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Roof Tent or Trailer?
Got the option of fitting a roof tent with all associated HD gear for a 110 or maybe 130. Estimated weight of fully loaded LR over 3000kg.
Alternatively, remove half the weight and take a trailer with a roof tent weighing in at about 1500KG. So, do I load the LR to near max and scrap the trailer or Lighten the LR and take a trailer? Not going too far off road, used trailers for years so 'qualified' to drive/reverse one! Any suggestions as to which might be a better set-up? Cheers Nige |
Are you driving to Tesco's or Cape Town?
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Certainly not Tesco's! Fortnum and Mason's maybe...:cool4:
Route from Oman via Tanzania to South Africa. Working in South Africa and after that...Maybe South America or India and points east. Can see advantages in both a trailer and lighter vehicle or no trailer and heavier vehicle. Or maybe I should just get a Unimog? |
Absolutely forget the trailer. Those few who have travelled with them across Africa usually regret them. You will (probably) lose all sense of exploration and it will just be a burden in so many ways.
They are better for holidays where you will stay in just one or two places. Most landies when packed up are around 3,000kg. Drive slowly and you'll be fine. |
Fair enough. Was thinking along those lines - whilst used to having a trailer, it does cause problems, especially city parking.
Right, loaded Landie it is. Thanks very much for the advice - just needed a nudge in the right direction. Cheers Nige |
If you took a trailer you'd probably end up ditching it in frustration. As RY says it is great for a two week trip to a game park so you can "set up camp" and drive away each morning but otherwise it will be a huge pain.
Think carefully about what you take. You simply can't win trying to pack for every eventuality (and trust me we tried!). The rule is whatever breaks will be the only thing you don't have a spare of. Our Land Rover was nearer the 3500kg mark and it was amazing what we DIDN'T use. Also think very hard about how you organise what you do take. Accessibility is everything for everyday stuff (not so much obscure spares which you can bury). You just won't use what you can't easily access which means you may as well leave it behind. |
Perhaps give us a list of things you were looking at adding onto the landy and we can 'help' knock a few off. A run down the east coast isn't very challenging if you stick to the beaten paths (I didn't much) and we can maybe save you some hassle and costs (though we want 10% commission on all savings!! ;-p )
I had capacity for 280 litres of fuel for example, and a huge number of spares that you don't need down the east coast. 110 is a good size for many reasons, 130 will get stuck a bit more often if you are heading off the beaten track etc. If you go for a truck (which personally I'm against for many reasons) then your costs will increase a lot (diesel, shipping, tolls, park entrances etc). A well kitted out standard 4x4 is a perfect size for Africa imho. |
Thanks for the offer - sorry for the delay, out in the hills with no service
Still at the setting up stage so very provisional list...NOT in any order or preference but here goes:- Heavy duty:- drive train - prop shafts, diffs, differentials with ARB lockers, crowns, suspension with air assistance, diff breathers, Front and rear winches and bumpers Bash plates all under, side rock runners Long range fuel tank with jerry cans and rack Water tank with filters and extended hose with pump Chequer plate protection as required Air compressor (tied in with snorkel to keep crap out) and tools, snorkel, high exhaust Waterproofed engine (as far as is reasonably possible) no swimming intended Roll cage - external? Window grills and safety film Safety door locks, Lockable cubby, roof console with additional instrumentation Additional lights - LED inside and working lights, spots fogs etc Solar panel(s) Battery management system Fuel/battery cut off (hidden) Bull bar Air conditioning(pondering this one for the other half) HD roof rack with tent Storage boxes, cases, trays Cooker, toilet (and