non start kle500a1 part 2
 

well i still have a problem starting the kle . its getting a spark and fuel . i have checked the timing and that seems fine .the valves were a little tight these are now ok . i did however find that the ignition pick up was out of spec . so that was replaced . still a no go . could this be compression ? are there common broblems with kle,s . as was running fine before i used carb cleaner

double check the carbs

seems like you've either put em together wrong or dislodged/loosened some crap that's still there
used to have an import zzr400 that that ran poor despite using 3 cans of off the shelf carb cleaner got em ultrasonic cleaned and the bike was perfect

also check you haven't trapped a fuel/breather hose or a wire when putting the carbs back on
more info would be good as well...are the plugs wet or dry after trying to start and what did you do re the pickup coil?

non start kle
 

plugs are wet . had the carbs apart 3 times now all seems fine . but will check again tommorow. as for the pick up. i replaced that with one in spec .

if the plugs are wet it's either not sparking,sparking at the wrong time or it's getting too much fuel.

put new plugs in, make sure the choke is not sticking, the air filter is clean, recheck the float heights and double check the gap between the pick up coil and the rotor

did once have a bike that ran like a bag o shite everything else checked out ok but noticed the tag holding the pick up coil had been bent...closed the gap up to about 1mm and all was good

just trying to eliminate things as you said it was running fine before.

its an A1 yep?...if so are you sure it hasn't had an engine change to a 500s motor?...i seem to recall the pickups were different from the kle...might just be the grey matter breaking down tho doh

non start kle500a1
 

yep its an a1 500cc . checked the carbs again last night . all look ok float levels etc . i didnt think the pick up coil was adjustable on these as theres no adjustment on the 2 bolts , air filter all clean . new fuel and new plugs . i am rearly stumped on this one . i have worked on my own bikes ( fzr zxr rdlc xl dt ) for 20+ years and never come across somthing like this . i may even try to get a second hand engine to try . as i need to get this back on the road asap

Ok, I'm no mechanic and I'm jumping into the middle of the thread I know but I feel that I'm missing half the story. It seems like you have thoroughly checked the carbs and spark plugs but starting from the begining, if you will, what else have you done (failing that was there a previous thread that you explained all this and I've just missed it :confused1:).

As with the usual 'bike doesn't start' issues, dunno if it will help but...

Check the following:
1. Battery has juice
2. Starter turns over
3. Spark plug actually sparks (pull it out but still connected, put it next to a piece of metal - turn over the bike and look for the spark)
4. Fuel - not flooded or dry - ensure no air bubbles in fuel line
5. Air - air flow/intake is clear

Failing that very basic checklist that I'm sure you've already done. What did you do to the engine? Can you turn the engine over manually by forcing the cam-shaft to spin, some bikes can do this with rear-wheel in gear and turn the wheel, if not then another way perhaps?? :rolleyes2:

Again, apologies if you've already gone through all this, just not quite sure of the full story.

kle500a1 non start part 2
 

well this is what happened

1. had a sticking choke . freed this up with wd40
2. used some carb cleaner as well on the carb body and bell mouths . coughed and spluttered but cleared after a few seconds
3. stopped the engine . cleaned inside carbs with carb cleaner
4. now wont start . it has back fired a few times but now nothing not even trying
5. taken carbs off and cleaned and blown out . new spark plugs . checked timing all ok and float levels . good spark . turns over well .

since this i have changed the pick up coil this was out of spec . i have also checked all the wiring . (found 2 corodded wire going to fuse box ) now rectified . have cleaned and checked carbs 3 times now . all ok . i have a very good spark with plug out of the engine turns over ok battery fully charged . and plugs are wet when removed . the valves when checked were a little tight now sorted though . next plan of action is maybe compression test . see if i have a burn valve or ring gone (its done 57000mls) failing that maybe a gpz500 engine or replacement kle500 engine

Maybe you could try some extra "hot" plugs like irridium or something. These might help blow out extra fuel in the cyclinders.

But given that the KLE is back firing you might indeed have a problem with a bad valve or piston rings.

