which landrover to avoid?
 

am more a japanese fan but it seems there is a better and cheaper choice of Landrovers in South Africa. I know there are some models to avoid but dont remember which one. Was it the 2.5 Td5 or the 300 Tdi or ?

Both 300TDI and TD5 are fine. 300TDI is generally regarded as the safest option as its a really good engine without any electronic engine management. TD5 was the next generation engine and the first to have the electronic management but there are a lot of people that have used them successfully on long range expeditions including trans africa and they don't seem to be getting much in the way of negative publicity. The only real downside to the 300TDI is that, whilst you can still order a new one directly from landrover with the 300TDI engine, in terms of general sales, they were phased out in the late 90s which means most options have been around for a while now. The TD5 being newer means that there are later models available with less use. Having said that, I've got a 300TDI 110 from 1994 and its fine, its just a reality that most of those options will be in older trucks and depends what you are looking for.

There are other options in SA such as the 2.8 petrol which don't enjoy a great reputation as seen as thirsty and not that poweful.

Thanks Toby2!
No TD5 for me than. Last year we bought a Ford F250 Powerstroke here in Brazil (from a british traveller), full of electronics too. Nice car. When it all worked. Well to cut a long story short,in 20.000 km I know about all workshops now in southern america, more then in the 500.000 km with a Landcruiser and XT500 togehter. Glad we managed to sell it...

Are gearboxes a bit of a weak point of Landrovers as i have heard of many travellers who had to repair them on the way, even with newer vehicles. Or has it more to do with mistreating them, not the right oil, not enough. Or does one has to change gearoil more often or any other advise;

Hi

If you have had a Landcruiser why would you be considering the back-ward step to Landrover...?
I am just curious...

Travel well
Graham

One has to experience as much as possible in life....

We sold the LC(here in Brazil) and we want to travel in southern africa. Lots of Landrovers over there. Cheaper too than the Toyotas and as it is only for 3 months...
But I must admit too I do not like the newer cruisers that much, too sophisticated for my taste. The design of a Landrover is unbeatable, but that is my opinion and that is just the outside....

which landrover to avoid?
All of them, run past them quick, Landrover are to the 4x4 world what Harley are to the bike world.
Stick with your Toyota mate, worth the extra money !

In South Africa, the Land rovers have been superceded now by all of the new light 4 x 4s. I'd consider Isuzu, Nissan and Toyota 4x 4 pick ups or twin -cabs long before considering a Land Rover.

My cousin has an Isuzu, and off road trailer and has been all over the place with it.

Good luck
Graham

PS I agree that the new Cruisers are too sophisticated... but they are Toyota electronics, and will still be more reliable than an old simple landRover.

but you all forget the feeling you will have when you sit in a landrover!
it's daktari feeling:D

you won't have it, when you drive a rice-cooker.:funmeterno:

this is the old, very old question between lr and toyo. you can't clear it. only by yourself.:mchappy:

No, it's not the Daktari feeling at all, it's the feeling of relief that if you are smart enough to be driving a Toyota you won't be spending half your trip hunting for workshops!
Now, more than ever, is not the time to purchase a vehicle which may not be in production within 12 months!!
Forget the Daktari feeling - get real - think with your head!

It makes me laugh ......
 

It really does make me laugh this argument.......

I am sure that there must be examples of Land Rovers faililng, but I have read HUNDREDS of overland websites and not come across one.

Go to the link below and see that, surprise surprise, Toyotas break down catastophically too! And even more ironically, spare parts for the Toyota weren't available and it has to be shipped back to the UK, whilst they continue the rest of their trip in a hire car.

End of the trip

Now to be fair to Graham they have had a great trip, and written some nice stuff, but he was also a huge advocate of Toyatos and wrote several emails explaining why you shouldn't take a land rover. I think he is now of a different opinion, but I believe he reads the HUBB and so will most probably answer for himself.

I think all I am trying to say is anything you drive could break down, but remember, it's not all about just getting from A-B but it's about the adventure, well certainly it is for me.

Long Live Romance!

PS Well done Graham and family for their great trip, and for inspiring others with their great blog and photos! Good luck for the rest of the trip :)

first: i haven't have so much repairs on my 110 HT diesel and my 300tdi during my trips.:thumbup1: (my sIII was different)

second: i have seen toyotas break down:oops2:

third: i'm thinking with my head, but more i try to feel with my heart!:D

On some yes. Discos and Defender 200Tdi and early 300Tdi have a problem with the input gear of the transfer box. It doesn't get lubricated enough, and the input shaft and gear wear, in the end causing you to loose all drive.