tent?) Hi lift jack and mount, bull bag (air jack bag) Sound system tied in with GPS/laptop/GPS tracker etc. and phones (his and hers) Steering guard Spare tyre mount x 2 Split rims or 'Wolf' style rims... Anti-roll bars Twin rear shocks Tow straps, shackles, tyre levers, wheel brace, radiator plugs, Haynes Manual(!) puncture repair kit/gel/foam, axe/hatchet, spade, socket sets etc Inverter/generator Side awning(s) Sun roof/escape hatch In-built cameras - as per reversing but at front as well CB radio - if legal Better seats, harnesses Additional alternator 2" lift and modified drive train to suit RAM mounts for camera, laptop etc Light/radiator guards Rear cargo grill Braided hoses all round Twin Kenlowe fans HD water pump Additional screen washer HD brakes - as it will be heavy Fridge Overdrive - do they still make them? Had one on a 73 Series 2A Station Wagon, excellent Air horns, load liners, Halogen lights, Waxoyl/Dinatrol, locking wheel nuts, Oil cooler and gearbox fins Revised dashboard/console for switches/instrumentation etc Hi aerial with flag for dunes (standard warning out here in Oman) That's it so far. All taken from either personal knowledge or ideas nicked from vehicles in Oman/U.A.E. NOT checked weight yet not if everything available for chosen vehicle - not chosen vehicle either... Any suggestions? Hopefully internet will stay up and I can get access Cheers Nige |
OK assuming this was me kitting out a Defender or Land Cruiser for a year down the East Coast of Africa, and I had about £10,000 to £20,000 to spend including buying the vehicle and getting a mechanical overhaul (WHICH IS THE MOST IMPORTANT PART ;-)
First of all, buy yourself a copy of this: Chris Scott ~ Overlanders Handbook and read it before spending any money. 1. DEFINITELY Water tank with filters and extended hose with pump (saves money in the long run). Air compressor HD roof rack with tent - I recommend Autohome is the world's leading�roof top tents manufacturer. as the South African style tents are too much hassle for daily use. Columbus variant with the winter cover (blocks out 90% of the sun in the morning, and extra hours sleep. The triangle shaped ones allow doggy style ;-p Storage boxes, cases, trays - Use plastic square stackable Rako boxes myself. Cooker - gas is easier Hi lift jack and mount Steering guard Spare tyre mount x 2 Tow straps, shackles, tyre levers, wheel brace, radiator plugs, Haynes Manual(!) puncture repair kit/gel/foam, axe/hatchet, spade, socket sets etc Side awning(s) 2. GOOD IDEA IF YOU HAVE THE MONEY Bash plates all under Long range fuel tank with jerry cans and rack (saves money in the long run usually) snorkel Window grills - don't need 'safety film' just never leave anything in sight, and always have the vehicle somewhere it is guarded. 5 years in Africa and never had a break in. Safety door locks, Lockable cubby Additional lights - LED inside and working lights, spots fogs etc - good idea to have plenty of outside light, and lights you can use underneath if need be i.e.: movable led's Solar panel(s) Battery management system Fuel/battery cut off (hidden) Bull bar - not a bad idea in traffic etc Air conditioning(pondering this one for the other half) - mostly good for when driving in cities, of as it often is, sitting in traffic. I have never used. Split rims or 'Wolf' style rims... I use Wold rims - dunno about split rims, what about spliff rims instead? ;-p Twin rear shocks - worked well for me with Koni shocks and slow driving Light/radiator guards Rear cargo grill Braided hoses all round Twin Kenlowe fans HD water pump - not sure there is one for my landy??? HD brakes - as it will be heavy - depends on what vehicle. Fridge - nice to have, need a 2nd deep cycle battery to run it off and ideally a 100-120watt solar panel. locking wheel nuts Oil cooler and gearbox fins diff breathers 3. NOT NEEDED Front and rear winches and bumpers Side rock runners high exhaust Roll cage - drive slower! roof console with additional instrumentation - not a space craft ;-p bull bag (air jack bag) - dunno, but I think best for sand. You need something that will hold the vehicle in place better in case of mechanics when you have to