Sorry I can't be more help.

Is the pilot screw set correctly? Is the choke adjusted properly? (cable)

right....don't bother looking for burnt valves or doing a compression check..you won't find the problem there.

i can almost gaurantee it'll be carb related..was running...took carbs apart...now not running...see where i'm going?

have you totally dissasembled the carbs and held each and every jet up to light to check they're clear?..if not do so...just blowing air through is not enough.

i suspect it'll be the pilot air jets blocked...and yes they are a bastard to clear.

make sure all carbs settings are as per the book..mixture screw,needle clip etc and the butterflys open together

years ago i had a mint rd250lc i bought cheap as it was hard to start...really hard as in 20 kicks might get it started ..went through all i could think of to try and sort it..gave up and sold it on...turns out the chokes were assembled wrongly..doh

where abouts are you in the uk?..maybe someone is close on the board who can help

EDIT: just thought..have you checked that one of the floats doesn't have a puncture?

non start kle500a1
 

well i have the carbs apart again . all jets look clear . no crap in float bowl . levels ok . still have good spark and plugs wet . it does thump thump as its turning over as though its trying but theres no vapours coming out the exhaust . i have even tryed easy start again with the carbs on and off the bike . still nothing :taz:

lets get this right...you've tried easy start with the carbs off and just sprayed direct into the inlet port and it still ain't started? :eek3:

kle500a1 non start
 

yep that right . direct into the cylinder head intakes . this is why i think it may be compression or a valve . as i still have a good spark and the timing seems fine

try swapping the plug leads round.

putting the wrong leads on the wrong plugs is easy...done it myself a few times :innocent:

i realise why you're thinking valves/compression but it was running before you took the carbs off,and you haven't had the cam out and had to set the valve timing it's unlikely...hell even if one cylinder had bent valves it would still run on the other.

kle500 non start
 

plug leads are 2 short to swop over . so can b that .

what about putting the original pick up coil back on ?
just wondering if somehow its sparking ok but on the wrong stroke

non start kle500a1
 

i could try this but not convinced its this as the one taken off was out of spec . i going to go over eveything this weekend . failing that i am taking the head and barrels off to check in side etc

ok dude
let us know how you get on :thumbup1:

non start kle500a1
 

well i give up . just checked had a spark and went to try to start it . and the starter relay stopped working .my lucks not 2 good at the moment with this bike

Take a break from the bike from a while, come back to it fresh and maybe you'll see the problem having a little distance from the bike. One can only hope.:thumbup1:

So have you done a compression check yet ??

You said it had a spark but was it a good one ??

If it won't run even with "powerstart" into the inlets then it's got to be ignition or compression.

non start kle500a1
 

well the spark was not 2 bad . not a nice blue spark if you like it was more of an orange colour . i convinced this is ignition related not comppresion or timing . still got to get a relay now .

I just read the first post..

"it was running fine until I used carb cleaner"

So it was fine until you removed the carbs and replaced them ??

If you're sure the carbs are fine and I mean REALLY REALLY sure , then maybe you dislodged a connector or pulled a wire out..

It won't be compression or timing if it was fine before you stripped the carb..

You didn't answer if you have tried spraying carb cleaner into the throttle boddies of the carb or into the airbox while turning the engine.

if the spark is more yellow than blue i'd suspect ignition components.
have you tried putting the original pick up coil on ?
reason i'm asking is i know you said you bought a new one but there's a slim chance thats knackered out the box.

Something else to check.

The main power for the loom is routed through the connector block on the solenoid. The main fuse is also located here. The wires in this connector block are prone to corrosion, especially where the big white wire attaches to the fuse itself. If you pull the red connector off, any corrosion should be obvious.

You can also pull any connector blocks apart to check for signs of corrosion and inspect the loom for any worn spots where there could be an intermittant short. You can easily test the coils with a multimeter (and check their connectors too). Check the plugs while you have the tank off.

Early GPZs had a problem where the magnets for the alternator became detached from the casing due to dodgy glue and effectively trash the rotor. I don't know if they used the same glue on the KLE.

non start kle500a1
 

i tryed spraying easy start straight into the intakes this didnt work . i have also tryed a second set of carbs that i have this was also no good . i have had the loom apart this all looks ok apart from 2 wires connected to the fuse box these had corroded right through . . unfortunately i am going to have to wait till the end of next week to get a relay to try it again . the coils are also well within spec . but i may even replace these with new as well . think the bike could do with an overhall anyway . thinking back i did spray the connectors under the tank at the front with wd40 so it could be something to do with this . will be going over the wire again tomorrow if i get time

non start kle500a1
 

well i now have all the wiring stripped . found that the white wire that goes to the start solinoid is corroded and hanging by a thread where it joins 2 in to one . so i will be replacing the complete wire for this on friday (hope this is it ) and checking all the other junctions . makes me think that the coils etc wernt getting enough juice for a good spark

any joy?
had me fingers crossed :thumbup1:

non start kle500a1
 

nope no joy . looks like its an engine out job . or replacement might just strip it and do it up for next year . still think its some thing stupid that making it not run . still i got 3 days and i am back on my zxr750 . cant wait :scooter:

No Go1
 

Change the supressor cap or, try an old trick, connect the HT lead directly to the top of the plug (a bodge but see if it works just to eliminate the cap).
Dave.

non start kle500a1
 

nope just tryed that still nothing

non start kle500a1
 

well think i have got to the bottom of the problem . compressions . 50psi in one pot and 70psi in the other manual is saying it should be beetween 139psi and 213psi . but just 2 b sure i am going to recheck the valves clearances tonight . but i think its an engine out jop anyway . just need to sorce an engine or head barrels and pistons and valves i think

Put a few drops of engine oil in the pots then check again...

If the compression goes up, the problem is the rings/cylinder/head gasket

If it doesn't increase, its likely to be the valves.

Also, not wanting to patronise in any way but loads of people get compression readings wrong. They should be done with a WARM engine with the throttle WIDE open..

Also, if you have a £15 compression tester bought out of a magazine, bin it ! They're GROSSLY inaccurate, especially if they are the plug in type. You need a screw in !

The only way I can trust them is if I compare the readings with another bike that I know is healthy.

Ted

non start kle500a1
 

ok i now know why theres no compression . one ring is broken and 2 others are stuck in the groove on the piston . i have never come across this before . must have been the carb cleaner that did it . the rings did have a fair bit of carbon inside the lip on the top edge so it was brob on its way out anyway . right so all i need now is pistons rings top and bottom gaskets and should be back on the road

Yup... That will do it...

At least you know now.. You must of been going nuts !

Before you just throw it back together........ The bore is quite likely to be damaged if you've had broken rings..You're probably better off getting a second hand barrel off eBay or at least measuring it all up properly..

If nothing else, get the old barrel honed out and see if you need oversize rings..

Measure it all up properly,

Ted

non start kle500a1
 

yep theres one good set on ebay for a gpz500 thats only done 17k hopefully this should b ok

non start kle500a1 (update )
 

well it now gone bad . managed to get a gpz500 engine .engine was in and all wired up . wouldnt start . no oil pressure . batterys a bit low hoping its that . found out i needed to change the rotor from the kle500 to the gpz engine . this is were it went wrong . i busted one of the magnets on the rotor so i now have 2 engines that i cant use till i get a rotor . and it looks like there only one for the kle500. so if any one can help . i need to know what size puller i need to get the flywheel off . and would the rotor/pick up affect the oil pressure light (have changed the pressure switch for a good one ) :(

The cams are also different on the GPZ... Many people swap the cams anyway. gives it more uuuuumph !!

non start kle500a1 (update)
 

yep i am keeping the cams from the gpz . i think the gearing not the same a the kle . so may have to go smaller on the front sprocket . its just the rotor that got me in a pickle now and the lack of oil pressure . i have now tryed a good pressure switch and its still showing no pressure . i am due to get some more barrels pistons and cams in the post next few days so i will hopefully at the end of all this have 2 good engines . but still stuck without the rotor