Newer models have the input gear cross drilled so oil can get in and the problem doesn't occur.

Pieter

Pieter, do you know till what year the 300Tdi´s suffered this problem?

The thing that makes me laugh is that every overlanding style trip report I read in the LR mags seems to feature at least one trip report.

Also, pretty well every LC owner I know who regularly does trips to N. Africa and beyond, started using LRs, but upgraded to an LC due to LR reliability problems and have never looked back. And despite comments on this board, they have

And yes, LCs can break down, but that is more often down to poor initial servicing or abuse, as opposed to due to inherent weaknesses.

As for finding a vehicle, get in touch with B A I L L I E ' S O F F R O A D & S A F A R I S - Chris C and others have highly recommended them - they may be able to put you in touch with someone selling an LC.

LR vs LC
 

Perhaps the LR Vs LC debate should be taken off to a differnet thread? It would seem that Mr Marker is after some serious advice here .... and it would seem that he is aware of the reliability record of a LC over a LR ....

Of course Ollie, you are right.

Interestingly I followed Graham's problems from the outset - he was very unlucky.

It seems it all stems from a leak in his power steering system - the pump overheated and seized, killing some timing gears which was then 'fixed' badly with the engine not being flushed properly and then cr*p getting into the oil system killing a big end bearing.

It's a shame he didn't spot the initial problems with the power steering pump, it's scary how quickly these things can escalate.

I don't know why?
 

My LR has been very reliable but there is always something going on that needs sorting, a little niggle here and a little niggle there, most of these niggles are as a result of my constant tinkering and at times it can really upset me, I sometimes threaten to get rid of it and buy a Jap but always, always! come to my senses.

There is something special about owning a LR, it can't be found anywhere else and it comes from the person that built it, the builders moods and attitudes are passed down to the vehicles and you just have to hope that you find one that was built with the right attitude otherwise its going to give you hell for as long as you own it!

Back to the thread, If youre looking in SA, have you considered a Nissan Hardbody? I would take one of these over a Toyota anyday.

Pete, any particular reason why you would choose a Hardbody?
Gil

Sorry, no. I had a Disco 300Tdi and wanted to find out, but got conflicting info.

Ended up taking off the PTO cover plate on the transfer box and having a look.

Have a look here: Ashcroft Transmissions
(handy people to know about anyway, in case you need a new gear box :-)

Hi,
this is turning out to be a lot of attention for a quick three month trip.

The LR bashers are all ranting from the principle that we're talking about a car that comes from Solihull (just the name depresses me)

But in fact the query is about a LR built in SA; which means assembled in a BMW factory if I'm not mistaken.
Suddenly build quality takes on another meaning.

Does anyone actually know how much of the "Solihull rubbish" (which I presume refers to the electric and other niggly stuff) is re-used in the SA built cars? Or do they source their electronics elsewhere?

I lived 6 years in and around SA and I can't remember anywhere you couldn't get in a rear wheel drive with decent ground clearance; unless you really went looking to get stuck...

What about a combi? The SA built rear engine T3 are really fantastic and surprisingly capable, with a bit more living space. You could also ship it back at the end of the trip. The T3 campers still fetch amazing money, and a rust free SA built one would be snapped up rapidly.
Whatever.
Have a good trip (even if it's too short to enjoy everything SA has to offer)
Luke

Hi all

The old LC v LR debate again.......always fires people up! FWIW I am culturally and temperamentally more of a LR person than a LC one, but when I did my trip I wanted to be sure something would happen every time I pushed a pedal or turned a key in foreign parts. But for some people emotion plays a bigger part and, provided you have access to the necessary support, the lesser reliability of LRs may be outweighed by the greater character. Just a shame LRs don't have that lovely 6 cylinder diesel engine that LCs have!

Mark

overlandcruiser.net

The bit I never understand is that people always talk about LRs havng character, but not LCs - although this mainly seems to come from LR fans.

What is it that give the LRs character?

Personally I think that LCs have bags of character.

Strange thing
 

I think it must be something that some people feel, and others don't. But essentially when I jump in a toyota it feels like jumping in a car, whereas jumping in a Defender feels like you are jumping in an adventure.
Perhaps I haven't driven the right Toyota?

Wouldn't swap my old landie - can't say it's ever broken down on me, though I do have to fix a few niggly bits from time to time and just keep on top of maintenance.