use a hammer etc Anti-roll bars - not sure what they are? Invertor - everything can run off 12 volt nowadays Sun roof/escape hatch In-built cameras - as per reversing but at front as well - use your eyes, they are free. If in doubt, use the handbrake, open the door, walk around to the back and look. CB radio - if legal - if only one of you, who are you going to talk too? Useful if more than one of you, but better to just use small handhelds and be descreet. Additional alternator - I have a slightly upgraded one. You shouldn't need. 2" lift and modified drive train to suit - don't use lift kits I say. HD springs, with air bags or helped springs RAM mounts for camera, laptop etc - not needed as laptop is best not mounted in the cab etc Additional screen washer Overdrive - do they still make them? Had one on a 73 Series 2A Station Wagon, excellent Air horns, load liners, Halogen lights, Waxoyl/Dinatrol, Revised dashboard/console for switches/instrumentation etc Heavy duty:- drive train - prop shafts, diffs, differentials with ARB lockers, crowns, suspension with air assistance, diff breathers 4. USELESS WANK Chequer plate protection as required Waterproofed engine (as far as is reasonably possible) no swimming intended toilet - take a tiny hand sized garden spade and a spray bottle of water. She will get used to it. Sound system tied in with GPS/laptop/GPS tracker etc. and phones (his and hers) - sorry ;-p Sound system is good idea, nice to have music, but keep it all hidden! no need for a laptop with gps, uses too much space in a small cab and far too much hassle to put away when you stop for lunch, the bank etc. Something like the Garmin 276 with tracks4africa loaded is perfect. 5. I WILL POUR SUGER INTO IT IF YOU HAVE ONE OF THESE YOU INCONSIDERATE %$£@! Generator - use solar and 12 volt - easy, plus many campsites in east Africa have mains electricity available (well, sometimes!) |
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Not that I am for a truck at all, just to know pros and cons beyond being able to carry 6 members family and increasing all costs as you mention. Just that I might consider one in the future if we had several children. Esteban |
Thanks for that! Tried to reply yesterday but no joy
Will have a re-think about everything. Off into the hills again, more off-roading but no internet Will catch up when I get back Cheers Nige |
Just one additional note on what Darrin has said about your list.
I was looking at an additional alternator mount for a defender from Glynn Lewis, the other day. I use a unrated alternator for my split charge, but have often thought about carrying my old alternator as a spare. They can be bulky and a pain to store if you are short of space. The Glynn Lewis mount would provide a great way of storing your spare. Unconnected. What do you think? Twin Alternator Mount 300 Tdi Defender/Discovery 2nd Alternator Mount WARN 8274 | eBay |
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You could mount in in the engine bay but it will just get full of crap which is arguably how you would end up blowing up the original one! I agree they take up space but would still keep one inside or atleast boxed up somewhere. I suppose you could mount it inside a tough bag on that mount? seems like a lot of money though just to 'store' your spare. food for thought jeiger G |
roamingyak.org http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...ser_online.gif
Registered Users Veteran HUBBer @ roamingyak: thanks for sharing your experience :thumbup1: @Nige: I can also add the point fuel usage. Modding your car will burns more fuel. On my V8 Diesel we talk about 3l at 100km - with all the mods - additional use.. You should look what results others have - with you car and same engine. Maybe this would change your thoughts about modding too. I`m pretty shure that my buildup is overkill - but i would do it again this way - because we will travel alone - and have to be able to help us by yourself. Most travelers found other travelers on the way - and drive many parts as team. When you plan to handle it the same way - you dont have to do an overkill with you build. Surfy |
Yep, definitely forget the trailer.
