isn't.... Then an hours interrogation in a booth with a million questions....

Bang! You just visited northern Iraq!

I have a ton of photos and more details on the stories, people and experiences in Iraq if anyone is interested.... Or bored
Www.middleeastoverlander.blogspot.com

Andy

1/3! Hardly, that "north" is like 10% of the country (and that is generous!)

That is such a shame...might as well just say Kurdistan...aaaaaaand then the rest of Iraq.

There is so much cool stuff to see in Iraq and it is a shame that the situation is what it is right now. Glad to see you went though...and hopefully I'll be able to as well.

Ideally I think it would be neat to go from Turkey into Iraq...bypass Mosul and then do some secondary roads into Jordan. Probably completely assinine, but we can dream.

Thanks Tarzan for the detailed write up, very interesting reading.

Well, OK, bragging rights is probably my main goal ( ;) ) but also I am thinking maybe to go into Iran from North Iraq on my way east, it should be doable if I can find some info on the eastern border crossing.

I like the idea of meeeting friendly locals, do you recall any pubs in the area or is it an alchohol free state?

I will check out your blog right now for further info :)

Cheers
TS

Thanks for these precious info, Andy, you're much better than the best of the paper guide books!

Hih
 

Hey guys, glad you found it interesting Nd helpful!
I will st up the next more detailed bit on the blog probably tomorrow

Take it easy

Andy

when i was there in mid sept. , i got as far as shoman around 30kms from the iranian border, i was told by the military not to travel any closer to the border as it wasn,t safe.
I wasn,t asked for any money on the way through the kurd./ turkish border.
I also found the kurdish people to be very welcoming and generous not only in kurd. iraq , but also in south eastern turkey, i was overcharged at one fuel station in Dohuk ,by around 50% though.
There are some really beautiful mountains in the eastern part of the country,but accomadation is not that easy to find ,away from the towns and cities.
Please don,t travel there expecting everyone to buy you lunch and welcome you like a long lost brother, you may be disappointed........

I went through Kurdish Iraq this Summer, crossing the region, coming from Iran and continuing into Turkey.
I had been in contanct with Jake from the US, who went there earlier this year with his brother and who gave me valuable tips. Like him, I took a smaller road in the north. Roads were sealed all the way, sometimes a little bumby, but all in all I was suprised how good the roads were.

My route on Google Maps:
Iraq - Google Maps

The security situation seemed stable :scooter:, but I think these thinks can be deceiving. In August and there were Turkish air strikes and artillery in Kurdish Iraq and PKK bombings in Turkish towns. Just a couple of weeks ago there was another escalation of the conflict, when Turkey attacked up to 100 km inside Iraq. BBC News - Turkey steps up offensive in Iraq after Kurdish raids

The landsscape was fantastic, people were incredibly friendly, but this is also the case in the Kurdish regions in Iran and Turkey. I wouldn't say Kurdish Iraq is a must see, but I would definitely recommend visiting the Kurdish people and region somewhere.

Regarding the border crossings:

Iran into Turkey at Zakho/Silopi went relatively smooth. I had to visit a few offices on the Kurdish side, but people were always friendly and helpful. No costs etc. The Turks very superficially searched my bags, i.e. opened them and took out one or too things. There was a very long line, but I was allowed to ride by on my bike. Immigration and customs went smoothly, they do it in little booths next to the vehicle.

Iran into Kurdish Iraq at Piranshar/Rawandiz: Very easy on the Iranian side. Very friendly, all done in five minutes. The Kuds didn't really know what to do with me and I had to get various stamps, but everybody was incredibly friendly, maybe the friendliest border crossing I've had. I didn't use my carnet and was given a sheet that I then had to show again when I exited into Turkey. No costs. No visa required for me (German), and I think all EU citizens (?). You get 10 days.

I will post GPS tracks and some maps later today.

Cheers,
Julian

Here's the tracks and two maps I took pictures of.


http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/2...g0723gp.th.jpg

http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/1...g0748xv.th.jpg

It is no heaven
 

Iraq is two parts: South and North. South is Arab, North is Kurdish. Even there is a Shiita part (good relations with Iran).

It is not heaven anywhere.

It is not about being Turkish, Arab or Kurdish.

Kurdish people are more emotional. How you behave them, they reply same to you. They used to live in villages and countryside. But we can't say they are less civilisized. We can say they can fight well and some can be rude. Definitley they like foreigners.

I don't wan't to have stereotype about people and nations, only try to explain what I know.

I have many Kurdish friends, many very good, some normal, some bad. Same like all of us. My good Kurdish friends are very good people indeed. Similar to Germans, if you have a good German friend, he/she is your good friend forever. Just like Kurdish people. One point: they never forget! Good or bad.

They can be poor but they are generous.

About country, haven't been to Iraq yet, planning to give a visit. I know it is not dangereous in Erbil and Sulaimania. But not everywehere. Extra attention is needed in most parts as still many bombs burst in the streets.

Im writting from Iraq!
 

So Guys and Gals, I am here in the heart of Kurdistan and I came on the Hubb just to tell you, you have to come here and visit. The hotels arent that cheap (in fact last night I got two rooms, a kitchen, a bathroom and a living room (too much rooms) for $40. I left my bike outside with luggage just locked to the bike which could easily be cut off.