For me overlanding and owning a 4x4 are a combined hobby, and I'd be pretty bored pretty quickly if I never had to do any work on the 90 as unfortunately trips only come up rarely.

Back to the original question - 300 or TD5 - probably 300TDi for me if it's going to be kept standard. I'd have a TD5 though if there was scope to upgrade the ECU, drop a bigger I/C in and have a Twisted Performance exhaust on - makes em sound like a 1980's Audio Quatro :biggrin:

I guess there is always the excitement of - will we make it or not :-)

I don't think there is any right or wrong Toyota, it's more down to how you connect with it. I thnk my 80 has bags of character and is definitely not like jumping into a car. It's things like reassuring sturdiness and reliability, that are part of it's character as well as the surge you get from that big turboed six cylinder.

Whilst my children fell instantly in love with a friends topless series one LR because of it's quirky looks they go into hysterics when ever I mention that I'll be getting a 100 series LC next year because they love the 80 and the way it faultlessly took us around Morocco, has taken them through the snow to school and on various play days I've organised for ELCO.

I guess it's down to the individual, but I find it worrying that LR owners always seem to fall back on the LRs having more character than LCs as if that is the only reason they can justify for going for a LR - if that's the case it's their loss.:cool4:

I do believe that LRs are better off-road than LCs......as I didn't (and don't) have the expertise to use this superior ability, I didn't see the point in going for a LR. And in any case, the further away you are from 'civilisation' the less likely you are to do anything that's going to risk breaking something or getting stuck.

Were I buying a vehicle to go greenlaning in the UK, for eg, it might have been a different matter.

[/quote] I find it worrying that LR owners always seem to fall back on the LRs having more character than LCs as if that is the only reason they can justify for going for a LR - if that's the case it's their loss.:cool4:[/quote]


You'll probably find that most LR owners don't really care too much to justify beyond that - they're an enthusiasts 4x4 and do what they do very well - buuuut -

If you want more reasons than character though, come green laning with me in Shropshire and Wales and draw your own conclusions.
Then perhaps the next day I could take my canvas off and have half a ton of gravel dropped in the back by a JCB at the garden centre (did that in the summer), doesn't matter if it gets dirty 'cos I can hose it out.
Then the next day I could fit a 8 seater dining table and chairs in it (did that yesterday!) .
Then the same motor can be taking me to the Libyan desert, pulling big lardy toyotas out of the dunes.
I can also cook pasties and croque monsieur on the engine, use my front bumper like an anvil, open beer bottles with my doors, and if I bend a panel I can hit it back out with the bottom of a shoe. On top of all that, the more battered it gets the cooler it looks, it's worth more now than when I bought it six years ago, is 22 years old and will still be around in another 22.

I've got more if you want me to go on :thumbup:

OK, maybe you can't do that with an 80, but no problem with a rag topped 70 series which would be the equivalent of your old truck.:thumbup1:

Opinions...
 

First back to the original part of the thread:

LR's in SA are generally overpriced, overworked sheds, unless you are willing to pay a fortune.

Toyota's - 60's, 70's, 80's and 100's can be found but not in huge numbers, but often better looked after. Hilux's aplenty and definitely underestimated!

Nissan Patrols and Navara's, (D22's - old shaped) also seem to abound.

Choice's, (IMHO):
Toyota
Nissan
Land Rover

but do not ignore the other options - Isuzu etc.

If interested try www.bailliesoffroad.co.za

speak o Stuart, or his wife Cath, what he doesn't know or can't/hasn't done to a Toyota (or a Landie for that matter), is worth knowing about.
The vehicle - 80 series, fully prepped - I purchased from him was envied by many, and I had people fighting over it when it came time for me to sell.

If in doubt about LC over LR, check out the Poland rover website, the owner a member here, spent a veritable fortune in time, love and money on his Disco, but the lack of reliability turned to to the light and he now drives an 80 - infact I believe he is inor on his way to the Gilf as I type this.

Also look at how many of the companies that run trips out to the Sahara and North/west Africa run Toyotas - mainly 80's. And nearly all I am sure started out as 'LR people'.

Keep on Cruisin'

Gil

Just my preference, you see I grew up with Nissans, Datsuns as they were called when my Dad got his first one. He used to run his own motor mech workshop and the Nissans were always the work horses, we used everything from 1400 bakkies right up to the Kingcab/double cab bakkies and never had any problems or break downs.