Id agree with RoamingYaks 'revised' list. If only 2 of you travelling go with a 110 hard top or station wagon - station wagon being my personal favorite, mount fridge where one of the side 2nd row seats is. Having used a Hannibal for a few years they are not bad, especially when its hot and I dont find them too fiddly to set up or pack away, all roof tents have their drawbacks, their main advantage is you can transfer them to a new vehicle relatively easily. The best set up would definitely be a lifting roof conversion, park up, pop some catches, climb upstairs and go to sleep. www.landy-camper.de Theres a few German companies that do lifting roof conversion, they are not cheap, but look at the cost of a camping trailer, winch and full roll cage and the conversion is not far off the same price. Dont take a big pile of spare parts, put new parts on the Defender before you leave. take sensible spares. Fit long range fuel tanks, can save money in long run and gives piece of mind if fuel is difficult to find or you wish to take a longer route or detour. Invest in a good simple reliable water storage system. Use fairly cheap, lightweight camping gear. Fit a good side awning to get out of the sun/rain If it doesnt have at least 2 uses dont take it. Less weight = less stress on engine, drive train, suspension = more reliabilty = less stress for you |
Still at the setting up stage so very provisional list...NOT in any order or preference but here goes:-
Heavy duty:- drive train - prop shafts, diffs, differentials not needed with ARB lockers rear useful ,, suspension with air assistance possibly dual springs ala 130, diff breathers, good idea Front and rear winches and bumpers one on front sufficient Bash plates all under, side rock runners Not req your going overland not on a rally Long range fuel tank with jerry cans and rack long range rear with 1 front tank plus a couple of cans for use on long sections otherwise empty Water tank with filters and extended hose with pump better to have seperate water containers Chequer plate protection as required possibly on wing tops and bonnet Air compressor (tied in with snorkel to keep crap out) and tools, snorkel, high exhaust standard is OK Waterproofed engine (as far as is reasonably possible) no swimming intended snorkel sufficient Roll cage - external? Overkill really dont rush about Window grills and safety film grills yes dont leave temptation in sight Safety door locks, Lockable cubby, roof console with additional instrumentation door locks hidden safe try and use KISS principle Additional lights - LED inside and working lights, spots fogs etc Solar panel(s) Battery management system simple manual switch more reliable Fuel/battery cut off (hidden) Yes Bull bar inc winch Air conditioning(pondering this one for the other half) Helps you stay fresh and eases fatigue but expensive standard early system poor performer HD roof rack with tent make sure roof rack has long feet in gutter Storage boxes, cases, trays Cooker, toilet (and tent?) stool type adequate(convenient) + spade Hi lift jack and mount, bull bag (air jack bag) Hi lift heavy and rarely needed decent hydraulic bottle jack/s better bull bag limited use Sound system tied in with GPS/laptop/GPS tracker etc. and phones (his and hers) Steering guard Yes Spare tyre mount x 2 Yes plus tubes Split rims or 'Wolf' style rims. Why? run tubeless and carry kit .. Anti-roll bars Twin rear shocks Same at front and just use standard shocks Tow straps, shackles, tyre levers, wheel brace, radiator plugs, Haynes Manual(!) puncture repair kit/gel/foam,waste of time axe/hatchet, spade, socket sets etc Inverter/generator Inverter yes Side awning(s) Yes Sun roof/escape hatch Why? In-built cameras - as per reversing but at front as well CB radio - if legal who you going to talk to ? Better seats, harnesses Additional alternator 2" lift and modified drive train to suit stay at standard height lift not needed causes more problems than it solves RAM mounts for camera, laptop etc Light/radiator guards done by bull bar chaff guard useful Rear cargo grill yes to prevent load moving forward Braided hoses all round Twin Kenlowe fans original perefectly adequate HD water pump not needed Additional screen washer HD brakes - as it will be heavy just take spare pads Fridge Overdrive - do they still make them? Had one on a 73 Series 2A Station Wagon, excellent not needed on defender Air horns, load liners, Halogen lights, Waxoyl/Dinatrol, locking wheel nuts, Oil cooler and gearbox fins use synthetic oil eg redline Revised dashboard/console for switches/instrumentation etc KISS again Hi aerial with flag for dunes (standard warning out here in Oman) Make sure all cooling system is in 1st class condition Load lightness as much as possible HTSH |
Thanks chaps for all the advice!
