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Pickup for overlanding ?
Hello there !
I'm looking for a pickup for an upcoming overland trip from CH to at least Mauritania (via Morocco), maybe further south to Senegal and back. We are a swiss couple without children, that means that we only need two seats and don't have so much things to carry. I'd still want a double cab pickup because of the improved security (key lock in the cabin) for some of our stuff. Does taking a pickup over a traditionnal 4x4 make sense ? My opinion is, as long as I have a big enough cabin, the big loading space of a pickup really makes sense for overlanding. I've already started to look for some of the available models and found these three : Two japanese "classics" : Nissan Navarra (2.5) and Toyota Hilux (2.5 or 3.0) The european newcomer : VW Amarok (2.0 BiTDI) I managed to try both the 3.0 Hilux and VW Amarok (both in manual and automatic gearbox) and the VW is definitely well made and the easiest to drive (like a car, just bigger). The fuel consumption of the 2.0 VW engine is very impressive too (less than 9.5 litres/100 km). The Hilux is simpler (which is both a pro and a con) and probably more reliable. It's other advantage is the availability of the parts if something breaks down... The japanese are cheaper than the VW, especially used, but I have some kind of personnal affection to VW which makes me love the Amarok. Do you have some advice or personnal experience to give ? Thanks guys, take care ! PS: my previous offroad experience was with an old Mercedes GE-230 (automatic) which is now time to replace with something newer. |
I spent years overlanding in a Hilux 4x4, single cab, but I was alone.
I made an aluminium deck which can be locked down to the rear tub, meaning the storage space there is more secure than in the cab. It also meant I could cover this with a normal tonneau cover, which made the truck look completely normal, very important for me. A pickup is also a lot lighter than say a Landcruiser, and pretty much as tough. The rear deck is 220+ cm long, meaning I can strike a standard tent on this, and collapse it easily and cover it with the tonneau cover. The only down side was that it is not possible really to seal water / dirt out of the rear tonneau, and that there was limited space in the cab. An Xtra cab might solve the space issue, but with the same length of rear tub, it makes the vehicle very long indeed. As for your choices, my gut feeling would be to stay well clear of such a small engine in such a huge truck. The Amarok is almost as big as a F150, but the smallest F150 has a 3.5 litre twin turbo petrol, and 365 BHP. That 2.0 diesel must be very highly stressed, and I guess very sensitive to bad fuel. A Toyota is definitely the machine to take out of Europe. |
Thanks. It really makes sense about the engine. Of course a small cc new generation engine will probably be a lot more sensitive to bad fuel and will need to be revved harder (the Amarok is HEAVY !).
And if it breaks, I don't think that I have any chance to find spares out of South Africa, Western EU, some parts of SA and maybe Asia. In the rest of the world, the Toyotas are the kings... I found your blog a few months ago, that's amazing. I think you are the one that made me think about a pickup for overlanding. ======== Looking at your pictures, you don't seem to have changed a lot of things on your Hilux. It didn't look like a Dakar rally car or coming directly from Mars, which is a HUGE advantage in these parts of the world... What are your recommendations ? What are the things to modify or reinforce on an Hilux (in general, not especially on the newer ones) ? |
Yes, stealth is the key... I wouldn't feel so comfortable driving across Afghanistan with a typical 'expedition' prepared Landcruiser with snorkels and rooftents and stickers and sagging rear springs :D
I am not familiar with the latest generation of Hilux, but I would say to keep it as standard as possible. I have upgraded the standard leaf springs and shocks on my truck, but mostly because the originals were finished, and good quality aftermarket springs by Old Man Emu are still cheaper than genuine ones. I would try to make a luggage / cover system which is as inconspicuous and convenient to use as possible, and save the rest of my money for actually travelling! |
One more question : was your Hilux a diesel engine ?