They are as reliable as Toyotas and in my opinion are also better looking vehicles and for the original poster who only wants it for 3 months, there is probably more choice and better value too. It all comes down to personal choice at the end of the day, the thing that grates my carrot is people that have done overland trips etc(have the T-shirt) and think that they know everything about vehicles because of one (or a few) trips in a certain vehicle and then go about imposing their opinions on other folk.

The other thing that I don't think is right is when someone comes onto this site looking for vehicle advice and that person is bombarded (generally) with posts which are openly and unashamedly biased to Toyotas and this is reflected in most of the relevant posts in the 4x4 section, this is after all a neutral forum? This is ALWAYS going to be a heated debate/discussion.

My views on LR? These cars and there after market parts are easily available and easily tinkered with, and lets be honest, some people have no business tinkering with vehicles, I mean that in a good way. This is probably why there are more failures, because most LR's have been thrashed to within an inch of there lives in every conceivable way then sold on to some poor bloke with a dream of overlanding and what does he buy? Problems, he buys problems and when things go pair shaped he then hops on to a forum like this and states that LR's are the worst vehicle ever built etc etc.

Peter

i could never find out either & from a mate who used to work in a specialist there isnt seem to be any rule except most post 96 were ok.
if they have the fault its a full gearbox rebuild to sort as the input shaft for the T-box is the output shaft from the mainbox.

the landy engine to avoid is the older turbo diesel. its basicly the NA diesel with a turbo strapped on, cooling is best called marginal. they are ok when looked after but if used then they crack pistons for fun.

Yes I know it is too short, but it is not exactly the first time I go to Africa, it is more a ´see again´ of some places and people after many years, although I have never been to Angola as that wasn´t possible in ´my time´ (1982 -2000)

Indeed I have been thinking of a Combi as well, but Moremi and Chobe will be too much fun for me with a Combi I am afraid (unless the ´roads´ were improved). And what I found on the internet they seem overpriced to me as well.
A pickup is not what I am looking for, otherwise the Nissan Hardbody would be a good choice indeed.

See that there is a Toyota Condor 4x4 in RSA, at reasonable secondhand prices. Never heard of that car before. Anyone experience with it?

Landrover
 

Hey Ollie,

I travelled for a while in Namibia together with your car when it was still called Biggles, (or was it Giggles?:) and with another white LR, I believe it was called Kate. Me being a Toyo man I was amazed that almost every evening when we got to our destination, the LR guys had to open the hood and fumble around or dove under the cars. Leaking fuel tanks, leaking radiators, electrical shortcircuits etc, one of them even dropped a valve and they had to rebuild the engine completely (not your car!). I had a couple of broken leafspring (which where not original Toyota) during our trip of 60.000 km. Obviously Toyota´s break down as well but not as often. You still have to start your trip and i hope all goes well but be shure you master the mecanics of the LR because you´ll need it.

Cheers,
Noel
exploreafrica.web-log.nl

Absolutely amazing!
Here is a guy asking a genuine question about a LR and the LC people cannot leave him alone - get out of it! - **** off, just go to your own pissing little contest of a thread and leave the LR people alone to talk LRs - what is wrong with that!
By the way, Merry Christmas, what is left of it.

Yes
 

I agree! I even started another thread so people could go an do the p1ssing competition elsewhere ....

It is strange how they can't let it go.

And yes my LR may break down, but I don't care! That will be the fun. Please don't reply, because I know all the risks, and it just makes happy people miserable when you try and convince us life is terrible unless we do it your way!

PS Merry Christmas to all too :)

Hey Cornish, and the original poster,

Don't be too alarmed at the anti LR comments.

My Discovery I had 141,000 miles on the clock when I bought it in 2002, almost seven years later 220,000 miles, it's a '93, 200Tdi. Of course over that time it has been serviced regularly and had quite a lot of maintenance work done on it.
Up to 171,000 I had done little work on the car other than servicing, as we were now prepping the car for our first trip to Tunisia in 2004, so at this point the car is eleven years old.
I rebuilt all four of the axle ends, new bearings, seals, swivel bearings, discs, pads, etc.
I had the cam belt changed this would have been the third belt change I guess, this was when the new water pump was fitted. I had a re-con gear and transfer box fitted by Ashcroft's and bought five new tyres. Apart from a thorough check over by LR and changing all of the oils and filters, that was it.

My LR is not just a "school bus" it get's used. It has been to the desert in Tunisia three times, bounced around the dunes with all the others. Yes, it did let me down in the desert in Tunisia, the waterpump failed, it was only five months old. and since the water pump failed it has never let me down to the extent of needing to be recovered. Even with a failed pump I continued driving it for four more days, with the 300 the head would have warped due to the water pump being higher up on the block. Following this it had an overheating problem that was solved by renewing the radiator.