Now - as ever - plans changed, not going from Oman but probably from Libya! Will be posted back to Libya - having been evacuated in Feb 2010 - and might have to start from there. Not even sure if it is possible at present with the local area problems but will find out more when I get there. Could be - what's the word...- interesting?! Cheers Nige |
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Hi Nigel, Firstly, sack the trailer off. Secondly, ditch some of the weight. 3000kg isn't bad, but it is far from good. In the 3000kg, what weight is Land Rover, and what weight is "extra stuff" vette |
Youve done some great research, which will always be beneficial to you.
the Answer is buy a small 4x4 trailer in SA, and go with a roof top tent on the car getting there. As youre still figuring out the car, I suggest the Station wagon the side access doors being really useful. 300tdi, because its the most suited... but make sure its fully serviced and has a history, recent replacements. A new car is likely to not be sucha good idea and / or meet budget Sounds like youre going to use it as a main vehicle when you get to SA in which case be wary of modding it to the point where its impractical to use when you get there as an everyday vehicle. My pointers are that a Trailer is excellent in SA, as long as youre not going on any trails. If youre going to bring it into Kenya from the North, its basically not going to work at all. I know I have had my trailer overtake me twice, once with my ball hitch attached to it, and once without. A trailer is useful, to put a roof top tent on and to store a few very light weight bits and bobs, as someone else says, great for leaving as a camp whilst in a safaris park so you can drive off and come back each night. Essential gear: >Heavy duty battery. (possibly twin batteries split charged, but I've never seen the need) > if for whatever reason you are really draining batteries rather get one uprated amp alternator than two. You only need two alternators if it is running something else like a Unipower welder / generator >Hi Lift Jack, with purpose built jacking points all round the car. Standard Defender bull bar and side is not suitable for jacking it up. Mount it securely, and preferably on the front bumper (move weight forward.) >Jackable side sills >Internal / External roll cage which you can mount the Roof top tent onto as well as too much weight up high! >Twin shocks all around >Upgrade the suspension system with HD Springs, do it properly, not just a 2 inch lift, get springs that are harder to compress rather than giving more lift. >Discovery UJ's or at least 1 spare UJ the Disco rubber ones are lighter and are great. >Two spare wheels, one on bonnet, get as much weight up front as you can, one off rear swing away gate (aids lockable security) make sure you have a third spare tyre if not putting 2 spares in the back. (although wolf style side tyre mount has many benefits) >Make sure that you know how to, and can change a tyre, I am not convinced that split rims are a good idea given the likely hood of you needing to repeatedly change tyres. By the end of my 2nd Nairobi to Cape town trip, I could switch tyres on the rim in under an hour. I have awesome experience with tubeless tyres, but always carry spare tubes as well. still wouldnt use split rims >Built in spare fuel tank under front seats. >Jerry cans red for diesel and blue for water, take more than you need, I make sure that I have 40litres of jerry can diesel, 40 litre diesel under seat spare and 60 litres of water. then spare oil, 2x10 litres and spare hydraulic fluid - thats 300Kgs just of dead weight liquid. >Improve the cooling system. Landrovers are built for the UK, where its not traditionally very warm, nor is the altitude anything to write home about. The route you're going on, will challenge the Turbo diesel engines to the max, low speed, high torque, high revs. Kenlowe fans or similar will help, but improving the intercooler and oil cooling system is a better idea. To help cool the engine, pop the bonnet when resting, or running high revs at low speed. >I would suggest bonnet latches too, these prevent the bonnet from rattling around too much on hard hits >Panga and Spade. Absolute must. >Sound system, a waste of time 95% of the time. >Heavy duty tyre spanner, and a replacement >If necessary inverter for general charging (12v - 240v) >Solar panels to top up the Battery. Dont need much, its a contingency only >Roof hatch into the rear of the roof top tent is surprisingly useful. WHY? so you can get from the tent into the car without getting onto the ground when a lion is sleeping around / under your car. >Canvas seat covers, or anything similar. >Side awning really makes a small difference. I am a fan of the SAFA roof top tents, they started it and have every option covered, I've used Ezi Awn and Hannibal, but the biggest ones are the coolest. You dont need one, its lighter to just put a full length