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Pick up is fine for this type of trip, although they have a higher payload many think they are not as tough as a 'proper' landcruiser. I would advise trying not to load to more than 1/3rd of max payload on a double cab, my mark 6 hilux loaded with a ton of aggregate feels over heavy, compared to my HJ60 landcruiser, theoretically with a rating of half the payload of the lux, massively overloaded across West Africa which felt fine. The payload rating on double cabs is a tax dodge and is, in my opinion, too high, certainly for overlanding.
navara, no, bottom ends fail due to overheating, and that's in Europe, in Africa they have no chance (African spec ones have a different engine). Amarok, no, too many problems to mention. Loads and loads of reliability issues, an over tuned overcomplex engine and no reputation of building vehicles for this type of application, and reputation is worth a lot when your life depends on it. If it drives like a car, it's because it's built like a car!! Hilux, absolutely, but mark 5 or earlier because euro 5, and maybe even euro 4 presents issues.. My ideal choice (if I didn't have my landcruiser!) would be a mark 4 Hilux, but what about an 80 series landcruiser? they're a fine truck. |
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Very useful inputs !
I'll be looking for an old generation Hilux (1998-early 2005 if I'm not mistaken, before the Euro 3). Anyway. To answer the question about the Landrovers or Landcruisers, I'd really prefer a pickup to stay as low profile as possible as danielsprague said. But I'll have a look at them too. 1) what is the maximum mileage you would consider buying ? 2) do I need to focus on diesel engines or are petrol ones fine too ? Keep the ideas coming ! :scooter: |
diesel is better as generally cheaper, more inert, therefore safer as can fuel and more economical.
Age is, to a certain extent, not important, condition is everything |
The main problem with buying a pickup is that they are almost always work vehicles, often worked hard and poorly maintained, especially the bodywork.... keep looking for a good one and get some expert advice when looking at potential cars!
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Terrific Tojo's ;-)
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Toyota is IMHO the benchmark. Having built a Toyota HJ75 series Land Cruiser Tray Back Ute (Pickup) 100mm shorter chassis then the HZJ for better entry and exits, Stating with a chassis and a tub, it turned out to be the most reliable, economical and all round beast I have ever owned. 10 years without an issue and was capable of 1350 K's @100 Kph without filling up.
Fitted was a 61 Series 12HT Factory Turbo Diesel Engine. Aux fuel tank, 75 Lt. Water tank and shower with pump. Thomas PTO winch with 50m of S/S 10m cable. Snorkel for deep water crossings, AC, CD, CB, Work light and Spotties, Super springs, Quality gas shocks, Non flip Shackles and 33 inch tyres. Build time was about 3 months, cost was around 10K AU at the time and wouldn't be all that much more now if you had the time to swap out or source parts. Bullet proof engines, kicking myself for selling it doh Failing that just buy a 61 Series Sahara Wagon with the 12HT motor in it. Or, I now own a Toyota Hilux Extra Cab Ute, a great combination because you can carry 4 passenger's if need be and there's enough room to lock up personal belongings and still have a usable sized ute, reasonably cheap and a very reliable, economical and capable 4X4. Cheers Dave |
I would suggest to take an VW Amorak.
In germany at sample, your Car has to fulfill the Euro4 Emission Standard, that you can use your car in the bigger cities like Berlin. In times where the EU can add additional taxes for old cars, or define areas where older cars arent allowed - you should go with the time. The VW Amorak has a wide base, give you more room to build a cargo-room or an Sleeping Area like this: http://www.geocar.com/_lccms_/_00014.../image0005.jpg To have 10cm more in the width is a big bargain! Far I know has the VW much more than just 10cm more with to his competitors.. A trip to Senegal and back you can do with near any car, that shouldnt give you any restrictions for choosing your Pickup. For an extended trip there is more to consider with modern Cars: 4x4tripping: Using an Euro5 Diesel car for an worldtrip? Surfy |
I won't go over the arguments of new vs old as it has been done to death, however:
The Amarok has had loads of problems with reliability and build quality. Check out the forums. It is a new, relatively untested design. VW has no history of building this type of vehicle. It has a highly tuned and complex twin turbo 2.0 engine. It has no low range box, which gives you some indication of it's off road intentions. Whilst it may be nice to drive around the streets of Berlin, it would be, in my opinion, about the worst choice of vehicle you could make for overlanding! It is simply not up to the job. You would probably be better off taking VW Golf! If you are looking at new there are only 2 realistic choices of pickup that have the credibility, reputation and reliability, and when your life depends on your vehicle starting in the morning, that counts for a lot. 1st is the Hilux, 2nd is the Isuzu Dmax. thats an L200 in the piccie above BTW, also a not terribly good vehicle! |
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did you get hold of a factory new one? |
Electronic may cause headaches.