50,000 miles since the prep work was done the car is still running on the same parts, even down to the Britpart replacement water pump that I fitted outside the Novotel in Marsielle. AFAIK the engine, and all ancilleries are the originals, nothing has been replaced, other than those parts mentioned above, so I guess the engine had done 220,000 miles and still not had the head removed. Let's not forget that the car is now sixteen years old, yes it is suffering from rust, and lots of it, but mechanically it has been very, very reliable.

And finally, no, I do not spend every weekend tinkering.

Best of luck with the big trip BTW,

Kevin

Marker,
the Toyota Condor would be a good choice - they don't have much clearance but at least are available 4x4. Like a Subaru a lot of people would probably be surprised at where they can go. I have never driven one so I cannot really comment further, but a good few of the big Gold mines here in Ghana use them as lighter duty troop carrier alternatives, therefore it is a forgone conclusion that if miners drive them then they are pretty tough. I camped next to some guys from South Africa in one once and it struck me as a roomy, practical vehicle to camp and travel with. The rest Peter said very well, although I have to admit not being a big fan of South African built D22 Hardbodies, but that is only because they tend to fall apart very quickly with extremely heavy duty use - but that has nothing to do with overlanding or touring South Africa and anyway you indicated that a pickup is not your choice! My vote for Condor or VW combi.
Gil

The only Land Rover manufactured product I'd avoid would be the early Efi Range Rovers. Main problem is the engine ECU(mainly part number PRC9610E or PRC9601E can't quite remember) is obsolete and even the aftermarket repair bods were struggling to provide a suitable alternative.

Otherwise they're all worth using but nature of the beast is they are maintenance heavy but preventative maintenance and a morning check routine never goes amiss whether it's a solihull product or something from the land of the rising sun.

Dear Ollie,

Sorry that you picked it up this way. It wasn´t intended this way. Off course your LR will make it. Hell, you can even make it to Cape Town in a Citroen 2CV as the Belgian guys demonstrated. You just need different preparations depending on the vehicle! In a way I admire the LR drivers beause they stick to their ideals where as I sold out to "security". I think that is also a personality thing. All the LC drivers I know are sort of "control freaks" whereas the LR guys seem to be more of the "take it as it comes" type of people which is a very good thing when your travelling. I still think the LC is stronger than the LR but that does not say anything about the quality of your travels!!! I am sure you would not enjoy your trip as much in a LC as you will in your LR, because our heart is in it. All LR drivers seem to give their cars a name while you hardly ever see that with LC´s. A LR is a family member while the LC is only a vehicle.

Enjoy,

Noel

Ha ha
 

Hi Noel,

Thanks for that. I re-read my post and it looked a little like I was throwing my toys out of the pram, which wasn't what I intended. More that of course you should advice a land rover driver of the other options, but once they had taken note politely, let them carry on with their slightly crazy adventure.

I think you explained it correctly. Another way I had been thinking about it is the much talked about LRW guys. They, I think went the next step on - backup vehicles and fixers. You can take the guarantee of making it to whatever lengths you wish, and only you can know what you are happy with, and what would make a successful trip. For them it is having a team available to fix any problem. For the Toyota driver it is having a vehicle that will make it all the way (percentage wise).

Me and the wife have discussed what happens if Dino, our faithful but not necessarily reliable land rover breaks down for good. Well, we are just going to continue another way. No doubt about it. Whether by another car, train, bus, back packing etc. To us the adventure will still continue and it will be one hell of a trip.

So, going back to me throwing my toys out of the pram (car). I hope this explains why we and a lot of other land rover owners don't need to be continually told of the dangers in driving a land rover - a bit like my mum saying 'Driving to Australia, you don't want to do that, something might happen!'. :)

Peace and Love to all Toyota/Land Rover/2CV drivers in the world

I'm sorry to keep prodding the hornet's nets, but....

Most overlanders I know do give their LC's a name and do treat them as family members.

This is more down to individuals, not the vehicles. I do know of some LC owners that haven't named their trucks, but then they didn't name the LRs they had previously either.

Opinions..
 

Gentlemen

please keep it calm.