As a single female travelling alone, I feel super safe and would even camp on my own. Trust the people they love and respect everyone.

The only pain is the the police check points - but they are really nothing!
Danielle

Goodonya danielle, way to go, watch out for scuds!

Crap, why didn't I go there?
I just passed there, Turkey and Iran. I was thinking about it (visiting the Kurdish region) but we didn't do it. Next time I'm in the area for visiting Syria and Jordan for example, I will definetely go there.

A good read , before you visit kurd iraq , is" Road through Kurdistan", by A. M. hamilton.

This book was my main reason for travelling there, you cannot imagine my surprise when i was befriended by the mayor of rawanduz ,who,s gt. grandfather helped hamilton in the construction of the" hamilton highway".

He had recently played host to hamiltons grandaughter and her 2 sons.

I tip my hat, and wish anyone else brave enough good luck, its not quite safe enough for me thats for sure!!

http://captaingrooviss.co.uk/images/Mdoomed.jpg

all the neigh-sayers, doomed, doomed I tell you.

I'm investigating nipping into N. Iraq next summer. :-)

Great trip report, Tarzan!

I've been to the "Republic of Iraq - Kurdistan Region" (so says the passport stamp) in 2008 and contrary to some armchair travelers in this thread, I can confirm it's a very interesting and relatively safe destination.

The most dangerous part for me was in Turkey from Van via Hakkari and Cizre to the Turkish/Iraqi border at Silopi. That Turkish road was like a warzone with fighter jets, combat helicopters, many heavily fortified military checkpoints and VERY nervous Turkish draft soldiers.

This came as a surprise to me, since there are no accurate reports in the mainstream media and even most of my Turkish friends themselves do not know the full truth about that corner of their country.

Of course they don't know, because the average Turk would never put his foot into the "hot" Kurdish areas - and just reiterate the official propaganda (as visible on this thread).

A sidenote: I had two aggressive moments with young Kurds, based on religious arguments. They were a lot more islamic fundamentalist than I expected. The usual portrait is that they are secular compared to the other groups in the area - not true IMHO.

It's my understanding that some Chinese massage shops and Christian liquor shops have been torched to ashes early December in Zakho by a screaming crowd , in the north of Kurdistan, after a local religious guide blamed them as anti-islamic during a sermon (Iraq: Muslims Attack and Torch Christian Businesses After Friday Prayers - YouTube)

I'm sorry for this, I have some options for my 2012 summer holiday ride and Iraqi Kurdistan in addition to Iran is one of them. :frown:

Hi Travelbug,
Both the BBC world news and Al Jazeera, to name two, have carried coverage of the Turkish/Kurd conflict, over quite a few years. The journalists are not always there so I guess it is not continuous reporting, but there is little doubt that the conflict continues.

As a side comment, Turkey is the fascinating country because of its' international borders and the current relations between those countries and their relations with Turkey itself - Syria, Iraq, Iran, Armenia, Georgia etc etc

FWIW, my limited experience indicates that peoples are tribal first and foremost, religious next, and they may have affiliation with their country, thirdly.
The tribal issue can be very complex with sub-affiliations and loyalties; hence those with a western-society upbringing have difficulty to comprehend some aspects such as the intensity of feeling; as for religion, I'm not going down that route!!

Actually, isn't this why we all travel??

Hi Dave,

yes, indeed, I guess one of the main motivations for HUBB style travel, and certainly my own motivation, is to get a first hand view, without distortions by the media.

IMHO, there are three distortions or common misconceptions in regards to 'Kurdistan':

a) "All of Iraq is a dangerzone" => NOT TRUE

North Iraq is a pretty safe place in regards to crime, terror or even war activity.

b) "East Turkey (in particular post-Öcalan) is a relatively safe place with only occasional 'police vs. terrorist activity' and without visible effect on travelers" => NOT TRUE

The Hakkari area is a real dangerzone or warzone, however you want to call it. There is heavy military presence (not only police). It is nerve wrecking for the inhabitants, the military, and the traveler.

c) The Kurds' agenda is primarily 'freedom-oriented', 'nationalist' and 'secular' whereas religion is less important to them. => NOT TRUE

Islam is as important to them as it is to Iraqi Shiites/Sunnis or Persian Shiites - and probably more important than to the majority of Turks (this may have economic reasons as well).

In all three cases, the Western media distribute a distorted picture to serve an agenda. AKA propaganda.

BTW, a similar media spin is played against Iran, Chechnya, Belorus, North Sudan, and even North Korea. Not such hellholes as we are made to believe.

I spent time in Istanbul and I speak the Turkish language quite fluently. I've been to every war zone on the planet. I respect difference in qualified opinions, but not from the posters (two or three on this thread) that have not been in those areas themselves.

Thanks for the considered input Travebug.

I haven't been to "Kurdistan" but I have some understanding of the fundamentals from reading between the lines of the media, based on some experience of what governments are prepared to do on behalf of their own citizens + some time spent in a few areas of conflict spanning about 16 years; these years of background have confirmed my own views about what drives the various conflicts, but I am always looking for an exception, if only to prove the rule!