A close friend has recently faced difficulties with the electronic fuel injection system of a recent generation LR Freelancer. Basically the system limited engine revs, thus limiting speed to 80 km/h, because of low quality diesel fuel that he had bought in the Pyrenees (!). In the end he had LR service tow the car all the way back to the dealership in Lombardy and cover for a temporary replacement vehicle for his trip.
Those systems are for sure useful to prevent damage but also getting all the more complex to the extent that taking an EFI vehicle for an overland trip in countries where quality of fuel can be dreadful can become a costly adventure. I guess proper electronic preparation just as improvements to suspension and alike are in order, if possible. So IMHO the simpler the better. Having mentioned that, I happen to have a LR Defender 300 Tdi up for sale on this very forum. Unfortunately it's not a pick-up truck, but at least it has none of those electronic innovations. Have a look, I'm also in Switzerland. should you wish to take it for a road test. http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...6-300tdi-70861 |
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I especially like the map of worldwide sulphur content in diesel, do you know whether the quoted figures are regulatory limits or actual measurements in the fuel? I know Iranian diesel stinks of sulphur to the point of smelling quite different from European diesel, but I never noticed any significant increase in smoke output. Having a new generation EFI Euro 4, 5 common rail blah blah diesel would be terrible for overlanding. Even if one didn't have any problems, fuel quality, filter condition would become a constant obsession. I think for many years, pre common rail mechanical injector / VE rotary pump engines will be the overlander's choice. |
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We don't talk about to choose an proper vehicle for an tour operator who mostly drive in africa for the next 100`000km. You not even need an additional fuel tank to use these "better" fuel stations who are available, you don't had to use barrels on the roadside for reaching Senegal. So i don't see an contradiction there. I did a 20`500km transafrica by an modern diesel based car, had to used these barrels on the roadside in congo too. And yes, we reach south africa over the west. You can read our experience in details at Trans-Africa Surfy |
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Thanks again for all the inputs, I'll stay focused on the pre Euro 3 Hilux (idealy 1998-early 2005), mainly diesel, maybe petrol or in second choice an Isuzu D-Max. I think that a manual gearbox is the way to go or are automatic good too ? |
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The 61 series Sahara Wagons are around but hard to find, I agree. The HJ75 / HZJ75 series utes would be hard to find also. A mate in France found and bought a 61 series Sahara Wagon with the 12HT in mint condition last year for 5000 Euro, he loves it! Guess you just have to want one enough to start sourcing the parts! It's quite an easy build and once you have it all together.............:thumbup1: Quote: Originally Posted by ar1814 http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...s/viewpost.gif Thanks again for all the inputs, I'll stay focused on the pre Euro 3 Hilux (idealy 1998-early 2005), mainly diesel, maybe petrol or in second choice an Isuzu D-Max. I think that a manual gearbox is the way to go or are automatic good too ? Good choice, I'd look for the 2.7 petrol engine 2000 Toyota Hilux RZN174R, a few pints to consider, get freewheeling hubs and put mags on it, the difference in handling is huge, unsprung weight ect ;-) Keep away from the Isuzu! Good luck! |
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Ceci dit, ce Defender a l'air en excellent état et plus que bien équipé. Sans compter le prix qui a l'air dans ceux du marché. Merci pour la proposition :-) Quote:
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Gotta wonder why a car would need an 8 speed gearbox! A Dmax will have the same fuel issues as any other euro5 engine of course but seem a well thought of truck. never driven one (bit too blingy for me) but we've had a couple of troopers which were excellent. The Dmax is one of those trucks you never hear much about, which is usually a good sign!! |
Actually the 2.7 litres petrol doesn't seem to be available in Switzerland. With a petrol engine I can only find 2.5 litres (140 hp). Is that the same engine just smaller ?