Welldone Ollie and Gil for trying to reduce the heat from this 'arguement', this is a forum where many people enjoy spending their free time discussing trips, overlanding, vehicles, camping etc, etc, etc.
We are all individuals and all have our personal opinions, whether that be biased one way or another it is an opinion no more no less. Please do not diss or insult someone for their choice or opinion, however, a little constructive criticism never hurt any one!
So please enjoy, respect others opinions, choices and comments - you do not have to agree, but you certainly do not have to insult anyone.


While we are at it, comments like this below do not prove anything:

Quote:
"If you want more reasons than character though, come green laning with me in Shropshire and Wales and draw your own conclusions.
Then perhaps the next day I could take my canvas off and have half a ton of gravel dropped in the back by a JCB at the garden centre (did that in the summer), doesn't matter if it gets dirty 'cos I can hose it out.
Then the next day I could fit a 8 seater dining table and chairs in it (did that yesterday!) .
Then the same motor can be taking me to the Libyan desert, pulling big lardy toyotas out of the dunes.
I can also cook pasties and croque monsieur on the engine, use my front bumper like an anvil, open beer bottles with my doors, and if I bend a panel I can hit it back out with the bottom of a shoe. On top of all that, the more battered it gets the cooler it looks, it's worth more now than when I bought it six years ago, is 22 years old and will still be around in another 22.
I've got more if you want me to go on"


A Toyota 70 series pick up could do exactly the same - infact I saw a number in Africa that were used and abused, but still going 100's of ?,000's of miles later.
I met farmers, tour operators, miners, etc who swore by Toyota, Land Rover and/or Nissan/, but these were all opinions, one doesn't make another right or wrong just different.
Enjoy!!

Hope you all had a Merry Christmas and have a Happy and Prosperous New Year

Which LR?
 

Back to the original question. I would personally avoid any pre. 300TDi and go for a non molested, standard vehicle. Difficult to find in the LR world but they do exist.

In the UK people seem to like ex. Utility Defenders. They are well serviced but could have led a hard life. Towing mini diggers/heavy plant and used by inconsiderate people can put huge stress on drive trains etc. Ex. BT or Water Utilities could be OK though.

Maybe a completely standard and pampered Discovery that’s never been used in anger?

We have TD5’s and apart ECU to injector wiring loom problems and cracked inlet manifolds they seem to last pretty well.

New Ford engined ones don’t seem to have a good reputation but I don’t have any personal knowledge.

The basic difference between Japanese and LR is that the former is far easier to find second hand in an unmodified and un-abused state. There’s a huge amount of after market junk available for LR’s which owners seem compelled to bolt on with little or no knowledge. (if you want proof, there’s a recent court case in the UK where some guy has been sent to prison after he killed his passengers when his bodged LR left the road and ended up in a river). Sorry UK rather than SA based opinion’s but the same principles must apply.

So IMHO go for the youngest / standard LR and they are OK.

I know, thats why my post was deliberately silly - this my cars better than yours stuff should have been left behind in the playground and is just distracting.



Mind you, my 90 is still better than a 70.
With knobs on.
:p

Marker,

Is this in your price range http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...762#post220624

The 300Tdi defender seems a decent sort:

AFRICA 4X4 CAFE: 4x4s for sale in Africa & Self Drive overland Expeditions to Sub-Saharan Africa

So why not buy a UK registered LR already in Africa and drive it home?

Ok, to answer what Land Rover to avoid for an over land trip I would say it has to be the vehicle we did a trip Ireland to Cape Town in. It "was" a 1983 Range Rover with a 2.5 diesel transit engine. We paid £328 for it, changed all the fluids/filters etc and stuck a nice set of BFG tyres on it. These things broke:
Gearbox UK - bought another on ebay uk £80
Front wheel hubs oil seals leaked oil Switzerland
Various steering and suspension bushings Turkey
Speedo cable snapped Syria
Radiator mountings collapsed due to rust Sudan
Exhaust broke off, engine mount collapsed - Sudan
Engine Injection pump disintegrated - Ethiopia
Clutch hydraulic pipe burst Kenya
Rear axle balljoint mount broke Tanzania
Rear chassis cracked right through - Tanzania
Overdrive gearbox bearing failed - Zambia
Rear brakepipes cracked - Namibia
Starter motor bushings worn out - Namibia
South Africa - Timimg belt tension pulley bearing failed (nearly killed engine)
Tanzania (again) Could not select reverse gear, clutch slave cylinder failed.
Kenya (again) - Electrical fuel cutoff switch solenoid malfunction.
(these are the ones I remember - there were more)

Now obviously we had a lot of "technical" problems but I only needed a tow for the timing belt incident and that "fix" only cost €75 including the tow (most expensive repair on trip) and had I paid attention to the screeching 500 miles earlier I probably could have prevented it.

