Landcruiser vs Hilux Surf
 

I am planning my Africa overland trip (cape to cairo) for next summer, I have was planning on doing it in a 90's Landcruiser Amazon or Colorado as they seem popular choices.

However when since searching autotrader and classifieds i have noticed than Toyota Hilux Surf's are considerable cheaper. I know the you shouldnt skimp out on the vehicle you plan on driving in, however I am a student and on a tight budget.

Does anyone the comparisons between the two, or any reason against the Hilux surf?

Cheers
Dan

Been looking at the surf as well myself after trouble with my Colorado

What I've established is
Avoid the 2.4 Engine
Gen 3? Surf on shares the same chassis with the Prado/Colorado
Surf selectable 4x4 vs Prado/Colorado Full time 4x4
No Diff Locks
Longer in the back if your looking to sleep inside.

Looking on Autotrader though it appears that theres little difference in price between the Colorado & Surf. Late Gen 3 surfs seem to go for £2.5k - 3.5K but Colorado's start at around £3.5k.

Having got a Colorado at the moment and suffering some issues with it on my Morocco trip, I would definately have another as first choice. But if a very good surf came up at between £2-2.5k then it would be hard to justify the difference in price. On my Morocco trip I didn't need a Diff lock and barely used low range but they are nice to have if the budget stretches to Colorado levels.

Plenty of people have used both for Africa so I guess a lot ultimately comes down to personal choice and budget

Hi Dan

I think The Wardens just about covered it, however, personally I would go for the Colorado (90 series), 80 series or 100 series Amazon, over and above the Surf for me the permanent 4x4 wins the day, but each to their own.
Would re-iterate that the Surf is more than capable, as is a Hilux etc.

Hello Dan

Hilux Surf Third Generation from 1996 onwards is selectable 4WD but also has a center differential and can be driven as a permanent 4WD if required and has a center diff lock, but no rear.

Hilux 3rd Gen also has a smaller fuel tank (70L vs 90L)

I have a friend with a 3rd Generation and it's very much as capable as my Colorado and if you can get one cheaper I would seriously consider the Surf.

IMO I would not be looking at any Surf prior to the 3rd Gen because they are really getting old now, my daily drive is a 1993 Hilux and it is feeling it's age.

I don't know much about them but Mitsubishi Shogun Sport's seem very good value for money, so maybe worth looking into as you're on a tight budget.

Thank for all the feedback! Very informative.

Ok so I'm thinking a 100 series amazon or 3rd gen hilux surf!

I was hoping for a manual gearbox(which doesn't seem possible for the import hilux surfs in the UK) mainly because i have heard they are easier to fix for local mechanics if i get problems. So was wondering if there were any side effects of autos. Despite my inherent desire to drive manual.

Many thanks
Dan

The main downside with autos is you cant tow start . The other thing is in hard work situations (loaded in soft sand ) they generate a lot of heat which is not good for longevity. Thats why autos usually have a overheat warning light , or go into limp mode, when overheating . Re not standard equipment rear diff lock , there are aftermarket options available, which work which is not always the case with high mileage lim slips HTSH.

.
.
Pretty much opposite ends of the spectrum.

4,2 L 100 series or a 3,0 L Surf?

Vette

Failing the above, you could always go for this Chinese copy surf

http://lh3.ggpht.com/-X4zHZX_AQU8/TG...287%252529.jpg

God knows what the quality is like though!

I have a Gen3 Surf, 3L diesel auto, and it's a fantastic car, the best I have ever owned. It's the SSR-X model which has push button selectable 4WD, diff locks and is happy in full time 4WD, but why would you when you can hit the button at any speed under 100kmph? That way you have less steering load, use less fuel and have longer tyre life in 2WD.

Regards the auto v manual debate, I tow heavy loads often, over the mountain passes of the Southern Alps in New Zealand, and I have seen the over-temp light come on twice on very hot days on the same long 12% grade. This is with 2 tonne behind and quite a load aboard. I have an after-market transmission cooler fitted which is a good idea and only cost about UKpounds180 fitted here. Auto is also much better in rough going as it's much easier to control the speed when you are going slow, plus it doesn't spin the wheels as easily in slippery going. You are less likely to get stuck. I'd never have another manual 4WD and I do a lot of really rough roads, river crossings and bush tracks.

My Surf has done 240,000km with zero engine work, zero transmission work, new shocks and springs in the back only, and everything in the car still works.

From 1998 on, they have the inter-cooled motor, which gives a nice improvement in power and fuel economy. Certainly much better fuel economy than you would ever get from a 'Cruiser.

Cheers bloke

Nigel in NZ

I am another one who has been looking at the online reviews of these vehicles, along with a few other manufacturers that are mentioned in other threads.

The summary here of the surf characteristics ties in with my own research but what problems have occurred with the Colorado?
Also, there are a lot of surfs for sale in the UK but not many with lowish mileages for their age; I guess the owners tend to keep them. Many seem to have been used for towing.

Second hand Amazon models are still pretty expensive and they also have a larger - 4.2 litre - diesel engine.