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I didn't think about country specific regulations for the same model cars, Toyota Hilux's are very tough cars regardless, petrol or diesel. Stick to basic models, try not to be too concerned about cosmetics, dents ect will make the car cheaper to buy but it won't hinder it's performance, after all is not a show pony it's for going bush right? Low K's and good maintenance records are what I look for. The reason I get petrol motors in Hilux's is, they are quieter, smoother, a bit more powerful, less service intervals and petrol is cheaper than diesel here. I found after a search it's not so easy in CH, might be easier to find one in Germany or France provided its not too expensive to import? Cheers Dave |
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In my experience 80% of the cars sitting in the hard shoulder with hazard lights on and a family sitting on the verge are Audi, VW, Seat... |
Its a modern VAG trait, I had a lovely mk3 diesel golf, non turbo. Never gave a bit of bother mechanically and never got looked after.
I made the terrible mistake of buying a Passat for a'good' car. Some halfwit designed it with an intercooler just inside the massive plastic bumper about 6 inches above the ground. With no protection, cue 2 replacement intercoolers, it also had the most stupid electronic boost valve on the turo that I replaced 3 times. Also the suspension on the front, the 2 arms, have to be replaced totally when the rubber bushes wear out. Piece of cr!p would be my opinion of it. I would never buy another VAG product due to all the extra complexity. As regards the above, well I have a 1991 80 series landcruiser, not a Hilux, I actually had a mk3 Hilux for the farm and I never found it overly comfortable on a longer drive so I bought an 80 series as well. I do agree with the argument for avoiding all the Dakar rally look, I've kept it pretty much stock, except for a bullbar and winch on the front, but I put that on because its useful for home. The only other visiable modification that can serve any purpose is a snorkle. What the attraction in roof tents is I do not know, and as for covering it in stickers like a bread van or a rally car, no thanks. I wouldn't touch anything with a euro 4/5 engine for a trip, regardless of what Surfy achieved (personally I think he was lucky). Never mind the diesel quality, how are electronic mishaps going to be fixed on the road, yes you can trace them MOST of the time with a laptop and suitable software but where are you going to find the sensors etc to fix them. Remember all the normal mechanical problems can still happen to, you are only adding a whole lot of (totally unnecessary) extra parts to break too. Added to that, in a big new Landcruiser 200, local people are going to think you are either a super rich foreigner, to either be milked or suspicious of; or that you are a gangster; or that your just a t!t in a big shiny yoke going 'look at me' same as we all think when some clown in a big expensive car is trying to push out of a junction at home. The last bit is just my 2 cents worth, its not meant to offend anyone, but I have always felt a bit happier at least trying to blend in where ever I go. I don't wear flash clothes, or like 'bling' and am instantly untrusting of anyone like that. People who engage in ostentatious displays of wealth tend to garner that reaction the world over, especially in rural areas where people are naturally conservative, often poor and at the very least 'thrifty', no matter if your in Ireland, Germany, Romania, China or wherever.:blushing::taz: |
Can't comment from experience on pickups but theres a lot of consistent reliable advice from people on picking a simple to fix vehicle for your trip whether it be a 2cv, hilux or older 4x4
And thens theres a single voice repeatedly challenging that established advice. Keep it simple light and easily fixed and you won't go far wrong |
I'm with Liammons, making yourself look rich makes you a target, wether it's bribes from officials or other robbers on the road, personally, I try to garner the poverty struck look!! even then, your still obviously vastly richer than most of the locals, but at least you aren't shoving it in their faces.
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The Hilux 'Bakkie' is a well regarded overlanding vehicle in southern africa and if their ravellers use it why can't you???!!!!
Margaret |
Not sure if this has been mentioned, but dust ingress into the "ute" area can be a real pain in the derriere. Even with a fibreglass lid of alloy boxes dust just seems to suck in, a wagon does not seem to suffer as badly.
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