Needless to say at the end of the trip after covering 35,000 miles in 11 months the Range Rover was in perfect working order and was parked up in Zambia. Unfortunately, she was driven a few months later (not by me) and her engine was killed with a snapped timing belt.
To be honest we didn't really expect the vehicle to make the trip and our attitude was to drive as far as we could until she died. The upside of african repairs is that they can be incredibly cheap and this is what kept us going. I reckon what caused a lot of our breakages on top of the bad roads and rusty vehicle was the fact that we totally took too much stuff and overloaded everything causing a strain on all the components.

Lessons learned - Less is more. (you don't need all those cooking pots, backup stoves, awnings, etc. Good set of tools a must. Africans can do great repairs really cheaply if you monitor them. Other overlanders we encoutered were very friendly to assisst us if needed and we found ourselves rescuing others too.

When we started I had very little knowledge of mechanics - its all about having the right attitude and telling yourself you can fix this. (or pay someone else to). Upside after this trip is I know a Classic Ranger Rover backwards and now have two more and would do the next trip in one again (after winning the lotto). I understand this trip would not be everyone's cup of tea but we found you meet the nicest people trying to get your car fixed. Compared to our friends travelling in a Hilux the Range rover was very comfortable but not a patch on reliability - I think their main complaint was a drive shaft UJ and a battery...oh and 17 punctures (we had 2).

R

I take my hat off to your bravery Richardq, I would never be able to undertake a trip like that on the same basis that you did and I'm amazed that you made it considering you paid so little for the car and bought an "ebay" gearbox on top of it, well done.

Like Ollie mentioned, jumping in a LR is like jumping into an adventure. We get that feeling every time we jump in our TD5. It's now covered 172k miles, is 10 years old and still on it's original engine, gearbox and axles. The only parts we've had to replace is the exhaust and tyres.

The hubby previously owned a 1954 Series I and a 1965 Series 2a, neither of which he had problems with.

Like choosing a bike, it's all down to personal choice and preference.

Yeh, the "where will I brake down next?" type of adventure!

I can honestly say that just thinking about bombing around the Zimbabwean bush in my old SIII still raises my pulse rate, however I've had too many bad experiences with LR to buy any of their latest offerings. The LR history, look, and relatively cheap prices, make it a very attractive proposition here in the UK but I am still holding out until I can afford a 'cruiser!

The main problem with all modern 4x4s is their reliance on electronics - for everything from winding down the windows to engine fuel management and security - this and first world servicing (nobody repairs - they swop the part out and replace).

If you've decided on your marque then look for something where you can "make a plan" or fudge a "work around" if things stop working. If you plan to do any overlanding in Africa then you'll find the fine dust gets in every nook and cranny and with older electronic components, can assist in their failure.

Basically "keep it simple" and you'll always be able to find a way to keep moving.

Go easy with me, not looking for an argument!!!
 

Before anyone dives in I'll give you some background:

I am female
I know how to drive
I know Africa well
I've fallen in love with a LWB Land Rover Defender 90, that was built in '79
I need a vehicle in Cote d'Ivoire
I will be driving this down, living in it on the way, in the quickest time possible, loaded with things for my NGO there.

So my heart & brain are telling me to go after this LR. But the economic side of me is wondering a few things ...

1. The cost of fuel, will it drink it down?
2. Mechanics I would think are possibly the 'easiest' for African mechanics, I don't know the first thing about mechanics
3. It's cheap, I read on this thread about a cheap Range Rover, I need a vehicle for my own personal use in Cote d'Ivoire and have a buyer there already for when I'm done with it ...
4. Seen a few Nissan's for around the same price .. read the other post about Nissans which was encouraging ...

Am I being completely female & mad? Would you go after it???:funmeteryes:

Does anyone want a lift south in April or so???:palm:

Thanks & please don't argue!
:D
Kira

If it was built in '79 then it will be a Series 3 not a Defender. Great trucks but IMO too much (ahem) 'character' if you are new to maintenance. As simple as meccano and as awkward as a mule.

A Def might suit better.

This probably won´t make an end of this somtimes heated topic, nevertheless thanks to all for informing me their expirience and some opinions, but I just have got an offer of a friend of mine to use his ....Landcruiser BJ75 for the trip!