SWB Colorado's are much rarer in the UK second hand market; maybe that maintains their second market a bit??

Having said that and asked those questions I am still a bit confused; what is a Prado?
And what is a 4 Runner?

My avatar says it all. Awesome vehicle.:thumbup1:
Used, abused, rolled over, rammed, converted to gun platforms, shot at, never serviced etc etc by umpteen thousands of freedom fighters and always going strong where others fail.
For Africa and even for extreme journeys like going to tesco's :blushing: perfect!

My problems with the Colorado result from the garage that sold it not the vehicle itself (issues dicussed elsewhere on the site), as a consequence my current one has been rejected under the sale of goods act, hence considering a Surf

LC Prado = LC Colorado outside of the UK
4Runner = Surf in the US and other parts of the world, they were sold here in the UK for a while I believe

Also for misuse on Top Gear - see this - Killing a Toyota part 1 - Top Gear - BBC - YouTube Parts 2 and 3 will follow on

The name Prado, which was never used in the UK, can refer to a range of Toyota Landcruisers.

Some 70 series
90/95 series what we call the Colorado.
120 series the replacement for the Colorado
150 series the new smaller Landcruiser.

anything sold as a Prado in the UK is an import.

The 4 Runner was sold in the UK / based on a Second Gen Surf.

I'm a great fan of the Hilux also Bertrand, having owned mine for 13 years now.

Interesting if you read the surf forums, they seem to suffer from head issues on the 3L, also lots of electrics on the import ones. Advice seems to be do the head, replace the rad and don't overheat them

I was advised that a 4runner would suit me better as less electronics. In the end I bought an Isuzu pickup :funmeteryes:

This bit is confusing to me: second hand surfs, in the UK at least, always seem to be "hilux surfs" in the adverts but later "hilux" are double cabs with pickup bodywork and they are subject to VAT - correct, or am I missing something?

As per the list of surf characteristics in post 2 - "avoid the 2.4 engine" - it is the 2.4L that has the head problems in the reviews that I have read:-
4x4 - Best Reviews of 2010 & 2011 at Review Centre

"Hilux Surf" is the full name, often shortened to simply "Surf". Locally they are affecionately called "Smurfs". :rofl:

The 2.4 does crack heads, although there is a better head from another model avialable. (Not sure which one myself.) The 3.0 head also cracks occasionally but it's usually due to cooling system not being up to the task.

The Japanese radiators in Surfs are not up to Aussie 40+ degree days, especially when towing or when a bullbar that blocks airflow is fitted. The solution here is to fit a local-spec Hilux Turbo Diesel radiator. That solves any further issues on the 3.0 at least.

The Surf was never sold in Aus new either, we got the 4-Runner in 4cyl, V6 or non-turbo diesel form. But we did get Prados sold as such new here.

I can recall driving all the way across Melbourne to look at a 1KZ-TE Prado and being annoyed to find it was a Jap Import with no dual tanks and various other oddities.

Both Surfs and Prados have a huge range of aftermarket bits here. A Surf can be converted to dual tanks relatively easily using a Patrol tank provided the spare wheel is mounted on the rear, not underneath.

If I was doing a journey by myself I'd prefer the Surf for it's more compact size and slightly better economy. I also think they look better and they are far cheaper here. But if with a couple of extra people or I was towing I'd take the Prado/Colorado.

Cheers,
Brett.

Great Feedback!
 

Thanks again everyone for the information on the comparisons.

Although it seems like a LC would be largely the better vehicle for general road driving, probably more comfortable and better maintenance I am very tempted to go for a 1994/5 Hilux Surf (especially with some on this forum noting the benifits of a surf)

I am aware of the advice against these early models due to them being quite old and having problems with the head cracks.

However due to the cheaper price of surfs i am very tempted to look in getting an old model and potential replacing/fixing the head to hopefully avoid cracking problems in africa.

I appreciate any feedback surrounding this idea, or any possible feedback against buying an older model (eg excessive mileage etc)

Many Thanks
Dan

The imported models are a bit more to insure. I have a 4runner sold new in the uk insurance is just over 200 pounds per year. A surf the same year model but imported would have cost over 400 pounds per year to insure. The 2.4lts crack heads the rear springs sag and the rear bumpers rust oh and the radiator falls apart. 30mpg is normal

More than a bit! As you say with your own example the insurance cost can double for a grey-import model compared with exactly the same truck that was officially imported into the UK.

I bought a Prado 95 model LC and my insurer at the time declined to cover this replacement vehicle (they were quite content to insure a "Colorado" which is listed in their acceptable vehicles but not a "Prado"): I ended up having to use a specialist insurance broker and my annual premium doubled instantly, for what amounted to a lesser degree of cover.

I found the same problem years ago when I went looking for a 95 series Prado. A JDM import one was about $5000 cheaper than an Aussie delivered Prado of the same year. The insurance on the JDM was double. Unfortunately the JDM version only has a single fuel tank and does not have proper child restraint points, so that ruled it out for me anyway.