plywood on the roof section roll cage and then pitch a normal tent up there. But the speed of putting up a roof top tent cant be beaten when youre exhausted and just want protection. Have the Roof top tent fold forward over the bonnet onto the front bull bar, so you can drive around for better positioning without taking it down. >You can make a full length bed arrangement out the back by folding forward the rear seats, and having slats that run the width of the Landy, or a Hammock type arrangement, but though enhanced safety, it gets really hot >If its really really hot a hammock tent cannot be beaten for a cool nights / Afternoons sleep >12v Fridge, I favour Minus 40, because they retain their temperature over Engels, but the 40 litre engel is legendary, and probably the best bet given its physical size. learn to use it efficiently. >Diff locks - if you get one fitted, take a spare (the short one) half shaft >Snatch (dynamic) rope and pulling points more useful than a winch >2x 70m + of nylon braid rope. uses range from extending the length of a winch cable - hanging showers from trees every use you can ever imagine, and a million you can't. try to get a rope that doesnt stretch >Winch Personally I choose the hydraulic ones, and have used everything from a manual one (necessary evil) to tir-for's to a block and tackle system to electric winches. (I know Hydraulic ones dont work unless the engine is running, or useless in a flooded engine situation) 4000lbs is more than suitable for overlanding what you will need to use it for, the 8000lbs winches are great for competition use, but not worth the extra weight for overlanding alone. I would rather have a 2500lbs winch than an 8000 one, given the weight on the bumper. >Pulley block and bumper mounted D ring to double up the capacity. >If you are going into a desert with a winch, a suitable sand orientated ground anchor is a must, otherwise youre in for a bad wake up call. >12v Strip lights with 10 meters cable, and a red filter >Decent 12v spot light with enough cable that you can cover all the way around your vehicle. Rechargeable are more hassle than their weight is worth, and reliability is shaky at best (after 1000kms of african roads) >Gas cylinders preferably mounted externally. >Anything mounted externally should be lockable, lots of padlocks one key system. This is a stalling tactic rather than ultimate preventative, to prevent opportunistic theft. >The window cages are useful, again they prevent hands liberating you of things whilst you are not looking, but ultimately will not help you whilst you are away from the vehicle. >Fuel transfer / cut off switch thats hidden is not great particularly if you forget, and is just another thing to go wrong. Same with electrical cut off switches. It all boils down to how much you want to modify an existing vehicle into a dedicated overlander, rather than having a normal car at the end of it. Additional fuel tanks jackable sills, bull bar, and roof rack / roll cage about the most that you can do without starting to loose value on the car. > if you're car jacked and then it breaks down 100m away from you, and you were lucky enough to get out safe and (stranded) sound, its not going to end well, rather the bad people are as far away from you as possible with all your stuff. >Not essential, but built in rear water tank is really useful, in my experience I used water drums more than the tank, but on a few occasions I diddnt get water where I had expected to, and the 40litres under the rear load bed was a life saver. So use this as a reserve rather than your budgeted water supply |
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Follow the Fiat Panda Yellowbrick Tracking Map | Africa Record Run |
Hello!
you are runnung way too much weight....it will make life miserable on the road to move around all the stuff all the time...you will have also lots off stuff to steal and worry while you are away from vehicle... from my experince: rebuilt car before you go...and use it few months before you go to sort out any surprices....this way you take fewer spares = weight good tools are must, but again, many tools can be found from garages...if you car breaks on the road you will seek help, most likely rather than fix on the spot. short list for packing for every person Madventures Travel School - E2 - Packing up - YouTube honestly, you will need no more....you can all ways buy more along the way.... secure secret safe in car, rooftent, good sleeping bags, light source, engel fridge, litlle gas stove and pans ...laptop with good super long lasting battery+smart phone with skype/e-mail these will get you far away :scooter: rest of it, really people do have soap ect. available everywhere..... ps. for the ferries, they will ripp you off with trailer, much more cheaper with shor cars.....example, turku-helsinki was 4 times more expensive with trailer.....:thumbdown: |
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