Unless you'll hit a mine, you'll most probably make it to Cote d'Ivoir. Most probably not without visiting a few welders and mechanics. It might be a good idea have it checked by the LR mechanic in Dakhla before you head further south. There's plenty of SIII in Western Sahara, so they know how they work. From Dakhla, it isn't all that far to Cote d'ivoir anymore ... .

If it has a petrol engine, it will be thirsty..., and honestly, a good SIII tends to be expensive for what you get. A similar priced nissan might be a good idea, if it hasn't been abused too much...

OK, I'm not blonde but nevertheless I got a few simple bits wrong ... (no offence to blondes!)

It's being advertised as a 109 Defender - built in 79 and a diesel engine ... I don't like petrol engines if only due to their thirstiness!

The Nissan comment is interesting .. in terms of 'drinking fuel' would a 'small' under 3L Nissan engine drink less???

Thanks

Kira

Hi Kira,
we run a bunch of 3.4L diesel Nissans and they get an average of 10-11L/100kms. Nissans are good vehicles and they make good engines that is for sure. I also would stay away from a series Landrover (i.e. old ones with leaf springs all round). Their power when weighed up with their consumption is absolutely frightening... then comes the reliability and comfort issues! What about a good old Landcruiser 60 series if you can find a cheap one? Can I be rude and ask what your budget is - that way it's easier to come up with some suggestions,
Gil

Thanks Gil,

The other thing is that as you are probably aware LR's aren't that common in CI .. although there are a few around! Seen more rolling around Ghana!

Budget, 0 or as close to it. Seen a few Nissan's etc around the 1,000euro mark, essentially I'll need a vehicle in CI - I'm used to taking taxi's everywhere but with work there a vehicle will be easier! If I can get 'something' down there and sell it on and maybe buy something else when I'm there - I've got a few buyers for vehicles, pick ups are a good choice - hence my thoughts about a Nissan!

Kira

For around 1000€, I'd rather look for a Toyota Starlet or corolla and travel light. These are fairly sturdy cars, and as long as you avoid the back roads in the rainy season, they'll get you there. Any 4x4 (except a lada niva or suzuki maybe???) at that price will eat quit a bit out of your budget on repairs along the way.

What about a Toyota Hiace or Nissan Urvan - as you know they are in demand as mini-buses! And you could load one up or even rig a bedding arrangement in the back.

Yes!!!

A minibus has also been in my thoughts ... seen a few Merc's on the market at reasonable prices and again I have buyers in CI taking them off me as a Ghanaian type 'Benz bus'.

Gil, don't know if you've been to CI, but all over they have Mazda minibuses, never seen them in Europe (never looked) very square looking things very sturdy but with leaf springs (know that as one I was in managed to stuff its springs a few k's from the destination). Do you know what I mean - they're 22 seaters in CI. Don't think I've seen them in Ghana as tro-tro's ...

Still not sure when I'd be going down, ideally April, depends on a few signatures first for work.

Would a Nissan etc be sturdy enough to do it? Mechanics easy enough for Africa, I don't want 'electrics' to cause problems ... as ideally this would be my 'first' vehicle down there. The contract will mean my return to Europe and another purchase with more money the second time around so 'the vehicle' has to 'do' me for a few months & be re-saleable!

There would be 3 of us taking it down at this stage, but only me able to drive (the third is my 13yr old goddaughter currently in Australia who's begging to go back through Africa with me!!!). Having a minibus or LWB 'something' would help as I'd offer a seat or two to other travellers to cut down on costs ...

Kira

Kira, for your budget I would look at a diesel estate car, it will be easier on fuel, suit the distance driving and carry your passengers much more comfortably than a van.

Avoid a 4x4 as in that price bracket you will have problems.

really!!!!!! toyota reliable read this as one example

Toyota 200 Series VX LandCruiser - Disaster @ ExplorOz

Thanks all for your responses. The trip was already last year and has been great with absolutely zero vehicle problems during the 16.000 kms.Changed our minds and were lucky that a friend lend us his car. A 1986 Landcruiser!

really ???????????? Look here:
http://www.motorsm.com/complaints/up...t.asp?aid=4876

or here

Toyota 200 Series VX LandCruiser - Disaster @ ExplorOz

A Mechanic in sydney said he went in a diesel company to get up to speed on latest diesels this company had replace 1600 common rails in toyota diesel engines in one year they are now sadly very vunlerable to dirty fuel, water in fuel and do NOT have adquate fuel filration systems on the new V8s espically one bit of water, dirt and it bows and injection, common rail repair bill for v8 diesel is $30000 yes $30000
:oops2: